Worst piece of go-se series either mercifully canceled, or painfully given lots of time for suckage by chrisisall

OTHER SCIENCE FICTION SERIES

Worst piece of go-se series either mercifully canceled, or painfully given lots of time for suckage

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 11:03
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VIEWED: 4437
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Wednesday, September 15, 2010 7:54 AM

Pizmo mentioned Starhunter (both series)... yeah, weren't too good. I blind-bought the first one at the Buymore just because it was only $16- I figured, "How bad could it be?"
REAL bad.

Earth 2- had a solid cast, but it seemed like the writers & producers had never seen or read REAL SF before making it.

The New Battlestar Galactica- started off promising enough... but they had no PLAN!!!

Got any others?

The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, September 15, 2010 8:08 AM

OPPYH

Eye candy DOES NOTHING to make a series halfway decent.

Charmed Sucked.

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70's TV FOREVER

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Wednesday, September 15, 2010 8:10 AM

OPPYH

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:

Looks like Mal, Kaylee, and Zoe.

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70's TV FOREVER

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Wednesday, September 15, 2010 8:22 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by OPPYH:

Looks like Mal, Kaylee, and Zoe.

You have to watch a few minutes to see how reaaaaaally bad it it is (there's a short "fan" message at the beginning):

It'd be a nice fan film, I guess...

The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, September 15, 2010 8:40 AM

STORYMARK

Totally agreed on Starhunter. I bought it blind as well, mainly after hearing good things about it here. Barely made it through 2 episodes before I gave the set away.

I love BSG though.

That "no plan" complaint is like "duh". There has been one attempt made at planning a series through to the end from the start, Babylon 5, and even then, due to the realities of production, LOTS of changes had to be made along the way.

Writer Peter David (known for comics, TV and a shitload of Trek novels) has discussed this and pointed out that that's what writers DO - they come up with their basic premise, and then let it evolve from there. To expect them to know exactly where things are going is fool-hearty.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, September 15, 2010 8:47 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:

I love BSG though.

Almost everything about BSG was top-shelf.
Everything but the plotting.

The planning Chrisisall

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Wednesday, September 15, 2010 9:03 AM

STORYMARK

Given some of the shows/movies you've advocated, I'd be careful tossin' those stones....

Plus, it doesn't even really fit your list, given that it wasn't canceled - they chose their end date, yet it still had a fairly short run (as one of the most critically lauded shows on TV, by the by). As opposed to some other, let's say "Angelic" series which got the proverbial axe.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, September 15, 2010 9:07 AM

ZEEK

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Totally agreed on Starhunter. I bought it blind as well, mainly after hearing good things about it here. Barely made it through 2 episodes before I gave the set away.

I love BSG though.

That "no plan" complaint is like "duh". There has been one attempt made at planning a series through to the end from the start, Babylon 5, and even then, due to the realities of production, LOTS of changes had to be made along the way.

Writer Peter David (known for comics, TV and a shitload of Trek novels) has discussed this and pointed out that that's what writers DO - they come up with their basic premise, and then let it evolve from there. To expect them to know exactly where things are going is fool-hearty.

I don't see anything wrong with BSG either. I actually feel the opposite of chrisisall. I thought it started out slowly and had only a few decent episodes. Then the final season was awesome. All out action and answers. Except for the glaring exception that is Kara. That was just poorly handled all around.

Which is why I think writers need to follow one golden rule. "Don't introduce anything into the story unless you know what it is." That would have worked wonders on Lost. I think Lost just started throwing things into the story with no idea what they were. That leaves your writers in a huge hole that they have to dig out of.

If they wanted to introduce Kara as a ghost or an angel or a clone or whatever. All they needed to do was know what she was. Then they can let things evolve from there, but as long as they writer her with her backstory in mind then they shouldn't end up with any major contradictions.

I also like to look to Veronica Mars. That show had season long arcs in their first and second season. I'm sure things didn't play out perfectly, but as long as they know who done it then they don't really have any problems when the middle part goes off track.

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Wednesday, September 15, 2010 9:14 AM

STORYMARK

I personally felt the last season was the weakest, myself. Not "bad", just not as strong. I didn't mind the stuff with Kara, once the Deus-Ex-Machina element bore out completely, it seemed to fit for me. that, and I like there to be a bit of ambiguity - I didn't want EVERYTHING tied up in a neat bow. My problems with the last season was more in how they chose to reveal the secrets - especially the big "Anders explains everything while lying in bed" episode - worst case of "telling instead of showing" I've seen in a while. But all in all I was satisfied by the ending.

I fell the same about LOST, which I liked even more than BSG, though I also was irritated by the final season to a degree. But I thought it held together very well - especially all the time-leaping shenanigans of season 5, which had to have taken a lot of planning to get to work out as well as it did.

