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I actually sort of like the Alliance and what it stands for: prosperity, civilization, and progress.

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Originally posted by mincingbeast:
Perhaps this relates to my worrisome habit of drawing comparisons between the Confederates and the Brown Coats.

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Originally posted by Bytemite:
Pleased to meet you, won't you guess my name? Because puzzlin' you is the nature of my game.

I think even though Joss was inspired by depictions of the bloody misery and lack of food/medicine of the Civil War, that technically the Alliance, it's lords, and it's parliament are more British, and the Independents more American Revolutionaries. And Blue Sun is the East India Company.

I think that some malignant influences did stir up the Independents, because those interests wanted a war to hide what happened on Miranda. The time frame is too close together to be coincidential. Miranda was the REAL cause of the war. Though the whole resources versus manufacturing thing was a real bonus for the Alliance when they won and a partial motivation.

But basically I think the War was a cover up and a distraction. So, no, no side was technically in the right, but when the Independents claim to have been fighting for their sovereignty, I think that is true, so ideology wise I fall on the side of the browncoats.

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The Grand Union Flag, also known as the Congress flag, the First Navy Ensign, the Cambridge Flag, and the Continental Colors, is considered to be the first national flag of the United States. This flag consisted of 13 red and white stripes with the British Union Flag of the time (prior to the inclusion of St. Patrick's cross of Ireland) in the canton.

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The design of the Grand Union flag is similar to the flag of the British East India Company (BEIC). Indeed, certain BEIC designs in use since 1707 (when the canton was changed from the flag of England to that of Great Britain) were identical, as the number of stripes varied from 9 to 15. That BEIC flags were potentially well known by the American colonists has been the basis of a theory of the origin of the Grand Union flag's design.

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Perhaps this relates to my worrisome habit of drawing comparisons between the Confederates and the Brown Coats. Does anyone else ever feel that the Alliance is, perhaps, unfairly maligned? I mean, they don't make for interesting villains if they're all bad, right?

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Originally posted by mincingbeast:

also, i am an absolute black and white thinker and shun nuance,

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Originally posted by Storymark:

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Originally posted by mincingbeast:

also, i am an absolute black and white thinker and shun nuance,

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You have my deepest sympathies for your disability.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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the civil war...it was about slavery, i think the evidence would suggest. not as a moral issue, but as an economic one. doesn't necessarily contradict byte's neat ideas.

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I completely see why Mal would be mad at them for allegedly (probably actually) forcing Alliance rule on the independent planets, but we don't really know everything about the lead-up. How unanimous was the "vote" of the people on the independent planets to not join the Alliance? Was there investment in the planets by the alliance that justified their interest?

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The Alliance was the protective parent. The Core
worlds were model children. But the Alliance had
another problem. They feared their “good children”
were going to be corrupted by the bad seeds who
lived on the wrong side of the ‘Verse. The worlds
on the Border and the Rim were self-governing,
outside the limits of Alliance control. Each world
had its own set of laws and rules that suited its
own particular needs. Folk living on these frontier
planets had been forced to be self-reliant in order
to survive, and they had come to be free-thinkers
who saw no need for a lot of government meddling.
The Alliance considered such independence a threat
to civilization. (They also considered that a lot of
valuable resources and real estate were outside their
control!) For the benefit of all people in the ‘Verse,
the Alliance decided that every planet in the system
should come under Alliance rule, whether its people
wanted it or not.

Idealistic folk of the Core planets thought this
was a great idea. Doesn’t everyone would want to
live on a safe, civilized world where folk are cared
for by their betters? The movement for Unification
spread like wildfire through dry brush. The leaders
on the Core thought they had only to open their
arms in a wide embrace and those poor benighted
souls on the Rim would come running home to their
mothers.

Those on the Border did come running. Only
problem—they carried guns.

The War for Unification was the most
devastating war in human history. All those who
lived through it are marked, like a scar left behind by
an old wound. (Just that some happen to have big
scars traced all ‘cross their faces while others have
tiny ones hidden away.) Outer planets, including
Shadow, Persephone, and Hera, mustered forces and
formed an alliance of their own—the Independent
Faction (known as “Browncoats,” thanks to the
brown dusters their soldiers took to wearing). The
Parliament of the Alliance instituted a draft to build
its forces. They were considerably astonished to
learn that more than half of the Independent forces
were composed of volunteers. The Alliance (known
as the “Purple Bellies” for their style of dress) had
the manpower, the ships, and technology to make
the result of the war a forgone conclusion—but no
one anticipated that freedom would be something so
many folk would be willing to die to protect.

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Originally posted by fearthebunnyman:
And you also have to consider why Inara and Simon, who we know to be good people, supported Unification - they probably thought they had an awesome government, and people out on the Rim were starving (which they are in places), uneducated and without running water, infrastructure, or healthcare (which again, are) and have a lawless system where they are at risk of criminals, war lords, mini-tyrants, and slavers (which again-again, they are)and Unification would help all those people. Like, has anyone here seen "Goodbye Lenin"? The guy's mom, with her total idealistic love of the Socialist Unity Party of Germany? I feel like a lot of people in the Core were probably like that.

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Originally posted by two:

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Originally posted by fearthebunnyman:
And you also have to consider why Inara and Simon, who we know to be good people, supported Unification - they probably thought they had an awesome government, and people out on the Rim were starving (which they are in places), uneducated and without running water, infrastructure, or healthcare (which again, are) and have a lawless system where they are at risk of criminals, war lords, mini-tyrants, and slavers (which again-again, they are)and Unification would help all those people. Like, has anyone here seen "Goodbye Lenin"? The guy's mom, with her total idealistic love of the Socialist Unity Party of Germany? I feel like a lot of people in the Core were probably like that.

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As the great humanitarian Joseph Stalin taught us, you can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs. Citizens of the Alliance should just gently shut their eyes and think about the massive slaughter and destruction in the Rim of the 'Verse as mere "birth pangs" on the road to something beautiful, lawful, and healthy.

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Originally posted by mincingbeast:
if the thesis that the average member of the alliance is unaware of the crimes that a corrupt cabal performs in their name, then eye shutting doesn't really have much to do with it, does it?

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Originally posted by mincingbeast:
interesting. i'd rather think of mal as a bond villain of the bitter cossack variety, as opposed to, say, a Tea Partier.

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Originally posted by mincingbeast:

But seriously, for Miranda to be super shocking, it must be super secretive--and I for one think it makes sense if the average Alliance citizen had no idea that the Alliance is capable of such things. Hence my sympathy for the Alliance--you can support a cause you believe in, fight for it, and then discover the corruption. Makes for some nice disillusionment.

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Originally posted by Bytemite:
Uh... Actually, you just carpet bombed the dinosaurs. They're dead now. They would have been very useful to study, but even their DNA has been melted into goo.

You just set science back 65 million years. >:(

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Originally posted by mincingbeast:

mr. chrisisall, i agree with everything you said.

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
The Alliance is a mystery, one which we see very little of. Judging by the general attitude of the Alliance's loyal citizens, they don't seem to really care one way or another what the Alliance does.

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