This is WHY you need a mag that has 30 rounds. by Wulfenstar

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Now that is just plain stupid. Things like that happen every day around our country, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with needing 30 rounds. Are you saying if she had a gun that GIRL could have shot every one of them? She could have done that with fewer rounds, but to use this detestable, horrific example to make your point is truly, truly off-the-wall and pathetic. She wouldn't have been allowed to bring a gun to school, in the first place, and...well, this is just ridiculous and doesn't need further response.

Nobody needs to "defend" anything; you didn't make your point.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Wednesday, March 16, 2011 12:28 PM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

"Now that is just plain stupid. Things like that happen every day around our country, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with needing 30 rounds. Are you saying if she had a gun that GIRL could have shot every one of them? She could have done that with fewer rounds, but to use this detestable, horrific example to make your point is truly, truly off-the-wall and pathetic. She wouldn't have been allowed to bring a gun to school, in the first place, and...well, this is just ridiculous and doesn't need further response."

"Nobody needs to "defend" anything; you didn't make your point."

Actually, Niki, I did.

Or, more correctly.

You just did it for me.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Wednesday, March 16, 2011 12:39 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

What "point" did I make? I was being sarcastic; if you really believe any of what I wrote makes your point, you're truly self-deluded.

No, you made no point. You titled this "This is WHY you need a mag that has 30 rounds", but the example you offered has nothing whatsoever to do with that. Not worth further pursuing.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Wednesday, March 16, 2011 12:47 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:

Now that is just plain stupid. Things like that happen every day around our country, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with needing 30 rounds.

Just boys bein' boys, huh Niki ?

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Wednesday, March 16, 2011 12:56 PM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:

Now that is just plain stupid. Things like that happen every day around our country, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with needing 30 rounds.

Just boys bein' boys, huh Niki ?

Well, we know you like 'em young, right, Rappy?

Nobody needed 30 rounds to stop this, or even 1 round. All that was needed was one person to stand up and say "This is wrong." Other coverage of the story has tried to lay the blame on the victim, claiming that "she might have been 11, but she dressed like she was 20". Disgusting. Doesn't matter how she dressed, doesn't matter if she was BEGGING for a gang-bang. She's ELEVEN. It's rape.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Wednesday, March 16, 2011 1:01 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
Just boys bein' boys, huh Niki ?

Boy, you're really running out of ammunition if that's all you've got!

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Wednesday, March 16, 2011 2:02 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER

Quote:
Boy, you're really running out of ammunition if that's all you've got!

Haha...ha...ha... It's funny cause you said ammunition...

Well I think the solution's pretty obvious, we either require all 11 year old girls pack heat (with 30 round clips), adopt Sharia Law so's women can't go outside and get raped in the 1st place, or place all them dangerous negros in special camps where they won't be a danger to themselves and others. Well... they won't be a danger to us anyway. Help them 'concentrate' on being productive members of society or something.

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Wednesday, March 16, 2011 2:19 PM

USBROWNCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:

Now that is just plain stupid. Things like that happen every day around our country, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with needing 30 rounds.

Just boys bein' boys, huh Niki ?

Well, we know you like 'em young, right, Rappy?

Nobody needed 30 rounds to stop this, or even 1 round. All that was needed was one person to stand up and say "This is wrong." Other coverage of the story has tried to lay the blame on the victim, claiming that "she might have been 11, but she dressed like she was 20". Disgusting. Doesn't matter how she dressed, doesn't matter if she was BEGGING for a gang-bang. She's ELEVEN. It's rape.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

I'll agree with this post. She could look 85 that does not matter. Also, a gun would not have helped.

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Wednesday, March 16, 2011 2:48 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

This was a disgusting and horrible occurance. The people who did it are groty and should get in lots of trouble, an example of group think/mob mentality/well everyone else is doing it/people who must not have been raised right if they are going to gang rape an 11 year old. And blaming a young girl because of how she dresses is just stupid, not only does it insinuate that she is the badguy but it insinuates that males are bafoons who can't control themselves when they see female skin and that it wasn't their fault they hurt her. No rutting way, it was their fault and it was all their fault and they are the ones who need to pay. I was very upset when I heard this story last week.

I don't reckon a gun would be applicable in this situation because she was eleven and at school. So the title isn't a good one. But it is a horrible story and people need to be aware so we can try to prevent it next time.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, March 17, 2011 1:50 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

"I don't reckon a gun would be applicable in this situation because she was eleven and at school. So the title isn't a good one. But it is a horrible story and people need to be aware so we can try to prevent it next time."

Here is the scenario where it would have mattered:

A neighbor walks by the window, sees whats going on. Calls the police.

As the police usually take a while, and this must be stopped right away, he takes his 30 round magazine and goes to confront 18 (probably armed) thugs.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Thursday, March 17, 2011 8:29 AM

30 friends > 30 bullets.
We've had this discussion before.

In this case a weapon might not have done much good, then again it might - thing is, personal defense has a whole hell of a lot more TO it than just packing heat(1), and knowledge of how to avoid a developing "situation" can be as effective as a fucking flamethrower(2), but morons like Wulfenwhiner the violence geek(3) demean and discredit any attempt to advocate such a thing cause it's obvious they're looking for an excuse to kill people.

Not to mention that whole being victimised thing becomes exponentially harder with every ally you have - and if you have a swift communications protocol this can be true whether they're actually present at the time or not.

Problem is, because of the way our society treats kids, and because kids do NOT make any distinction between "Approved" and "Unapproved" violence and abuse against them, most folk not only do not teach kids self-defense, they actually sabotage a childs attempt to learn any, often with deliberate misinformation. (4)

The reason for this is obvious, especially in a society as mentally, emotionally, and physically abusive as ours - if a child learns to defend themself from assailants, the next time YOU wanna enforce your will upon them without their consent.. guess what, YOU just became an assailant!
Most parents FEAR this - come on now, why the hell do you think so many kids wind up kicked out the door the moment they have the physical or other ABILITY to stand up for themselves, how MANY stories of that nature in your families, hmm ?

So we make them defenseless, ENSURE that they're defenseless (see also: Zero Tolerance), and then refuse to protect them after teaching them a mindset of learned helplessness - and guess what, people - it worked so well on THEM, and y'all didn't say a fuckin thing... that the powers that be have decided to apply it to YOU!
Been to the airport lately, hmmm ?

So no, adding a weapon to this situation wouldn't have done a fucking ounce of good, in the hands of an untrained person who HAS BEEN TAUGHT TO *BE* HELPLESS - you could have walked up to her with a fully loaded, pre-cocked, round-chambered, safety-off Baretta M29F with a full mag, put it right in her little hands, and she STILL would not have been able to resist, because our society teaches them not to.

