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Originally posted by Storymark:


I went 'round with Chris on that point before. Calling the performances the same is facile and simplistic at best.

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Originally posted by LiLi:
That's it? That is angst and anger, with some darkly dry humor. Telling a joke isn't necessarily jovial. I think you should maybe look up the word jovial.

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Originally posted by chrisisall:
when was Ledger's Joker full of good cheer?

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Originally posted by LiLi:
Life is a joke. Death is a joke. Chaos is fun. Killing is fun.

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Originally posted by chrisisall:
Okay, here's what we got. You guys who love the Nolan Batman flicks love them, period. I get that.
Thing of it is, if you take a somewhat flawed movie that I really love, like, oh, say, 2010, you can hand me a laundry list of things you don't like about it, and I'll probably acknowledge most if not all the points, and end with "but I like it anyway for the overall product, or at least what good points it has that are important to ME."

In the words of a certain character, "Why so serious?"






The laughing Chrisisall

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

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Originally posted by Storymark:


I went 'round with Chris on that point before. Calling the performances the same is facile and simplistic at best.

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Well, OBVIOUSLY they're not the same, but similar enough to make me not able to take the Joker in TDK as anything other than 'heavily influenced' by The Crow. And, it takes me out of the movie.
Sorry, big fan of The Crow here, so if I wasn't, I prolly would have seen Ledger's/Nolan's take of the Joker as fresh and new...


The laughing Chrisisall

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Originally posted by OPPYH:

TDK BAtman, and girl free fall from the top of a 20 story building crash on top of a car flattening it...get up brush themselves off, and walk away. Fantasy or reality. Pick One.

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Originally posted by Storymark:

And yet you see Jack's "Jack at 11" as some great performance?

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Originally posted by LiLi:

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Originally posted by chrisisall:
when was Ledger's Joker full of good cheer?

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In the video with the fake Batman, in the interrogation scene, during the chase when he was driving the truck, and while he was hanging upside-down off a building, just to name a few. Did you actually see this movie? Was all the delighted laughter edited out or something? The Joker delights in death and chaos. Much of the inspiration for TDK Joker came from the comic "The Killing Joke" which wonderfully shows off the deep psychosis of the Joker. Life is a joke. Death is a joke. Chaos is fun. Killing is fun. It's pretty dark, so maybe some parallel could be drawn with other characters who are deep into darkness, but really that's pretty insubstantial.


Facts are stubborn things.

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

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Originally posted by Storymark:

And yet you see Jack's "Jack at 11" as some great performance?

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I'm officially lost here...
?


The laughing Chrisisall

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Originally posted by Cybersnark:

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Originally posted by LiLi:
I've certainly never heard of something like memory cloth,

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_material
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shape_memory_polymer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_rubber
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dielectric_elastomers

http://news.discovery.com/tech/t-shirt-body-armor-tank.html

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Originally posted by Storymark:

You tout Nicholson's performance in Batman '89 as this watershed performance - and while I'll agree it's entertaining, it never struck me as much more than Jack being Jack - just REALLY over-the-top Jack.

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Originally posted by Storymark:

I think the Nolan films are a big step up over the Burton ones in most respects

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Originally posted by Cybersnark:
In Metropolis, Clark Kent is the real person, while "Superman" is just a costume he wears.

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

The biggest single flaw in Batman & Robin was that they wanted BOTH Batman & Wayne to be the real guys. That part failed miserably. If they wanted Wayne to be 'real', then Batman should have been waaay out there. You can't have your bat-cake, and eat it too. That makes for guano.

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Originally posted by Storymark:


Now, granted, they botched it about as much as they possibly could. But that one element, was conceptually sound, I feel.

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Originally posted by Storymark:
I consider him the worst Bat.

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Originally posted by Storymark:
It is the one and only Batman related DVD I do not, and will not purchase. I've turned down the special edition, 2 disks and all, from the $3 bin.

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Originally posted by Storymark:


You see no difference between a guy landing on his feet from a height and breaking his legs (plain shoes, straight leg, pressure all focused on one point, no give to the ground) and a guy wearing an armored suit designed for such situations, with a cape designed to break such falls, landing on a surface with has several feet of give? You see them as the same?

Take a physics class, and/or remove the stick from your hind-quarters....

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Originally posted by OPPYH:

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Originally posted by Storymark:


You see no difference between a guy landing on his feet from a height and breaking his legs (plain shoes, straight leg, pressure all focused on one point, no give to the ground) and a guy wearing an armored suit designed for such situations, with a cape designed to break such falls, landing on a surface with has several feet of give? You see them as the same?

Take a physics class, and/or remove the stick from your hind-quarters....

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Yeah if the cape slowed him down a bit its plausible. But it didn't. Body armor wouldn't do anything to cushion you from a 300' fall. You could be wearing Vibranium Adamantium armor, but the fact is your insides would still be jarred so badly you would be dead in an instant.

