Renouncing my ways... by deepgirl187

There were two other things I noticed while watching. I don't know if any of you remember this, but there was a show called Kindred: The Embraced that was on the year before Buffy started (I think). It's interesting because even though Kindred was on the year before, the show was more graphic than Buffy (or at least Buffy's first few episodes). But once again, I think Buffy was aimed at a younger audience.

One other thing I noticed was David Boreanaz. Even though I knew that he played Angel before, I still see him as Seeley Booth from Bones, which was the first show I saw him in. But based on the interviews I've seen, I really think that the character of Booth is closer to his personality than Angel was. But then again, maybe my opinion will change after I see more of both series.

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This is my story...

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Monday, June 26, 2006 4:19 PM

CHRISTHECYNIC

I never liked Buffy much and I didn't know why until I saw Buffy on an episode of Angel and then it hit me. (I've said this before, sorry for those who have heard it many times.)

Buffy kills things, that's what she does, she's the slayer and she kills things. Evil is drawn both to her and to her town for obvious reasons, and when it shows up she ends it.

Angels saves both lives and souls. To do this he has to go out and look, often times with help from on high, but the question isn't one of effort, it' about purpose. Angel makes the world a better place by protecting the innocent (most of the time at any rate) Buffy does it by killing the guilty.

Angel represents protection and redemption, Buffy represents vengance and destruction.

I always felt that protecting the good was more important than punishing the bad, so I've liked Angel more since I fist saw the show.

-

So my dislike of Buffy, which is minor at most, is based on the way Buffy approaches the problem of evil, not the quality of the show.

Glad that you've found something you like there.

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Monday, June 26, 2006 4:39 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

I never thought much about Buffy before I became a Firefly fan. The few times I caught it or Angel while channel surfing it was mid-episode, so I didn't know anything about what was going on or the character development during the course of either series. It did appear to be cheesy and beneath my level.

Boy, was I wrong. Later rented them all from Netflix, and I now own all but the last seasons of both. It is just a matter of time til I get those, in fact that's what I have in mind to get with my next amazon gift certificate.

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Monday, June 26, 2006 5:30 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

I too have come, albiet way late, to the Buffy party.

But the bastards @ Blockbuster screwed up, and I'm getting the DVDs out of order in the mail. I am SO pissed. I need to send a movie back now w/ out seeing it yet ( Crash ) just to get the 3rd disc for Season 1.

I'm SO fucking pissed! That's 2 weeks now I'm having to wait because of their screw up.

Grrrrr!

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Monday, June 26, 2006 5:36 PM

SAMEERTIA

Buffy took longer for me to warm to, and honestly, back when I dissed Buffy, I hadn't really watched Buffy.

It wasn't until it was running in the "after-work" spot that I started using it for my evening workout distraction. (pacing is PERFECT for weight lifting) and then I was hooked.

I'm not a perfect fan. I don't own the dvds and as such have never seen the musical or "Hush". But I believe that Buffy was a tremendous series and that those who diss Buffy are those who've never actually WATCHED Buffy.
:)

Welcome to the darkside! We'll be playing Kitten Poker later...

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Tuesday, June 27, 2006 4:48 PM

If you're enjoying Buffy so far, but don't yet love it, I'd urge you to stick with it at least thru the end of S2. The first year, besides being just 12 eps long, is sort of a "getting their feet under them" kind of season--for both the cast and the writers. The second season is when it really takes off.

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Tuesday, June 27, 2006 5:14 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Buffy took longer for me to warm to, and honestly, back when I dissed Buffy, I hadn't really watched Buffy.

Ditto. I used to think it was just a stupid spinoff made out of a stupid movie, for a network that was desperate to have *something* to put on the air. That was, of course, before I'd ever seen a single episode of it. And I held to that belief until last summer, when I "discovered" Buffy, and to my shock, realized that this wasn't just 90210 with fangs - this was some of the best writing I'd ever seen on TV!

As for Firefly being way better than Buffy... well, yes and no. I agree that Firefly was Joss at his best (so far, anyway); the writing, dialog, pacing, action, and humor are just SOOOOO right on the money. Everything just clicks, in ways that Buffy and Angel just hinted at, or got close to, but never *quite* to the perfection that Firefly achieved. But if I had to choose one complete series set to own on DVD, it'd likely be Buffy over Firefly. Why? Quantity, pure and simple. Firefly was fantastic, but there just isn't near enough of it. Buffy, while not quite as good, is still amazingly good TV - and there's seven seasons worth of watchy goodness to love! Even if you don't like some seasons or particular episodes, there's still an awful lot of great in that big box o' DVDs. :)

Fortunately, this isn't a world where I have to make that choice. I get to have all the Buffy DVDs, all the Angel DVDs, AND all the Firefly and Serenity as icing on the cake.

