GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Firefly Timeline

POSTED BY: ALMANAC
UPDATED: Sunday, April 16, 2017 12:12
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Friday, February 20, 2009 8:18 AM

ALMANAC


This is meant to be a mirror of my original threads on other boards, as well as a place where I can mention updates to my work here without distracting from other posts...

For those of you who want to further familiarise yourselves with the universe of Firefly and Serenity, I invite you to have a look at my Firefly Timeline:

http://www.mts.net/~arphaxad/firefly.html

I wanted to have a timeline on the Web with as little speculation as possible, so you'll notice that all of the entries are annotated, no matter what source(s) I used to come up with the entry and/or its date of occurrence.

As the timeline is currently (still!) a work in progress, I also realise that there is some information missing. Nevertheless, I'm eager to know what everyone thinks about it thus far, especially if you have your own thoughts on dating the series/movie.

If you do disagree with one or more of the dates I've provided, feel free to provide alternative possibilities, but please cite the source(s) you're using--an episode of the series, an interview, or whatever--as long as it holds some canonical status. It's not enough to say, "I remember so-and-so saying this," as I want to be able to refer to it specifically.

Anyone from Mutant Enemy or Fox/Universal, or the cast/crew in general, who might be reading this are eagerly invited to take a look for themselves--for continuity purposes, or just to tell me all of the things I'm wrong about. I'm happy to do whatever I can to help keep the history of the 'verse as consistent as possible...

I'll bump this thread periodically, whenever I do a significant update to the timeline, and to encourage discussion of any and all timeline-related issues that come up in the series and movie.

In order to prevent a lot of rehashing, though, I'll provide some links to existing threads here, as I don't want to simply repeat various discussions that have already taken place elsewhere on the site...

For a long time, I was piggybacking on this (much more speculative) thread about the 'verse and its history:

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=2&t=3267

Old announcements concerning the Firefly Timeline are there, so feel free to have a look.

JewelStaiteFan has also been posting his own interpretations of the timeline for the main events in the series, based on some differences in methodology:

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=4&t=32184
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=4&t=36140

That should get everyone started, I think...

Either way, I look forward to hearing more from my fellow Browncoats.

Edgar Governo
Historian of Things That Never Were
http://www.mts.net/~arphaxad/history.html

Visit the Browncoat Saloon:
http://www.myspace.com/browncoatsaloon

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Sunday, February 22, 2009 8:27 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


I am interested in seeing the progress of this process.
I had gotten the impression from the timeline I had seen that you had added timeline info as the series progressed, and then more after the DVDs were released.
After all that, more was added after BDM came out. It seemed that the info which had already gelled from the series ended up with more weighted validity than some of the newer data from BDM, even if they conflicted.
I had tried to give equal weight to all the data available - that I could find. for instance, when Mal and Operative (in script) state River has been aboard 8 months in BDM, and River is the same age as she was in the cryo-box, that all seemed to reinforce each other - and when other series data added up to being more than a year of Verse time, I conjured the 3 corroberating data might have greater validity than the disparate pieces of data which added together conflicted.


You posted links to 2 versions of the timeline I worked out, based upon 2 different assumptions. I tried to keep the posts as minimal as possible, to keep it readable and fairly clear in this format. Most cites were not included in these posts, unless brief. Better cites and more detailed info was in the discussion thread leading up to those, and that thread is:

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=4&t=31980

I would not be surprised if I missed some explanations, or if they are not clear. I would be happy to clarify any assumptions I made, if confusing points are pointed out. I also assume I made some mistakes, and would like to clarify them as well when found.

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Sunday, February 22, 2009 8:55 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


I have recently read that Derrial Book was the name of a man our "Book" had killed, and he took the identity. It also metnioned his eralier name. I do not recall where it was posted, but somewhere here. I twas sourced as from and interview with Ron Glass, IIRC. Perhaps somebody could expand on that.

edit: it is in thread 36950 in the Episode forum.

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Monday, February 23, 2009 11:30 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Serenity bluray has an Alliance database. List Mal's dob as 20 Sep 2468 (apparently a joke regarding soembody in the props dept born 20 Sep 1968) - is Mal really 49 in the show? Also Zoe dob 15 Feb 2484, Inara 14 Oct 2489, Kaylee 2 Jul 2497 location Kowlonshi, Simon Nov 2490, and River at the academy 2515-2517.

Maybe Kowlonshi and Kowlon Fed Base are different ways of saying the same place.

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Monday, February 23, 2009 11:43 PM

ALMANAC


Quote:

Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
I am interested in seeing the progress of this process.


Thanks!

As I said, some of my historiography has been spelled out before in other places, but I'll try to address some of what you're talking about...

Quote:

I had gotten the impression from the timeline I had seen that you had added timeline info as the series progressed, and then more after the DVDs were released.
After all that, more was added after BDM came out.


That's not too far off...

I had a very preliminary timeline worked out whilst the series was still on the air, but the episodes were airing out of order. I tried to ask about the 'verse and its history on the Fox site when there were still production staff there on a regular basis, but I got no response.

After the show was cancelled and the episodes' production order was well-known, I started working from my tapes of the series, and the timeline was first publicly uploaded before the DVD set was released.

I kept adding more and more detail to the timeline from what was available, which expanded with "Those Left Behind," the "R. Tam Sessions," and (of course) the movie; and has continued to expand with "Better Days," "The Other Half," and so forth...

Quote:

It seemed that the info which had already gelled from the series ended up with more weighted validity than some of the newer data from BDM, even if they conflicted.

I'll admit that, since I only had the series to begin with and had worked out its main kinks before the movie was even filmed, I have tended to be more likely at times to think of Serenity as the outlier when there's a serious conflict.

However, I don't do so as much as you might think, and your example kind of proves my point:

Quote:

I had tried to give equal weight to all the data available - that I could find. for instance, when Mal and Operative (in script) state River has been aboard 8 months in BDM, and River is the same age as she was in the cryo-box, that all seemed to reinforce each other - and when other series data added up to being more than a year of Verse time, I conjured the 3 corroberating data might have greater validity than the disparate pieces of data which added together conflicted.

If you look at how I've ordered my list of sources at the top of the Firefly Timeline, you can get a sense of my general "canon hierarchy," but I do struggle with trying my best to give equal weight to different sources...

In this case, you've given equal weight to one source from the movie and two sources from different scripts. If you were looking at this from a canon purist's point-of-view, though, there would only be two onscreen (and contradictory) references to River's age--Simon's description in the movie and Harken's pointed reference to "adult siblings" in "Bushwhacked."

