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Originally posted by AgentRouka:
Seems to me that 1933 would be a much better time to intervene. I just don't think that Buffy would have made much of a difference, this a being political and economic mess, not a hand-to-hand combat kind.

Come to think of it, I also don't think she would have gotten far in 1943, unless she had spent some considerable time beforehand studying lots and lots of details. And even then only MAYBE.

She has super-human strength going for her, nothing else. What would YOU do, if you were sent back to that time with super-human strength, knowing only what you know now?

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Originally posted by RiveR6213:

If I was her, after I came out of my drugged state, and after I walked about in some of Germany cities and experienced a few book burning parties and maybe experienced a few Nuremberg like rallies, with my knowledge of how the war was supposed to turn out I would go underground and fight the Nazis. I think Buffy would have done this. I think she would have done this well. She would have become that nightmare needle in a haystack for the Nazi party.

-River

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Originally posted by AgentRouka:

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Originally posted by RiveR6213:

If I was her, after I came out of my drugged state, and after I walked about in some of Germany cities and experienced a few book burning parties and maybe experienced a few Nuremberg like rallies, with my knowledge of how the war was supposed to turn out I would go underground and fight the Nazis. I think Buffy would have done this. I think she would have done this well. She would have become that nightmare needle in a haystack for the Nazi party.

-River

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And how would you have found a underground anti-Nazi movement? Which, obviously, not eager to advertize itself to random strangers.

Do you speak German? Natively?

What would you have done about your lack of papers? Where would you have stayed and eaten? How would you have paid for travel?

It seems to me that those sort of practical concerns are vital.

A random foreigner without papers and money, without connections or anything, making revolutionary noises... could easily be made to disappear for suspected spying. Or land in jail for vagrancy. Or any other petty little thing.

I don't see anyone getting far on such an adventure unless they had a great deal of knowledge about the complex web of people, circumstances and chronological events involved.

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Originally posted by citizen:
There's the fact that in Joss Verse there was already a Slayert running around the world somewhere, and she already didn't change the course of history.

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More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Originally posted by AgentRouka:
Seems to me that 1933 would be a much better time to intervene.

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Originally posted by Cybersnark:
There were also at least two vampires (one of whom had a soul) fighting on the Allied side as (grudging) mercenaries.

Of course, considering that both Hitler and Mackenzie King (Canada's Prime Minister) were rumoured to be (or be employing) fairly powerful wizards themselves, I'd say there was already more than enough magic being flung around without an extraneous Slayer in play.

And that's not even mentioning the presence of Ed and Hoenheim Elric.

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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Doyle: “So what, you don’t get the ring because your period of self-flagellation isn’t over yet? I mean think of all the daytime people you could help between 9 and 5.”

Angel: “They have help. The whole world is designed for them, so much that they have no idea what goes on around them after dark. They don’t see the weak ones lost in the night, - or the things that prey on them. And if I join them, maybe I’d stop seeing, too.”

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Originally posted by RiveR6213:
If this is so, why do you think that a Slayer chose to stay out of history's way during World War II?

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Originally posted by Cybersnark:

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Originally posted by RiveR6213:
If this is so, why do you think that a Slayer chose to stay out of history's way during World War II?

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Who says she did?

If Hitler was as big on the occult as everyone says, he'd almost certainly know about the Slayer, and likely had forces in play to neutralize her. Maybe there was some special SS unit dedicated to finding the Slayer and keeping her distracted and alive (so as to prevent another being Called).

Hell, the Blitz was probably keeping the Watcher's Council on constant alert, and that's half the equation right there.

The official war history is not the whole story.

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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Originally posted by RiveR6213:
This is all becoming quite grim. Evil seems to win on television and in real life. The good seems to only keep evil at bay; never to destroy it completely, but to keep it from consuming everything. Absolute evil never totally wins, but good also never totally wins...Is this a balance thing? Is that what life is all about?

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I find it difficult to understand that a Slayer in Germany, during the Nazi's reign could do nothing to alter history in a positive way. Maybe I don't have the intelligence to see the big picture. Oh well...

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Originally posted by WTE:
My understanding is that the death camps weren't really widely known about until after Germany'd been defeated. If I'm wrong, sorry,

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Originally posted by WTE:
My understanding is that the death camps weren't really widely known about until after Germany'd been defeated. If I'm wrong, sorry, but if I'm right, that would give another reason for no slayer having intervened.

In fiction-world, of course. I realize there's no real slayer...

HONKS

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

The full knowledge of these camps and what was going on might not have been known until after the war, but there had to be rumors. Train loads of people don't just shuffle off in the night and no one says anything. It wasn't as if we had absolutely NO idea one day, and then WHAM!....we find out what was going on. That might be the case for some , like soldiers in the field, the general public, but I'd bet some intel types had at least 'some' idea in Britian and in the U.S. of what was going on.

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Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Most Germans probably knew quite clearly what was going on, even if they didn't have all the details.

If you go back and read the newspapers and listen to the political speeches of the time, it was painfully clear that the Nazis were not trying to hide it.

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Originally posted by RiveR6213:
Being totally aware of the threat that this thread will quickly end up in Troll country, do you think that history would have been changed in a dramatic way if Buffy Summers had been trapped, drugged, and tied up by some of us, and then sent back through time in a time machine that we created; back to Germany 1943?

Do you think that Buffy Summers having come out of her drugged state and having in a certain period of time realized that she was in Germany 1943 that she could have made a serious difference in the war?

Could a super powered woman have made a difference in a time of chaotic insanity that was world war 2?


Weird topic I know but you decide.

-River

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Originally posted by chrisisall:
The Bush Administration has learned by example. Don't hide what you do, control perception.

Imagine trying to make torture of prisoners legal in the sixties or early seventies- it couldn't have been done. It would have sparked demonstrations-a-plenty, and angered the country.
Now it merely pisses off some human rights groups.
I'm shocked by how plainly Bush & Co have had their way, with such minimal resistance- even now.
In my world, they'd have been in jail by now...but my world is a fantasy one where truth and justice prevail.

Political drive-by Chrisisall

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Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
It’s really stupid to compare the Bush Administration to the Nazis, Chris.

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Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
It’s really stupid to compare the Bush Administration to the Nazis, Chris. Nothing you just said makes any sense. You’re whole premise is wrong. The Bush administration does not control the media and they certainly aren’t using the Nazis as an example.

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Originally posted by Groosalugg:


So, thanks for introducing a political agenda into a completely-unrelated "Buffy" thread, Chris.

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Hope it doesn't--let everyone get back to the (weird) question of "What would Buffy do in 1943?"

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Originally posted by RiveR6213:
If there is a god, then that God abandoned many during World War 2. Even the slayers seemed to have been kept at bay from helping. This planet is full of monsters, and those monsters on the whole are not supernatural; it's us, we are the monsters or are capable of becoming monsters given the right stimuli.

Just finished watching a world war 2 movie and threw up watching a scene where a whole community of butchered people were bulldozed into a mass grave. I hate this planet.

-River

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Originally posted by RiveR6213:
Any normal human being with a soul would react to a scene of butchery with revulsions, and disgusts which I demonstrated when I watched that movie; it is a natural response.

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but it is also very true that the evil that exists in this world totally outnumbers the good.

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