Mike

A baby seal walks into a club...

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Wednesday, June 28, 2006 9:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by deepgirl187:
Have sympathy on this poor hypocrite. She knows not what she does.

For years I have spouted my negative views on all that is Buffy. And while, to a certain extent, I still retain those views, I'm attempting to be more open-minded.

I say all of this because I just finished watching the first two episodes of Buffy. My original reasons for doing this were mostly Firefly realted (I wanted to see some of our BDH's in previous roles, not to mention David Boreanaz). However, while watching, I came to sort of an epiphany. Buffy really isn't that bad. Sure it's a little dated, and the vamps look cheesy as hell, but hey, it was what, 1996? TV wasn't operating on the same level that it is now, or even when Firefly was on. Not to mention the fact the show was probably geared towards teenagers, which effected the way in which the content was displayed. But all in all, the show is actually watchable, even enjoyable.

So in conclusion, I am offically renouncing my anti-Buffy ways. We may have a conversion on our hands yet. (Of course, I doubt it will top Firefly anytime soon )

I'm with you.

I would never have ever watched BTVS without having listened to the people here. I find though, that BTVS is a very good watch, and it is also very clear that Buffy is more than just a Vampire Slayer.

River

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Wednesday, June 28, 2006 9:27 PM

SLAYER730

I started with BtVS in the 5th season and played major catch-up, but it was my first Whedon show so I'll always have a soft spot in my heart for Buffy. It's certainly not Firefly by any stretch of the imagination, but the heart is there and once in a while you catch an inkling of what's to come. I'd definitely recommend getting through the season 1 as quickly as possible...there IS a light at the end of the tunnel. They do get better. :)

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Wednesday, June 28, 2006 9:37 PM

SLAYER730

And Season 5 is the best

***Never judge a book by its movie***

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Wednesday, June 28, 2006 9:49 PM

The seasons start off as rather kiddy-like but they are good episodes. Later they take on a more serious note. From there it takes on a full blown soap opera that drags your souls Straight into it.

I never thought I would be saying this.

River

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Thursday, June 29, 2006 10:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
That's 2 weeks now I'm having to wait because of their screw up.

I feel for you (not just a Simon line

), although I seem to remember suggesting that you and all others with even a mild liking of the first season to just go ahead and purchase the Chosen Collection....any way you do it though, good vamp hunting to ya!

Would have saved me a lot of time and $ Chrisisall

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Thursday, June 29, 2006 10:04 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
The seasons start off as rather kiddy-like but they are good episodes. Later they take on a more serious note. From there it takes on a full blown soap opera that drags your souls Straight into it.

Me too.
(Now is it Dark Angel time, yet?)

Persistant to excess Chrisisall

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Friday, June 30, 2006 3:24 AM

After watching four episodes, I've decided the easiest course of action would be to just buy the entire series, along with Angel once I get to it. Now if I can only save up the cash...

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"What you plan and what takes place ain't ever exactly been similar."

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Friday, June 30, 2006 3:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by deepgirl187:
After watching four episodes, I've decided the easiest course of action would be to just buy the entire series, along with Angel once I get to it. Now if I can only save up the cash...

Jolly good decision on Buffy, but I advise caution with Angel- some like it better than Buffy, some not nearly as much (me), and I think it depends on how you percieve David Boreanaz. I totally like him as a supporting actor, but I don't see him holding up an entire series by himself (as Angel, at any rate), however, your milage may vary. Season one is a must-see, though.

I sold comics and DVD's I wasn't watching very often to finance my Joss addiction; it was faster than saving up...

And don't forget Titan AE! Chrisisall

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Friday, June 30, 2006 3:45 AM

FOLLOWMAL

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I sold comics and DVD's I wasn't watching very often to finance my Joss addiction; it was faster than saving up...

Eeeep, why have I not thought of this sooner!?

And I've been netflixing Buffy...

NO MORE!

* digs thru office shelf for all old comics and checks DVD shelf for stuff that no longer suits.*

I like going to the Book Barn! I'm SURE they know folks who will want these.