Season-long arcs I don't really regard in the same way, as things for a season are relatively locked down (financing in place, actors contracted in). So shows structured like that have an easier time than those who try and tell a full series-long arc, in which there is just so much in flux that they can't count on anything that far down the line.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, September 15, 2010 9:18 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Given some of the shows/movies you've advocated, I'd be careful tossin' those stones....

Fair enough to say.

Quote:

"Angelic" series which got the proverbial axe.

THAT was frakkin' uncalled for. Angel NEEDED one more season!!!

The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, September 15, 2010 9:24 AM

STORYMARK

They shoulda done a spin-off: "Dog-Boy: The Series"

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, September 15, 2010 9:31 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

I never cared for Babylon 5, but worst piece of go-se?

Meh. Not my cup of tea, but I'm not the sort to throw stones or berate anyone for not agreeing with me.

"The modern definition of 'racist' is someone who is winning an argument with a liberal."

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Wednesday, September 15, 2010 10:09 AM

STORYMARK

Uh, no one said B5 was bad. I used it as an counter example.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, September 15, 2010 10:39 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Uh, no one said B5 was bad.

I've heard nothing but good things about it, writing-wise.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, September 15, 2010 11:29 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Uh, no one said B5 was bad.
I've heard nothing but good things about it, writing-wise.

I never cared for it. Gave it more than one chance, too. I think it sorta sucked a bit less on the 3rd attempt I gave it, which may have been the series finale'??? I'm not even sure, I cared so little.

But I was replying to the thread. And while *I* wasn't thrilled w/ the show, I still wouldn't call it go-se.

Pardon for any confusion.

"The modern definition of 'racist' is someone who is winning an argument with a liberal."

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Wednesday, September 15, 2010 11:37 AM

LWAVES

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Uh, no one said B5 was bad.
I've heard nothing but good things about it, writing-wise.

The laughing Chrisisall

The first season is the weakest but it does have points and plots that play out in later seasons so it is necessary for the whole picture. The acting can sometimes be a let down as well, especially in the final season.
But take it all in as one big story and you have a fantastic achievement that has one of the best stories out there. A brilliant show that was far ahead of it's time.

On topic:
Shows that should have been cancelled:

Desperate Housewives
CSI: Miami (I actually like the other two)
Heroes (after the first season)
Any reality show

Merciful cancellations:

Knight Rider (new)
Bionic Woman (new)

"The greatest invention ever is not the wheel. It's the second wheel." - Rich Hall

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Wednesday, September 15, 2010 11:40 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by lwaves:

Merciful cancellations:

Knight Rider (new)
Bionic Woman (new)

That WAS a piece of mercy, sir!

The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, September 15, 2010 4:22 PM

GWEK

First, thoughts on a few series that have been mentioned in this thread:

STARHUNTER: How'd they get Michael Pare to do a crappy Firefly fan-made series?!?

ANGEL: Cancelled too soon. Ironically, a lot of the series was not great, but just as it was finally living up to it's Whedon'y potential--axed, of course.

I definitely wish it had been given another season... but not if it was gonna be based on the crazy comic book we got.

BABYLON 5: For the first three seasons, this was one of the best-written series on TV. (Note that I say "best-written," because the visuals and special FX were like a poor man's TREK, and a lot of the cast was pretty terrible).

Unfortunately, although JMS had a master plan, he was (not surprisingly) shafted by his network. He intended to do a 5-year series, but was told he was going to be cancelled in 4, so he squeezed all his key stuff from years 4 and 5 into the 4th season. THEN the network renewed the show for another year, leaving them scrambling to find a story arc from the remnants of what they hadn't used.

BATTLESTAR GALACTICA: Personally, I think it was a decent show, but incredibly overrated. Most of the characters were flat and nuanced only in their varying degrees of misery. The show was unrelentingly dull and dreary. And the plot often heavy-handedly moved characters around like pieces on the chessboard. For all that, though, it's still entertaining most of the time (except for that crap finale).

As for having a grand plan vs not having a grand plan... A GOOD can get away with having no plan, but a GREAT writer probably will have a plan. a BRILLIANT writer, however, WILL have a broad plan, and that plan will be flexible enough to weather contact with the enemy (network execs, actors, etc). It's the difference between writing toward something, and making it up as you go along.

From the first moments of FIREFLY: writing toward something. Lots of BSG: making it up as you go. LOST and X-FILES are great examples of this theory, I think, because both series went through various stages of both. (I firmly believe that neither Abrams nor Carter expected their signature shows to last more than 2-3 seasons, though, which explains why their shows floundered in the middle).

Now, on to the actual topic of the thread:

MERCIFULLY CANCELLED:
Lone Gunmen (good concept, weak execution)
Invasion, Surface, Threshold... Were these the same show?

GIVEN TOO LONG TO SUCK:
X-Files (4-5 seasons would have been more than enough)
Lost (floundered because it went at least 1-2 seasons too long)
Smallville (I actually still enjoy it, but it has floundered terribly during its run)

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

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Wednesday, September 15, 2010 4:31 PM

CHRISISALL

Very thoughtful & well laid out, GWEK!

