Favourite TV/movie/toon take on the Man Of Steel? by chrisisall

Personally, my favourites were #'s 4 & 6. Reeve was the best Superman & Hatcher was the best Lois.
(Cain was a very good Supes, as well, IMO)
However, both versions got worse as the went...

Opinions?

The Kryptonian Chrisisall

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Saturday, January 30, 2010 6:15 PM

Is there no one here to even respond to me???

The Zod-ian Chrisisall

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Saturday, January 30, 2010 6:57 PM

I gotta go with no. 7. I'm a big fan of the whole Timm/Dini DC universe.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Saturday, January 30, 2010 7:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
I gotta go with no. 7. I'm a big fan of the whole Timm/Dini DC universe.

Yeah, but apart from the three part Batman crossover (AKA The Batman/Superman Movie) & Superman: Doomsday, I felt like they never had enough time to develop a proper story...

The laughing Chrisisall

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Saturday, January 30, 2010 7:24 PM

ROCKETJOCK

My all-time favorites are the 1940's Fleischer Studios cartoons, which are not only artistically superior -- I once used them to prove to an Anime snob that not all American animation sucks -- but also forged large parts of the legend in their own right. Just one example: The classic phone booth costume change originated in the second cartoon, "The Mechanical Monsters" in 1941, a good seven years before the first occurrence in the comics.

I'll also confess to a sentimental attachment to the 1950's series, mostly because of George Reeves marvelously dry performance.

And I give special credit to the late, great Christopher Reeves for showing us all exactly how Kal-El managed to fool the world with nothing more than a cheap business suit and a pair of horn rims. That moment in Superman II where the masquerade finally crumbles -- Clark Kent turns his back on Lois, takes his glasses off, grows a good four inches in height and gains twenty-plus pounds of muscle weight before he turns around -- all through body language! Magnificent!

I'm not a huge fan of Smallville's treatment of the Big Red "S", but I'll give them bonus points for managing to make Green Arrow a genuine badass.

One incarnation I notice you missed was Kirk Alyn's performance in the two 1940's movie serials. He wasn't any great shakes as an actor, but there's something about the way he would wade into a hail of bullets with a shit-eating grin on his face that has always delighted me. He made invulnerability look fun!

"This is an Imaginary Story... Aren't they all?" -- Alan Moore

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Saturday, January 30, 2010 7:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
I gotta go with no. 7. I'm a big fan of the whole Timm/Dini DC universe.

Yeah, but apart from the three part Batman crossover (AKA The Batman/Superman Movie) & Superman: Doomsday, I felt like they never had enough time to develop a proper story...

The laughing Chrisisall

The Superman:Doomsday movie wasn't part of that continuity, actually (though it did have many of the same producers).

They did get into deeper Supes-related stories in Justice League, though.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Saturday, January 30, 2010 7:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RocketJock:

One incarnation I notice you missed was Kirk Alyn's performance in the two 1940's movie serials.

OH YES!!! Forgive me!!!!
#2.5

The neglectful Chrisisall

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Saturday, January 30, 2010 7:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:

They did get into deeper Supes-related stories in Justice League, though.

Haven't seen many of those because I felt too many characters dilute the 26 minute pond. Was I in error?

The laughing Chrisisall

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Saturday, January 30, 2010 7:51 PM

It's certainly an ensebmble rather than focuse on any one person. But they do several multi-episode arcs, one even that lasts half the season which focuses heavily on Supes, as it involves the Luthor-as-President storyline.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Saturday, January 30, 2010 7:51 PM

ROCKETJOCK

If nothing else, you need to see the Justice League Unlimited Episode based on Alan Moore's "For The Man Who Has Everything", a very Superman-Centric episode that examines the Superman Mythos from a very unusual angle.

Special mention also for Supe's last appearance in the DCAU, in JLU's final episode, where he delivers his famous "World of Cardboard" speech, in which he which he thanks Darkseid for driving him to the edge -- because it means, just this once, he doesn't have to hold back. He then proceeds to beat the snail-snot out a living god! (Until the bastard cheats, anyway.) Defining moment for the animated incarnation, very superior storytelling.

"Burn." -- A very pissed off Superman to Mongul in For The Man Who Has Everything

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Saturday, January 30, 2010 7:54 PM

Also, more than half of our Big Damned Heroes do voices on JLU (as does John Crighton).

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Saturday, January 30, 2010 7:57 PM

Whoah- maybe I have to see that!