Not walkin into the trap, running the fuck away - that she might have managed, but save your purile little murder fantasies for folks stupid enough to believe them, shithead.

-Frem

(1) http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/pyramid.html

(2) http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/five_stages.html

(3) http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/violence_geeks.htm

(4) http://defendyourself101.ca/articles/lies-bleed

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Thursday, March 17, 2011 8:42 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Well, as we are not all purile gimps with a God-complex, you pathetic exscuse for a pity-case..

ALLOW me to school your wheelchair-bound, too-close-for-comfort-with-children, wasting away, ass.

HAD someone with any guts, or a modicum of decency walked by and SAW that 18 (or more) "thugs" (which is a cute phrase for those of a darker and evil nature) RAPING AN 11 y/o...

well hells bells,

IF they HAD a weapon that could handle a troop of that size, they might have decided to put a stop to it.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Thursday, March 17, 2011 9:28 AM

Don't be more an idiot that you can help, boy.

Firstoff, the crime took place indoors in a non-public location, as these kind of things usually do otherwise someone generally DOES stop it.

Secondly, even so, a lot of folks are reluctant to step up for reasons other than lack of will - our legal system has made it abundantly clear that it considers self-defense pretty goddamn criminal, and only very begrudgingly accepts that it has to "put up with it" for constitutional reasons, in light of this, trying to protect or defend others without the shiny tin badge and spiffy stormtrooper uniform to show you're "authorized" (i.e. trusted to obey orders) is gonna get you in deep, not only because those so-called protectors will get really fucking snippy about their prerogatives - but also cause if allowed to continue will bring in the question of why we need them.

And on a larger, social scale - the exact same problem with deliberately-taught helplessness exists at an adult level in our society as well, in that someone who ISN'T becomes *more* of a threat to the established order than the goons who committed the heinous crime, because at least those goons provide an excuse to "need" those protectors.

Most folk are aware of this on some level or another, and THAT, not a lack of will, is why they do not act - because taking action couldn't not only cost them their life, but also could legally cost them everything they have at the hands of a system that does NOT want folk to ever be able to do so.
http://jpfo.org/smith/smith-herefords.htm
I consider the fact that some few will act ANYWAY to be a triumph of the human spirit, but your own petty little violence fantasies have blinded you to the realities of peoples motivations and causes for action.

I pointed out to someone else recently that one reason no one wants to talk about, that no one called the cops while kitty genovese was being murdered was the well known malice and brutality of that department meaning a high likelyhood that whoever called it in would be accused of the crime, taken downtown, and have a "confession" beaten out of them - and as such, there was a certain reluctance to take that risk...

It's one thing to face down a pack of thugs, yet another to do so, and THEN have to face down our legal system on top of it - something else we teach these kids as well, the kid I mention from the 1978 NEA report on school violence *DID* stand up to his tormenters, with a knife, and *DID* successfully stand them off - only to be severely punished and have his knife confiscated, leading to him being kicked to death in a stairwell shortly thereafter - what kind of message do you think this sends to children, who grow up to be adults, who will not act because they've BEEN TRAINED NOT TO ?

You have to, absolutely and completely, FIRST address the problem of our society teaching learned helplessness in order to facilitate victimhood of people, first by the school/parents, and later by the government, this is absolutely imperative because without it, people as a whole are NOT GOING TO HAVE THE MINDSET, to make a weapon effective - if they break their conditioning at all, in most cases they end up like you, with such a fucked up idea of self-defense it demeans the entire concept and makes it just that damn much harder for folks like me to get in there early and break the fuckin cycle.

What likely *would* have helped this kid, the most in the situation was one facet of self-defense in particular - when the bad guy wants to take you somewhere, you fight, you fight NOW, because you'll never have a better chance - they wanna move you because you're not in THEIR safe zone, you are somewhere there's a chance of resuce, intervention, or escape, so they wanna put you somewhere there isn't - anything they might do to you there is far less than what *IS* going to happen to you if they get you into their safe zone.

Problem is, no one taught this kid that, because collectively as a society, we use the SAME TACTICS, that these malicious scum did - and you might wanna consider THAT, for a while, in respect to the notion that when it comes to children learning self defense, our society feels EXACTLY the same way about the notion as the folks who committed this crime.

This is but once incident, which has already happened - whinging and whining won't make it unhappen, but to PREVENT or at least substantially reduce the chances of, crap like this in the future - we MUST re-evaluate how we look at our young, how we treat them, because all the little kneejerk ego-pacification bullshit does is make it worse, with "drug free" and "gun free" zones and other happy feelgood measures which just contribute to the problems by never ever addressing the underlying roots and causes, instead of the symptoms - as I say, nyquil for tuberculosis, as usual..

Problem with THAT is, folks like me have a damn hard time getting any traction for these concepts, BECAUSE OF PEOPLE LIKE YOU making themselves easy go-to strawmen for dismissing the argument entire, so for once in your life consider the fact that shutting the fuck up, or at least, at the very bloody least, waiting till you have actually *thought about it* for more than three seconds, before opening that great, gaping, gob of yours and spilling bile on every point you wish to make so where it's so revolting and unpalatable it will dismissed even if you have the fortune to accidently have put it in a sensible, logical form.

Oh, and getting all personal cause your puny, pathetic little ego took a beatin when you got called on your behavior doesn't help matters either, it just makes you look like a goddamn crybaby, punk.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Thursday, March 17, 2011 9:42 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Oh good Lord...

Yes, society sucks.

It sucks because it likes to pretend that bad things NEVER happen, and ignores those troublesome places where animals run things.

I think Google and Apple make an app that helps people avoid them on their GPS.

But, in this case, and the point I was making, was that IF (and Oh GOD, how big an IF is this), someone of a good nature SAW something bad happening in this hell.... actually WANTED to STOP this... then they need the tools to do so.

But yeah, sure... its all societies fault.

Lets take away the tools needed for the simple, GOOD, people to stop crimes like this... and blame society.

Its easier.

ETA: "It's one thing to face down a pack of thugs, yet another to do so, and THEN have to face down our legal system on top of it.."

.....and by doing so, a 11 y/o is NOT raped by a troop of animals. I would take those odds and be happy for it.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Thursday, March 17, 2011 11:00 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Forget it Frem, he's not capable of rational thinking. Everything you said is right on; his response?

Quote:
It sucks because it likes to pretend that bad things NEVER happen, and ignores those troublesome places where animals run things.

Ignoring every logical point you made which is actually TRUE, he somehow believes everyone is pretending bad things never happen...despite banner headlines and loud reports showing up on every station at the same time when something like this DOES. You see? No "thought" process going on, just "yeah, yeah" and ignoring reality.