When everything agrees, great. When it doesn't, I'm always going to give an onscreen reference more weight than a script reference--but these two onscreen references don't agree, so I actually deferred to the movie...even though it was an enormous pain to shift virtually everything related to Simon and River forward by one year to accommodate River's "new" age.

You're right, however, that I did that instead of squeezing the events of the series to accommodate the "eight months" reference, because I (personally) felt it better to leave only the one contradiction (that reference) rather than try to rationalise away multiple references from the series.

In other words, yes, I did brush aside that particular statement, but you'd be surprised at how much else I moved around to fit with all of the other references in the film.

Quote:

You posted links to 2 versions of the timeline I worked out, based upon 2 different assumptions. I tried to keep the posts as minimal as possible, to keep it readable and fairly clear in this format. Most cites were not included in these posts, unless brief. Better cites and more detailed info was in the discussion thread leading up to those, and that thread is:

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=4&t=31980



Cool, thanks for posting the additional thread link here.

Edgar Governo
Historian of Things That Never Were
http://www.mts.net/~arphaxad/history.html

Visit the Browncoat Saloon:
http://www.myspace.com/browncoatsaloon

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Monday, February 23, 2009 11:58 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


One question I would ask is how do you figure Simon would say he and River have been aboard for 2 months in Safe, if the Pilot was in May and Safe was in October?

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Tuesday, February 24, 2009 12:29 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


I must admit to an unfair advantage of perspective over you. I had the luxury of seeing the whole picture, the full canvas, instead of scrounging for scraps of data piecemeal like you had to. This gives me the proverbial "fresh look" or "new eyes" which I know drastically changes the view.

I read that earlier thread you linked to, but not much of your analysis of central time references was there - must be on another board I haven't seen.

If I wasn't clear about how I went to work on the conflicts, I tried to find how many of the references DID or COULD agree with each other, and tried to see if there were only a few that REALLY conflicted with almost everything else. If several different groups of agreed references were in conflict with one assumption, then I draped suspicion upon the MOST conflicting refernece or assumption.

I know many have discounted the Mal line in BDM about 8 months. If that were the sole reference, I would be less assured it was valid. But BDM script also has Operative saying it was 8 months ago that River escaped the Institute. This is several weeks before Lilac (Mr Universe said several weeks of subliminal Oaty Bar broadwaves), and the escape on Osiris was prior to the Pilot on Persephone - perhaps a few days or a week between escape and Pilot. Also, Pilot script says River-in-the-box is 17, and BDM script says River in BDM is 17 except for the escape scene, where she is 16. Because these 2 scripts are written by Joss, I felt they conveyed what he thought and intended, before time and budget constraints caused him to trim lines from filming. This means that all alone, here are 3 references agreeing with each other, but disagreeing with the "more than 1 year between Pilot and BDM" scenario.

To be clear, I do not intend to convert you to my viewpoint. I do conjure you are trying to make your work the best that YOU want it to be. If my posts, or ideas I have mentioned, help you to explore various viewpoints, and help you to iron out conflicts which you yourself percieve, then I am happy to help out in that way. And you might also help me see things I did not notice before.

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Tuesday, February 24, 2009 1:30 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


You say you ordered them by production sequence once that became known. And then the DVDs came out, rearranging the sequence of episodes - that must have been some work to rearrange the timeline for those last 4 episodes as well.

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Tuesday, February 24, 2009 5:14 PM

ALMANAC


Quote:

Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
I have recently read that Derrial Book was the name of a man our "Book" had killed, and he took the identity. It also metnioned his earlier name. I do not recall where it was posted, but somewhere here. It was sourced as from and interview with Ron Glass, IIRC. Perhaps somebody could expand on that.

edit: it is in thread 36950 in the Episode forum.


Since we've already been told that Book's background will be expanded upon in the next comic book storyline, I haven't bothered trying to incorporate these interview/convention tidbits--they're just incomplete fragments of something which will be revealed in much more detail through an actual upcoming story.

Edgar Governo
Historian of Things That Never Were
http://www.mts.net/~arphaxad/history.html

Visit the Browncoat Saloon:
http://www.myspace.com/browncoatsaloon

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Wednesday, February 25, 2009 3:44 PM

ALMANAC


Quote:

Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Serenity bluray has an Alliance database.


I'd seen that advertised, but wasn't quite sure what it would entail...

Quote:

List Mal's dob as 20 Sep 2468 (apparently a joke regarding soembody in the props dept born 20 Sep 1968)

Does it say that in the database itself?

Quote:

- is Mal really 49 in the show?

I don't think so...but then, the movie shows that as the age for "Malcom" Reynolds, whoever he is.

Quote:

Also Zoe dob 15 Feb 2484,

So far so good.

Quote:

Inara 14 Oct 2489,

I wonder why the makers of the database would want her to be that age...

Quote:

Kaylee 2 Jul 2497 location Kowlonshi,

Matches my timeline again.

"Kowlonshi" is new to me.

Quote:

Simon Nov 2490,

Another match. I'm starting to like this...

Quote:

and River at the academy 2515-2517.

Sounds good to me.

Quote:

Maybe Kowlonshi and Kowlon Fed Base are different ways of saying the same place.

Where is "Kowlon Fed Base" from...?

Unfortunately, I don't currently own a Blu-Ray player.

However, if someone with Blu-Ray access who was reading this thread happened to take screencaps of the Alliance Database and emailed them to me for reference purposes (at the email address listed on the Firefly Timeline), I'd be forever grateful...

Edgar Governo
Historian of Things That Never Were
http://www.mts.net/~arphaxad/history.html

Visit the Browncoat Saloon:
http://www.myspace.com/browncoatsaloon

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Wednesday, February 25, 2009 8:24 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Almanac:
Quote:

Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Serenity bluray has an Alliance database.


I'd seen that advertised, but wasn't quite sure what it would entail...

Quote:

List Mal's dob as 20 Sep 2468 (apparently a joke regarding soembody in the props dept born 20 Sep 1968)

Does it say that in the database itself?


it said the dob, the joke info was what I'd read elsewhere, numerous sources.
Quote:


Quote:

- is Mal really 49 in the show?

I don't think so...but then, the movie shows that as the age for "Malcom" Reynolds, whoever he is.


I would tend to discount Mal being 49. If Nathan, a few years younger than Gina, is playing 49, then Book must be about 100 played by Ron. (120 years is median life expectancy in Joss' verse).
Quote:


Quote:

Also Zoe dob 15 Feb 2484,

So far so good.