The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, September 15, 2010 4:35 PM

GWEK

Thanks. I wanted to add more to the cancelled list, but my fingers hurt from typing. :)

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

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Wednesday, September 15, 2010 4:39 PM

CHRISISALL

Here's one: The Prisoner- given too long to suck, or brilliant mindf**k finale?

I go with the latter.

The not-a-number Chrisisall

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Sunday, September 19, 2010 5:33 AM

CLJOHNSTON108

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Here's one: The Prisoner- given too long to suck, or brilliant mindf**k finale?

I go with the latter.

I thought you LOVED The Prisoner, Chris?

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Sunday, September 19, 2010 5:51 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by cljohnston108:

I thought you LOVED The Prisoner, Chris?

I DO!!! But I must accept that others might have a different opinion.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, September 20, 2010 1:59 PM

SPACEJANITOR

Oh owww. Starhunter...cough. Just when I thought...that...I'd totally suppressed it...

*thud*

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Monday, September 20, 2010 3:28 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

As a Trekkie, I must say that I felt both Voyager and Enterprise were given too long a life. In both cases there was a change of direction part-way through which made improvements to the series, but not (in my opinion) enough to make the enterprise worthwhile. Both series are now just lessons in wasted opportunity.

The final season of TNG was also largely superfluous and poorly written. The 'crew devolves into animals' bit was almost as bad as Voyager's oft ridiculed Threshold episode. The series finale was fairly well done, but otherwise the final season of TNG had too-few bright spots. I think if you removed half of the TNG last-season episodes you'd have a strong season. I'm glad they didn't try to stretch it out any further.

DS9 started out fairly weakly, but went through nearly continuous improvement as it progressed. Seasons 3+ were particularly strong. (There were some dark spots, of course, and the final season's Ezri Dax character was a mistake in my opinion.)

Babylon 5 had a similar trajectory of improvement from Seasons 1 to 4, starting weak and strengthening as it went. Season 1 was almost homework so that you could enjoy Seasons 2-4. Then Season 5 was just extra 'bonus material' of dubious value.

I think it's no coincidence that DS9's greatest strides came with the adoption of a series arc once they encountered the Dominion. This is the same quality that made Babylon 5 stand out. (Seasons 2-4 of Babylon 5 had progressively greater percentages of 'arc' stories. Season 1 had the fewest number of arc stories, and was largely episodic.)

I would like to say that Star Trek TOS was cancelled too soon, but in retrospect I wonder if we haven't benefitted from its cancellation. If it had run its course, would anyone have bothered to revive the universe later?

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Monday, September 20, 2010 3:40 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:

The final season of TNG was also largely superfluous and poorly written.

The final ep, however, was a masterpiece IMHO.
Just sayin'.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, September 20, 2010 3:51 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

The season finale was fairly well done. Its inequities were largely in the FX/art direction/combat scenes, actually. Because those scenes were such a small part of the episode, I can forgive it.

There was also a bit of illogic with the anti-time vortex thingy, but that also wasn't actually the point. It was just a stand-in for Picard making a leap past a previous threshold of understanding.

The best Q/Picard episode was the one where Picard dies of a heart-attack, though. That episode ought to have won an award.

--Anthony

Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.

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Monday, September 20, 2010 3:59 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:

The best Q/Picard episode was the one where Picard dies of a heart-attack, though. That episode ought to have won an award.

ST/SF at it's best, yeah.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Tuesday, September 21, 2010 3:46 AM

MALACHITE

Dark Angel (*ducks head in anticipation of a barrage of verbal stones*). I thought the show's concept could be cool but I watched the first few episodes and couldn't get passed the lame dialogue (something like, "Because of my cat genetics I get horny 2 times a year", and "Are you a slaya' from the himalayas?").

(ETA: not that it is the worst series, or anything. Just that it was disappointing based on Chris's absolute high recommendations...)

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Tuesday, September 21, 2010 7:47 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Malachite:
"Are you a slaya' from the himalayas?").

It was "Are you a playa playa from the Himilayas?"

Futuristic hip-hop lingo, my man. She put it on to sound dopey before slugging that ape.

BTW, ducking was a good idea.

My cat DNA wanted to more than toss verbs.

J/K- to each their own.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Tuesday, September 21, 2010 11:03 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by Malachite:
Dark Angel (*ducks head in anticipation of a barrage of verbal stones*). I thought the show's concept could be cool but I watched the first few episodes and couldn't get passed the lame dialogue (something like, "Because of my cat genetics I get horny 2 times a year", and "Are you a slaya' from the himalayas?").

(ETA: not that it is the worst series, or anything. Just that it was disappointing based on Chris's absolute high recommendations...)

I completely understand. I was able to get through the dialog, and grew to enjoy the series for the most part. But that future hip-hop speak was like nails on a chalkboard.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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