You pretty much stated the reality of the situation, Frem, but the rest of us already know it and people like Wulf can't face it. They NEED for there to be a place where a 30-round mag is necessary, they need to justify it, that's all.

We could cite him all the examples, from that woman years ago in...New York I think it was?...who screamed bloody murder for so long yet none of the neighbors lifted a finger, to people who HAVE stepped in and died for it, and it wouldn't mean squat. It's a cemented mentality, nothing will change it; that's WHY he could put a story like this up with the title that it represents why 30-round mags are needed.

As an aside, I find it interesting that people like Wulf, when rational arguments are presented to point out that what they believe is over the top, so often turn around and say things which indicate that, to them, the only options ARE their over-the-top solutions or that everyone is "ignoring" and/or "denying" the evil. Wonder where that comes from?

ETA: Just occurred to me that, unless the gang involved were carrying (which wasn't mentioned anywhere and, given it was an 11-year-old, they may well not have been), ONE shot into the sky and displaying a firearm might have scattered the bunch of them. Not 30 rounds, and I can't imagine there would even have been a need for that many if a few of them WERE carrying...he SEEMS to be indicating that you'd need 30 rounds to kill all 18...?

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Thursday, March 17, 2011 3:27 PM

HARDWARE

Can any of you prove to me that if this 11 year old had been packing a .32 pocket pistol with 8 rounds that she would have been unable to stop this rape?

All we are talking about is a matter of training. And, as Niki just pointed out, all she would have had to do is fire one round from her magic talisman into the sky and all 18 of them would have scampered off like rats.

Go on, let's hear your arguments.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

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Thursday, March 17, 2011 7:05 PM

Idiot boy...

"need?"

*blink*

"NEED?"

What's this happy horseshit about NEED?

The Second Amendment says...

Quote:
...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed

I don't see a fuckin thing about NEED in there, do you ? - cause there ain't!
If nothing else in your miserable, forsaken life, learn to take good advice when you get it no matter how you feel about the source, content, or delivery.

Were you somehow, as usual, NOT listening when I repeatedly pointed out the folly of playing a rigged game by rules your opponent is both writing, and not bound by ?

It says what it says - anything bullshit that comes between "the people" and "bearing arms" is, by it's very nature, an infringement, thus by trying to make excuses FOR THEM, by operating on the assumption you have to have a need, you've already handed the initiative, and the argument, over to those who would revoke those rights.

This is just as stupid, as foolish, as those idiots begging "permission" to protest, you don't START a brawl on your knees, and you don't go begging the masters for crumbs when you SHOULD be demanding your proper slice of the pie - this is why I consider the NRA to be a bunch of demented quisling pillocks, might I remind you.

All you're doing by trying to weasel about, trying to find justifications and/or make excuses, is giving away turf that people like me fought for by accepting the assumptions of those who would not respect the bill of rights - on ANY of them, wholesale, giving an inch is tantamount to pissing it away, how else do you think things have come to the state they are ?

Sure, by weaselling about and playing uncle tom you might be able to put off the excuse you didn't really MEAN to resist, honest... do you think that's going to make a whole hell of a lot of difference, if those rights ever fall so completely the powers that be (BOTH sides, including the one your dumb, ignorant ass keeps cheering on and HELPING shred the BoR) can steamroller the works ?

Fuck that noise, fuck "need", we the people don't HAVE to prove a "need", it's our right - and if you're GOING to defend it, than man up, reach down and FIND A FUCKING PAIR somewhere, and do so, but don't hand over turf *I* fought for and make bullshit excuses to please the masters so you don't get your chops busted, because all THAT accomplishes... is handing over our rights piecemeal instead of wholesale.

Idiot boy.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Thursday, March 17, 2011 7:06 PM

Oh yes, and yea, verily, I do indeed have some idea of what ELSE this latest whinge was all about.

Look, Loughners problem was that he's batshit crazy, not anything more - in fact by choosing the tool he did, that may have inadvertantly limited the damage cause for a fact he would have caused way more casualties if he'd driven his truck through the crowd, and I don't see that as reason or incitement to ban trucks any more than I can find logical reason to use what happened as an excuse to ban the tools he did use.

The magazine didn't magically insert itself into a weapon and then slap itself into his hand and make him crazy, the ratbastard was ALREADY crazy, and assigning motivation or intent to an INANIMATE OBJECT is the worst kind of anthropomorphicism, and it dodges the social responsibility of addressing the fact that it was Loughner, not the weapon, which made the decision to kill.

Of course, to address that means admitting the complete, unrelenting and ongoing failure of our mental health care system (or healthcare system as a whole), and nobody seems to wanna do that.

I got some notions, ones that don't involve handing us over nuts-first on a silver platter to a pack of greedy "insurance" companies who've proven beyond all doubt at all they cannot be trusted whatever, but that for another time.

Oh, and to hell with executing him, a far better use is to pick him apart mentally without regard to his health or wellbeing and find the fuck out what caused him to be the way he is, and maybe how to treat it - since his own actions have removed any need to respect his personhood in the doing, and I think a far MORE appropriate fate for him than just one more body in the ground.

Also, this specifically for you, Kid - you need to look in the mirror real hard and face that you ain't very far short of this guy, the mental place you're in, and DO something about it - I don't mean jack a prozac, I mean go find *something* that works for you and fucking learn to cope, deal, and overcome - preferably in a fashion that doesn't include getting verbally kicked in the teeth by me on a regular basis cause THAT can't be doin ya much good either...

-Frem

PS. - I actually happen to LIKE large mags, cause imma lazy bastard and range-reloading eats into my shooty-shooty time, one reason I lug that monstrosity with a 30 round drum instead of a stick mag, plus the drum is far easier to reload, at least the one I have - but fucked if I see any legal "need" to justify having or using one.

PPS. Will address your comment next round, Hardware - gotta pound the pavement and help carry the drunken morons to their doorsteps tonite, you see...

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Thursday, March 17, 2011 7:31 PM

DMAANLILEILTT

In my country, you can't get a magazine for a handgun that has more than 10 rounds, and (**shock**) this isn't a common occurance.

And if even someone had 10 rounds for 18 people, that still means 10 people can be shot and I don't think most people's reaction would be "I got a 1 in 3 (approx) chance of not getting shot. I like those odds!" Their reaction would be: "Holy shit! I'm getting the fuck outta here!" because nobody wants to get shot.

"I really am ruggedly handsome, aren't I?"

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Thursday, March 17, 2011 7:52 PM

Ughh, gonna need patience - this next bit will take a while to hammer out, and the bars here just let out which means I'll soon be up to my neck in drunk-self-stupids needing poured back into their units...
Thanks be I had my spare wheelchair handy, some of these bastards are heavy!

