Heroes season 3 discussion (previously Heroes/ X-3 comparison thread) by chrisisall

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Heroes season 3 discussion (previously Heroes/ X-3 comparison thread)

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Friday, October 10, 2008 12:09
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VIEWED: 3514
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Tuesday, September 23, 2008 8:01 AM

Okay, super powers all around. Peeps griped at Heroes 2nd season being inferior to the first (I agree, but I still liked it), but I also remembering peeps griping at X-Men 3 as well.
So, which was better?
And more importantly, who's giving Heroes season 3 a a definite chance (I'm lookin' at you, Finn

)?

I'm hoping for greatness this season, myself!

Sylerisall

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Tuesday, September 23, 2008 8:09 AM

SINGATE

I liked X3 better which isn't saying much. My main gripe with the movie was it's utter disregard for the source material. On the other side season 2 was erratic. Half the stories I didn't care about and the other half were just good enough to keep my attention. I don't own either on DVD and probably never will. At least if I have to sit through X3 again it would be done in under 2 hours.

Season 3 is looking good after the premeire. I won't go into details because I just posted spoilers in your other thread. I used tags off course.

_________________________________________________

We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Tuesday, September 23, 2008 8:15 AM

MSB

Since I've only seen the premier I don't want to rush to judgement... but I really liked the blurring of the lines between hero and villian

____________________________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength; loving someone deeply gives you courage."
Life is anything that dies when you stomp on it.”-Dave Barry

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Tuesday, September 23, 2008 8:32 AM

PDCHARLES

What happened? He see your face?

After my intial harsh-ish review of X3, I have come around. (after it came on HBO a gazillion times). Much better viewing after removing my ruby quartz glasses.

However, I'd give it to Heroes just because it is original (meaning the story itself, not the powers, concepts, etc.) AND gave me more surprises. I already had the multiple scenarios and plots worked in my head due to the total X-men dilution of which I was immersed in the 80s/90s.

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Tuesday, September 23, 2008 8:39 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by singate:

Season 3 is looking good after the premeire. I won't go into details because I just posted spoilers in your other thread. I used tags off course.

Thanks. I won't get to Heroes premier until tomorrow night- too much work & school.

I am an island unto myself in that I really liked HS2, and I freaked over X3.
I guess I'm not hard to please.
Except with Stargate Atlantis- I felt it had no direction, and the new BSG also, to a lesser degree though.

Chrisisall

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Tuesday, September 23, 2008 8:41 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by pdcharles:
After my intial harsh-ish review of X3, I have come around.

I find I am connected to other land after all

Chrisisall

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Tuesday, September 23, 2008 8:45 AM

ZEROKIRYU

Quote:
Originally posted by MSB:
but I really liked the blurring of the lines between hero and villian

^^^This.

So far, I'm liking it a lot more than the second season. But I know of one person so far who believes that they have now ruined Heroes.

_________________________________________________
Tomo: Oh yeah? So what place did you come in?
Kagura: I came in this! *Holds up five fingers*
Osaka: Flat?

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Wednesday, September 24, 2008 12:59 PM

EVILDINOSAUR

I think I'm one of the few that actually liked heroes season 2, my level of dissapointment was really minimal if there was any dissapointment at all.

I think the biggest problem with season 2 is the writer's strike screwed up the way it was meant to go, it was supposed to take us from volume 1 to volume 3 and wasn't really meant to be a stand-alone season. that's how i viewed it anyway.

As for X3....yea, the 2 don't even compare. X3 was terrible, truly terrible.

And so far season 3 is amazing, I'm loving it, so many questions :)

"Haha, mine is an evil laugh."

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Wednesday, September 24, 2008 2:37 PM

REGINAROADIE

Yes.

I too didn't have a problem with HEROES Volume 2 as much as everyone else apparently did. I'll admit they may have had an iffy first half, but the second half really kicked it into high gear so as to not be a complete waste.

I find it amazing that everyone is willing to write HEROES off as a lost cause after that, but they're willing to stick with LOST for the year and a half it spent up it's own ass, as well as the majority of season 3 of BATTLESTAR GALACTICA which had more filler than a hot dog.

But as for X3, that is a prime example of a part 3 that fucks everything up. Single handedly destroyed everything that Singer took two movies to set up. And it actually reminded me of HEROES as well. I know a lot of fans complained that the climactic battle in the season finale was underwhelming, but I actually preferred the way they went with it. If you wanted to see a super powered slug-fest, then rent X-MEN: THE LAST STAND. But HEROES made the right choice in going more for the emotional impact of the Petrelli's sacrificing themselves. They did the IRON GIANT ending.