Quote:

Inara 14 Oct 2489,

I wonder why the makers of the database would want her to be that age...

Quote:

Kaylee 2 Jul 2497 location Kowlonshi,

Matches my timeline again.

"Kowlonshi" is new to me.

Quote:

Simon Nov 2490,

Another match. I'm starting to like this...

Quote:

and River at the academy 2515-2517.

Sounds good to me.

Quote:

Maybe Kowlonshi and Kowlon Fed Base are different ways of saying the same place.

Where is "Kowlon Fed Base" from...?

Unfortunately, I don't currently own a Blu-Ray player.

However, if someone with Blu-Ray access who was reading this thread happened to take screencaps of the Alliance Database and emailed them to me for reference purposes (at the email address listed on the Firefly Timeline), I'd be forever grateful...

Edgar Governo
Historian of Things That Never Were



I did not have a bluray player, until a few hours after I bought bluray Serenity and then bluray Firefly.

I thought Kowlon Fed Base was where, in Safe, they were to drop off Badger's money from the cattle proceeds - from Jiangyin. Do I recall wrong?

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Wednesday, February 25, 2009 8:29 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


If I understand correctly, the method of validity you use will vary from what I used.
I tried to use a model similar to that of Intelligence networks. Intelligence gathering uses a form of validity scale with 2 parts, at least. One part rates the validity of the source - is that source normally correct, the events revealed do come to pass or are proven to have happened, and is that source in a position to have access to the data. The other part rates the information itself - is it corroberated with other sources, for instance?
In this verse, I also tried to include situational evaluation as well.

For instance, are all our characters of equal validity regarding lines spoken? Are any devious? deceptive? dishonest? hiding? accurate? correct? precise?
I had considered that, when the creator of the Verse specified in script (BDM and Pilot) that River was a specific age, then this was gospel as far as could be determined, absent directly conflicting data - it is not likely this data will ever be shown on screen (with River-in-the-box a subscript appears onscreen stating "River Tam is 17 in this scene" - won't happen.) This apparently would not rate highly on your scale since it does not appear on screen.
On the other hand, lines spoken by characters could be accurate or precise, or vague, and deceptive or forthright, and situationally biased.

For example, consider 3 references from Inara.
In The Train Job, she tells Book she has been aboard 8 months.
In Bushwhacked, she tells Commander Harkin she has been aboard "a few weeks" short of a year.
In Objects in Space, she tells Jubal she has been aboard "a year."
Are all of these lines correct? complete and honest? absolutely precise? without guile? If so, then this tells us that the time from TTJ to BW spans 3 1/2 months, and then the time from BW to OiS spans "a few weeks" - including Shindig, Safe, OMR, Jaynestown, Ariel, WS, (and using the DVD set sequence) Trash, Message, HoG. Is this reasonable?
If that is not reasonable, then does the overview of these 3 lines mean all 3 are invalid? or is one or another less valid than the others?
In TTJ, she is in a casual conversation with Book. Is this an adversarial exchange? doesn't seem so. Is she being deceptive? Not that I can tell. Is she hiding something? perhaps, can't tell.
In Bushwhacked, is she in an adversarial exchange with Commander Harken? Fair to say everybody in their "interview" with Harken is in an adversarial exchange. Does she have something to hide? perhaps. Is she being deceptive? maybe. Is she being forthright and fully honest? not sure.
In OiS, is she in an adversarial exchange with Jubal? Fair to say. Is she being deceptive or dishonest? perhaps, but I think Jubal said that he read her as being truthful, so maybe she is fully forthright despite having no reason to be.
Of these 3, perhaps she her lines are least varnished with Book, and most varnished with Harkin.
Now consider the precision of her lines. Does "8 months" mean 8 months and zero days? Could she mean 7 months and 27 days and still say "8 months" or perhaps 8 months and 3 weeks? I would consider these to be a reasonable "range" of accuracy and precision.
Even if she were fully honest with Harkin, does "a few weeks" short of a year mean exactly 50 weeks? Might she, at her most courteous, have deflected part of his error by diminishing her reply - like if it was really 4 weeks short of a year? If she was essentially agreeing with him, but being deceptive, what was it she was deceptive about, and why is it show in records as inaccurate?
With Jubal, even if she was honest as Jubal thought, does "a year" mean exactly 365 days? Could it have reasonably meant 51 weeks? 60 weeks? 13 months? 14, 15, or 16 months? To say you have done something for "a year" could be verbal shorthand for "at least a year" and could continue to be that shorthand up until, perhaps "a year and a half" or "almost 2 years" wihtou specifying the exact number of days and/or months.
When I evaluated these 3 lines, I considered the exchange with Harkin to be the most suspect, and I was least skeptical about her exchange with Book.

This is just one example of how I viewed the references given us. Hope it helps you understand why and where I felt the references had validity.

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Thursday, February 26, 2009 1:22 PM

ALMANAC


Quote:

Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
One question I would ask is how do you figure Simon would say he and River have been aboard for 2 months in Safe, if the Pilot was in May and Safe was in October?


Easy...he only says that in the script.

It's becoming clear in this thread that there are some fundamental differences in our methodology, including the different weight we give to script-only information and our differing interpretations of "authorial intent."

Since Simon doesn't use the two-month figure in the aired episode, it's easier for me to dismiss that figure--possibly as a leftover artifact of the shift in the schedule for "Safe," which was rewritten to fit in the Young Simon and River flashback.

I'll add a note to the timeline explaining this, though.

Edgar Governo
Historian of Things That Never Were
http://www.mts.net/~arphaxad/history.html

Visit the Browncoat Saloon:
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Saturday, February 28, 2009 7:55 PM

ALMANAC


Quote:

Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
I must admit to an unfair advantage of perspective over you. I had the luxury of seeing the whole picture, the full canvas, instead of scrounging for scraps of data piecemeal like you had to. This gives me the proverbial "fresh look" or "new eyes" which I know drastically changes the view.


This is true enough...

I originally uploaded the Firefly Timeline before there was even a DVD set, so I was trying to get information anywhere I could--which is why you'll see (for example) a number of quotes by Joss Whedon and Tim Minear from Fox's original website for Firefly--but nowadays, with much more official, licenced material to draw from (especially actual stories in the 'verse), I would be reluctant to incorporate something from an interview (or even, say, a prop which doesn't appear clearly onscreen) before turning to a more authoritative source instead.