The limited Chrisisall

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Saturday, January 30, 2010 9:58 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Gotta go with Chris Reeves here, he defined the character for me, to be blunt - although now you got me interested in checkin up on some of the 40's stuff.

Adam West kinda did that for me with Batman - but that was a different thing, there was Adam West Batman, and then there was dark, gloomy, angsty-emo batman...

-F

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Saturday, January 30, 2010 10:12 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:

Is there no one here to even respond to me???

The Zod-ian Chrisisall

No Terrenceisall. You postulated that the coke addict Reeve was your utmost representation of the Man of Steel. Where can logic progress from that dead end?

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Sunday, January 31, 2010 3:56 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
No Terrenceisall. You postulated that the coke addict Reeve was your utmost representation of the Man of Steel. Where can logic progress from that dead end?

I think your confusing TV Superman George Reeves with movie Superman Christopher Reeve. The latter is the one Chris cited as his favorite.

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Sunday, January 31, 2010 4:25 AM

CYBERSNARK

I'm a Post-Crisis fan, so there's never really been a non-comic Superman story that really gets it "right."

The Diniverse does come close, though, and Superman did actually have his own series before Justice League kicked off. It aired briefly between B:tas and JL (the Diniverse goes: Batman -> Superman -> Justice League -> Justice League Unlimited -> Batman Beyond -> The Zeta Project)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman:_The_Animated_Series

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Sunday, January 31, 2010 4:29 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Are we going purely on film, TV, and cartoon versions? If not, my favorite take is Larry Niven's essay "Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex", in which he lays out the science of why Clark and Lois were never going to work out (short version: he'd kill her if they tried to have sex). It was hilarious, and it was accurate.

As far as film and TV, Chris Reeve is it.

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Sunday, January 31, 2010 4:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:

I think your confusing TV Superman George Reeves with movie Superman Christopher Reeve. The latter is the one Chris cited as his favorite.

I met Chris Reeve after a performance of Fifth Of July on Broadway- in the movies he was impressively handsome & a striking physical presence, but in real life...
he was the same.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Sunday, January 31, 2010 8:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:

I met Chris Reeve after a performance of Fifth Of July on Broadway- in the movies he was impressively handsome & a striking physical presence, but in real life...
he was the same.

HAHA! Nice.

Chris Reeve IS Superman. No other actor can match up. Is Superman 2 better than the first movie? You betcha.

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Sunday, January 31, 2010 12:42 PM

LWAVES

I can't say that I know the cartoons at all having only watched Superman: Doomsday but Chris Reeve will always be Superman to me. He was just so right for the role.
Brandon Routh did a great job (especially as Clark) but the rest of the movie let him down.

The Cain/Hatcher version should be erased from existence. Too many things wrong/changed with it and I'm not usually the biggest continuity nit-picker between versions but they went too far.

I was gonna mention Smallville as well but I guess he hasn't actually been Superman yet so I guess it doesn't count.

"I don't believe in suicide, but if you'd like to try it it might cheer me up to watch."

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Sunday, January 31, 2010 2:37 PM

Definitely Reeves (the first two movies at least) is the best of the best. Those movies are amazing, even today, with the slightly dodgy sfx.

But then I also have a soft spot for Superman Returns. I liked it, so sue me, it felt like a great continuation on, rather than trying to reboot the franchise and replace the original Chris Reeves films, which would've been blasphemy. Routh was definitely the best they could've got for the role, (and is now on Chuck!!) and I liked Spacey's Luthor.

Adventures of Lois and Clark, I have a soft spot for, just because I grew up watching it a bit. It might not be the best, but it entertained me.

And I currently really enjoy Smallville. Sure, it has it's problems, but after having recently caught up on seasons 8 and 9, I can safely say that the new showrunners are definitely taking it in fantastic new directions, and I can only imagine it'll get better from here.

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Sunday, January 31, 2010 2:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BigRichard:

Adventures of Lois and Clark, I have a soft spot for, just because I grew up watching it a bit. It might not be the best, but it entertained me.

I loved Hatcher's Lois, and Dean Cain's Clark was awesome. I own the first two excellent seasons, and my family grooves to them.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Sunday, January 31, 2010 5:21 PM

not sure I loved Hatcher as much, but Dean Cain was a pretty good Clark.
Haven't seen it in ages though, might have to buy some on DVD. Are the first two seasons the only good ones?

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Monday, February 1, 2010 1:31 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
No Terrenceisall. You postulated that the coke addict Reeve was your utmost representation of the Man of Steel. Where can logic progress from that dead end?