They'll forgive my impertinance, as usual, especially given that I laid in a goodly stock of hangover helper kits and have been handing them out to the poor benighted souls...
(all the while laughing my ass off that the post-melt lawn care visit, which'll include those loudass mowers, is scheduled for bright and early this coming morning, ain't karma a bitch ?)

-F

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Thursday, March 17, 2011 9:20 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

I understand now why Wulf used the title he did, it makes sense now when we think of someone coming who has a concealed weapon and shoots near, then at, the badguys, yes in this situation a neighbor wouldn't happen to walk by, but I understand his principle and, though the title is misleading and the only reason anyone is arguing here, I understand his use of it now.

Frem has a great point about how our society makes it well nye on impossible to defend oneself, much less save someone else, without getting in legal trouble afterwords. This is a huge problem and I think it is something that people need to stand up against, say no rutting way, only a rutted up society discourages people from looking out for each other and we insist that the rules be changed so we can help each other again without getting jailed for it.

I can't get too far into this now though because I'm still floating on my Irish high (figuratively speaking) since St. Patrick's day is my favorite day of the year and I had a very good one, I hope everyone had a good day (even Frem before the crowds got stupid, I hope everyone did something special that they enjoyed, even if it wasn't directly Irish related, we must start somewhere afterall.

:)))))))))))

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, March 17, 2011 9:48 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Gang rape is SOP for girls who join gangs.

It's also called breaking a whore.

Same thing Uncle Scam does to every Amerikan.

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Friday, March 18, 2011 1:52 AM

HARDWARE

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Ughh, gonna need patience - this next bit will take a while to hammer out, and the bars here just let out which means I'll soon be up to my neck in drunk-self-stupids needing poured back into their units...
Thanks be I had my spare wheelchair handy, some of these bastards are heavy!

They'll forgive my impertinance, as usual, especially given that I laid in a goodly stock of hangover helper kits and have been handing them out to the poor benighted souls...
(all the while laughing my ass off that the post-melt lawn care visit, which'll include those loudass mowers, is scheduled for bright and early this coming morning, ain't karma a bitch ?)

-F

Good luck Frem. St. Patrick's is one of two amateur nights here in the US. The habitual drinkers know how to handle their booze. The amateurs are gonna hurl on your shoes or in the back of your squad car.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

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Friday, March 18, 2011 4:03 AM

Or on the back of my jacket... not all of em are that heavy, and I think that was prolly the poor girls first actual drinking outing, which means she's gonna be servicing the round ceramic altar making deals with God (you lie, he KNOWS you lie!) for a while to come.
One advantage to firemans carry is that if they do hurl it just mostly bounces off the back of the jacket, which is easy enough to stuff in the wash, and a small price to pay to insure they're safely in their own unit with the door locked while incapacitated - that one is in for a lecture on personal safety, albeit a mild one given she was smart enough to bring a friend to haul her off before she keeled completely over.

Wasn't THAT bad, not so much as I was expecting, but between the stress and extertion, and my traditional two-shotter, one of genuine west virginia moonshine, and one of irish moonshine (pocheen), both tinted green with a little food coloring, I went down like a ton of bricks, heh, gettin too old for that sorta thing, I think.

As for back seat, well - when I used to drive a cab, one thing that struck me was the picture wall they had of alcohol-involved accident scenes I was lookin at while I did the paperwork to get my hack license up in Flint.
My cab had vinyl seats mind you, so all I had to do was just roll up to the local auto-wash, and a couple quick shots of steam and some paper towels took care of that lickey-split, followed up with an enzymatic spray which handily removed even the memory of it, and cheap at the price, cause far better than than some poor kid splattered all over the highway, you know ?

A lot of cab companies, for PR reasons offer free transport for the besotted on new years and such, but I started doing it year round, initially at a slight loss because I just couldn't stand the thought of someone being dead cause they didn't have cab fare and tried to drive home inebriated - the bars started taking up a punchbowl collection and financing that service via a stipend for me, and it worked out quite well, the locals started calling me the Drunk Fairy as a pun, since I ferried them home and poured them on their doorstep and most of em couldn't quite remember how they got there - damn shame fuel prices and the insane tax burdens put me out of the business though, there's something WRONG when you can work a nine hour shift and end up OWING money at the end of it, when you own the vehicle and all your licenses!
(I owned mine, outright, instead of selling my soul to a company and letting them play company store to keep me on the neverending debt hamster wheel)

Anyhow, sorry for the topic drift, and I'll get back on topic in a moment here, will hammer out the next piece over breakfast...

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Friday, March 18, 2011 5:51 AM

Ok, lotta ground to cover, spent quite a bit of last night thinkin bout this...

Firstoff, I am not so entirely sure in that situation a firearm would have done as much good as you think, again I refer to you Mr. MacYoung, and why that would be the case.
http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/five_stages.html

She likely missed intent completely, blew the interview - which means they had position, ergo if she did deploy and fire a warning shot, she would have been swamped from behind immediately, this is WHY badguys don't telegraph their intent if they can help it - that they mostly fail, and still manage to aggress is mostly due to parity of incompetence on behalf of them and their intended victims rather than any skill beyond picking easy targets, mind you.

And I am no great fan of warning shots - if the situation has gone far enough to involve a firearm, then you draw, aim and shoot, period... now, if, and only IF - in between the draw and the trigger pull the badguys decide to opt for discretion and get the hell out of dodge, THEN you hold the shot, move quickly at an angle while checking your six, and get your back up against a wall PRONTO, and call in backup of some kind immediately if you can at all do so.

Short ranged weapons, pistols, knives, zappers - they're not FOR waving around, they're for fucking up people who do not know you have them, and IMHO the *only* time a foe should see your weapon is after you have neutralized them with it, AND are a last-ditch line of defense only in the case of you being completely blindsided, or otherwise totally screwing up defensively because a fight avoided is a fight won completely.
Anything else, you are GOING TO GET HURT - whether physically, legally, or emotionally, you're going to take a beating no matter how effectively you resolve it, doing violence has its costs too, never forget it.

For children and/or the very puny, yes the .32ACP is a good choice, as is the .380ACP and even the .22LR - stay away from those crummy little Baretta .25ACP jobbers though, cause any range they're useful at, you don't wanna be in - for home use/defense, a 20Gauge pump is a good go-to, and also useful for teaching the basics before you even get into pistols, Wendy loves that little Mossberg 500 street sweeper I got her, or you could opt for the HS410 version, which is specifically designed for a younger, novice user.

All that said, back to the point at hand - I don't think a firearm would have helped the situation much from a tactical perspective, and also, the notion that if you drop one the rest will break is mostly true, BUT NOT ALWAYS - counting on that myth has gotten a lot of people killed by enraged, cracked-stoned homies, don't let one of em be you - if you're gonna start shooting, shoot EVERYBODY who hasn't fled or turned to flee, as rapidly as possible while moving at an angle to keep your back clear and present a harder target.

