What Gives With Inara? by Jongsstraw

But...but...they were SO close so many times from actually just grabbing eachother and locking lips....it's very frustrating!

I mean, ya know, the end of Our Mrs Reynolds...she is just barely standing on her own, knees a'wobblin', lips a'twitter, ready to be swept up and taken upon, but Joss would have none of that. And the emotional tension at the end of Objects is a cruel extension of Nandi's death...it's all just very sad....and I hate sad.

At least Serenity gave us hope they'd be together again on the ship, and who knows how it could go from there.

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Monday, August 13, 2007 10:54 AM

EMPIREX

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
but in Objects In Space she pulls away from Mal in the end when he is concerned about her bleeding lip...it's a real rude reaction she gives Mal.

Funny how people can all watch the same scene and have different reactions to it. My take on the lip-scene was that she was shocked by his touch and how it made her feel - so she pulled away because she was afraid and startled by her own feelings - not any rudeness on her part.

Though Mal probably read it as: Don't put your grubby hands on me.

*sigh*

Patsy: When you were two years old, we tied you to the central reservation of a motorway.

Edina: But you were like a homing pidgeon, sweetie....back within a week!

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Monday, August 13, 2007 12:22 PM

Empire, I think you're right...I didn't mean to imply that Inara was intentionally rude, or even rude itself, but I wonder what Mal must have thought about her un-easiness at his caring touch. First he gets the news she's leaving just as it seems he's about to open up to her at the end of Hearts...then this response in Objects. After seeing these episodes more and more frequently now...like what else is there I'd rather watch, I'm understanding much better the strange awkwardness between them in the movie.

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Monday, August 13, 2007 12:34 PM

BROWNCOATTILIDIE

Mal says some pretty funny/nasty things directly to Inara probably for his own amusement and because he knows she can handle it. She more often than not hits back with equally witty comments of her own. Mal does, however, support her chosen career behind her back on many occasions and he tries to keep her out of their 'crime' whenever he can. As we learned in Heart of Gold neither of them like complications and, let's face it, if they were to hook up it would be beyond complicated. Would Inara give up her job for Mal? Would Mal find honest work? Attracted as they are to each other, I don't think it'd work and it makes for much better viewing with them always wondering what might be...

They Can't Take The Sky From US!!

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Monday, August 13, 2007 12:42 PM

HUGHFF

IMHO, there's a strong difference between Inara's professional and personal lives and intimacies. That's how she can be so upset by Mal hooking up with Nandi yet not by her own sexual encounters. She isn't puritanical about sex but she knows Mal is, therefore she recognises that his actions are of considerable significance. Of course, there is then the issue of how she can expect to have a relationship with him when he disapproves of his profession. That, I think, is why she can't hook up with him.

www.cpfc.org - my life
www.nbhs.school.nz - my work

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Monday, August 13, 2007 12:57 PM

WYTCHCROFT

"
Mal says some pretty funny/nasty things directly to Inara probably for his own amusement and because he knows she can handle it. She more often than not hits back with equally witty comments of her own."

- probably for his own amusement???

i think more likely as a defence, to keep a distance there, an armour. Inara does the same - although more subtly. they both seem afraid at times of the obvious sympathy/understanding/attraction between them - yet neither one is willing to risk the others dismissal of them.

there are many potential scenarious between them that could be explored. but in terms of the show on tv? a high risk of the 'Moonlighting' factor if they actually got together and the friction was lost...

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Wednesday, August 15, 2007 1:11 PM

SCHOOLBOYSWINK

O.K. Inara and Mal. Having in the past minutes written and deleted two in depth analyses that would have filled entire tomes, I'm going to try once more to stab straight to the heart of it.

Mal loves Inara, and he tries to hold her at arms' length because he is afraid to fall in love.

Inara loves Mal, and she tries to hold him at arms' length because she is afraid to fall in love.

(The reasons why they are afraid to fall in love, both the obvious ones and my opinions about some more tenuous ones, were left on the cutting room floor.)

Inara sees right through Mal. She also thinks that Mal sees right through her, and is waiting, vulnerable, for him to make the first move. Clients worship Companions, probably take the lead from them. What she respects in Mal is the opposite of that attitude, that he loves her as a person and not a trophy. She wants him to come to her, to take the lead, and to let her be sure that she's right so she can stop feeling vulnerable about his feelings. ("Just tell me.")