So yes, I would rather go through all of Volume 2 of HEROES than watch one minute of X-MEN: THE LAST STAND

**************************************************
"And it starts with a sentence that might last a lifetime, or it all might just go down in flames. If I let you know me, then why would you want me? Each day I don't is a shame. Each day I don't is a great shame."

Loudon Wainwright III - "Strange Weirdos" off the "Knocked Up" soundtrack

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Wednesday, September 24, 2008 2:44 PM

ZEROKIRYU

Quote:
Originally posted by reginaroadie:
But as for X3, that is a prime example of a part 3 that fucks everything up.

No, the prime example would be Spiderman 3.

_________________________________________________
Tomo: Oh yeah? So what place did you come in?
Kagura: I came in this! *Holds up five fingers*
Osaka: Flat?

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Wednesday, September 24, 2008 2:48 PM

REGINAROADIE

Even tie. SPIDERMAN 3 had good parts to it. It just didn't congeal together into a satisfying whole. I'm almost dreading the parts 4 and 5 in the works.

**************************************************
"And it starts with a sentence that might last a lifetime, or it all might just go down in flames. If I let you know me, then why would you want me? Each day I don't is a shame. Each day I don't is a great shame."

Loudon Wainwright III - "Strange Weirdos" off the "Knocked Up" soundtrack

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Wednesday, September 24, 2008 2:54 PM

ZEROKIRYU

Quote:
Originally posted by reginaroadie:
Even tie. SPIDERMAN 3 had good parts to it.

Dancing emo-Peter disagrees with you.

I also fear for the Venom stand alone movie.

_________________________________________________
Tomo: Oh yeah? So what place did you come in?
Kagura: I came in this! *Holds up five fingers*
Osaka: Flat?

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Wednesday, September 24, 2008 2:56 PM

DEWRASTLER

I will to this day argue that within Spider-man 3 and X3 there are good movies. With some editing (and by editing I mean the removing of parts. I'm looking at you Flint Marko as you shoot a certain uncle, or you Rogue as you give up your powers) you could find good, short movies. Not great, but better than they are.

As for Heroes season 2, I think it gets too much of a bad rap b/c season 1 was so new and exciting to everyone. It was built up so much that it was too hard for season 2 to meet our expectations, even though the writers tried to please everyone which lead to too many plot lines. So, after being disappointed in season 2 we are all going in to season 3 expecting less, and we'll be pleasantly surprised.

________________________________
People who don't care about anything will never understand the people who do

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Wednesday, September 24, 2008 3:02 PM

REGINAROADIE

Actually, I didn't mind Rogue giving up her powers. My big beef was a rushed tone that said "screw character and story, let's get to the next action sequence", the mutants as minority group metaphor being blunt, as opposed to subtle, and the two major plotlines (the mutant cure and The Dark Phoenix) that deserved to be two separate films. As well as characters acting completely different and being killed off arbitrarily (like Cyclops).

**************************************************
"And it starts with a sentence that might last a lifetime, or it all might just go down in flames. If I let you know me, then why would you want me? Each day I don't is a shame. Each day I don't is a great shame."

Loudon Wainwright III - "Strange Weirdos" off the "Knocked Up" soundtrack
A

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Thursday, September 25, 2008 3:43 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Okay, super powers all around. Peeps griped at Heroes 2nd season being inferior to the first (I agree, but I still liked it), but I also remembering peeps griping at X-Men 3 as well.
So, which was better?
And more importantly, who's giving Heroes season 3 a a definite chance (I'm lookin' at you, Finn)?

Yes, it is true. I’m skeptical. It’s funny that you picked up on that. But this sort of strikes me as the season where Willow went bad. I don’t like it when the good guys go bad – that’s just a little too close to the real world for me. I like my fantasy to be fantasy.

I hate Lost. I’ve hated it from the beginning. Now I really liked Heroes S1 and S2, but S2 was way too short. You need to have more then a half a season of development before your heroes start going all bonkers on you. The second thing is that, this new development seems to me to be a little like the soap opera dream sequences. Are we going to get up one Monday with Claire getting out of the shower to inform us that it was all just a dream because someone went back in time to conveniently fix everything?

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Thursday, September 25, 2008 3:45 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Dewrastler:
I will to this day argue that within Spider-man 3 and X3 there are good movies.