Having said that, I'm not sure my conclusions would be all that different from what I have, even with a later perspective, for the reasons I'll try to go into now (and already have, to a certain extent).

Quote:

I read that earlier thread you linked to, but not much of your analysis of central time references was there - must be on another board I haven't seen.

A lot of that analysis is in the annotations within the timeline itself, although the back-and-forth of discussion with other Browncoats is spread across multiple boards.

Unfortunately, a lot of that initial talk was on the Universal Board.

Quote:

If I wasn't clear about how I went to work on the conflicts, I tried to find how many of the references DID or COULD agree with each other, and tried to see if there were only a few that REALLY conflicted with almost everything else. If several different groups of agreed references were in conflict with one assumption, then I draped suspicion upon the MOST conflicting reference or assumption.

Well, I think most timeliners use this sort of historiographic method to iron out conflicts in whatever canon(s) they're working with...but then, that is how I arrived at my dates, which seem (to me) to provide the most agreement and the fewest conflicts in references (especially onscreen).

Quote:

I know many have discounted the Mal line in BDM about 8 months. If that were the sole reference, I would be less assured it was valid. But BDM script also has Operative saying it was 8 months ago that River escaped the Institute. This is several weeks before Lilac (Mr Universe said several weeks of subliminal Oaty Bar broadwaves), and the escape on Osiris was prior to the Pilot on Persephone - perhaps a few days or a week between escape and Pilot. Also, Pilot script says River-in-the-box is 17, and BDM script says River in BDM is 17 except for the escape scene, where she is 16. Because these 2 scripts are written by Joss, I felt they conveyed what he thought and intended, before time and budget constraints caused him to trim lines from filming. This means that all alone, here are 3 references agreeing with each other, but disagreeing with the "more than 1 year between Pilot and BDM" scenario.

To me, though, the idea in the film's script that River is 16 when she escapes, but 17 in the movie, reinforces the thought of Serenity as a "Season 2" story in which River is a year older than she was in the pilot, which I also assume takes place soon after the escape (but not in such a way that River turns 17 while in cryo).

In much the same way that the story of the escape itself has changed (what's shown in the movie isn't very similar to what Simon describes in the pilot, though the novelisation by Keith R.A. DeCandido endeavours to iron this out), the timeline of River's age has changed--at least to the extent that Joss Whedon really thinks about these things.

Looking at the other thread you posted, it also feels like some of the explanations are a stretch:

-Inara in "The Train Job?" Well, time flies when you're having fun, so she doesn't really mean eight months.
-Inara in "Bushwhacked?" Well, Harken is just wrong, and she's humouring him.
-Mal in "Trash?" Well, even a brief marriage feels like a drag, so he really means a shorter span of time.

That already seems like a lot of rationalisation just to make "eight months" true, and all three of those rely on assumptions you have to make about the characters which aren't depicted onscreen. By contrast, Mal confuses weeks for months at the beginning of Serenity, so there's a clear precedent for discounting another time reference by the same character within the same story.

Although I'm inclined to put a lot of weight into the stories where Joss Whedon had a more direct hand, it's become clear over time (and not just with Firefly) that he doesn't think about continuity issues this closely, so his own stories can conflict with each other (i.e. I don't assume absolute consistency between his stories because he's shown himself to be inconsistent about these sorts of things elsewhere).

On a more recent note, your reckoning would have to be shifted anyway to account for "Better Days"--which has to take place between "Objects in Space" and "Those Left Behind," putting even more of a squeeze into a potential eight-month timeframe.

Quote:

To be clear, I do not intend to convert you to my viewpoint. I do conjure you are trying to make your work the best that YOU want it to be. If my posts, or ideas I have mentioned, help you to explore various viewpoints, and help you to iron out conflicts which you yourself percieve, then I am happy to help out in that way. And you might also help me see things I did not notice before.

Of course...

Real-life historians and archaeologists have these sorts of disagreements all the time, so it's hardly going to be a surprise that we're in the same boat as those academics.

Edgar Governo
Historian of Things That Never Were
http://www.mts.net/~arphaxad/history.html

Visit the Browncoat Saloon:
http://www.myspace.com/browncoatsaloon

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Sunday, March 1, 2009 11:31 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Almanac:
Quote:

Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
One question I would ask is how do you figure Simon would say he and River have been aboard for 2 months in Safe, if the Pilot was in May and Safe was in October?


Easy...he only says that in the script.


Edgar Governo
Historian of Things That Never Were
http://www.mts.net/~arphaxad/history.html




Ooooh. Thanks. I had thought I remembered that from the show. I'm gonna review that. If not aired, I agree with your point.

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Sunday, March 1, 2009 11:59 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Almanac:



Quote:

I know many have discounted the Mal line in BDM about 8 months. If that were the sole reference, I would be less assured it was valid. But BDM script also has Operative saying it was 8 months ago that River escaped the Institute. This is several weeks before Lilac (Mr Universe said several weeks of subliminal Oaty Bar broadwaves), and the escape on Osiris was prior to the Pilot on Persephone - perhaps a few days or a week between escape and Pilot. Also, Pilot script says River-in-the-box is 17, and BDM script says River in BDM is 17 except for the escape scene, where she is 16. Because these 2 scripts are written by Joss, I felt they conveyed what he thought and intended, before time and budget constraints caused him to trim lines from filming. This means that all alone, here are 3 references agreeing with each other, but disagreeing with the "more than 1 year between Pilot and BDM" scenario.

To me, though, the idea in the film's script that River is 16 when she escapes, but 17 in the movie, reinforces the thought of Serenity as a "Season 2" story in which River is a year older than she was in the pilot, which I also assume takes place soon after the escape (but not in such a way that River turns 17 while in cryo).

In much the same way that the story of the escape itself has changed (what's shown in the movie isn't very similar to what Simon describes in the pilot, though the novelisation by Keith R.A. DeCandido endeavours to iron this out), the timeline of River's age has changed--at least to the extent that Joss Whedon really thinks about these things.

Looking at the other thread you posted, it also feels like some of the explanations are a stretch:

-Inara in "The Train Job?" Well, time flies when you're having fun, so she doesn't really mean eight months.
-Inara in "Bushwhacked?" Well, Harken is just wrong, and she's humouring him.
-Mal in "Trash?" Well, even a brief marriage feels like a drag, so he really means a shorter span of time.

