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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Of course it was AIPAC.
Via this front group.
http://www.rjchq.org/

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Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Do you feel Iran's development of a nuclear weapon is a grave threat to Israel?
me: no

Do you think that Obama's strategy for controlling Iran is too weak against Iran?
me: no

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Originally posted by dreamtrove:

I had to think about this one for a second, and then I decided it was a plea for funding for a propaganda machine to defame Iran, which poses no threat to Israel, IMHO, so: me: no.

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Originally posted by dreamtrove:
If AIPAC is handing out to the christian groups that it supports lists of names of all the people of Jewish descent in this country, that would seem to show a staggering ignorance of history.

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Rap

Gee, I dunno. Any state which funds Hamas and Hezbollah, has stated that it's goal is to erase Israel off the face of the map, seems pretty much a threat to me.

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Originally posted by dreamtrove:
I got this call from 202 292 2568

As a member of jewish community do you feel the need to defend israel against its enemies?
me: yes

Do you feel Iran's development of a nuclear weapon is a grave threat to Israel?
me: no

Do you think that Obama's strategy for controlling Iran is too weak against Iran?
me: no

Do you think it is necessary to educate the jewish people of the immediate threat posed to Israel by Iran?

I had to think about this one for a second, and then I decided it was a plea for funding for a propaganda machine to defame Iran, which poses no threat to Israel, IMHO, so: me: no.

Does anyone know who these guys are? I couldn't find them. I would like to register my opinion, which didn't seem to be in their poll, that Iran represents no threat to Israel unless our dumb asses attack them, in which case, sure, it does... but the existence of a military machine does not itself pose a threat if you're not at war with it.

Engaging Iran greatly increases the likelihood of Israel being destroyed. Ignoring Iran completely makes that chance fairly slim. Actively negotiating in a positive way with Iran can potentially remove that threat.

I think that the poll will take my result as opposition to Israel, but I think anyone who truly supports Israel does not want to see it destroyed in an utterly pointless war with nation which is, lets face it, far more powerful than Israel.

While I'm ranting, a word about my feelings towards Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Iran has been attacked by US, British and Israeli forces many times over the course of this war, and has staid its hand. They have to know that they have the military power to remove Israel from the map whenever they choose, and have chosen not to do so.

While I'm still ranting, a word about Israel: The exact same could be said about Israel's behavior towards Palestine: Israel is vastly more powerful than Palestine and could at any point remove them from the map, and has chosen not to do so.

Now, applying some backwards logic: I know *why* Israel has not eradicated Palestine. Israel holds every jewish life to be sacred, more or less ;) but that is their operating premise. Ergo, while they would like to displace the Palestinians and claim that land as part of Israel, they have not done so militarily because the cost would be greater than zero. A lot of Israelis might die, esp. if some foreign power entered on the Palestinian side, even if it was just to arm the Palestinians.

What reason, if any, do I have to assume that the Iranians are not applying the same logic to their own country? Sure, they see Israel as a threat, and would like to see it gone. But yes, they also recognize that this cannot be done without a serious cost in Iranian lives. It's not *that* important to them that they're willing to sacrifice part of Iran or risk a global war to remove a threat which may be, from their perspective a wasp buzzing around their head.

So, sure, Iran sends militia groups into Israel and they get shot. Israel sends fighter planes into Iran, and they get shot down. Maybe there's a better solution, like, you know, they could talk it out, and say "Hey, you're all the way over here, and they're all the way over there."

And talks might go like this:

Israel: Stop arming palestinians.
Iran: If we don't defend palestinians, I won't get re-elected in Iran.
Israel: Yeah, but you don't have to arm them to shoot jews. You could help Palestinians resettle in Iran, your people would support you in that.
Iran: Yes, they probably would, but that would cost a ton of cash, and we're on a tight budget.

Israel... Hmmm... gnaws that one over.

But that talk never happens if no one talks.

If Israel pushes the US or UK or EU into helping it take down Iran, Israel is getting nuked. If you want to defend Israel, then a path of action that does not end in them getting nuked is a good defense.

Iran is difficult, but not unreasonable. It's a subtle difference. It would be disingenuous to not describe Israel itself similarly. Negotiations would be difficult, but then, they always are. It might involve taking risks and making sacrifices. Perhaps true cowards go to war.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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