The girl had two better tactical options, neither of which is mutually exclusive - the first and less effective is that ear-wrecking, soul-crushing, piercing shriek they can make, I would not normally have mentioned this but when Wendy demanded piano lessons our compromise was a chorus class, and she got the notion of using that banshee wail defensively and teaching it to the other girls both to improve their singing ability, and as a basic defensive measure which can be taught even despite the learned helplessness conditioning by exploiting trope consciousness - we all know the horror movie howl, right ?
Take that and weaponize it - seriously, a well practiced shriek of THAT volume and range is almost outright paralysing, and it *WILL* draw tremendous amounts of attention, resources, and possible rescue in damn short order cause it CARRIES, hoo boy does it... and seems to trip up all manner of instinct-reflexes which can screw up and befoul an aggressors responses, if not outright stun/confuse him for a second or two.

Which leads us to her best tactical option, headlong flight.
There are damn few things in this world which can keep up with a youngster of either gender on the fly, they WILL beat you on the takeoff, and good freaking LUCK keeping up with and/or catching them once they've gotten ahead - it just ain't gonna happen, they're lighter, faster and more agile, and once the fight/freeze/flight response kicks fully over into "flight", the fear and adrenalin is like a damn rocket booster.
(Heavens help us, Kira is taking track this year, that's gonna be a sight!)

Ain't no way in hell your typical lazy crack/pot smokin, beer swilling redneck/homeboy/other is going to keep up, and past the initial rush, no damn reason they'll try, especially not if the kid beelines for a populated area with lots of witnesses and potential law enforcement presence, oh hell no - even dimwitted crooks realize that's as stupid as jumping in the lake after a fish breaks your line, and will seek other prey.

Personal defense isn't ABOUT winning an engagement head to head, it's ABOUT avoiding one if possible, subverting one in progress, and surviving in as good condition as possible if it really does come to that, a whole package which does NOT involve focusing on one tiny part of it and not realizing that in order to GET to that point, you had to "walk down the garden path" right into it, clueless, condition green, HUA zone, whatever you wanna call it.
http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/WIMS.htm#violence
Rule #1: YOU DON'T LET IT GET THERE.

Which brings us to the essential problem - I damn well meant it when I said you could have slapped a combat loaded, cocked and locked M92F in the kids hand and it wouldn't have done a whit of good, NOT because of a lack of training, but because she very likely would have been mentally/emotionally UN-ABLE to use it.

Once again, we condition children not to resist OUR aggressions and invasions, and this has certain consequences, as it is exploited by criminals, and point of fact, police and governments, which I consider much the same thing...
(See that rant about You-Fight-NOW ? consider it SHOULD apply to a false arrest, cause once you are wholly in their power, *anything* can happen to you, yes ?)
...because children do not accept (yet) all the lies and bullshit and justifications we use to convince ourselves that THIS act of aggression is "okay" and THAT act of aggression isn't, they don't buy that for a minute and factually, neither should we.

Case example: the FLDS was accused of improperly sexually touching minor females, right ?
Explain to me how a forced pelvic exam by a stranger, at as close to gunpoint as makes no nevermind, on a very religious minor female who's only "crime" is supposedly to be a victim of such aggression, based on accusations that were known to be primarily false WHEN the warrant was served - does not of itself constitute rape ?
Explain to me how that act, TO THE CHILD, differs in ANY material way, from what the State was accusing (rightfully, but in a fashion that violated due process of law) bad actors within that community of doing ?

It doesn't, and so when society teaches a child not to resist "approved" aggression against them, what it's really doing it conditioning them not to resist ANY aggression against them.
http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/2011/02/dont-resist-refrain-of-ra
pists-police.html
Which is one reason, if you choose to believe the official story, why a pack of asshats with boxcutters could kill 3000 people...

One thing to always keep in mind is that the same folk telling you "just hand it over, it's not worth your life", are the same folk who once told women the proper response to rape was to lie back and enjoy it.
I am rather especially pissed about this bit of purile IDIOCY because within 20 miles of here in the past week, three people have DIED taking that advice, one of them a shop owner, over something as ridiculous as hair extensions, he "cooperated with the robber" and got a bullet in the back of his head for his troubles.
http://www.freep.com/article/20110315/NEWS02/110315063/1004/news02/Pol
ice-Store-owner-shot-killed-hair-extensions-robbery
Rule #2: You never, EVER cooperate.

If they have the complete drop on you, which shouldn't happen, but life never quite goes according to the gorramn plan, sure - then you play along, and wait for a chance, most crooks are no good at this sort of thing, and will at some point fuck it up - remember, in order to shoot you, the little hole in the end has to be in line with some part of your body, and if it is NOT, well...
Sure, they might not shoot you if you cooperate, but then again they might, and do you really want to bet your life on the tender mercies of someone who has already displayed a flagrant disrespect for the law, social convention and your person ?

Factually, criminals DEPEND on that instant submission reflex, that meek compliance - how many times have you seen it happen, someone who for whatever reason does not possess that reflex, despite being in a poor tactical position and unarmed, carries the day even against an armed assailant, because when they *didn't* meekly comply, the criminal had a total OODA loop failure and stood there going "huh-what?" and had his ass handed to him as a result ?

Now imagine a society where NOBODY has that instant submission reflex, and you get the idea of why I consider a lot of arguments about crime in an Anarchist society to be ridiculous from the very start, but that's another topic for another time...

The point is, we train our children to BE victims - first our victims, then those of police and governments, everyone at some mental level is aware of this, but no one wants to discuss it, because they fear (and often rightly) what will happen if children ever do manage to properly assert their human and civil rights within our society, and if one DOES fear this so terribly, perhaps asking why that is might be a good idea.
Especially since I've made it undeniably clear that any successful violation of their rights eventually leads to the violation of ours - if you dispute it just try to get on a plane these days, and feel the bite of Zero Tolerance, and all that security theatre bullshit no one stood up against when it was directed at them.

So you wanna strike this problem at the root, that's where you have to start, remove the victim-conditioning from our society, and be prepared to fight tooth and claw against those who benefit from it every step of the way.

Now, back to the notion of firearms - as you all know, I don't believe in that "magic number" bullshit regarding the line between childhood and adulthood, for a fact I know some 13yr olds I would have no problem hunting small game with, and some folk in their 50's I wouldn't trust with a goddamn pellet gun - maturity and competence is a very, VERY individual thing, and you cannot classify it and pigeonhole it so easily.
If you wanna think that over from a different angle, think of all the people you know, and how many of em you think can't drive worth a shit, and then compare their ages - again, it's a very damn individual thing, innit ?
(I dunno about you, but most of MY hassles on the road come from either folk in their late 20's, or the elderly who refuse to admit they're not ok to drive no more.)