That already seems like a lot of rationalisation just to make "eight months" true, and all three of those rely on assumptions you have to make about the characters which aren't depicted onscreen. By contrast, Mal confuses weeks for months at the beginning of Serenity, so there's a clear precedent for discounting another time reference by the same character within the same story.


Can you specify? I don't recall or understand this weeks/months issue? Is this Pilot or BDM?

If I understand, you are taking Mal's "half year" as precisely 183 days +/- a few days, without corroberation, but his "8 months" is discounted (meaning 13-15 months), although corroberated in script by The Operative?

I'm wondering your thoughts about what's betwixt Kaylee's nethers about a year before Lilac, after Simon has boarded?

Haven't gotten Batter Days - how much time does it span?

Regarding the Stretches you mentioned, I think during the early discussion I suggested these were potential points of inaccuracy. I think I conjured that Inara was aboard between 8 months and 9 months in TTJ, which would have casual conversational shorthand as "8 months" - and that seemed to fit with all the other data available.
I am afraid that, as you interpreted, the posts in the discussion might seem confusing, and I have several times been tempted to go back and update or correct issues which have been subsequently ironed out - but I conjured that would be dishonest and improperly make it seem like the discussion did not progress. So I do not plan to go back and edit them for clarity, sorry if there is confusion.

Are you considering the 3 Inara lines as accurate and precise?

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Monday, March 2, 2009 2:49 AM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:

I know many have discounted the Mal line in BDM about 8 months. If that were the sole reference, I would be less assured it was valid. But BDM script also has Operative saying it was 8 months ago that River escaped the Institute. This is several weeks before Lilac (Mr Universe said several weeks of subliminal Oaty Bar broadwaves), and the escape on Osiris was prior to the Pilot on Persephone - perhaps a few days or a week between escape and Pilot. Also, Pilot script says River-in-the-box is 17, and BDM script says River in BDM is 17 except for the escape scene, where she is 16. Because these 2 scripts are written by Joss, I felt they conveyed what he thought and intended, before time and budget constraints caused him to trim lines from filming. This means that all alone, here are 3 references agreeing with each other, but disagreeing with the "more than 1 year between Pilot and BDM" scenario.


It's rare, but I find your logic, and methodology, totally compelling this time. :) Especially I feel you're on the right track with your methodology. We've gone over the timeline many times, and encountered several bits of conflicting info. The only reasonably, sound thing to do then, IMHO, is what you're doing here: weigh the importance of each piece, and balance the things that add up against those that don't.

And in light of the above, I feel a comment like Kaylee's "Going on a year now" to have less weight than the other things you mention. I mean, ask folks when the BDM was shown on the silver screen, and you'll find people answer something like: "4 years ago." My point being, when answering such questions, hardly anyone does the exact math (people just quickly subtract the number of the year of the event from the current one, and are done with it; or just do approximations, like almost a year, like 8 months, becomes a year).


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Monday, March 2, 2009 9:00 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Well, I did check Safe again, and the 2 months wasn't there - whoops. Also, the Kowlon Fed Base line was not there either, and since it was not filmed, you likely aren't interested in it, so no need to go look for it - sorry for the detour.

Quote:

Originally posted by asarian:
Quote:

Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:

I know many have discounted the Mal line in BDM about 8 months. If that were the sole reference, I would be less assured it was valid. But BDM script also has Operative saying it was 8 months ago that River escaped the Institute. This is several weeks before Lilac (Mr Universe said several weeks of subliminal Oaty Bar broadwaves), and the escape on Osiris was prior to the Pilot on Persephone - perhaps a few days or a week between escape and Pilot. Also, Pilot script says River-in-the-box is 17, and BDM script says River in BDM is 17 except for the escape scene, where she is 16. Because these 2 scripts are written by Joss, I felt they conveyed what he thought and intended, before time and budget constraints caused him to trim lines from filming. This means that all alone, here are 3 references agreeing with each other, but disagreeing with the "more than 1 year between Pilot and BDM" scenario.


It's rare, but I find your logic, and methodology, totally compelling this time. :) Especially I feel you're on the right track with your methodology. We've gone over the timeline many times, and encountered several bits of conflicting info. The only reasonably, sound thing to do then, IMHO, is what you're doing here: weigh the importance of each piece, and balance the things that add up against those that don't.


This was really addressed in the other thread where discussion led up to the timelines posted by me. Here I was just re-explaining it for Edgar, who might not have seen the progression of the discussion in that thread. You might re-read that thread to see if it makes more sense now, or if you think I was off track in those conclusions or timelines. Otherwise I'd rather not threadjack here and knock Edgar off his course, I was just providing alternate ways for him to look at things. I'd be happy to explore your critique of mine in those threads, but we can focus this thread on helping Edgar accomplish what he wants.
Quote:


And in light of the above, I feel a comment like Kaylee's "Going on a year now" to have less weight than the other things you mention. I mean, ask folks when the BDM was shown on the silver screen, and you'll find people answer something like: "4 years ago." My point being, when answering such questions, hardly anyone does the exact math (people just quickly subtract the number of the year of the event from the current one, and are done with it; or just do approximations, like almost a year, like 8 months, becomes a year).


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam


I fully agree with the generalization and conversational abbreviations and approximations, and apply it to the lines in the shows. I get the impression Edgar is more exacting.
I did not consider Kaylee's comment to be hard evidence, but found it curious that no other encounter was mentioned during the show - I would have expected some mention of this Kaylee fling while Simon was aboard - not to mention that Jayne seems unaware of Kaylee's fling (could stand to hear a little more). Similar to the lack of mention in Ariel regarding Inara's previous year's exam - was she not aboard yet, were they too shy to inquire about it, or just why all the curiosity this time around?
For the "8 months" I consider it more exact than "half year back" instead of "6 months back" - Mal has a schedule, and he likely knows how long it's been since he's had to hide from work-rich environs because of his Tam cargo - he might also be keeping track of how much cashy money he's missed out on for this inconvenience. I expect it was not 10 months Mal was talking about. I also think The Operaqtive was not referring to 9 or 10 months when he said (in script) "8 months."

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Tuesday, March 3, 2009 5:45 PM

ALMANAC


Quote:

Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
You say you ordered them by production sequence once that became known. And then the DVDs came out, rearranging the sequence of episodes - that must have been some work to rearrange the timeline for those last 4 episodes as well.


It wasn't too much work, because there were really only two episodes rearranged by the DVD sequence, "Heart of Gold" and "Objects in Space."