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With this reasoning The Joker from the original Batman(1989) movie should have been alive at the end after his fall. I guess Tim Burton's film has more realism than TDK.

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Originally posted by OPPYH:

Body armor wouldn't do anything to cushion you from a 300' fall. You could be wearing Vibranium Adamantium armor, but the fact is your insides would still be jarred so badly you would be dead in an instant.

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Originally posted by Storymark:

Well, I didn't say it was entirely realistic,

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Originally posted by Storymark:
Hell, just the maneuvering Iron Man does should liquefy him inside the suit, much less any impact.

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Originally posted by chrisisall:
May I respectfully suggest that you not bring physics into the discussion, then?

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Originally posted by Storymark:
I responded to someone else doing so, with story logic. I'm no scientist.

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

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Originally posted by Storymark:
I responded to someone else doing so, with story logic. I'm no scientist.

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There was a scene in Mission Impossible III where an explosion knocked Tom Cruise back into a car, and they did it mostly with ropes, then CGI took them out, so it looked great, and Tom was suitably frazzled for the next few moments. BUT, think how YOU would react in that situation...
I'd be on the ground for at least a minute, probably more. I wouldn't be able to stand correctly for a few minutes, let alone run.
And this is all assuming I didn't break my neck hitting the car.

A totally realistic movie with humans just in great shape isn't possible anymore, let alone superheroes wearing body armour...

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Originally posted by Storymark:


You want something more in-line with the impossible - I'd go with the 'Nuke the fridge' scene.

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

EDIT TO ADD: Hooooboy, I just re-read this and NEED to 'splain something! Not that Demons from the Lost Arc are more believable than anything in BB or TDK, just that the NON-MYSTICAL stuff seems more so- like the Indy gets dragged/Indy gets hurt kinda thing. Or the he-can't-drop-the-big-dude-with-one-punch thing. Savy?


The laughing Chrisisall

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Originally posted by chrisisall:
Later I realized it was just that God didn't want him to die yet.
yeah, that's it.....

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Originally posted by Cybersnark:

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Originally posted by chrisisall:
Later I realized it was just that God didn't want him to die yet.
yeah, that's it.....

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Remember in The Last Crusade, when he drank from the Grail? Didn't that bestow immortality?

For all we know he did die when the fridge landed --then immediately revived, Highlander-style.

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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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@ Somnambulist- *just* watched a *good* transfer of Batman Returns and WOW, I just LOVE the re-design of Keaton's Bat-suit!!! I totally forgot how GREAT it looked!!!

And the editing/pace of the flick is much better.
Still, big penguins with dudes in costumes at the end, but whatever. BR is now easily on par with the first film for me!

The first two Burton movies are still my favourites, after all.

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The part that really made me jump was when Batman stuck the bomb it the strong dude's pants, then kicked him down the sewer! That was SO cold! He even smiled. Chilling.

Batman was excellent superhero adventure IMO.
Batman Returns was twisted high superhero art.

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Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
Originally posted by chrisisall:

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The part that really made me jump was when Batman stuck the bomb it the strong dude's pants, then kicked him down the sewer! That was SO cold! He even smiled. Chilling.

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...Now I wanna see them again!

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Originally posted by chrisisall:
Okay, now I just watched Batman (Keaton), and I watched Batman Begins the other week. Man, I am SO split on which I like better...

Batman has:

A peerless Joker performance (no, this is NOT a debatable point, TDK's Joker just copied Brandon Lee's Crow, but in colour).
A cool Batmobile.
A hot love interest.
Great fight scenes.
A visually interesting & goth Gotham, and fascinating production design in general.
Funny jokes.
An excellent Elfman score.
A twisted mentality.
Drawbacks:
Some cheesy FX, rushed & thin storyline (writer's strike).

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Batman Begins has:
Lush photography.
An excellent Zimmer score.
A cool Batmobile chase.
Insane fight scenes.
A super-serious tone.
Gary Oldman.
Morgan Freeman.
Michael Caine.
Drawbacks:
CGI sometimes makes me sleepy, Bale's Wayne performance can be rather unsympathetic compared to Keaton's (or Clooney's).

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Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:

You seem to lose sight that Katie was the ultimate Bat-hottie.

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Originally posted by chrisisall:
The part that really made me jump was when Batman stuck the bomb it the strong dude's pants, then kicked him down the sewer! That was SO cold! He even smiled. Chilling.

Batman was excellent superhero adventure IMO.
Batman Returns was twisted high superhero art.

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Originally posted by Storymark:

Quote:

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Originally posted by chrisisall:
The part that really made me jump was when Batman stuck the bomb it the strong dude's pants, then kicked him down the sewer! That was SO cold! He even smiled. Chilling.

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As much as I like the movie, that scenes shows a massive, fundamental misunderstanding of the character.

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