I think your confusing TV Superman George Reeves with movie Superman Christopher Reeve. The latter is the one Chris cited as his favorite.

I was referring to coke addict Christopher Reeve. I didn't remember which problem George had. I had thought Chris was referring to Christopher, with conflict ensuing.

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Monday, February 1, 2010 3:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BigRichard:
Are the first two seasons the only good ones?

Yeah IMO. It nosedived drastically from there.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, February 1, 2010 3:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:

I was referring to coke addict Christopher Reeve.

Your meds need adjusting, look to it.

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Monday, February 1, 2010 9:39 AM

Someone stole his coke stash, and he feels blaming a dead man (with no record of drug use) will somehow bring it back?

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, February 1, 2010 9:45 AM

JONGSSTRAW

Favorite Supes:

1) The Adventures Of Superman TV Series
2) The Max Fleischer Cartoon Series
3) The Superman movies with Christopher Reeve
4) The Superboy Cartoon Series
5) Superman, as part of Superfriends Cartoon Series

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Monday, February 1, 2010 10:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Someone stole his coke stash, and he feels blaming a dead man (with no record of drug use) will somehow bring it back?

Go figure.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, February 1, 2010 10:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
The Adventures Of Superman TV Series

I liked the I Love Lucy appearance!

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, February 1, 2010 10:52 AM

JONGSSTRAW

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
The Adventures Of Superman TV Series
I liked the I Love Lucy appearance!

Great one! Almost as good as when Superman steals John Wayne's cement handprints from Graumann's Chinese Theater, and Ethel blabs it to Fred.

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Monday, February 1, 2010 1:41 PM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Someone stole his coke stash, and he feels blaming a dead man (with no record of drug use) will somehow bring it back?

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

That, or he's been taking lessons from PN...

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Monday, February 8, 2010 6:05 PM

Figured I'd ask this question here instead of making a specific thread for it;

Has anyone seen the Richard Donner cut of Superman 2? I keep seeing the DVD collection of both, and wondered whether it was worth getting. It's double the price of just getting the regular version, but you do get both versions.

So just wondering if it's actually worth getting both versions of the film, or whether I'm better off just getting the 'official' version.

Cheers!

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Tuesday, February 9, 2010 7:14 AM

Honestly, the Donnor cut is a mixed bag, as it was never properly finished. A quick breakdown:

The Good: It feels more tonally consistent with the first film, and also follows the plot directly - in this version the nuke Supes sends into space at the end of 1 is what frees Zod and Co. from the Phantom Zone. Most of the goofy humor that Lester added has been removed, as have the extra powers Supes develops at the end (so no celophane S shield). There are a few entirely new scenes, mainly having to do with Luthor in prison.

The Bad: Because Donner never had a chance to finish the film, there are some obvious concessions made to make this movie work. The most obvious are the scene where Clark and Lois check into their hotel at Niagara falls - instead of the Lester-directed scene we know, we get Donnor's version - which was never actually shot, so this cut features the original screen test between Reeves and Kidder - which happened to have been that scene. So for one scene in the middel of the film, both actors are younger and Clark is significantly less muscular.

The most obvious difference/flaw is the ending. When Donnor was onboard, they hadn't written an ending for the first film, and when he was fired, they took the ending from the 2nd film (rewind the world) and put it in the first (leaving Lester to come up with the reverse kryptonite chamber to end his no. 2). So, the Donnor cut of 2 ends exactly the same way 1 did - with Superman rewinding time to undo the damage Zod had done.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, February 9, 2010 9:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BigRichard:

So just wondering if it's actually worth getting both versions of the film, or whether I'm better off just getting the 'official' version.

Storymark was pretty much spot-on here.
Personally, I HAD to own both. Generally, I watch the Lester version up until Superman says "General, would you care to step outside?", then I switch to the Donner Cut for the rest of the movie(the final battle & the confrontation at the Fortress of Solitude are MUCH better handled in that one), making sure to hit the "skip" button twice when I see Perry in his bathroom to "cut out" the superfluous & redundant turning time back thing- this gives the effect of Lois retaining her memory & makes much more sense of the scene where Clark goes back to the diner to mess with the douchebag trucker.
But, the whole Donner Cut is fascinating to watch in any case IMO.

The Kryptonian Chrisisall

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Tuesday, February 9, 2010 9:46 AM

CLJOHNSTON108

Quote:
Originally posted by lwaves:
I was gonna mention Smallville as well but I guess he hasn't actually been Superman yet so I guess it doesn't count.