O.K... Here's where the conlict comes in: Mal DOESN'T see right through her. Inara has done her job to well (and maybe the fact that she is an Alliance type had sowed enough distrust in the first place), so he has NO idea that he is supposed to make a move. ("None of it means a damn thing.")

So, every time they start to get close, Inara walks away to see if Mal will finally follow her, and Mal just stands there with a vacant look on his face like Simon in a mutated-cow-in-a-tube tent.

That's how I see it, and that's as small of a nutshell as I can make it.

"When you can't do somethin' smart, do somethin' right!" -Jayne Cobb quotes Shepherd Book

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Wednesday, August 15, 2007 2:32 PM

Thanks for your great insights Schoolboy...based on what you wrote I almost wish you had posted your "doctorate" here. Great stuff!

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Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:16 PM

NCBROWNCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by wytchcroft:
"
Mal says some pretty funny/nasty things directly to Inara probably for his own amusement and because he knows she can handle it. She more often than not hits back with equally witty comments of her own."

- probably for his own amusement???

i think more likely as a defence, to keep a distance there, an armour. Inara does the same - although more subtly. they both seem afraid at times of the obvious sympathy/understanding/attraction between them - yet neither one is willing to risk the others dismissal of them.

there are many potential scenarious between them that could be explored. but in terms of the show on tv? a high risk of the 'Moonlighting' factor if they actually got together and the friction was lost...

Why did you have to bring up "Moonlighting"? Perfect romantic tension until....they got together. It was handled so amateurishly that I could have done it better. And I cannot write witty repartee.

I don't think that Mal and Inara could ever lose all of the friction between them. There would always be something that puts up a barrier between them. It's just in their natures.

http://fireflyfaninnc.livejournal.com/

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Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:20 PM

I always saw the thing between them as true to life. Two working professionals both with a past regardless of sparks will defiantly find it hard to meet in the middle. They have a hard enough time relating and connecting with folks who either don't understand them or believe they understand. The problems are tenfold for folks who are capable of seeing around the bullshit and even worse when one is willing to call BS on the other.

And my theory still stands firm on one thing: Sure Inara is jealous of Nandy knockin' the boots with Mal. But I think Inara kinda had it in her head to spend her evening with Nandy rather than plat midwife. They had a clear and defined friendship that might have had an equal or greater amount of time and emotion invested to that of the feelings for Malcolm.

That whole thing in itself is all too real. The usual circle jerk associated with love and it's feelings between folks.

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Monday, August 20, 2007 12:10 PM

SCHOOLBOYSWINK

Quote:
Originally posted by nvghostrider:
And my theory still stands firm on one thing: Sure Inara is jealous of Nandy knockin' the boots with Mal. But I think Inara kinda had it in her head to spend her evening with Nandy rather than plat midwife. They had a clear and defined friendship that might have had an equal or greater amount of time and emotion invested to that of the feelings for Malcolm.

Glad you brought this up, Ghost. It was something cut from my original aforementioned tomes that I can now bring to light.

When Inara breaks down over Nandi and Mal, I don't think it is as simple as jealousy for either of them. Again, she has the Companion training; she knows Mal loves her (or if not love then at least he cares for her and has romantic notions where she is concerned), and she knows Mal would rather it had been her than Nandi. She knows there is no reason for them ever to come back to this rock, knows she hasnt' lost Mal to Nandi. I think what happened between Nandi and Mal made Inara realize that it really could have been her, threw into stark relief how much she wanted him. This brought pain at all the missed opportunities, but more importantly whatever beginnings of jealousy she did feel made her realize how much she loved him, how much she wished she could have him, and devastated her to realize that (for whatever reasons in her own psyche and/or past) she could not allow herself to be with him even as she realized she could no longer hold him at bay. Hence she then decides to leave the ship and tells Mal about it before he can fully voice his feelings, since she knows if she ever hears it straight from his lips that she can't resist it, and it will disintegrate the person she has been taught to be, has convinced herself that she really is. Obviously, a part of her actually wants this, though a part of her does not. Hence at the end of BDM she tells Mal that even then she doesn't know what she wants to do or where she wants to be. Mal of course tells her this is a good answer, his response being both prophetic about their future and recalling of the Pilot episode's discussion about Mal being lost in the woods and liking it that way.