In answer to that, I am quite on board with at the very MINIMUM strongly encouraging training with a weapon, if not outright making it a condition of purchase in exchange for lawsuit immunity - primary reason I don't want that in the hands of Government is because they have a proven history regarding this (See Also: May-Issue vs Shall-Issue, Jim March, CCW Law) which shows beyond all doubt they cannot be trusted with it.

And there is indeed both precedent and legal basis for this requirement.

Quote:
A well regulated militia...

That means well armed, well trained - truthfully it's better to have the training and not the weapon, than the weapon and not the training, cause in a "situation", especially a wide-spread one, a total fiasco, there's many a case where you might wind up with one in your hands, anything from homeowners banding together, being deputized, whatever - and it damn well behooves you to know HOW to use it, does it not ?
(this excludes folks who have a deep philosophical or ideological objection, I'm okay with that.)
In fact, I wouldn't mind carrying that slightly further, cause I think any powerful, dangerous tool OUGHT to come with some training or proof-of-competence requirement, be it a shotgun, a bandsaw, or an earthmover, but I digress a bit...

Anyhows, I think competence and maturity should be more of a focus than magic-number bullshit, when it comes to issuing a CCW permit, especially since many of the college students around here have suffered bitterly for the lack of defensive options by an organisation that not only fails to protect them, but often protects itself at their expense - although there's ONE perp out there gonna be walkin funny for a while...
http://www.annarbor.com/news/ypsilanti-woman-escapes-from-man-who-trie
d-to-grab-her-in-parking-lot-police-say/
(Oh, HEY, they got him!)
http://www.annarbor.com/news/ypsilanti/ypsilanti-man-arrested-on-suspi
cion-of-trying-to-grab-19-year-old-woman-who-fought-to-get-away/
LMAO, I can see the APB now "Suspect may be clutching groin..." - the local PD has really stepped up since we held a big fucking hammer over their head during the funding brawl, honestly.

Oh, and just to counter the notion that folks never step up, THIS.

Crowd helps prosecutor stop would-be thief
http://detnews.com/article/20110318/METRO01/103180387/Crowd-helps-pros
ecutor-stop-would-be-thief

Quote:
"I was actually catching up to him because his baggy pants kept falling down."

Hint to 14yr olds trying to outrun a bunch of old geezers (Aged 54,61 and 36)...
Buy some suspenders first, if yer gonna wear clown pants.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Friday, March 18, 2011 6:19 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Reading more into the situation...

The girl apparently had on her social site webpage that she wanted to be a porn star.

1. The lawyer is using that as their defense. 2. What were the "parents" doing?

I still maintain that the neccessary tools are needed for those that actually ARE good people... so that they may at the very least, TRY to stop these kinds of things.

And yes, it IS ok to find that scene and try and end it by any means necessary.

Damn the consequences.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Saturday, March 19, 2011 5:30 AM

By the way, if you ever have to call 911, be sure to tell them in detail what's going on (of course), AND be sure to tell them that your next call is going to be to the local news station. That really tends to cut their response times quite a bit, if they think there's a race to see who'll respond first.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Saturday, March 19, 2011 5:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Reading more into the situation...

The girl apparently had on her social site webpage that she wanted to be a porn star.

1. The lawyer is using that as their defense. 2. What were the "parents" doing?

I still maintain that the neccessary tools are needed for those that actually ARE good people... so that they may at the very least, TRY to stop these kinds of things.

And yes, it IS ok to find that scene and try and end it by any means necessary.

Damn the consequences.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

Doesn't matter what an underage girl says on her facebook page. She's underage, and therefore CANNOT consent; ergo, it's rape.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Saturday, March 19, 2011 9:15 AM

http://front.moveon.org/the-convoluted-story-of-an-11-year-old-gang-ra
ped-in-cleveland-texas/?rc=fb.fan

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
By the way, if you ever have to call 911, be sure to tell them in detail what's going on (of course), AND be sure to tell them that your next call is going to be to the local news station. That really tends to cut their response times quite a bit, if they think there's a race to see who'll respond first.

Unless you're in Detroit, cause then the answer is going to be "fine, deal with it yourself!" and a dialtone... especially since 90% of our local media are a bunch of union busting, neofeudalist jackboot lickers of the lowest order whos take on the situation would be something on the nature of "how dare you expect your tax dollars to actually buy YOU anything, serf!" as they pocket government largess hand over fist.

Around HERE though, we source the budget differently so the Police can't loot it dry and leave the EMT and Fire services with no money, personnel or working equipment like Detroit - and any time the Police fuck with us we slash their budget, AGAIN - and don't you know this has improved their behavior and professionalism by leaps and bounds, especially as they are to some degree at this point in mutual competition with contract security providers.

Another advantage to that situation is this - because of a certain racism and economic classism, the local law couldn't give a fuck about your poor ghetto ass, and despite what it says on paper, a burglary in Ann Arbor takes response priority over a shots-fired here, you understand ?

Which is why most of our residents relay the call to me first, and if it's beyond our capacity to handle - if they get a call-for-service from ME, in a professional capacity, they know damn well it's a no-bullshit "situation" and they should push the response, especially if the situation in question is one that might need violent intervention, cause in THAT case imma be headed straight for the arms locker... and Forquet.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Saturday, March 19, 2011 12:31 PM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Earlier this week, New York Times reporter James C. McKinley Jr. published an article about an 11-year-old girl in Cleveland, Texas, who had been gang-raped in an abandoned trailer home by 18 young men and teenage boys. Oddly, McKinley decided to start with a quote from a local hospital worker that sympathized with the rapists:

“It’s just destroyed our community,” said Sheila Harrison, 48, a hospital worker who says she knows several of the defendants. “These boys have to live with this the rest of their lives.”

Things only got worse from there. Soon, the girl’s fashions became the story’s focus:

Residents in the neighborhood where the abandoned trailer stands — known as the Quarters — said the victim had been visiting various friends there for months. They said she dressed older than her age, wearing makeup and fashions more appropriate to a woman in her 20s. She would hang out with teenage boys at a playground, some said.

The New York Times’ ombudsman, Arthur S. Brisbane, responded to the public upset about the article, stating that “the outrage was understandable.” He went on to say that: “The story dealt with a hideous crime but addressed concerns about the ruined lives of the perpetrators without acknowledging the obvious: concern for the victim.”

Still, on March 16, The Huffington Post slammed The New York Times for “focusing on the adversity faced by rapists,” and then pointed out a new legislation in Florida being launched as a result of the Cleveland, Texas case.

