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REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
The early Great Deceiver gets the loot
Monday, April 4, 2011 7:30 AM
KANEMAN
Monday, April 4, 2011 7:34 AM
NIKI2
Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...
Quote:We've always known that lasting change wouldn't come quickly or easily. It never do
Monday, April 4, 2011 7:52 AM
STORYMARK
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: Assinine post.
Monday, April 4, 2011 8:15 AM
Monday, April 4, 2011 8:24 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: Quote:We've always known that lasting change wouldn't come quickly or easily. It never doYup. Much as you like to blame Obama for everything and forget the enormous burden he came into, the fact is that change IS taking place--not enough and not fast enough--but I find it amazing that as much of the economy has turned around in such a short time, something you and your buddies are quite happy to ignore. As to "getting the loot", every candidate gets funds for election or re-election; the President is no different. And I still maintain that "Great Deceiver" applies to Bush FAR more than to Obama, or most Presidents throughout history. Assinine post. Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani, Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”, signing off
Monday, April 4, 2011 8:32 AM
Monday, April 4, 2011 10:08 AM
HARDWARE
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: Quote:We've always known that lasting change wouldn't come quickly or easily. It never doYup. Much as you like to blame Obama for everything and forget the enormous burden he came into, the fact is that change IS taking place--not enough and not fast enough--but I find it amazing that as much of the economy has turned around in such a short time, something you and your buddies are quite happy to ignore. As to "getting the loot", every candidate gets funds for election or re-election; the President is no different.
Monday, April 4, 2011 5:02 PM
FREMDFIRMA
Tuesday, April 5, 2011 6:28 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Fremdfirma: Hell, I made the Carter comparison afore he even got elected, cause I knew what'd happen... Thing is, in order to be afraid, he'd have to have something TO be afraid of it, and certainly the so-called opposition hasn't much to offer on the pathetic mourners bench of would-be potentials, downright wince-worthy, that. Nor does his own party have any effective replacement cause they're a bunch of gutless pansies, all full of piss and wind, and not much else. What rooks me worst is that such are prime conditions for tyranny, cause eventually the people will wind up supporting even a jackboot in hopes they will "Do Something!" - and then find to their horror, indeed they will, just not anything they wanted (or in some cases, EXACTLY what they "wanted", see my previous comments on that), and so forth, and so on. Me, anytime someone says someone should "Do Something", my first thought is well shit, I'm Somebody - only yanno, without the resource and power base of a career politician, tho... For now. You could do worse, yanno.
Tuesday, April 5, 2011 7:15 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Hardware: I am agreeing with you that when people get sick enough of the status quo they will elect a radical.
Tuesday, April 5, 2011 7:55 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Storymark: Quote:Originally posted by Hardware: I am agreeing with you that when people get sick enough of the status quo they will elect a radical. Which brought us the great teabagger election last year. "I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
Tuesday, April 5, 2011 8:33 AM
Tuesday, April 5, 2011 8:52 AM
Tuesday, April 5, 2011 10:01 AM
Quote: What, exactly, were the obstacles to his implementation of "Hope" and "Change"? The republicans could offer no real obstacles. Remember? Not enough representation to filibuster? If there's a failure to implement something it has to fall on the democratic leadership.
Quote:Thing is, in order to be afraid, he'd have to have something TO be afraid of it, and certainly the so-called opposition hasn't much to offer
Quote: cause eventually the people will wind up supporting even a jackboot in hopes they will "Do Something!" - and then find to their horror, indeed they will, just not anything they wanted
Quote:If the government shuts down, only the democratic neo-feudalists will be in jeaopardy from their serfs revolting come next election time.
Quote:A majority of Americans disapprove of Republican efforts to defund the health care law, according to a recently released CBS News poll. The survey found that 55 percent of adults across the country disapprove of plans to defund the health care law.
Quote:About 60% of respondents to surveys conducted by Gallup and PPP said they didn't want to see the government temporarily shuttered. But if a shutdown does occur, polls have shown more Americans would pin the blame Congressional Republicans than on Obama.