"When you can't do somethin' smart, do somethin' right!" -Jayne Cobb quotes Shepherd Book

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Monday, August 20, 2007 12:44 PM

I pretty much took it as Inara being lost to herself and her profession. She probably doen't remember any hopes or dreams she ever had. If she does then they are passing thoughts, set aside for the sake of masking her reality. She is not fulfilled by her work. She has no known personal life. She lives for her profession. But I think that's why she likes to help in certain situations. It gives her something other than work to do.
And how long has she gone without sex that was her own. Love that was whole and true. An experience that spiritual and purely loving that she could call her own. There's no telling. Sometimes folks need that release. They need to feel safe and wanted as a person and not an object of desire, but a partner in love. Maybe she never felt that and longs for the missing pieces that she never knew. Her and Mal compliment eachother. For his missing pieces keep him from being whole and true. They are drawn to eachother and have the least amount of chance at being whole and true together. But they can help regulate eachother enough to get by.

All this sounds way too familiar to me. I think I need a break from the Mal/Inara discussions for a bit.

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Monday, August 20, 2007 1:06 PM

PLATONIST

good analysis of M/I
re:especially what got left on the cutting room floor

I never knew what to make of "I don't know" and "good answer", but I liked what you said about them BOTH just not KNOWING how they felt and being afraid to love...really not that uncommon.

and IMHO these 5 words are probably the most honest words they've ever spoken to each other. The smile they share at that moment is priceless.

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Monday, August 20, 2007 1:11 PM

Faults in the human heart. Just a personal observation that seems way too close for comfort right now.

Goodnight folks.

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Monday, August 20, 2007 1:12 PM

You can't actually know that.

For all we know all she ever wanted was to be a companion.

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Monday, August 20, 2007 1:24 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Women are intrigued by, but don't necessarily fall in love with, guys who don't pay them much attention. Or at least not in the manner they're accustomed to being treated. I think she realizes Mal isn't the hayseed captain some might be led to believe. Mal has a mysterious side to him that Inara can't quite figure out, and as one skilled in reading the male of the species, I think she finds that refreshing.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Monday, August 20, 2007 1:29 PM

PLATONIST

OK, this got muddled with everyone posting at once. Are you referring to her job satisfaction? , nbz

Yeah, I don't know how she feels about that either.

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Monday, August 20, 2007 1:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by PLATONIST:

OK, this got muddled with every posting at once. Are you referring to her job satisfaction? , nbz

Yeah, I don't know how she feels about that either.

yeah it got confused in there. Should have been careful and quoted. It was to:

Quote:
Originally posted by nvghostrider:

I pretty much took it as Inara being lost to herself and her profession. She probably doesn't remember any hopes or dreams she ever had. If she does then they are passing thoughts, set aside for the sake of masking her reality. She is not fulfilled by her work.

My reply:

Quote:
You can't actually know that.

For all we know all she ever wanted was to be a companion.

The only hint we get of any unhappiness is the Pilot when she looks away when talking about Sinhon to her client.

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Monday, August 20, 2007 2:53 PM

I think she also seemed unhappy with her profession in Shindig when Atherton made that remark about every man at the ball wishing to be in her bed.

May have been on the losing side, still not convinced it was the wrong one.

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Monday, August 20, 2007 4:24 PM

It was more at the remark than her Job. As it was more about Sinhon than her job again in the Pilot.

Can't really be definitive (as I am not joss), but I would say it had very little to do with her job, which she is probably pretty proud of. The Guild has given it religious iconography.

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Monday, August 20, 2007 5:36 PM

Maybe, but my guess is that Atherton made the remark because of her job.

May have been on the losing side, still not convinced it was the wrong one.

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Monday, August 20, 2007 7:15 PM

Sorry 'bout that nbz. I should added or headed with a IMHO or it seems to me. I also shoulda said that she may not be happy with the way her profession clashes with her personal life. I don't think we ever really get a view of her personal life. It seems she is all buisness with the exception of her dealings with Mal. Sure she has her differing dynamics with her "friends" on the ship, but there always seems to be a wall.
And of course she can see the importance of her calling. She helps others achieve the spiritual connection in an act natural to humans. It is also admirable that she is able to help others recognize the achievement of a great sexual experience. Sure there are probably regular customers. But there are probably many amongst them who have achieved greater interpersonal relationships because of her coaching. That is a sevice beyond pay and pleasure.

Like I said though. I needed a break from speculating on the Mal/Inara thing. Still too close to home.