"You hold. Hold 'til I get back." Mal

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Friday, June 30, 2006 4:11 AM

At Turn It Up, the local used CD and DVD store, I can get between $4 and $8, depending on the title, more for box sets. If you have like 30 DVD's you can sell, that just about the Chosen Collection right there. Comics are a bit dodgey, they have to be classic, in demand, and in great condition, otherwise it's like, you'll get a quarter a comic or $25 a box or whatnot.

Or u can take out a loan Chrisisall

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Friday, June 30, 2006 4:21 AM

FOLLOWMAL

Ok, the digging didn't turn up enough DVD's or comics for enough cashey money.

I guess I will just have to use the ole trusty credit card.

"You hold. Hold 'til I get back." Mal

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Friday, June 30, 2006 4:44 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by FollowMal:

I guess I will just have to use the ole trusty credit card.

I know a guy who knows a guy who deals in souls...Chrisisall

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Friday, June 30, 2006 8:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Jolly good decision on Buffy, but I advise caution with Angel- some like it better than Buffy, some not nearly as much (me), and I think it depends on how you percieve David Boreanaz. I totally like him as a supporting actor, but I don't see him holding up an entire series by himself (as Angel, at any rate), however, your milage may vary. Season one is a must-see, though.

I see your point, but after having watched David in Bones, I really believe he could hold a series on his own. So I'm willing to go on a little faith here. Besides, if anything, I can just sit and drool over him.

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"What you plan and what takes place ain't ever exactly been similar."

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Friday, June 30, 2006 9:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by deepgirl187:
So I'm willing to go on a little Faith here.

I think most here would say that...

The Totally Inappropiate Chrisisall

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Sunday, July 16, 2006 3:49 AM

So I've finally arrived at the second season. After sitting spellbound for almost four hours, I can sum up my experience in one word. Two words, actually. Spike RULES.

Out of all the characters in Buffy (besides Willow), he has to be the one that I liked instantly. I don't know if it's his wisecracking attitude or his screw everyone demeanor, but whatever it is, it's genius. Joss always seems to make the coolest badguys.

And one more thing: the line where Spike calls Angel an "Uncle Tom"? Priceless.

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"These words are all I have so I'll write them."

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Sunday, July 16, 2006 4:28 AM

Deepgirl, I'm glad you share my appreciation of the Spikester. He's like the C-3PO of the Buffy'verse.
(A mean and like deadly C-3PO, I mean...)

Chrisisall The Bloody

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Sunday, July 16, 2006 5:24 AM

22CLAWS

Entirely pointy.

OMG. Watching season two for the first time. I envy you.

Savor.
22

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Sunday, July 16, 2006 5:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by deepgirl187:
So I've finally arrived at the second season. After sitting spellbound for almost four hours, I can sum up my experience in one word. Two words, actually. Spike RULES.

Out of all the characters in Buffy (besides Willow), he has to be the one that I liked instantly. I don't know if it's his wisecracking attitude or his screw everyone demeanor, but whatever it is, it's genius. Joss always seems to make the coolest badguys.

I started out disliking Spike, but the more episodes and season that had him in it, I've finally decided that Spike is one of Joss's best characters in the BTVS and Angel world.

River

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Sunday, July 16, 2006 6:46 PM

KAYNA

I love my captain

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by deepgirl187:
So I'm willing to go on a little Faith here.
I think most here would say that...

The Totally Inappropiate Chrisisall

Oooo! Faith! Wait till you get to her. Evil psyco slayer!

I never hated Buffy but I never completely loved it either. I would watch it intermitently. I loves some seaons and not so much others. Joss has some great writing yes but in 7 seasons there will be thing to dislike. I actually love some of the later seasons most. When Willow loses it is pretty frickin awesome. Since you're new to it DeepGirl I'll hit spoilers

Select to view spoiler:

Sweet, gentle, mousey Willow flaying folk alive and attempting to destroy the town? Unexpected and very cool.

I never got into Angel so much. I watched it a couple of times but it never hooked me.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Op: You're fighting a war you've already lost.
Mal: Yeah, well I'm known for that.

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Monday, July 17, 2006 3:09 AM

One other thing I've liked so far is the change in Cordelia's character. Not that she's perfect or anything, but Joss is actually turning her into a halfway decent person. She kind of reminds me of Jayne (I know this sounds crazy, just let me finish) in that she isn't just a one-dimensional character. You can see that there is a lot more to her than what she lets people see.

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"These words are all I have so I'll write them."

