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MR. KOJO NNAMDI - From WAMU 88.5 at American University in Washington, welcome to "The Kojo Nnamdi Show, connecting your neighborhood with the world. Howard Ross is with us. Howard Ross spent decades exploring the rules and rituals of the American workplace, but today we're exploring how our business culture compares with, say, Switzerland or Singapore, especially when it comes to diversity.

American attitudes toward race and gender and culture reflect our unique history, affirmative action and policies against discrimination came directly from our long struggle for civil rights. But what if your country never had a civil rights movement? What if you never had to confront large scale immigration and diversity in the workplace?

International businesses often find themselves navigating a patchwork of cultural expectations in different countries. Howard Ross is a business coach and consultant and trainer who works on workplace diversity issues. He's a principal with the firm Cook Ross. Howard, good to see you.

MR. HOWARD ROSS - Hey Kojo, how are you?

NNAMDI - Here in the U.S., we tend to see workplace diversity issues through the lens of civil rights and for good reason. For most of this country's history, the corporate world was mostly closed off to people of color and women and it was only after the civil rights movement that progress was made at diversifying American workplaces. But what about countries without that kind of history? How are these same issues viewed in a country, say, like Switzerland, a place that never had a civil rights movement, that finds itself nevertheless confronting the forces of immigration and diversity?

ROSS - Well I think it's a very interesting difference, Kojo, and it's hard for us. I mean, I think even in this country, we don't really see -- and when I say we, I mean, the larger national zeitgeist about this issue, don't really see the way our history with race relations, particularly the civil rights movement, African Americans and the women's movement to a certain degree, have shaped the way we see these issues of diversity, inclusion and cultural competency.

We tend to see them as an extension of these historical movements because they are, in our context. But if you go to places like northern Europe, to Switzerland -- you know, in the last 18 months or so I've been in Switzerland, Japan, Singapore, Denmark, London, Canada, Taiwan and India, you know. You go to places like northern Europe, for example, where, for the most part, you've been dealing with a racially homogenous group of people, historically up until the last 10, 15, 20 years.

You've been dealing with a group of people who are mostly religiously homogenous, of course a lot of it having to do with, you know, the Holocaust and the removal of a lot of people, particularly Jews, but also Roma and other people. And so you've been dealing with cultures that have seen themselves generally as being pretty socially liberal on these issues or progressive and inclusive on these issues. In fact, in a lot of cases, very judgmental about the United States...

NNAMDI - Yeah I was about to say, especially when they're looking across the water.

ROSS - That's right. And all of a sudden, in an incredibly short historical period of time, we see these kinds of changes happening. I mean, just -- I don't know if you saw the story, but you probably did, just the other day that said that now this year the name Muhammad is the number one name for boys in England now. The new name for image brings up obviously all kinds of issues. So it's something that's happened very fast and it challenges, fundamentally, the way people in those cultures see themselves, even in the language that's used to describe it.

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NNAMDI - Here's Orietta in Fairfax, Virginia. Orietta, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

ORIETTA - Hi. Thank you for taking my call. I lived in Stockholm, Sweden, for six years and I actually just moved back to the area about a month ago. I was working there and I was also a student. And I experienced so much racism there and loads and loads of nationalism. I was denied service at a clothing store. I was called names. And I even became a Swedish citizen since I had lived there for six years. But, you know, through friends and through other people, they made me realize that even though I speak Swedish, adapted and assimilated to Swedish culture and customs, I would never, ever be a Swede or accepted as one.

I don't look like a Swede. I have dark skin and dark hair. But it's so different compared to my parents, for example. My dad is from Cuba and my mom is from Venezuela and they came to United States, as one a refugee and the other an immigrant. And they're American citizens now, but they are accepted as American citizens and they feel American.

And, yeah, it's just quite a pity. And one thing Howard Ross had mentioned about his friend in Denmark. I have two friends that are brothers born in Sweden. They have one Chilean parent and one Swedish parent and they have never been considered Swedish by the cultural standards, unfortunately. So it is really a lot about what people look like and race as the identifier.

NNAMDI - Orietta, while you were in Sweden for, what, six years? ... Did you want to be considered Swedish?

ORIETTA - Well, I wanted to be able to, you know, be able to fit into society and retain my own cultural identity, you know, which is -- actually, I'm not really sure what it is. I'm an American, but I'm also Latina. I was born here so that's also a very complex issue. But I found that unless I was willing to give up part of myself or give up myself, I would never be -- I mean, I would never be accepted anyway. I was at a... midsummer party, and this was after I became a Swedish citizen, and someone had tacked up all these photos of -- oh, look at all these happy Swedes and one American. And I wrote, oh, well, I'm actually Swedish now. And they were like, well, you're not really Swedish. So, yeah, it's kind of -- yeah.

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My dad is from Cuba and my mom is from Venezuela and they came to United States, as one a refugee and the other an immigrant. And they're American citizens now, but they are accepted as American citizens and they feel American.

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