Sarah Palin's not running, is she. by kpo

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Sarah Palin's not running, is she.

POSTED BY: KPO
UPDATED: Friday, June 24, 2011 14:38
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Tuesday, June 21, 2011 4:14 AM

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

My opinion. It's just not happening. Difficult to admit, as her biggest fan. What do others think?

We keep hearing that she's "yet to make up her mind". I think she's just delaying the inevitable not-running announcement to milk the media attention for as long as possible.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Tuesday, June 21, 2011 5:20 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Yup, you got it. And not just the media attention; as long as she gets so much attention, her speaking fees are hefty. If she quietly slunk into obscurity, she wouldn't be asked to speak or get any attention.

It's all about the money, that's been pretty obvious almost from the start. AND the attention, admittedly, and the "power" she wields. But she'll not run; too much work, if you ask me, even tho' it would increase all of the above. Or maybe not; the media certainly treats her like a viable candidate and gives her MORE attention than any number of the actual ones.

How you can even conceive of her running this country boggles my mind, but I know you're not alone. At least you're smart enough to see what's really going on, you get points for that. Not many, in my book, because it's FAR outweighed by you actually wanting her to win, but I'll give you points anyway.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Tuesday, June 21, 2011 5:28 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
We keep hearing that she's "yet to make up her mind". I think she's just delaying the inevitable not-running announcement to milk the media attention for as long as possible.

She's using the not-running/running strategy afforded to some by our long campaign season.

If no consensus candidate arises she can enter late as an immediate front runner. Remember Fred Thompson in the last election or Gen. Clark in the one before that.

Both played the late entry card but were crippled by poor preparation likely because the best campaign talent was already gone. The initial front-runner surge of their late entries fizzled with poor execution, lack of money, and lackluster performance on the trail or in debates.

In this case Palin has been running a shadow campaign with fund raisers, rallies, and tours. They show an ability to plan and execute a campaign, an experianced staff, and a polished message that was not evidenced in the previous examples. I think this has been her strategy since 2010 and a shows a political depth that most people assume she did not have, people who forget how she became Governor of Alaska.

In short I do not think she is running, but she is prepared to run and win if the opportunity presents itself. I suspect she could hold off till November if neccessary raising money and dodging most political attacks (from her Republican competition anyway)the whole time. If Romney surges too much she might need to decide sooner, but she could easily play Obama to Romney's Hillary.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I would rather not ignore your contributions." Niki2, 2010.

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Tuesday, June 21, 2011 5:40 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
How you can even conceive of her running this country boggles my mind,

I'm not surprised.

You look at her and see stupid, incompetent woman from Alaska who has too many babies and says stuff you don't agree with.

I look at her and see capable and effective professional woman with the proper experiance and who says stuff I agree with.

Can she run this country? Can anyone run the country? There is no way to know until they are doing it, but we have to look at the background of the people involved. Palin has a successful background at every level of government and in her personal and professional life. She should be able to do the job as well as anyone. Can she? Time will tell.

By comparison Obama brought very little professional administrative experiance with him to Washington, and it shows in his management style and generally lackluster policies and political management. But he is a great campaigner who throws a great party, which is likely why he's done 30 fundraisers, ten times more then Bush did by this point in his Presidency. I sometimes wish he put as much time into his job, but given his overall performance, maybe the more he does other things the better for all of us.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I would rather not ignore your contributions." Niki2, 2010.

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Tuesday, June 21, 2011 6:06 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Hero, you have raised my hopes. But I still think she's not running.

Niki, I don't want her to win, or think she should run the country! I'm being cheeky. My wanting her to run is a combination of things:

1. I think she would hand the election to the Dems and Obama. I think she would unravel, implode, crash and burn, any other suitable metaphor. This is actually why I think she won't run: she would be putting the Palin brand at risk.

2. If she wins, if I'm wrong about her ability to survive an election campaign and not implode - then oops, but it's not my country... I'm reasonably safe over here. But I will sympathise and apologise for wishing her upon you

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Tuesday, June 21, 2011 7:39 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:

If no consensus candidate arises she can enter late as an immediate front runner. Remember Fred Thompson in the last election or Gen. Clark in the one before that.

I think I speak for the entire country when I say... "Who?"

Sarah Palin is a fart in a windstorm.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Tuesday, June 21, 2011 8:02 AM

DREAMTROVE

Mike has a point, however eloquently put, those who have used the strategy before have not done well.

