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REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
An example of "fiscally-responsible, small-government" Republican actions
Sunday, June 5, 2011 8:16 AM
NIKI2
Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...
Quote:Controversy over the measure was heightened by Scott's past association with a company he co-founded that operates walk-in urgent care clinics in Florida and counts drug screening among the services it provides. In April, Scott transferred his ownership interest in Solantic Corp. to a trust in his wife's name.
Quote:On the measure requiring public employees to undergo drug testing, Simon noted that public employees -- workers in city, county, state and federal government -- are protected by the Constitution and should not undergo "intrusive" drug testing without probable cause to believe a person is using drugs.
Quote:...he'll take the lawsuit to the Supreme Court if that's what it takes to implement a common sense policy that is appropriate and fair to taxpayers," Scott spokeswoman Amy Graham said in an e-mail.
Quote:Those who fail the required drug testing may designate another individual to receive the benefits on behalf of their children, and do not receive a refund for the test.
Quote:Other states have studied the issue and decided testing all recipients was not cost effective. Most states have drug assessment programs that do not include urine or blood tests. Some require drug tests from recipients who have been convicted of felony drug crimes. During debate about the law, critics pointed to a pilot testing program in Florida that was shut down in 2001 after it showed no significant difference in drug use between welfare recipients and the population at large. "The wasteful program created by this law subjects Floridians who are impacted by the economic downturn, as well as their families, to a humiliating search of their urine and body fluids without cause or even suspicion of drug abuse," said Howard Simon, executive director of ACLU Florida, in a statement.
Sunday, June 5, 2011 9:40 AM
FREMDFIRMA
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: Anyone care to debate this issue?
Sunday, June 5, 2011 9:45 AM
Sunday, June 5, 2011 10:31 AM
KWICKO
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)
Sunday, June 5, 2011 10:36 AM
Sunday, June 5, 2011 10:47 AM
Quote:Petitions to amend the Florida Constitution over the possible banning of birth control and abortions have been the center of debate in Tallahassee this month. The group behind the amendment, Personhood Florida, is a Christian-based movement run by volunteers. The group has the support of the American Life League, a Catholic anti-abortion organization based in Virginia that has filed amendments like this in more than a dozen other states. Pat McEwen, the co-sponsor of the proposed legislation and leader of the group, called the amendment pro-life. "Florida's constitution gives rights to persons, but it doesn't say who a person is," McEwen said. "We like to say [the amendment] is pro-life. It gives rights to all sorts of people." According to McEwen, the group wants to be able to have the amendment placed on the ballot in 2010. According to the amendment, the words "person" and "natural person" apply to all human beings, irrespective of age, race, health, function, condition of physical and/or mental dependency and/or disability, or method of reproduction, from the beginning of the biological development of that human being. It is the wording of the amendment that has critics opposing not only its legality, but its intentions as well. The problem lies with the line "the beginning of biological development," which McEwen defines as the moment the sperm and the egg meet. It could lead to the banning of most forms of female contraception, specifically birth control. Adrienne Kimmell, the executive director of the Florida Association of Planned Parenthood Affiliates, said she opposes the Personhood movement. She said that it restricts access to reproductive healthcare and would send women's health backward. "This is something that is being pushed by an extremist, fringe group nationally," Kimmell said. "We've seen these attempts and we know that they [American Life League and Personhood USA] failed." They have tried in Oregon, Montana and Georgia and failed to get it on the ballot. In Colorado, they were defeated in a 3-1 margin, when it was on the ballot." According to Erin Kettles, the director of marketing for UCF Health Services, the pharmacy fills out approximately 1,500 birth control prescriptions per month and the women's clinic writes nearly 1,300 prescriptions for birth control per month. Kimmel said that 98 percent of women use birth control at some point in their lives and nearly 1.7 million women are in need of birth control as it is a part of women's health. Ashley Lee, a senior women's studies major, decided to research the topic further after hearing about it on campus. Lee, who is also a member of the UCF chapter for the National Organization for Women, believes that if passed, the amendment would change women's lives as we know it. "I definitely think it is an absurd proposal because it is dangerous to women and to people as a governed body," Lee said. "Everyone has their own beliefs and it just seems that certain groups of people want to impose [their beliefs] on others or at least work really hard to impose it on others." "I think that Floridians are going to see this for what it is: an attempt by an extremist group to come in and amend our Constitution and by the government to intervene in our lives," Kimmell said. Even if the amendment were written into the state constitution, it would be in direct violation of Roe v. Wade, a 1973 Supreme Court decision that held the U.S. Constitution gave women the right to have an abortion. Moreover, a subsequent ban on birth control would go against Griswold v. Connecticut, which stated that the use of birth control was protected under the Constitution's right to privacy.