Yeah, I noticed that show wasn't even included in last place, but I've only seen about 10 minutes of an episode (and I wasn't the slightest bit impressed).
It's been, what, 9 years this show's been on, and the closest thing to the classic costume he wears is a red jacket over a blue shirt? That's all I ever see in promos.

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Tuesday, February 9, 2010 9:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
makes much more sense of the scene where Clark goes back to the diner to mess with the douchebag trucker.

That's one part that bothered me. Having Supes go back and totally trash the guy just to get even never seemed very Superman-like to me.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, February 9, 2010 10:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:

That's one part that bothered me. Having Supes go back and totally trash the guy just to get even never seemed very Superman-like to me.

Superman didn't do it- Clark did.
After working out.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Tuesday, February 9, 2010 2:59 PM

alright, I might go with both then, the Donner cut sounds interesting if nothing else.
Thanks Storymark and CiA!

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Tuesday, February 9, 2010 3:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BigRichard:
the Donner cut sounds interesting if nothing else.

More than that- the Metropolis fight, although not lengthened, is cleaned up so much (mostly goofy s**t taken out) that you'll not want to watch the Lester version of it ever again IMO.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 9:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Honestly, the Donnor cut is a mixed bag, as it was never properly finished. A quick breakdown:

The Good: It feels more tonally consistent with the first film, and also follows the plot directly - in this version the nuke Supes sends into space at the end of 1 is what frees Zod and Co. from the Phantom Zone. Most of the goofy humor that Lester added has been removed, as have the extra powers Supes develops at the end (so no celophane S shield). There are a few entirely new scenes, mainly having to do with Luthor in prison.

I thought the Donner cut was closer to the third film in tone. Just sort of goofy. Thank god for the 'real' Superman 2.

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 9:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:

Superman didn't do it- Clark did.
After working out.

Yikes, Supes is a schizo.

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 9:10 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by OPPYH:

I thought the Donner cut was closer to the third film in tone. Just sort of goofy.

You saw a different film than I did, clearly!

The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 9:21 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:

You saw a different film than I did, clearly!

The laughing Chrisisall

No, parts of it were interesting...but come on.
You'd actually watch the Donner cut over the Lester version?

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 9:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by OPPYH:
parts of it were interesting

Most of it was BETTER, just not, like, you know, a complete movie....

Quote:

You'd actually watch the Donner cut over the Lester version?

As I said above, I usually watch the first two thirds of Lester's version, then switch to the Donner Cut; the dopeyness of the disco skater, the "home run," the "kiss of forgetfulness," the big giant celophane "S" & more makes me sick in the Lester cut.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 10:07 AM

It is certainly an unfinished film, and so is going to be compromised from the get go. But as cheesy as 3??? The Lester version is loaded with cheese that isn't in the Donner version, so that just makes no sense to me.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 10:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
But as cheesy as 3??? The Lester version is loaded with cheese that isn't in the Donner version, so that just makes no sense to me.

We must make sure he actually *watches* it...

The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 4:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
It is certainly an unfinished film, and so is going to be compromised from the get go. But as cheesy as 3??? The Lester version is loaded with cheese that isn't in the Donner version, so that just makes no sense to me.

Ok, as a whole not as cheesy(no Richard Pryor)because it retains much of the footage of the Lester version. But it certainly has its cheesy moments. Lois jumping out of a window 20 stories up on a hunch? I know the Lester version is kind of similar with the Niagra Falls bit, but This just seemed much more sudden(very near the beginning of the film). The fact that she doesn't even question how she survived the fall is beyond me.

The archival footage(screening test) of Lois and and the handgun with blanks feels out of place, and clunky. It is kind of clever though.

I have always loved the three villains storming the White House..extra violence, and more of a gauge as to hoqw sinister they really are. This was added in the original broadcast premiere of Superman 2 on ABC.

And though I love the extra Brando Kal-El footage, it tends to get a little heavy handed, and I feel it slows the pace of the film.

And the Finale, spinning the world back through time again? I'm not sure if this was meant to be only at the end of the second(Donner's film) and not included in the first film?
But if you watch 1, and then the Donner cut...redundant.

Maybe because I grew up with the Lester version(I love it), but the Donner cut is more like one big deleted scene for me, and I'll never watch it beginning to end again. But it is a neat addition to my Superman collection of dvd's.

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 4:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:

We must make sure he actually *watches* it...

How dare you, I like the Christopher Reeve Superman films more than you

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 4:32 PM