Hero is right, she's saving money by waiting.

I think she'll run, but it's a little late, there are already debates. (How quickly the debates moved back)

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Tuesday, June 21, 2011 8:11 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Apologies, KPO, I thought you were serious. Me, I wish she’d WOULD win the nomination, ‘cuz I agree with your #1 and don’t believe for a second in #2. It would destroy all my hope that this country HAS any common sense, and I still believe enough of us do that she’s not a threat, just a joke. Bt I’m not worried about her winning as Prez, just kinda disappointed that she won’t actually put the effort into running. It would just be such FUN (although embarrassing for America)!

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Tuesday, June 21, 2011 8:13 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Hero: I’m not the slightest bit surprised you’re a fan of Palin, from even the little I’ve read from you.

Quote:
You look at her and see stupid, incompetent woman from Alaska who has too many babies and says stuff you don't agree with.

Gee, that's strange, and here I thought I knew what I see. I thought I saw her as an IGNORANT (quite different from stupid), self-agrandizing woman who’s making the most of the situation for her own profit. I don’t think she’s stupid, and we can’t know how competent she would be, given she never finished her one term as governor (which I also attribute to it being easier to be a celebrity than actually do the work of governor).

You should look into her record and how she behaved for the short time she was in office before lauding her as a “capable and effective professional woman with the proper experience”. There’s apparently a lot you don’t know about her, including how she became governor and her record AS governor.. I think the fact that she says things you like as the reason you like her, something she’s proven herself very adept at doing for her base.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Tuesday, June 21, 2011 10:15 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

I don't think she's going to run. Her approval sunk way too far after her reality show (and it's a sad commentary on the country that having a reality show is more damaging than walking away from a post and fumbling around with American History that every child is taught)

No, I think the front-runner at this point is probably Romney. I personally can't wait for his particular religious beliefs to be out under a magnifying glass. "Mister Romney, is it in fact your opinion that if we are pious, we get our own deityhood on another planet?"

What reason had proved best ceased to look absurd to the eye, which shows how idle it is to think anything ridiculous except what is wrong.

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Tuesday, June 21, 2011 12:34 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Poor Romney, I actually quite like him (for real this time Niki

); but I sense America wouldn't elect a Mormon president... :-/

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Tuesday, June 21, 2011 12:45 PM

BYTEMITE

>_>

My family is mormon. While an accurate assessment of their beliefs, most of our presidents have various sects of protestant christian, which is an equally unfathomable kind of religion. So is Buddhism.

I think there are far bigger complaints to make against Romney than his religion.

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Tuesday, June 21, 2011 12:46 PM

DREAMTROVE

Colbert made a good point about this actually being an aristocracy of succession and that it would be Romney because he's next in line, like McCain was, and I can see that about Dole, Bush, Ford, and also some on the other side, a decent number of choices seem to follow that. Democracy is largely an illusion. The king has been overthrown by jesterly fools and the power of the people shall come to believe they do rule.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Tuesday, June 21, 2011 12:49 PM

PENGUIN

King of the Mythical Land that is Iowa

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Tuesday, June 21, 2011 1:06 PM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Mike has a point, however eloquently put, those who have used the strategy before have not done well.

I think you meant "ineloquently". My Texan was showing through. :)

She's not running for President because it would get in the way of her making money.

Quote:

Hero is right, she's saving money by waiting.

Nope, she's MAKING money by teasing people about it. She keeps being coy about it, and not answering, all the while counting the long green and laughing all the way to the bank.

Quote:

I think she'll run, but it's a little late, there are already debates. (How quickly the debates moved back)

She'd go better if she waited until AFTER any debates before entering the race!

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Tuesday, June 21, 2011 2:42 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER

Quote:
No, I think the front-runner at this point is probably Romney. I personally can't wait for his particular religious beliefs to be out under a magnifying glass. "Mister Romney, is it in fact your opinion that if we are pious, we get our own deityhood on another planet?"

Because a person's faith is the best measure of whether they can do a good job, right? But should that really matter? According to PirateNews they're all jews anyway...

Quote:
She's not running for President because it would get in the way of her making money.

I think this is the most likely scenario.

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Tuesday, June 21, 2011 5:47 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

It always bothered me that she quit in the middle of her governor term, that doesn't say good things to me about reliability. My dad makes excuses for her because he likes her, but even he decided he didn't want her to be the president after her reality miniseries hit TLC. I agree that her feined vacilating about whether to run is a way to keep her in the spotlight, she's got a good gig goin and so she wants to keep it goin, understandably, I mean, who doesn't like making lots o money?