Quote:When it comes to dealing with issue No. 1, the economy, Obama has an advantage: 46 percent say they put more faith in the president, 34 percent say so about congressional Republicans. Obama has a similar 12-point lead on the question of who better understands the economic problems people face, and a nine-point edge on dealing with the deficit. Among those who say a government shutdown would be harmful, about twice as many say they would hold the GOP, rather than the president, responsible.
Quote:Over all, 55 percent of Americans, including 53 percent of independents and 69 percent of Democrats, want lawmakers whose views they agree with to compromise. But 50 percent of Republicans, including 56 percent of conservative Republicans, want lawmakers who share their views to stand by their principles, even if that means the government will shut down. On the economy, trust in the GOP among independents dropped from 42 percent in January to 29 percent in the new poll.
Tuesday, April 5, 2011 10:40 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: Bullshit. The Republicans filibustered EVERYTHING, deliberately, which kept virtually anything from being accomplished. They accomplished a few things anyway, and had to fight like hell to get health care (and it’s not what they or we wanted in the end), but when one party is REQUIRED to have a 60-vote majority to pass ANYTHING, it doesn’t matter what they want to accomplish; they can’t. In the past, parties compromised with one another, that allowed things to get done, even if they ended up being modified from the original bill (which is a good thing, in my opinion). But no more, for the Republicans and Tea Partiers; their entire credo is “NO!”
Quote: When he declares means nothing. As Frem said, Quote:Thing is, in order to be afraid, he'd have to have something TO be afraid of it, and certainly the so-called opposition hasn't much to offerEven Republicans are admitting they’ve got a poor slate of candidates, and are worried they can’t beat him unless someone charismatic shows up to grab the field. If they’d ONLY be so kind as to nominate Palin or Bachmann, it would be swell, Obama would sail though...Quote: cause eventually the people will wind up supporting even a jackboot in hopes they will "Do Something!" - and then find to their horror, indeed they will, just not anything they wantedYou mean like Walker? He conned the electorate by saying he was going to “do something about the economy”...I don’t think they’re all too thrilled with what he MEANT (but didn’t say) by that... Story’s absolutely right; it was fear and anger that brought the Tea Party their elections, and you don’t get much more radical than them! Talk about tyranny, imagine what would happen if they actually got power! Thank gawd the majority of the American people didn’t buy into it and now won’t buy into it because they’re daily showing themselves for just how radical they ARE. The Tea Party can win all the nominations it wants, now that people have gotten an earful of their ideological stubbornness and seen what they’re about, I doubt they can win many elections...certainly not a national one!
Quote: Story's not bitter, Hardware, that’s your (deliberate?) interpretation. She’s made a snark...the fact that it’s an ACCURATE snark makes it even better. Amusing that you seem to take PRIDE in the Tea Party being radical...Quote:If the government shuts down, only the democratic neo-feudalists will be in jeaopardy from their serfs revolting come next election time.He made a funny... Government works by COMPROMISE; without it, nothing happens. The novice Tea Baggers haven’t gotten that, and trust me, the Dems having compromised so much already and the Tea Party keeping the Republicans from doing so will bring it down on THEM, nobody else. Wait and see.
Quote:
Tuesday, April 5, 2011 11:41 AM
Quote:A simple majority vote no longer suffices to pass major pieces of legislation. Instead, in almost every case, the Senate must muster at least 60 votes (a “supermajority”) to close off debate. Historically, the filibuster was a last-ditch tactic used by an obstructionist minority to prevent passage of a bill by taking advantage of Senate rules that permitted unlimited debate. A measure would simply be “talked to death.” It was widely regarded as misuse of the rules, and was used sparingly. In the entire 19th century, including the struggle against slavery, fewer than two dozen filibusters were mounted. In F.D.R.’s time, the device was employed exclusively by Southerners to block passage of federal anti-lynching legislation. Between 1933 and the coming of the war, it was attempted only twice. Under Eisenhower and J.F.K., the pattern continued. In the eight years of the Eisenhower administration, only two filibusters were mounted. Under Kennedy there were four. It was during the Clinton years that the dam broke. In the 103rd Congress (1993-1994), 32 filibusters were employed to kill a variety of presidential initiatives ranging from campaign finance reform to grazing fees on federal land. Between 1999 and 2007, the number of Senate filibusters varied between 20 and 37 per session. The routine use of the filibuster as a matter of everyday politics has transformed the Senate’s legislative process from majority rule into minority tyranny. Nevertheless, the use of the filibuster as an everyday tool of legislation stands the idea of democratic government on its head. Instead of majority rule in the Senate, the tyranny of the minority prevails.