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Tuesday, August 21, 2007 12:05 PM

SCHOOLBOYSWINK

Quote:
Originally posted by nbz:
You can't actually know that.

For all we know all she ever wanted was to be a companion.

Something else that I edited out earlier for space:

I believe Inara is proud of being a Companion, but not the purely sexual aspects of it. My proof:

The first thing we see Inara doing is 'entertaining' a client. He offers to 'take her away from all this', but later comments that 'You probably speed up your clocks to cheat us out of our fun.' This showed no class on his part, but his reference to 'fun' indicates that for him, the whole experience, even his offer to keep her there, was about sex. (The other parts of the union between them might have been rewarding or fulfilling, but you wouldn't call them 'fun.') When a Client contracts with a Companion, his (or her) primary motivation is typically going to be the physical and not the emotional or spiritual. No matter how much the Companion tries to make the experience about something nobler, this founding motivation on the part of the Client inherently devalues the Companion as a complete human being.

Now, the next thing we see Inara do (there may be one short scene between, but I'm thinking it is pretty much the very next thing) is bathing herself. In film/lit (at least in my experience), deliberately showing a character bathing alone after sex is almost always to symbolize them trying to 'wash it off', a symbol so old that I don't think even someone as creative as Joss would intend for his audience to take it any other way. (And no rebuttals based on the technical details of Companions practicing good hygiene. From minute one Firefly has never been about technical details; this scene is here for a reason, an emotional one.)

Also, Inara is a pragmatic person; she knows that she has sex for money and that this is the literal definition of a whore. Yet she objects to that term with a vehemence that indicates an extreme sensitivity. Why? Because 'whore' ignores all the parts of being a Companion which DON'T have to do with sex and focuses only on the carnal aspect.

Hence do I estimate that Inara does not like her profession, at least not the sexual part of it. Even if all she ever wanted to be was a Companion, that doesn't mean she liked what she found when she got there.

I believe for her, being a Companion has become like a shield, protecting something about herself that she does not like or finds unworthy of love. Like her or hate her, she figures, it's the job you are responding to and not HER. But Mal hates her job, of which he makes no secret, and yet he still cares deeply for her, which Inara can clearly see, and which I believe he does show in his own way. By this disparity Inara realizes that her shield has not worked a whit on Mal, which scares her. This fear is a big part of what makes her want to keep him distant, I think.

"When you can't do somethin' smart, do somethin' right!" -Jayne Cobb quotes Shepherd Book

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Saturday, August 25, 2007 8:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SchoolboysWink:

I believe Inara is proud of being a Companion, but not the purely sexual aspects of it. My proof:
(*snip*)
Now, the next thing we see Inara do (there may be one short scene between, but I'm thinking it is pretty much the very next thing) is bathing herself. In film/lit (at least in my experience), deliberately showing a character bathing alone after sex is almost always to symbolize them trying to 'wash it off', a symbol so old that I don't think even someone as creative as Joss would intend for his audience to take it any other way.
(*snip*)
Hence do I estimate that Inara does not like her profession, at least not the sexual part of it.

In the commentary, Joss mentions that she bathes because she had been insulted. Twice, by her client and by Mal.

An insult is a thing that stands on its own, and while both were directed at her profession, it does not necessarily mean that her discomfort stems from her profession. It could just as easily stem from other people's attitudes about something she believes in strongly.

Also: Every client we see with her is, like Mal, not from a Core society. Persephone has its rich, but it's far from Core standard, and attitudes compared to the central worlds might be very different. We never see a Core world dweller, aside from Simon, react to Inara, so we cannot judge on the way her job would work in the world she is more familiar with.

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Saturday, August 25, 2007 11:06 AM

No offense to Joss, but - Inara bathes because she's been insulted. Boy, is that weak. It certainly gives other people a lot of power over her personal hygiene. With the kind of nasty banter Inara and Mal engage in, not to mention the occasional shots taken at her by clients, she must spend a lot of time with her sponge.

May have been on the losing side, still not convinced it was the wrong one.

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Saturday, August 25, 2007 11:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hoperules:
No offense to Joss, but - Inara bathes because she's been insulted. Boy, is that weak. It certainly gives other people a lot of power over her personal hygiene. With the kind of nasty banter Inara and Mal engage in, not to mention the occasional shots taken at her by clients, she must spend a lot of time with her sponge.