Yep.

Quote:

As for Heroes season 2, I think it gets too much of a bad rap b/c season 1 was so new and exciting to everyone. It was built up so much that it was too hard for season 2 to meet our expectations, even though the writers tried to please everyone which lead to too many plot lines.

Yep.

Quote:
So, after being disappointed in season 2 we are all going in to season 3 expecting less, and we'll be pleasantly surprised.

Nope.

I just watched the season 3 premiers last night....it it a tearful Chrisisall that types that as far as I'm concerned, Kring has sold out to the action genre to generate ratings, IMO.

Where were Mohinder's metaphysical ponderings that used to frame the shows?

Why up the WTF factor in favour of character?

Season 2 looked like gold compared to this.

Sadly, I give up on this series as of now...if it returns to telling stories about PEOPLE, please let me know and I might buy the season on DVD in the future.

Dejected Chrisisall

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Thursday, September 25, 2008 3:47 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
I like my fantasy to be fantasy.

Yep. Me too.

Chrisisall

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Thursday, September 25, 2008 2:49 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

I haven't seen X3 yet so can't make the comparison.

As for Heroes, I share Chris' disappointment with the Season 3 premiere. I will continue to watch for a while to see if there is improvement, or at least a method to the madness.

Season 2 was less of a disappointment for what they were not able to do with the shortened season than it was a frustration that they did not take the opportunity to clean house a bit. Every one of the characters that should have logically died in the Season 1 finale survived, and it seems they are going to continue that trend. Even if Nikki died in the fire at the end of last year the actress is still on the show, but now as a new character? WTF? And Linderman, when last seen had D. L.'s fist smashing through the back of his skull, returns as a figment of Nathan's imagination. All of this just reeks of them not having the guts to eliminate major characters. Joss and Tim need to take over to show them how it is done.

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Thursday, September 25, 2008 3:52 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
Every one of the characters that should have logically died in the Season 1 finale survived

One of the great moments in season 1 was when Nathan grabbed Peter & did the up up and away- it was a moment of heroic sacrifice & love for his brother as well as mankind. That they didn't actually die (as per season 2) didn't take that away for me, as they had no way of knowing that they WOULD live through it...but now, everyone's surviving everything...!!! And getting extra powers!!! (Somebody on the NBC site said that Maya now even has the power of the English language, LOL). And Claire not feeling pain was a FLIMSY excuse to have her have a twisted conversation w/Sylar as he absorbed powers from her exposed brain, lame, man.

Chrisisall

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Thursday, September 25, 2008 8:18 PM

OPPYH

Problem with X3, and Spidey 3 is that the screenplays of both were complete, and utter shit. It's nearly impossible to make a coherent movie from a non stop changing script. I can cope with X3 for the bang, and pizazz action stuff, but that's all it accomplished. Big budget, big effects, and a story that my comic book reading friend could best 100 times over.
I will never discuss Spiderman 3, because it's such a mind numbingingly stupid film on every level, that even the action sequences couldn't save it.
My opinion of course....no offense to those who thought those films were good.

Heroes 2nd season without a doubt.

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Friday, September 26, 2008 3:13 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by OPPYH:

I will never discuss Spiderman 3, because it's such a mind numbingingly stupid film on every level, that even the action sequences couldn't save it.

It's surprisingly better on the fifth viewing...

Goblinisall

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Friday, September 26, 2008 3:42 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

I could see myself, the first season, growing board with Peter, because by the end of the first season he was already god. Now Sylar has become god. What do you when two characters are god? About the only thing you can do with them is have then exchange roles – the good one become bad, the bad one become good. But this really isn’t going to work, because it puts you right back where you were with two characters who essentially can solve any problem no matter how difficult. But with the except that you don’t care for the good guy because we was the bad guy and you no longer care for the bad guy because he betrayed the good side. The story starts to evolve beyond any allegory to the human condition, and loses any sympathy with the audience.

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Friday, September 26, 2008 3:56 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
The story starts to evolve beyond any allegory to the human condition, and loses any sympathy with the audience.

I've decided to continue to watch the show, in the hopes that this likely scenario you paint, by chance, doesn't occur....

Grrrr...it sucks to be a fan sometimes

Fingers crossedisall

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Friday, September 26, 2008 7:16 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
The story starts to evolve beyond any allegory to the human condition, and loses any sympathy with the audience.

I've decided to continue to watch the show, in the hopes that this likely scenario you paint, by chance, doesn't occur....