Quote:One of the things that stands out for me is that both times the Democrats have taken over the Senate, there has been a large spike in cloture votes in their first year in power. But both times the Republicans took over the Senate, the number of cloture votes during their first year in power was quite close to the previous year's. Further evidence -- as if any is needed -- that the Republicans try to win at any cost, while the Democrats try to respect process. In an ideal world, where there were consequences for bending or breaking the rules, I would admire the Democrats for their high-mindedness. But in this world, where the media and pundits reward winning rather than rule-following, the Democrats just look like suckers and fools.
Quote:The Republicans of the US Senate have performed 77 filibusters during the current session. This count breaks the previous record of 58 filibusters previously held by the 1999-2002 Senate terms.
Quote:The approval rating for the 2-year-old movement fell to 32 percent in a CNN/Opinion Research corporation poll released Wednesday, the lowest it’s been since CNN first polled on the tea party in January 2010. Forty-seven percent of Americans, meanwhile, said they have an unfavorable view of the movement, a higher negative percentage than ever.
Quote:Fifty-two percent of the US public had an unfavorable view of "the political movement known as the Tea Party," the survey found, as opposed to only 35 percent who approved. The same poll conducted in September found that 45 percent disapproved of the movement, while 36 percent supported it. Last March, its favorable rating exceeded its negative by a margin of 41 to 39 percent. The shift may reflect a populace growing uncomfortable with the divisiveness of the tea party's designated leaders, such as former Alaska governor Sarah Palin, Fox News host Glenn Beck, and Minnesota Republican Michele Bachmann. Surveys have consistently found that tea party supporters, though independent in self-description, largely reflect the staunchest conservatives in the Republican Party.
Tuesday, April 5, 2011 12:01 PM
DREAMTROVE
Wednesday, April 6, 2011 2:44 AM
Quote: Leaving aside all the various personal insults (tho' it would be nice if you could actually "debate" without them)...
Quote: In the 2007-08 session of Congress, there were 112 cloture votes and some have used this number to argue an increase in the number of filibusters occurring in recent times. However, the Senate leadership has increasingly utilized cloture as a routine tool to manage the flow of business, even in the absence of any apparent filibuster. For these reasons, the presence or absence of cloture attempts cannot be taken as a reliable guide to the presence or absence of a filibuster. Inasmuch as filibustering does not depend on the use of any specific rules, whether a filibuster is present is always a matter of judgment.
Wednesday, April 6, 2011 6:52 AM
Quote: And you and story have already both played the card that marks your bitterness and hate. You see, anyone who uses the phrase "tea bagger" immediately gets marked down as a kool aid drinker. You have to work in the system because that's all you've ever known. I don't believe you could recognize a free choice if I dragged you to it and rubbed your noses in it. I feel bad for you.
Quote:You manipulate the argument and respond to only issues you want to.
Quote: I don't believe that the people who vote for the Tea Party candidates are represented in those polls
Quote: Second, children don't like taking medicine. I didn't when I was a child. But that does not mean that for their own health they need to be made to take the medicine.
Wednesday, April 6, 2011 7:38 AM
Quote: ...I also don’t believe you can get enough of the majority of Americans to back putting it into practice to get what you want.
Wednesday, April 6, 2011 10:01 AM
Wednesday, April 6, 2011 10:42 AM
Wednesday, April 6, 2011 2:50 PM
RIONAEIRE
Beir bua agus beannacht
Wednesday, April 6, 2011 2:58 PM
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