May have been on the losing side, still not convinced it was the wrong one.

It's more symbolic. And because they wanted to film that scene. Twice.

Serenity was the pilot. Things had to be a little more spelled out than normal. It was still far more intelligent than most TV though. (only line that I dislike is the Zoe one when they are laughing at the prank on Simon by Mal "So she really is ok?". It felt too much like "The audience is dumb. We need to tell them it was a joke" to me.)

EDIT - sorry just noticed that the latter part of my post is totally offtopic. Sorry.

Back to Inara, we don't really know if she would be treated much differently on a core world than she was by high society on Persephone. There is the potential for a little resentment in there.

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Saturday, August 25, 2007 4:50 PM

MOBBEX

Quote:
]It's more symbolic. And because they wanted to film that scene. Twice.

Thrice, actually

"Not learning theory is like saying i don't want to communicate with people,
I'll just rub my penis all over their faces." ----John Frusciante ~~~> Lol...

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Saturday, August 25, 2007 5:43 PM

THEHEROOFWILLIAMTOWN

I always saw it this way

Mal: Still very messed up after the war just finds it hard to connect beyond the immediate crew members. Inara is to him someone he can respect even though he doesn't like her job. Being a man that respects someone's freedom he wont ask her to quit her job despite the fact that it is the only way he would be with her. Thus he tends to be a royal pain to distance himself.

Inara: Is a companion and as stated by people earlier is proud of it. She has feelings for Mal but doesn't want the complications that go along with it. There is the one factor that plays in my mind and that her reluctance to get involved with Mal stems from or has something to do with her leaving Sihnon. Of course this can never be found out unless joss spills the beans, but i don't see that happening as there is still a good chance at another movie so he can't let the material go.

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Sunday, August 26, 2007 2:38 AM

Possible.

The reason them two even get close is that she is not crew. He probably used her shuttle to hide a lot from the crew. Her as a sounding off board. You know after he made a decision no-one was happy with. Couldn't show weakness in front of crew as that will have greater chance of mutiny.

At the end of HoG though, Mal was not too bothered by her being a companion. I don't think it is as much of an issue to him as it is to us in our current world.

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Sunday, August 26, 2007 6:00 AM

PLATONIST

Good point about Inara Not being crew in Mal's eyes, nbz.

I always saw their relationship as seperate to both of their roles, in their worlds. It is almost an escape from the stress of wearing the Captain hat and the Companion hat. That's why we see the vid moment in his bunk. That's what he is missing, the outsiders opinion.

And I think Mal especially wants to keep Inara away from his not so savory business dealings.

I even think that may be one of the reasons he lets her go when she leaves the ship, to keep her safe.
But, then of course the Operative finds her...

Inara crew, no way ever, Mal won't have a shipboard romance with a crew member, a lover or life partner that is on the ship, yes, that may or may not help out once in a while.

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Tuesday, August 28, 2007 5:41 AM

2X2

I agree with EmpireX... it really is interesting to see how differently we all interpret the same scenes. :o)

So, here's my interpretation.

At this point, in OiS, both Mal and Inara know that they each have feelings of some sort for each other. Mal found out in HoG - Nandi's little line about how he hadn't told her about Inara's feelings for him, big sudden eye-opener for Mal. And then in the final scene of HoG, Inara pretty much admits/confirms it with her talk of living with love and getting tied to it and not wanting to leave, when Mal is on the verge of laying his feelings out on the table (not that Inara didn't already know). So they both know that there are feelings there.

When he touches her lip out of such obvious concern, I think it does shock Inara - he's not supposed to touch her like that, she can't *let* him touch her like that - and there's this exchange between them as their eyes meet, a little discussion like "what are you doing? you can't do that" from Inara and then I've always read an 'apology' in the way Mal takes his hand away, a sort of "sorry, forgot" kind of thing.
Then Inara pulls away, not because she's being rude or even rebuffing him, but because she has to get away from him herself, because that kind of caring and compassion - coming from Mal - has the potential to ... break her, undo her, shatter her control, what have you... the potential to make her give in and stay even though she knows that to remain who she is (at that moment) she needs to leave Serenity...

~2x2~

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Tuesday, August 28, 2007 7:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 2x2:]I agree with EmpireX... it really is interesting to see how differently we all interpret the same scenes. :o)

So, here's my interpretation.