Grrrr...it sucks to be a fan sometimes

I agree. I will continue watching it. I hope the writers are more creative then they appear so far this season. But I have Monday night activities planned through the next couple of months. So I'll have to record Heroes - and I don't know how long I'll go through the trouble of doing that. So we'll see. I will be happy, if at the end of this season I can apologize for being so wrong about this show.

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Friday, September 26, 2008 8:31 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
I will be happy, if at the end of this season I can apologize for being so wrong about this show.

I'm hoping that somewhere Kring will see the mistake in his correction of the storytelling from season 2 (insert smartass emoticon), and write for the characters again, and not merely the ratings.

Chrisisall

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Friday, September 26, 2008 6:49 PM

OPPYH

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
It's surprisingly better on the fifth viewing...

Four viewings too many

"Son of Jor-El...Kneel before Zod!"

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Thursday, October 2, 2008 3:36 AM

CHRISISALL

Monday's ep had it's moments- and I liked the HRG/Sylar pairing- I'm back on board, but just for the weirdness, I don't expect we'll see storytellin' like in season one again, but it still might be fun, in a pulp-y sort of way.

Resigned Chrisisall

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Monday, October 6, 2008 9:46 PM

SINGATE

I wasn't thrilled with last week's episode for 2 big reasons:

Select to view spoiler:

1. Sylar is now Nathan and Peter's long lost brother.

2. Tracy is Niki's identical twin/clone whatever and they were experiments seperated at birth.

These 2 plot devices are so cheesy and soap operaish it's almost laughable.

However, last night's episode was sterling in my book.

Select to view spoiler:

The Sylar/Peter relationship had a bigger payoff than I expected. First, because in the future Peter had to go to him for help. Second, because after he obtained Sylar's ability it did exactly what Sylar warned him about. Now, in the present we will hopefully get to see their relationship evolve.

How about Sylar going nuclear over that kid. I'm still trying to figure out if it was actually his biological son or if Gabriel took him in out of guilt. For just a second I thought somehow Claire was with him...how the hell is Mr. Muggles his pet?

Speaking of Claire she grew up pretty quickly. Is her new personality simply a result Sylar's action? I want to know what Peter did to deserve such enmity. It wasn't enough that she killed his future self, she then tortures him for no other reason than her own pleasure.

I've seen several complaints from people crying about the lack of further character development in the new season. After 2 years we should know most of these people pretty well. What I am enjoying this season is having put into foreign territory and watching their adaptations. Other than the 2 points I listed there hasn't been any cause to complain about this season yet.

_________________________________________________

We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Thursday, October 9, 2008 8:16 AM

CHRISISALL

This show is SO all over the place, I can't figure out if I even like that or not, but it certainly has my attention. Plus, Zack is being put to good use.

Heroisall

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Thursday, October 9, 2008 12:43 PM

CORNCOBB

X-men 3 was a really good film, and I say that with total knowledge of just how dumb that will sound to some people. Despite it seemingly shalow glossy aesthetic (and some undeniable flaws eg vinnie jones) i felt it actually had a lot more depth than the first two films. It was more true to the charcters (and didnt take as many liberties with the plot as many believe) had more emotional drama and explored the themes of the x-men stories in ways that the first two films only teased us with. The first two films, like Heroes were very good at giving the impression of being weighty and important, but scratch the surface and theres very little there.

As for Heroes, i can't really comment on Season 3 because I quit after season 1. I find Heroes to be pretentious, slow, preposterous, convoluted, derivative, repetitive nonsense. It showed potential in its early episodes, but completely failed to live up to it. It promised to take these ideas and do something new and interesting with them, but never did. It desperately wants to be Watchmen for TV but it doesnt even come close. If the creators accepted that its actually just silly light entertainment and presented it as such it could be watchable. But at the moment its like Battlefield Earth trying to be The Godfather

"Gorramit Mal... I've forgotten my line."

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Friday, October 10, 2008 10:53 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Corncobb:
X-men 3 was a really good film

I agree- I'd even buy an extended edition if it came out.

Xisall

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Friday, October 10, 2008 12:09 PM

CORNCOBB

Likewise. In fact I hope there is one someday.
Btw, apologies to any heroes fans I annoyed with the above post. Just realised I came very close to trolling. At first glance this looked like a kinda anti-Heroes thread and I thought: Yay! Nows my chance to vent!
My bad

"Gorramit Mal... I've forgotten my line."

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