State Rep. Kathleen Passidomo (R-FL) blamed the girl’s attire, stating that she was “gang-raped because she was dressed like a 21-year-old prostitute.” As told by Raw Story, she then proceeded to target the girls’ parents:

“And her parents let her attend school like that. And I think it’s incumbent upon us to create some areas where students can be safe in school and show up in proper attire so what happened in Texas doesn’t happen to our students.”

But the story doesn’t end there.

In a video from NBC News, Texas defense attorney James Evan said that the 11-year-old was a “willing participant” and said he’d heard that she had “been involved with as many as 28 [males].”

Yet there’s one thing that Evan missed: an 11-year-old is a minor, and cannot consent to sexual activity, says Margaret Hartmann on Jezebel.com.

The controversy has led to a petition on Change.org demanding that the New York Times apologize for the fact that their article focused on the rapists’ futures.

So why were all of the quotes in the original New York Times focused almost exclusively on the male rapists and not the young girl? Could it be because everyone in the town of Cleveland, Texas, is actually awful, suggests another article on the Huffington Post. Maybe. An Associated Press article quotes Angie Woods, a woman who lives in Houston but grew up in Cleveland. She sounds a lot like the woman quoted in the original The New York Times article:

“She lied about her age. Them boys didn’t rape her. She wanted this to happen. I’m not taking nobody’s side, but if she hadn’t put herself in that predicament, this would have never happened.”

Unbelievably, throughout the entire story, there’s surprisingly little focus on the young girl’s well-being and follow-up care except for a note in the AP story that the she has been placed in a foster home through Child Protective Services.

In the meantime, the residents of Cleveland, Texas have a lot to figure out.

The media makes me sick sometimes. Poor girl.

This is not a gun issue. Even if it was, 30 rounds wouldn't have made any more difference than 6.

We have gone over this before. There is no reason to own 30 rounds other than insurance against tyranny. None. So if tyranny is not a concern, then there is no reason period to own 30 rounds.

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Saturday, March 19, 2011 3:10 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

I had an outrageous discussion on another forum about a rape, where basically everyone pretty much blamed the victim for making herself a target. It sickened me, I can tell you, but clearly those attitudes are still common.

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Saturday, March 19, 2011 3:33 PM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

"This is not a gun issue. Even if it was, 30 rounds wouldn't have made any more difference than 6.

We have gone over this before. There is no reason to own 30 rounds other than insurance against tyranny. None. So if tyranny is not a concern, then there is no reason period to own 30 rounds."

I would argue that this IS an issue of tyranny.

There are places in our homeland where evil, darkness, horror, and subjegation are the norm.

Where this rape is not only tolerated, its encouraged.

You know me, you know I am against the governments interference in our lives.

But the flip side of it is that we cannot allow the animals to rule either.

SO YES. This is a reason to have a 30 round mag. YES, this is an issue of tyranny. YES, there will ALWAYS be a need for the most EFFECTIVE tools to combat (not only) governmental tyranny, but social-bottom tyranny.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Saturday, March 19, 2011 3:37 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Except that as someone pointed out, most rapes happen in private and the perp is known and possibly even trusted by the victim.

I don't think that in these circumstances guns would do much good.

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Saturday, March 19, 2011 4:04 PM

They might, Magons - but only to back up proper self-defense, which starts with recognizing a situation gone ugly and methods of evading or extricating onesself from them...

And sometimes the ability to back up "No! Leave me alone!" with something more than harsh language comes in handy.

Rarely does that require all that much ammo, however - which makes this whole discussion about two unrelated things, you ask me.

-F

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Saturday, March 19, 2011 4:58 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

You know I can honestly not think of a situation where any friend, family or associate would have benefited from being armed. I honestly can't. I've been burgarled several times, but I was never home. I did feel unnerved when it happened as I lived alone, and a firearm might have made me feel more secure, but it wouldn't have helped in reality. I have had friends who have been raped, but it was always one of those situations where things got ugly when they were alone with someone they knew, not likely to be a time when you've got a gun handy anyway. We had someone enter our home in the middle of the night when i was a child, but we were all so befuddled at the time, we probably would have shot each other. My brother did rush around brandishing his martial arts weapons in a largely ineffectual way.

I don't think my world is a 100 lightyears away from what happens in the US. Most crime happens in big cities, most assaults happen to and by young men, a lot of violence happens between people who know one another.

I think there is a perception that crime is always committed by some evil mastermind, who plots and plans and carries out his wicked ways unless hindered by the superhero who is armed to the teeth to protect the innocents. Isn't the truth that crime is often spontaneous, drunken or drug induced committed by people who are basically pretty thick, and pretty limited, looking for easy money or a quick thrill.

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Saturday, March 19, 2011 6:45 PM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
It sickened me, I can tell you, but clearly those attitudes are still common.

It's like the rape doesn't stop after the physical act. The degradation goes on like the energizer bunny.

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Thursday, March 24, 2011 9:31 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

Hey Frem, how old is Wendy now and how old was she when she came to you guys? I hope Kira is having fun in track, how long do you figure she'll be with you? Do you think she'll grow up to work there like Wendy if she stays on?

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Friday, March 25, 2011 12:31 AM

HARDWARE

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
"This is not a gun issue. Even if it was, 30 rounds wouldn't have made any more difference than 6.

We have gone over this before. There is no reason to own 30 rounds other than insurance against tyranny. None. So if tyranny is not a concern, then there is no reason period to own 30 rounds."

Actually, when I go to a range, I prefer to use the time I pay for shooting, instead of loading magazines. If I come with several loaded 30 rounders I don't have to reload. I can concentrate on my shooting.

There's a reason to own 30 round magazines aside from stopping tyranny. Which is a good enough reason by itself, but here's another.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

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Friday, March 25, 2011 1:44 AM

Soooo... Range owners are tyrants! It *IS* about tyranny, even at the range!

Kidding.

That's what I use 30-rounders for. Range time around here is $15/hr per person. I don't reload at the range.

But I also don't ever imagine the paper targets I shoot are "tyrants".

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Friday, March 25, 2011 3:04 AM

Riona, actual age is slightly in doubt due to the original situation and lack of paperwork and proper birth certificate, which was one hell of a mess to sort out given the way things went, they had to make a best guess of 11-12ish when we pulled her out, and her B-day is actually the abitrary date when the paperwork got sorted, which made her 18 last december, but thanks to neglect, malnutrition and closet kid syndrome she looked much younger than and looks like a child still - probably always will, and her lifespan will be substantially foreshortened due to this, but what annoys me the worst is that because of how she looks she will always need a caretaker - even *WITH* proper ID, she'll never be able to buy booze, smokes, M-rated games, R-rated movies, anything like that without some dickhead calling the cops, and if her eyesight didn't preclude driving, she'd be unable to do so without getting pulled over all the freakin time...