At this point, in OiS, both Mal and Inara know that they each have feelings of some sort for each other. Mal found out in HoG - Nandi's little line about how he hadn't told her about Inara's feelings for him, big sudden eye-opener for Mal. And then in the final scene of HoG, Inara pretty much admits/confirms it with her talk of living with love and getting tied to it and not wanting to leave, when Mal is on the verge of laying his feelings out on the table (not that Inara didn't already know). So they both know that there are feelings there.

When he touches her lip out of such obvious concern, I think it does shock Inara - he's not supposed to touch her like that, she can't *let* him touch her like that - and there's this exchange between them as their eyes meet, a little discussion like "what are you doing? you can't do that" from Inara and then I've always read an 'apology' in the way Mal takes his hand away, a sort of "sorry, forgot" kind of thing.
Then Inara pulls away, not because she's being rude or even rebuffing him, but because she has to get away from him herself, because that kind of caring and compassion - coming from Mal - has the potential to ... break her, undo her, shatter her control, what have you... the potential to make her give in and stay even though she knows that to remain who she is (at that moment) she needs to leave Serenity...

Not the same Inara we saw at the end of Our Mrs. Reynolds......when she admits with a quivering voice to Mal that she didn't hit her head, she is totally un-guarded at that moment and ready to be swept off her feet by the man she loves....but alas not to be. Watching that scene time and again is both very sad and funny at the same time.

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Tuesday, August 28, 2007 8:30 AM

2X2

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Not the same Inara we saw at the end of Our Mrs. Reynolds......when she admits with a quivering voice to Mal that she didn't hit her head, she is totally un-guarded at that moment and ready to be swept off her feet by the man she loves....but alas not to be. Watching that scene time and again is both very sad and funny at the same time.

No, but quite some time has passed by OiS, enough for Inara to 'regroup', if you will, rationalize why it's better that Mal hadn't figured out the truth...

But yes, in that moment, Inara was ready to admit it and see where it would take her. I don't think Mal has any idea what kind of opportunity he missed right there!!! :oD

~2x2~

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Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 2x2:
... a little discussion like "what are you doing? you can't do that" from Inara and then I've always read an 'apology' in the way Mal takes his hand away, a sort of "sorry, forgot" kind of thing.

Such a perfect description! Or at least, that's how I see it!

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hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ncbrowncoat:
Quote:
Originally posted by wytchcroft:
there are many potential scenarious between them that could be explored. but in terms of the show on tv? a high risk of the 'Moonlighting' factor if they actually got together and the friction was lost...
Why did you have to bring up "Moonlighting"? Perfect romantic tension until....they got together.

OK, how weird... I brought up that show on another thread a week after you guys posted this - but I hadn't seen this, I swear!

It's just so apt. I think it would be very hard to have Mal and Inara together and keep up the entertainment factor. They're so good for snark and tension, just like Cybil and Bruce (I forget hte character names!)

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Tuesday, August 28, 2007 10:09 AM

2X2

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
Such a perfect description! Or at least, that's how I see it!

:oD I'm glad I'm not the only one!

~2x2~

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Tuesday, August 28, 2007 10:56 AM

The trick is to keep a couple interesting even when the crutch of unresolved sexual tension is gone. Most screen writers and actors can't seem to pull it off.

May have been on the losing side, still not convinced it was the wrong one.

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Sunday, September 2, 2007 7:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
I think it would be very hard to have Mal and Inara together and keep up the entertainment factor. They're so good for snark and tension, just like Cybil and Bruce (I forget hte character names!)

Aww, are you sure? Because I can think of a lot of scenarios that have them a couple with lots of tension and conflict.

Mal still has issues about their different class backgrounds and his own personal ability to be happy, about where he wants to go in life...

Inara still has her secrets, she has intimacy issues that wouldn't go away for a while, she has a profession that she loves that is incompatible with Mal's idea of a relationship...

Their world views would continue to be different, their tendency to withold information would likely be slow to change, the way they handle conflict would be a source of conflict all by itself..

Tons of stuff to explore even when sex isn't in there.

The idea that unresolved sexual tension is the dealbreaker is very sad and untrue and disrespectful to the nature of relationships.

Zoe and Wash, after all, also don't live off their unresolved sexual tension (there is none) and they are a compelling couple with many issues left undealth with after the movie.

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Sunday, September 2, 2007 8:05 AM

IMO the biggest thing keeping them apart is NOT that she is a whore, he a petty thief. They have both at times looked past that.