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Monday, July 17, 2006 3:22 AM

PIZ

I watched quite a bit of Angel when it was on TNT (might still be for all I know at this point), and my son has been getting me to watch Buffy on DVD (I've seen seasons 1, 2, and most of 3 so far). Gotta say, I just don't connect with either show. With Firefly, I immediately bonded with nearly everything about it, especially the characters (and especially Mal, who has a lot of parallels to my own life). Nothing so far from either Buffy or Angel. Really pretty girls, but that's about the only attraction.

--
"That's what government's for: get in a man's way." - Mal

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Monday, July 17, 2006 3:26 AM

BTVS the sort of show were you have to watch about 5 seasons. The show grows on you after you learn about all the characters and their developments.

River

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Monday, July 17, 2006 5:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kayna:
Since you're new to it DeepGirl I'll hit spoilers

Umm, try re-reading your post and count up how many spoilers you gave away that aren't tagged...

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Monday, July 17, 2006 5:57 AM

She didn't give away any spoilers. I would think it's common knowledge that Faith joins the show in season three. It's not going to affect my appreciation of the show to find out when a character is going to join.

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"These words are all I have so I'll write them."

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Monday, July 17, 2006 8:05 AM

AMYEL

Quote:
Originally posted by deepgirl187:
One other thing I've liked so far is the change in Cordelia's character. Not that she's perfect or anything, but Joss is actually turning her into a halfway decent person. She kind of reminds me of Jayne (I know this sounds crazy, just let me finish) in that she isn't just a one-dimensional character. You can see that there is a lot more to her than what she lets people see.

That's not crazy at all. Joss has even said that Jayne is the Cordelia of Firefly. Mostly referring to the lack of a filter between the brain and mouth, but they definitely have a lot more in common like you say.

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Thursday, July 20, 2006 11:25 AM

And so my journey continues...

I keep seeing more parallels between Buffy and Firefly (which I suppose only makes sense).

Giles is kind of like the Book of Buffy. He seems infallible, but during the course of the show, you find that he has flaws like anyone else (which I suppose we would have found out about Book). Of course, Giles is way less scary than Book seemed.

Creepifying and perverted though it may seem, Spike and Drusilla are a lot like Simon and River. Spike had the perfect chance to finally kill Buffy (Lie To Me), but he sacrificed it to save Drusilla. Spike would do anything to protect Drusilla, much like Simon would for River. Once again, Joss prevails in showing characters with depth.

Buffy continues to impress. My mother actually likes this better than Firefly (she's watched every episode with me so far). Can't say I agree with her

, but I'm really enjoying the series so far.

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"These words are all I have so I'll write them."

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Thursday, July 20, 2006 11:38 AM

GHOSTTOWN

I watched all of season 1, intitialy I had a really time getting into it. The main two reasons I kept hooked where A)the family like cahracter dynamics of Buffy and friends and B)how quirky in a cute way Willow is. The bad guy aspect to me was kinda lame, but I hear the bad guys get much more interesting as it goes. Luckily the heroes are interesting enough to make me want to see season 2...

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Thursday, July 20, 2006 2:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by deepgirl187:
Of course, Giles is way less scary than Book seemed.

Get through S5 and see if you still feel that way.

I think every character in Firefly has a Buffyverse equivalent, but for some of them, you have to look to the cast of Angel (which you haven't gotten to yet, I'm guessing).

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Thursday, July 20, 2006 2:02 PM

SHINYYUKARI

Quote:
Originally posted by deepgirl187:

Giles is kind of like the Book of Buffy. He seems infallible, but during the course of the show, you find that he has flaws like anyone else (which I suppose we would have found out about Book). Of course, Giles is way less scary than Book seemed.

I never really thought of it that way, but that is true. Sure, Giles is less scary but he has a past he's tried to reform from as well.

"Well next time you be the bait!"~Andy Hurley
"Okay! Everybody not talking about sex, in here. Everybody else, elsewhere."~Wash
Browncoats are the coolest fans I've ever seen.

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Thursday, July 20, 2006 5:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Groosalugg:
Quote:
Originally posted by deepgirl187:
Of course, Giles is way less scary than Book seemed.

Get through S5 and see if you still feel that way.

Do you have to scare me like that?

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"These words are all I have so I'll write them."

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Friday, July 21, 2006 8:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by deepgirl187:
Quote:
Originally posted by Groosalugg:
Quote:
Originally posted by deepgirl187:
Of course, Giles is way less scary than Book seemed.