Sunday, June 5, 2011 10:49 AM
Sunday, June 5, 2011 1:38 PM
HARDWARE
Sunday, June 5, 2011 2:44 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Hardware: How about this? No aid, no testing. Sounds like a surefire way to reduce the size of government.
Sunday, June 5, 2011 3:33 PM
Sunday, June 5, 2011 3:46 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: I think he was saying "do away with both", yes? Not "if you don't get tested, you don't get ____" You probably got that and I'm misunderstanding your post...
Sunday, June 5, 2011 5:13 PM
Sunday, June 5, 2011 6:26 PM
Sunday, June 5, 2011 6:49 PM
Monday, June 6, 2011 1:55 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Hardware: After all, there's no place in the Constitution granting the government the power to provide for the indigent.
Monday, June 6, 2011 1:59 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Fremdfirma: What's becoming more and more clear is that all these anti-choice efforts are in fact a thin fiction behind which those responsible intend to roll back the clock and deprive women of ALL civil rights, once again placing them in the same category we unfortunately place folk who haven't reached "the magic number" - I mean, listen to these assholes, and they sound JUST like racists who don't wanna admit that's the core of their agenda, to them womens sufferage and the right to vote are an affront, to be rectified just as soon as they can put them in their place regarding their function as sex objects and baby makers. And yeah, verily, I think male-folk NEED to stand up and shout out on this one, because *I* consider it an affront to humanity that these dickheads are even allowed to gain so much as a single inch, cause if you think it through to the very fuckin END.... They'd have us all living in the caves again, wouldn't they ? Fuck that. -Frem I do not serve the Blind God.
Monday, June 6, 2011 2:26 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: Quote:Originally posted by Hardware: After all, there's no place in the Constitution granting the government the power to provide for the indigent. "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." It's all in how you read and interpret the words, isn't it?
Monday, June 6, 2011 5:05 AM
NEWOLDBROWNCOAT
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: Quote:Originally posted by Hardware: After all, there's no place in the Constitution granting the government the power to provide for the indigent. "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." It's all in how you read and interpret the words, isn't it? "Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill
Monday, June 6, 2011 7:58 AM
Quote: So, my general welfare, in not having to pay higher taxes has to take a back seat to people who won't earn for themselves?
Monday, June 6, 2011 9:11 AM
Monday, June 6, 2011 12:46 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Hardware: You know once upon a time, when a man got a girl in a family way they had an institution called a shotgun wedding. The man was going to stand up and do the right thing by that woman or her family was going to make sure he wasn't going to go on and do it with some other girl. This charming little cultural curiosity came about because the financial burden of providing for that child would have then fallen on her family. Now, thanks to welfare, the financial burden fall on the taxpayers! Let's have lots and lots of kids who never know who their father is! That'll be great! And if the mother has the desire to have more than a minimum income, minimum life, that child will have no adult supervision while mom is trying to make a better life!!! Awesome! Now who the fuck thought that was a good idea?
Monday, June 6, 2011 12:50 PM
Quote:I kind of hope some day you fall into desperate straits. That way you'll get to see how much assistance the government actually gets down to street level.