Going by production order, they would fall between "War Stories" and "Trash," but the latter episode and "The Message" would stay in the same place on my timeline. The main effect of that was to create a gap between "War Stories" and "Trash" with no episodes occurring therein, and to shift some of the antecedent action referred to in other episodes into that gap.

To be frank, I feel like the series makes more sense (chronological and otherwise) in the original production order (e.g. with Jayne fully realising that River is psychic in "Objects in Space" and then operating from that knowledge in "Trash" and "The Message"), but I had to go with Joss Whedon's ordering, especially given the Inara-leaving arc which resulted from that.

Edgar Governo
Historian of Things That Never Were
http://www.mts.net/~arphaxad/history.html

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Tuesday, March 3, 2009 8:00 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


I had conjured that the timeline references would have shifted things about.
In Trash, Inara says no work for her in 3 weeks, shifting time from WS, HoG, OiS spanning 3 weeks to WS & Trash seperated by 3 weeks of no ep.
In OiS, Inara says to Jubal she's been aboard a year. With OiS following WS & HoG, this meshes better with TTJ's "8 months" line to Book. With WS, plus 3 weeks and Trash and Message and HoG, it's harder to mesh the extra month into the span between TTJ and OiS, I would think.

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Saturday, April 11, 2009 3:41 PM

ALMANAC


The nested-quote system no longer seems to be working for me properly, so I'm going to simplify the dialogue thus far...

Quote:

jewelstaitefan: Serenity bluray has an Alliance database.

Almanac: I'd seen that advertised, but wasn't quite sure what it would entail...

jewelstaitefan: List Mal's dob as 20 Sep 2468 (apparently a joke regarding soembody in the props dept born 20 Sep 1968)

Almanac: Does it say that in the database itself?

jewelstaitefan: it said the dob, the joke info was what I'd read elsewhere, numerous sources.


Got it...I would've been very surprised if such a database on an official product contained that kind of fan lore.

Quote:

jewelstaitefan: - is Mal really 49 in the show?

Almanac: I don't think so...but then, the movie shows that as the age for "Malcom" Reynolds, whoever he is.

jewelstaitefan: I would tend to discount Mal being 49. If Nathan, a few years younger than Gina, is playing 49, then Book must be about 100 played by Ron. (120 years is median life expectancy in Joss' verse).


I agree with that...and yet, you'd be surprised at how many people are willing to go along with the idea of a fifty-year-old Mal.

Quote:

jewelstaitefan: Kaylee 2 Jul 2497 location Kowlonshi,

Almanac: Matches my timeline again.

"Kowlonshi" is new to me.

jewelstaitefan: Maybe Kowlonshi and Kowlon Fed Base are different ways of saying the same place.

Almanac: Where is "Kowlon Fed Base" from...?

jewelstaitefan: I thought Kowlon Fed Base was where, in Safe, they were to drop off Badger's money from the cattle proceeds - from Jiangyin. Do I recall wrong?


I'd have to double-check the episode again, but I think this is another tidbit that was only in the script for "Safe." (Oops...looking over the thread, I see you already checked for this.)

My original comment was more about it being offered as Kaylee's birthplace, which is completely news to me.

Quote:

Almanac: Unfortunately, I don't currently own a Blu-Ray player.

However, if someone with Blu-Ray access who was reading this thread happened to take screencaps of the Alliance Database and emailed them to me for reference purposes (at the email address listed on the Firefly Timeline), I'd be forever grateful...

jewelstaitefan: I did not have a bluray player, until a few hours after I bought bluray Serenity and then bluray Firefly.


Fair enough...

My invitation was directed at anyone out there who might be willing to make such screencaps for me.

Edgar Governo
Historian of Things That Never Were
http://www.mts.net/~arphaxad/history.html

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Sunday, April 12, 2009 11:35 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Been a long time since I snappy'd. Not sure if I have any screencap stuff on my current units. Maybe somebody else can help.

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Wednesday, November 11, 2009 10:25 PM

ALMANAC


This month marks the sixth anniversary of the Firefly Timeline.

Unfortunately, there haven't been any new stories set in the 'verse since my last significant update, so the tweaking has continued while we all wait for those promised comics to be completed and released...

I'll keep bumping up this thread whenever an update or expansion takes place, of course, but you can also follow all of my timeline-related efforts on Twitter:

http://twitter.com/pseudohistorian

Edgar Governo
Historian of Things That Never Were
http://www.mts.net/~arphaxad/history.html

Visit the Browncoat Saloon:
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Saturday, January 30, 2010 9:45 AM

ALMANAC


Lest anyone think otherwise, I can assure you that I'll be adding all of the (presumably equally canonical) short stories from the recently-announced licenced Firefly anthology once it's released.

I'm looking forward to seeing what new details about the 'verse and its history will be offered...

Edgar Governo
Historian of Things That Never Were
http://www.mts.net/~arphaxad/history.html

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Wednesday, June 2, 2010 4:25 AM

ALMANAC


This is just a quick note to let everyone know that, even though Still Flying (with its four new short stories) and the comic book story "Float Out" have both been released as of this week, there will probably be a delay in adding them to the Firefly Timeline as I am currently concentrating on adding material to my Sex and the City Timeline:

http://www.mts.net/~arphaxad/sexandthecity.html

The series is older, but that timeline is much newer, so I'll be expanding that before circling back to the 'verse...

Edgar Governo
Historian of Things That Never Were
http://www.mts.net/~arphaxad/history.html

Visit the Browncoat Saloon:
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Wednesday, June 9, 2010 8:30 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


I read the 4 new stories in Still Flying.
No mention of named planets or systems, or timeframes.
Dick & Jayne is from Jayne's youth.
The rest occur when Wash is alive, and seems Inara is aboard in each.
Does not seem to have any effect on the timeline.

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Thursday, September 9, 2010 3:14 PM

ALMANAC


Since my last post, I have bought (and read) "Float Out," but not Still Flying, and I have yet to update the Firefly Timeline with information on either...

Before any update(s), though, I thought I should ask:

Would all of you reading this prefer that I add the information from "Float Out" first, right away, or wait until I also have the four short stories from Still Flying--or perhaps even until after The Shepherd's Tale has come out--before giving the timeline a much more thorough expansion?

Edgar Governo
Historian of Things That Never Were
http://www.mts.net/~arphaxad/history.html

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Sunday, September 12, 2010 2:54 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by Almanac:
Would all of you reading this prefer that I add the information from "Float Out" first, right away, or wait until I also have the four short stories from Still Flying--or perhaps even until after The Shepherd's Tale has come out--before giving the timeline a much more thorough expansion?