Get through S5 and see if you still feel that way.

Do you have to scare me like that?

He's kidding; Giles stays very warm and fuzzy throughout.

Petting his Kek demon Chrisisall

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Wednesday, July 26, 2006 2:50 AM

Once again, Joss comes through with the frightening and perverse. I'm referring to, of course, Xander and Cordelia. Could that be a cooler pairing?

On a different note, should I be terrified that Drusilla has her strength back? And why do I get the feeling that she's going to do something to hurt Spike?

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"Now they see the sky and they remember what they are."

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Wednesday, July 26, 2006 9:19 AM

You can't make me tell...

Chrisisall

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Wednesday, July 26, 2006 10:30 AM

Awww, come on, please?

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"Now they see the sky and they remember what they are."

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Wednesday, July 26, 2006 10:35 AM

She poses no threat to the Spikester.
But keep watching, Spike's journey is (IMHO) the most interesting aspect of Buffy.

William the Chrisisall

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Wednesday, July 26, 2006 9:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by deepgirl187:
And why do I get the feeling that she's going to do something to hurt Spike?

Going to hurt him physically? No, have no worries about that...

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Sunday, July 30, 2006 3:25 AM

*peeks head out from under the covers*

Don't mind me. I'm hiding from the scary evilness that is Drusilla.

Though I haven't finished the series yet (nor watched Angel), I have to say that Drusilla is one of the most frightening characters I've encountered in the Jossverse. That scene in "Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered" with Xander? I'm sure my squeals of terror could be heard a block away.

And I never thought I'd actually say this, but poor Spike. The minute Angel shows up, Drusilla just forgets about him. Never mind the fact that Angel's the one who drove her crazy.

By the way, is it just me, or is Angel waaay shinier now that he's evil? Not that I don't want him back together with Buffy, but you gotta admit, he is pretty cool. You can really tell David's having fun with the part.

The second season has been really great so far. You can see that everyone feels comfortable with their parts, as well as the storylines. Can't wait for my next disc to arrive.

P.S. - Did they ever explain why Drusilla was so weak at first? I know that she was insane because of Angel, but why was she physically weak? Just curious.

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"Now they see the sky and they remember what they are."

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Sunday, July 30, 2006 7:43 AM

STAKETHELURK

Quote:
Did they ever explain why Drusilla was so weak at first? I know that she was insane because of Angel, but why was she physically weak?

They explain it in “School Hard,” the first ep with Spike & Dru, and then again in “Lie to Me,” but always in an off-hand way. In “School Hard,” the explanation goes something like this:

DRU: “I miss Prague.”
SPIKE: “You nearly died in Prague. Idiot mob.”

And in “Lie to Me,” Giles identifies Dru in one of his books, but believes she was killed by a mob in Prague. Buffy’s response: “Well, they don’t make mobs like they used to.”

So that’s what left Dru so weak and why Spike brought her to the Hellmouth to recover.

And yes, Angelus is definitely one of the high points of season two--but then there are a lot of high points.

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Sunday, July 30, 2006 11:51 AM

AMYEL

There was a comic book called "Tales of the Vampires", which was made up of several vampire-related stories. I would call it semi-canon, since Joss wrote a few of them, and other Buffy staff writers wrote some as well. There was one written by Drew Goddard (writer for Buffy season 7 and Angel season 5) that was about Spike and Dru in Prague. What happened was that a mob ganged up on Spike and Dru, Spike got staked (they missed the heart) and thrown off a bridge. Dru ended up being taken somewhere and put in a torture chair and then she got slammed with a magical pain whammy.

That might not be the "official" story (there's another one about a post-Chosen Dracula and Xander that probably would never actually happen) but it's a pretty accurate guess I would say.

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Sunday, July 30, 2006 2:45 PM

CYBERSNARK

Quote:
Originally posted by amyel:
There was a comic book called "Tales of the Vampires", which was made up of several vampire-related stories.
(. . .)
That might not be the "official" story (there's another one about a post-Chosen Dracula and Xander that probably would never actually happen) but it's a pretty accurate guess I would say.

Also remember that most (all?) of the TotV stories were narrated by that mean old vampire the Watchers had chained up, talking to a bunch of snot-nosed proto-Watchers. No way of telling what was accurate, what was hearsay and rumour, and what was made up whole cloth to scare the children.

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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Sunday, July 30, 2006 5:06 PM