IMO It is authority and command. Inara, being a Companion is used to people following her every whim. Mal being a captain like to feel the same way (even if the crew are closer to mutiny).

For that reason I do not ever see them getting together. Well, not as long as Mal has a ship to command.

Can Inara keep schtum on an edict made by Mal which she totally disagrees with? Or will she challenge him openly, undermining his authority? (even if he is wrong).

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Sunday, September 2, 2007 1:24 PM

MOBBEX

You are better at dying
I don't know about Inara being used to people following her every whim. I think she is smart enough to understand that things don't work that way on the raggedy edge. She obviously likes her opinion to have a certain weight on the overall balance of things, but other than threatening to leave, she realy has little to bargain with, and I think she's well aware of that. In my mind, the difference between their respective backgrounds and professions does matter a great deal since it allows them to rationalize their complexes. It's a façade, granted, but it's important. There is authority bithcing going on, no denying, but I don't think it's the heart of the matter. IMHO, it's more about them being unable to surmount their insecurities than anything else.

Oh and back to your question: I'd say that would depend on Mal's state of personal/emotional involvement, or, if you prefer, the relative significance of the concerned matter. I agree that she wouldn't have any scrupules about voicing her disagreement as long as long as injured/endangered crew members or galactic scale cover ups are not involved. On the other hand, I sincerely doubt that she would openly (read: publicly) challenge Mal if he were to get into his "I'm fighting a war" vibe, especially post-BDM. Not that it would matter anyhow...

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Sunday, September 2, 2007 3:59 PM

EMPIREX

Quote:
Originally posted by 2x2:
When he touches her lip out of such obvious concern, I think it does shock Inara - he's not supposed to touch her like that, she can't *let* him touch her like that - and there's this exchange between them as their eyes meet, a little discussion like "what are you doing? you can't do that" from Inara and then I've always read an 'apology' in the way Mal takes his hand away, a sort of "sorry, forgot" kind of thing.

Can I just say how much I love that little hand wave he does? I really wish we'd gotten to see just a little bit more of it and Nathan's facial reaction.

*sigh*

Patsy: When you were two years old, we tied you to the central reservation of a motorway.

Edina: But you were like a homing pidgeon, sweetie....back within a week!

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Sunday, September 2, 2007 4:05 PM

EMPIREX

Quote:
[Not the same Inara we saw at the end of Our Mrs. Reynolds......when she admits with a quivering voice to Mal that she didn't hit her head, she is totally un-guarded at that moment and ready to be swept off her feet by the man she loves....but alas not to be. Watching that scene time and again is both very sad and funny at the same time.

Which is exactly why I wrote a post-ep fic for OMR. Watching that scene drives me stark raving nuts! I'm glad I'm not the only one who gets frustrated watching scene.

Patsy: When you were two years old, we tied you to the central reservation of a motorway.

Edina: But you were like a homing pidgeon, sweetie....back within a week!

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Tuesday, September 4, 2007 7:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by nbz:
IMO the biggest thing keeping them apart is NOT that she is a whore, he a petty thief. They have both at times looked past that.

IMO It is authority and command. Inara, being a Companion is used to people following her every whim. Mal being a captain like to feel the same way (even if the crew are closer to mutiny).

For that reason I do not ever see them getting together. Well, not as long as Mal has a ship to command.

Can Inara keep schtum on an edict made by Mal which she totally disagrees with? Or will she challenge him openly, undermining his authority? (even if he is wrong).

I'll have to disagree there.

Inara isn't used to instant compliance from the people around her, but she demands a respectful treatment. She's not one of Mal's crew and as such not really inclined to follow orders unquestioningly.

Which is precisely the thing that would allow them to have a relationship in the first place. Mal wouldn't have or want a relationship with someone who holds an inferior status compared to him, or acts like it. Being on equal terms allows Mal to be a person rather than a Captain.

Much as it may cause friction and conflict, Inara's tendency to question him is probably something he needs in a partner.

How and where the questioning would take place would probably depend entirely on the situation, though.

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Tuesday, September 4, 2007 8:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
Aww, are you sure? Because I can think of a lot of scenarios that have them a couple with lots of tension and conflict.

I can certainly see Mal and Inara hooking up, but I don't see it reaching the point where they are the forever-together mother and father of Serenity, making babies as they travel about having adventures, etc etc. That bores me. It's like how Disney takes something exotic and cool like a coral reef and turns it into suburbia.