Monday, June 6, 2011 5:24 PM
Quote: But others are content to sit around and wait for Uncle Sugar to rescue them. I kind of hope some day you fall into desperate straits. That way you'll get to see how much assistance the government actually gets down to street level.
Quote: You don't offer any alternatives except to reach deeper into my pocket.
Wednesday, June 8, 2011 3:07 PM
RIONAEIRE
Beir bua agus beannacht
Wednesday, June 8, 2011 6:03 PM
Wednesday, June 8, 2011 8:04 PM
Thursday, June 9, 2011 7:13 AM
Thursday, June 9, 2011 7:51 AM
Thursday, June 9, 2011 8:50 AM
Thursday, June 9, 2011 1:04 PM
Friday, June 10, 2011 6:31 AM
Quote: If we lived in a culture and society where family took care of their own, where people did for each other, where we all looked after one another, then we might not need as much government assistance for those who need a bit of help. But as it stands now a lot of folks don't live in families and communities like that and so the assistance is necessary.
Quote: the appalling part of that, is how all of them refuse to countenence the notion that folks PAID INTO THAT SYSTEM, under what amounts to a contractual agreement that if injured/disabled, the Gov will return some of the money paid in (and you bet your ass they do so in direct proportion to what YOU paid into it, always skimming it down to the lowest possible level by any means necessary, up to and including downright lies) so that you can (kinda-sorta-maybe) survive until you are back on your feet...
Quote: Maybe the essential difference between us is I had it drilled into my head as a child that the government will not be there when you really need them. Or if they show up it will be half-assed and inappropriate.
Quote: I mean, taking someones joint of beef, chewing it to the bone and throwing it back is NOT a gift, nor is it any kind of act of benevolence cause we all know how public services budgets get robbed for pet projects and pork besides, don't we now ?
Friday, June 10, 2011 6:39 AM
Friday, June 10, 2011 6:41 AM
Friday, June 10, 2011 9:52 AM
Friday, June 10, 2011 10:02 AM
Quote:And yes, I realize that if the worst case scenario occurs we won't have the same standard of living that we currently enjoy, but we will have a living. And hopefully that will be enough.
Friday, June 10, 2011 4:56 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: DAMN! I tried going back to the old format to edit that for my colors/fonts, and there's not even an "edit" button for posts ON that format! This is ridiculous; I e-mailed Haken, but haven't gotten any response. Does anyone else have the problem that they are unable to edit in Beta or that there's no "edit" button at ALL in the original? It's getting VERY frustrating...!
Friday, June 10, 2011 6:22 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Hardware: I've resigned myself to the fact that I will not be retiring. I'll work until I drop in the harness. Who I work FOR that is the important part. Something I will share is that I am looking to have a farm before too much longer. I'll leverage it against my IT work so I have an income stream while I am setting up. I hope to have enough acreage to support a significant portion of my immediate family. Sounds too much like a commune. Let's call it a freehold. Anyhow, I don't believe the government has figured out a way to tax you on food and livestock you raise and consume yourself... yet.
Monday, June 13, 2011 7:56 PM
Tuesday, June 14, 2011 2:20 PM
Tuesday, June 14, 2011 2:24 PM
Tuesday, June 14, 2011 4:58 PM
Quote:“You don’t need to know. You can’t know.” That’s what Kathy Norris, a 60-year-old grandmother of eight, was told when she tried to ask court officials why, the day before, federal agents had subjected her home to a furious search. The agents who spent half a day ransacking Mrs. Norris’ longtime home in Spring, Texas, answered no questions while they emptied file cabinets, pulled books off shelves, rifled through drawers and closets, and threw the contents on the floor. The six agents, wearing SWAT gear and carrying weapons, were with - get this- the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. Kathy and George Norris lived under the specter of a covert government investigation for almost six months before the government unsealed a secret indictment and revealed why the Fish and Wildlife Service had treated their family home as if it were a training base for suspected terrorists. Orchids. That’s right. Orchids.
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