Edgar Governo
Historian of Things That Never Were
http://www.mts.net/~arphaxad/history.html

Wait until after The Shepherd's Tale comes out. For estimating the date of Float Out, . . .

Select to view spoiler:


. . . Baby girl Wash's birth does NOT need be less than 280 days from Daddy Wash's death.

And because nobody from Serenity showed at the christening of Jetwash, I'm thinking years and years could have passed. The woman looks ancient compared to Zoe in Serenity: Better Days. That might not only be different artist's style; it might be deliberate.

Remember, it is science fiction. Unlike today, in the distant future it is impossible to know how many months after Wash's death his child was conceived. Sperm banks exist for people working in a high radiation environments like Space Pilots. (Please don't believe a load of magic BS that space piloting is hypothetically safe because of scientific progress. The radiation exposure time for Wash could be 100,000 hours.) If Wash wanted healthy children, he had the good sense to put them in the freezer. Zoe is living in the same nasty environment as Wash. She might also have taken precautions with her eggs, not wanting to keep all her eggs in one basket, so to speak.



The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Saturday, April 9, 2011 1:13 PM

ALMANAC


Quote:

Originally posted by two:
For estimating the date of Float Out, . . .

Select to view spoiler:


. . . Baby girl Wash's birth does NOT need be less than 280 days from Daddy Wash's death.

And because nobody from Serenity showed at the christening of Jetwash, I'm thinking years and years could have passed. The woman looks ancient compared to Zoe in Serenity: Better Days. That might not only be different artist's style; it might be deliberate.

Remember, it is science fiction. Unlike today, in the distant future it is impossible to know how many months after Wash's death his child was conceived. Sperm banks exist for people working in a high radiation environments like Space Pilots. (Please don't believe a load of magic BS that space piloting is hypothetically safe because of scientific progress. The radiation exposure time for Wash could be 100,000 hours.) If Wash wanted healthy children, he had the good sense to put them in the freezer. Zoe is living in the same nasty environment as Wash. She might also have taken precautions with her eggs, not wanting to keep all her eggs in one basket, so to speak.




I hear what you're saying, but that's sort of similar to people who say, "You shouldn't assume they still use the same calendar we do." At some point, you have to apply Occam's Razor to that kind of situation--in the absence of evidence that they're doing something in a science-fictiony manner, it's just easier to assume it works the same way it would in the present day.

More generally speaking, I still haven't given the Firefly Timeline a thorough expansion, but I have since picked up and read The Shepherd's Tale...which didn't exactly take a long time to get through, for those of you who've also read it.

Although I look forward to updating the timeline to include the information from that graphic novel, there are a number of problems with indications of the passage of time in it which don't work with the other data we already have canonically--not the least of which is the implication that over two years pass between "Jaynestown" and the feature film Serenity.

If people have any thoughts on it before I draw my own conclusions, feel free to offer your input here. Anyone else should watch out for the spoilers that entails...

Edgar Governo
Historian of Things That Never Were
http://www.mts.net/~arphaxad/history.html

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Saturday, April 9, 2011 2:10 PM

BYTEMITE


There were some original sources that gave two to eight months for the movie Serenity, seeing as it was meant to be the end of season one or two of Firefly.

I assume that they decided to increase the time frame because they have plans to write more comics with Wash and Book in them before the movie. Not necessarily a bad thing for us.

Course, I can't give you hard data on that. I'm not sure anyone can except Joss or Zack.

I can understand not wanting to commit to a new timeline when it contradicts the old one. But I figure if you take Shepherd's Tale for canon, that's probably the best write down we're going to get for a broad scale timeline.

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Sunday, April 10, 2011 2:43 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by Almanac:
If people have any thoughts on it before I draw my own conclusions, feel free to offer your input here. Anyone else should watch out for the spoilers that entails...

Edgar Governo
Historian of Things That Never Were
http://www.mts.net/~arphaxad/history.html] What is very odd about the timeline in Float Out is that nobody from Serenity came to the Jetwash christening. That is so wrong.

Select to view spoiler:


At least Mal should be there with Zoe. And the woman doesn't look like Zoe. Blaming the artist can explain that away. Since there is only one black woman actress on Firefly, any black woman in the comics has to be Zoe, right?

Reading Float Out is more fun if you entertain the idea that the pregnant woman was not Zoe. That makes Wash a hot pilot and a dirty cheating dog! Zoe would have killed him if he had lived.

It also makes Float Out a Whedonesque tragedy -- Wash has his child, but Zoe never will.



The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Sunday, April 10, 2011 6:35 AM

BYTEMITE


Not so strange. If that's Zoe, and I think it is, then it's possible she goes on walk-about (fly-about?) as she's trying to come to terms with Wash's death and her old life as she prepares to have her girl. And if she's not with Serenity anymore, the crew of Serenity may not have heard of this memorial or been invited.

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Sunday, April 10, 2011 6:55 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Not so strange. If that's Zoe, and I think it is, then it's possible she goes on walk-about (fly-about) as she's trying to come to terms with Wash's death and her old life as she prepares to have her girl. And if she's not with Serenity anymore, the crew of Serenity may not have heard of this memorial or been invited.

Are you trying to get Firefly canceled? Single motherhood for Zoe doesn't mix well with Zoe staying on Serenity.

If Zoe goes on hiatus from Serenity during a pregnancy, there's many reasons for Zoe to not rejoin the crew until her child was a teen. There's kindergarten and playing with children the same age and elementary school and the part about Mommy Zoe possibly being killed in a gunfight, which can adversely affect a young child's emotional development.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Sunday, April 10, 2011 7:09 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Single motherhood for Zoe doesn't mix well with Zoe staying on Serenity.


No kidding. That's why I said she probably leaves.

Where is Zoe's story arc? Wash is dead, her characterization STILL hasn't changed much judging by the glimpse we saw at the end of the movie. Frankly, Zoe's story seems to be over. The fact that she's still alive and has a kid on the way is practically happily ever after in the Joss-verse.

I mean, yeah, there's still potentially interesting territory, like watching Zoe downward spiral after Wash's death and then her reaction to the news (either positive or negative), and if she stays we could be treated to Zoe dying, the baby dying, or some sort of new Blue Sun scheme that involves stealing newborns. But the question to ask yourself is would Joss even bother with any of that if he had to deal with the usual baby stuff, both in production and shown story wise? I say no. Joss and babies and childhood development fluff stories don't mix.