Even if M/I are written as occasionally at odds and having spats, I still can't buy into them as all wedded. Why? Oh jeez, I don't know. Maybe because their worlds are too different. I think a whole lot would have to happen - mostly to Inara. She's so far from being able to settle. I'd need several seasons of experiences and changes in her before I could see her getting into any committment to Mal.

Quote:
The idea that unresolved sexual tension is the dealbreaker is very sad and untrue and disrespectful to the nature of relationships.

Ahh - but I'm not talking about reality here, I'm talking about fiction. In the majority of fiction, sexual tension is often far more entertaining than couple-ness. At least, this is the case with fiction I like.

And it's not a deal breaker. As you say, Wash and Zoe are a happy couple (not unrealistically happy, which is nice) and I love them that way. But I don't see Mal and Inara fitting into that place. Not because sexual tension is the only way, but because there's so many obstacles between them. Wash is pretty much the healithiest person on the ship, and I think that's why it works for him and Zoe. Neither Mal nor Inara are anywhere close to that.

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Tuesday, September 4, 2007 10:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
I can certainly see Mal and Inara hooking up, but I don't see it reaching the point where they are the forever-together mother and father of Serenity, making babies as they travel about having adventures, etc etc. That bores me. It's like how Disney takes something exotic and cool like a coral reef and turns it into suburbia.

I'm glad we can agree on that. ;) I don't see the making of many babies. In fact, the very idea of any babies is a huge mountain of conflict right there. But I see no reason why this conflict could not take place within a relationship.

Quote:

Even if M/I are written as occasionally at odds and having spats, I still can't buy into them as all wedded. Why? Oh jeez, I don't know. Maybe because their worlds are too different. I think a whole lot would have to happen - mostly to Inara. She's so far from being able to settle. I'd need several seasons of experiences and changes in her before I could see her getting into any committment to Mal.

The way I see it, after the movie those two are both at a point of uncertainty and just about messed up enough to jump into something that most people would agree might be unhealthy.

That's the sort of thing I can imagine would be really interesting to watch. The unthinking attempt that makes them both miserable but also forces them to work through certain things.

Honestly, I'm sure it would get boring to watch them go through the entirety of the first half season's complex arc again in three more seasons just to keep the "will they/ won't they" sex factor alive.

Quote:

Quote:
The idea that unresolved sexual tension is the dealbreaker is very sad and untrue and disrespectful to the nature of relationships.
Ahh - but I'm not talking about reality here, I'm talking about fiction. In the majority of fiction, sexual tension is often far more entertaining than couple-ness. At least, this is the case with fiction I like.

I guess we'll just have to agree on different tastes then. :) To me, sex is just one stage among many interesting ones in fiction. *sigh*

Quote:
Wash is pretty much the healithiest person on the ship, and I think that's why it works for him and Zoe. Neither Mal nor Inara are anywhere close to that.

But isn't that what would make it interesting? :D The mess of it, the fighting, the confusion, the substituting sex for communication or the rare moments when they get a step right and can build on that...

I'm not talking healthy relationship right from the start at all. I don't want Wash/Zoe II. I want Mal/Inara having sex, basically, and STILL dealing with all the issues between them.

But yes, anyways, when I'm in charge of the universe, maybe it'll happen. Until then, we're all free to disagree, hehehe.

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Tuesday, September 4, 2007 10:05 AM

WYTCHCROFT

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:

The way I see it, after the movie

Wash is pretty much the healithiest person on the ship, and I think that's why it works for him and Zoe. Neither Mal nor Inara are anywhere close to that.

hello... dead.
can we get back to the part where i'm
DEAD.

love 'healthy' Wash.

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Tuesday, September 4, 2007 10:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by wytchcroft:
hello... dead.
can we get back to the part where I'm
DEAD.

I thought dead men didn't speak hmmm?

AR: Mal and Inara having sex and trying to co-exist and figure out what the hell the sex means... that I can see just fine! It's the hand-holding and being in love and Moonlighting thing of: "ok, now we've admitted we're dear to each other and that changes everything!" that I don't like. It can become the love boat in space.

Which - referring to the Rayne thread - I won't say this must never happen in fic. I'm just not interested in it myself.

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Thursday, September 6, 2007 4:59 AM