Cause we consider kids subhuman, and she looks like one - ergo no one will ever, EVER take her seriously or treat her with basic adult-level respect outside of our group, and this puny little neighborhood.
In fact I was concerned that no one would take her seriously enough to do the job, but they do, ESPECIALLY after cracking that guys pelvis with a sidekick, but I think mostly cause she's got my emergency line on single button speed dial and everybody knows it.

Ah, this'll amuse you though, of course since she's not allowed out in heavy snow any more, I had to pull her off when that huge blizzard a while back hit, and that crap was up to MY knees, and it got into my prosthetic leg and jammed it up into fallback mode, it was pretty horrible out there, total whiteout conditions, knee deep snow, high winds and more pounding down every minute - I got ONE round done, and it took twice as long as it should have, and I was in pretty rough shape, but imma stubborn jackass, you know ?

So she snatches my dismounted prosthetic leg, darts outside and chucks it up on the roof.
Annnnd THERE went the idea of doin rounds that night - For what it's worth, the property manager agreed with her, it was just too unsafe to be out there.

I tried to be mad at her, but you can't, not in the face of that damn soul-crushing STARE of hers, besides, she made hot chocolate!

Kira isn't one of ours, mind - she's just a local kid, I wound up friends with her family after running into them at the grocery store and being weirded out by her pyschotic energy level, seriously, she doesn't turn, she SPINS, she doesn't hop, she LEAPS, yadda yadda...

There's no physical cause for it, according to the family pediatrician that's just who and how she is, so they learned to make the best of it - her little brother is quite the serious type though, and often mortally embarrassed by her.

As of late they seem to be wondering if they CAN actually wear her out, heheheh, not only are they completely supportive (one could say almost pathetically eager) of her taking track, for her B-day she's getting a full package of DDR - thanks be HER room is downstairs!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dance_Dance_Revolution

My nephews sort-of-girlfriend was like this, but her shooting star was unfortunately cut off short, she was waiting for a bus and a car drifted out of its lane, which hit and killed her instantly...
I'm still more than a bit upset about that, since that is what always seems to happen to such people, and I have a certain theological bitterness about it.

The hilarious part of it all is that because of a shared interest in Anime (she's a big fan of Kodocha and Azumanga Diaoh) and that I know which ones are age appropriate AND where to get them without payin sixty bucks a pop, all the parents from their school are always having me find stuff for their kids - when K-On! is released here imma have to get like eight freakin copies.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Friday, March 25, 2011 5:03 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:

SO YES. This is a reason to have a 30 round mag. YES, this is an issue of tyranny. YES, there will ALWAYS be a need for the most EFFECTIVE tools to combat (not only) governmental tyranny, but social-bottom tyranny.

Hello,

There may be legitimate uses and needs for large capacity magazines, but your example fails to illustrate it.

What concerns me is that you imagine an alternative to this situation (one where the rape was public and a good person wanted to intervene) in order to make your point. And what did you imagine?

When your idealized scenario involves a lone gunman blasting away 18-20 people with a high-capacity magazine-fed semiautomatic, I do wonder about you.

I like to think you simply wish someone had been there to stop it, and so you create a fantasy where this happens. Where the girl is saved from this rape. We all wish it were so.

But I worry that you would not see such an intervention as a tragedy in itself: That you are talking about twenty dead men killed by a lone heroic gunman, and do not shudder at the horror of it.

"I wish I had been there," I can hear you thinking, "I'd have killed them all and put a stop to this."

It's time to stop and think, and realize that such an act would be the worst one of your life, and would haunt any good man until the end of his days. Even if it was the best idea he could come up with at the time.

Life is not a video game. Life is not a fun action movie. Life is not Hit Girl in a room full of mobsters. Those are fantasies. Fantasies are fine, but when you apply fantasies to real life, I have a concern.

If you can mow down a room full of people and grin about it, there is something wrong inside. It's not a dream come true. It's a nightmare.

The correct and ideal number of bullets needed to stop this rape? Zero.

That is the reality you should be striving to manifest into our world. Not Punisher-style antics that don't even relate to the news report at hand.

--Anthony

Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

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Friday, March 25, 2011 12:09 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Well said Anthony.

"This is WHY you need a mag that has 30 rounds."

Wulf, your hypothetical case of a well-armed gunman intervening in a case such as the one cited, strikes me as unlikely. Can you cite any real life cases where high-capacity magazines have actually been used (or the threat of them) to life-saving effect, when a victim needs saving? Because I can list several examples where high-capacity mags have been used to deadly effect in shooting sprees...

If for every rape victim we save we lose dozens of people in extra-lethal shooting sprees I would suggest to you these high-capacity mags are not worth it.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Friday, March 25, 2011 1:00 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
I still maintain that the neccessary tools are needed for those that actually ARE good people... so that they may at the very least, TRY to stop these kinds of things.

What you fail to grok is that the argument is a 30-round mag ISN”T “necessary” in that situation, which is what you were trying to say.

Quote:
This is not a gun issue. Even if it was, 30 rounds wouldn't have made any more difference than 6.

We have gone over this before. There is no reason to own 30 rounds other than insurance against tyranny. None. So if tyranny is not a concern, then there is no reason period to own 30 rounds.

I would say not even in case of tyranny, given a gun with 30 rounds, or numerous 30 rounds, won’t do shit against tyranny....don’t start, Wulf, we all know what you will respond.

Oh, shit, too late...I read further and see you already jumped on it. Poor Wulf...the world your head lives in must be a truly awful one to live in!

Anthony, you WONDER about Wulf? Haven’t you read the myriad times he’s voiced his enthusiasm about wiping out this or that person/group, his penchant for “nuke ‘em, nuke ‘em one and all” (generally speaking)? How have you come to miss that in all this time?

Quote:
Life is not a video game. Life is not a fun action movie. Life is not Hit Girl in a room full of mobsters. Those are fantasies. Fantasies are fine, but when you apply fantasies to real life, I have a concern.

If you can mow down a room full of people and grin about it, there is something wrong inside. It's not a dream come true. It's a nightmare.

’You’re trying to talk sense to someone who can’t hear it, and again you surprise me. We already know Wulf lives in a WORLD of video games, TV-and-move heroes, fantasies, etc. The thing is, I don’t think he WOULD be able to do what he so freely espouses...or maybe I just don’t want to believe he would. Fantasies are easy, and somehow Wulf finds it equally easy to carry them over into what he BELIEVES of real life.

KPO nailed it too (forgive me if I’ve not noticed, but it seems I haven’t seen a lot of you KPO, and it’s nice to see you again). Anyone trying to reason with Wulf on this issue is wasting their time...he can’t hear you...Wulf is a prime example of "my mind's made up, don't confuse me with the facts".

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Friday, March 25, 2011 9:06 PM