Making the woman in the comic not Zoe doesn't solve any of those problems. None of that gives Zoe a story arc. Zoe HAS no story arc. She's out, unless we return to the series several years later and the kid is old enough to learn how to shoot or fly.

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Sunday, April 10, 2011 7:40 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Joss has added children to his other shows. Catastrophe follows. On Angel, Zoe (Whoops! I meant Gina Torres) played Jasmine, who was born fully grown and preceded to bring on the end of the world. Then there was Angel's baby, Connor. More end of the world. If Zoe gets pregnant, it's the end of the Universe. Maybe Joss wants to go there in Serenity: The Comics. I sure hope not.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Sunday, April 10, 2011 7:45 AM

BYTEMITE


Yeah, but all the kids in question were supernatural in nature and a danger to the very fabrics of reality. And Jasmine wasn't even ever in the infant stage, like you said.

There's one time Joss put in kids that didn't cause the end of the world, weren't super powered, and were the offspring of some main characters for their not so happy ever after. And that was in the very last post-apocalyptic episode of Dollhouse. And he STILL didn't put in any baby or childhood development fluff.

Seriously, Joss doesn't do babies.

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Sunday, April 10, 2011 7:06 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


I don't trust Joss with timeline, he screws it up once and if he does it once he can do it again, ergo I feel its up to interpretation. In Trash Mal tells Monty that he ran into Saffron a half a year back (six months) and then in the movie Mal says its been eight months since they picked up Simon and River, insinuating that the Our Mrs. Reynolds incident was right after Simon and River came aboard, and considering the pacing of the episodes I don't think so Sherlock. So in my opinion all speculations about timeline in the movie are toast because the show came first so I trust its time precident. Just how I feel.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Monday, April 11, 2011 5:34 AM

BYTEMITE


Hmm. It could have happened only two months after Simon and River came aboard, after all we have to remember that we only saw like half a season, and Trash and others were towards the end of the run. If we say that the entire run of the series occurred somewhere between an estimated 6 and 8 months, then the fifth episode out of 14 would be slightly more than a third of the way through.

Though I swear I remember hearing something that dated OMR as five months after the pilot.

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Monday, April 11, 2011 9:48 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Hmm. It could have happened only two months after Simon and River came aboard, after all we have to remember that we only saw like half a season, and Trash and others were towards the end of the run. If we say that the entire run of the series occurred somewhere between an estimated 6 and 8 months, then the fifth episode out of 14 would be slightly more than a third of the way through.

Though I swear I remember hearing something that dated OMR as five months after the pilot.


In Safe Simon says he's been aboard 2 months.
In Train Job Inara says she's been aboard 8 months, and in Bushwahcked she says almost a year.
Pilot Serenity happened about 8 months before Film Serenity, as mentioned by Mal (to Simon) and in script by Operative to Dr Mathias.
Mal's mention of "half year back" is fairly vague, and I would not expect it to be precisely 182 days. I think it's more like 4 or 5 months.

There are some links to timeline discussions in the Writer's Resource Package thread in Blue Sun Room forum.

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Monday, April 11, 2011 2:14 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


I don't think we'll agree on this matter, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree, trying to shove 14 episodes into eight months might be valid if everything happened bam bam bam right in a row, but time estimations given in the show tell me that that isn't the case, oh, and we know that the cows were on board between Shindig and Safe for about a month. Maybe I will set up my own timeline based on info from the series alone, I suppose it might be done though it wouldn't be perfect because we weren't given enough to know for sure.

But I will never accept the movie timeline unless someone can give me a more powerful compelling reason to. But I think that people can figure it how they choose, its a show and movie for goodness sake, it isn't the end of the world.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Sunday, September 18, 2011 12:13 PM

ALMANAC


Although 2010 was a busy year in terms of new stories set in the 'verse, it was not such a great year for my updating the Firefly Timeline...

I'm just starting to make up for that now, with the first bits of information from "Float Out," "The Shepherd's Tale," and "Downtime." I hope to have much more detail to offer in the weeks to come.

In light of the discussion above regarding when "Float Out" takes place, I've applied Occam's Razor to the matter as I said I would.

Edgar Governo
Historian of Things That Never Were
[url] http://www.mts.net/~arphaxad/history.html]

Visit the Browncoat Saloon
[url] http://www.myspace.com/browncoatsaloon]

Browncoat Saloon Schwag
[url] http://www.zazzle.com/browncoatsaloon[/url]

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Monday, September 19, 2011 4:59 AM

BYTEMITE


You know, it does occur to me we could try to speculate on when What Holds Us Down and Crystal occurred.

I'd guess What Holds Us Down might have happened after Out Of Gas. After Serenity was damaged and their near brush with death, the understandably spooked crew decides they need to stock up on spare parts, so they go stealing from a junk yard. Wash and Kaylee are almost caught and killed.

Crystal appears to be after Ariel and before War Stories, when Simon is trying out new medicine combinations to try to fit the data he got about River's neurology and neuro-chemistry.

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Monday, September 19, 2011 8:33 AM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Byte, I'm curious why you feel Crystal must have occured before War Stories? It has been a while since I read it (you sent it to me), but I don't remember what indicates that time placement.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Monday, September 19, 2011 8:40 AM

BYTEMITE


Well because it seems at that point the crew still had most of the medicine they'd gotten in Ariel, while in War Stories they'd sold off most of it and Mal and Wash dumped the rest when Niska grabbed them.

In this story Simon's inventory seems well stocked. Also, there's a reference to Mal being dead, which could be foreshadowing for a later storyline in the series, or which refers to Mal dying under torture in War Stories before being defibrillated back to life.

But if River can see the future, and some of Crystal seems to suggest she can, then there might be layered meanings there so it could be both. But in any case, I'd lean towards between Ariel and War Stories for those reasons.

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Monday, September 19, 2011 1:36 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Oh! That makes total sense, thanks for explaining. What Byte says.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Sunday, April 16, 2017 12:12 PM

ALMANAC


After almost a year offline, the Firefly Timeline has returned to the Web at a new location:

http://thingsthatneverwere.com/firefly.html

This is essentially identical to the last update I'd made to the timeline at its previous URL, since my priority was figuring out where to host my content, but I'm now looking forward to a significant update which will include all the information from official stories that have come out lately. :)

Edgar Governo
Historian of Things That Never Were
http://thingsthatneverwere.com/

Visit the Browncoat Saloon
http://www.myspace.com/browncoatsaloon

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