Yeah, Mormons believe some ... unique ... things that don't make sense to me, but him being a Mormon isn't what would make me not want him to be the president. I wouldn't really mind having a Mormon president, it shouldn't matter as long as he can do the job. Mit Romney doesn't seem that great to me, he seems ... a bit off kilter in what he says and does, as in I don't really know how _he feels and how that translates into life for me and mine, some things he's done in office don't sit right with me but I can't quite remember what they are right now.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, June 21, 2011 6:51 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
Mit Romney doesn't seem that great to me, he seems ... a bit off kilter in what he says and does, as in I don't really know how _he feels and how that translates into life for me and mine

Here I go being all offensive again, but that's kind of part and parcel of the whole Mormon deal. I have yet to meet an emotionally honest Mormon. I've seen a few crash really hard after years of presenting themselves as perfectly blissful in all respects. One in particular took some serious mental gymnastics for him to function most of the time, and he just stopped being able to do it. I'm pretty sure he spent some time hospitalized, and he certainly spent time heavily medicated. (I don't even live in Utah, at the hub, I'm just on the outskirts of it.)
Yeah, Byte, it's actually not objectively any whackier than more, um, typical belief systems, but it hasn't had the benefit of time to smooth some of those edges. Older things (unfortunately) sound more plausible, so new whackiness sounds all the whackier, even to me. And yeah, I expect the spotlight to swing to that, because there are people (even devout from other churches) who will see some of it and think, "Well, you'd have to be crazy to believe that," so it is without a doubt the best way to damage his credibility, which is of course the aim of half the country for any presidential candidate.
And yeah, actually, I do think that certain belief systems can be a measure of the job someone will do as president. If someone has an intensive god complex, I wouldn't be comfortable with them running a country. And, you know, I can't think of a belief system more likely to draw in and nourish a god complex than one that says, "You'll get your own planet, where you will be a god." Just my opinion.

What reason had proved best ceased to look absurd to the eye, which shows how idle it is to think anything ridiculous except what is wrong.

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Tuesday, June 21, 2011 7:07 PM

BYTEMITE

That's more after they die and their conception of heaven, and also more to do with them being god/kings/patriarchs over the domain of their families, which are reunited in the mormon heaven.

So that's really not an issue in life. What you ought to be concerned about is that the mormons believe that god has had prophets after the apostles, and so they believe that anyone and everyone can talk to god and possibly be a prophet.

Most of the time this "talking with god" just comes out as the mormon in question feeling like they have a good relationship with god, and feeling compelled to constantly give testimonials about why they believe and why they think god is looking out for them.

But a few people have gone off the deep end and started believing they were actual prophets and acting very unusual. As an example, a guy who believed God had compelled him to take 14 year olds as his wives (multiple) so he kidnapped a girl from her own home, took her into the mountains, chained her up, raped her, and stuck her under a burqa like bedsheet for the next year while he dodged the law.

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Wednesday, June 22, 2011 6:01 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Romney's a monster.

Ask where the MONEY came from - and that's the least of the skeletons in his closet, which is gonna sink the current MI attorney general deep in a hole for endorsing him, something he learned only AFTER his dumb ass did it.

Remember, a good part of Romneys bankroll came from WWASPS - why don't you ask some of the survivors how they feel about the guy coasting into office on that money ?

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Wednesday, June 22, 2011 12:42 PM

KWICKO

So, back to Sarah Palin, this gem popped up today:

http://www.politicususa.com/en/sarah-palin-quit-paul-revere

Quote:
After Her Paul Revere Debacle Sarah Palin Quits Again

She did it again. Sarah Palin quit – halfway through. This time it was her highly touted One Nation “pay attention to me!” bus tour.

Yes, the magical mystery tour is over. And the Beatles tour had more hits.

And you can guess where she went. She took her toys and went home to Alaska. Don’t let the door hit you on your way out, Sarah! I’m sure she’ll get the love there that she didn’t get in the Lower 48. Right?

Apparently, not enough people were paying attention to Grifterella. Reaching a point of diminishing returns – and that is what truly motivates Palin is returns – she just quit, never having reached such key primary states as Iowa and South Carolina. If her eventual destination was Alaska, she sure took the long way around.

The story was broken by RealClearPolitics on Wednesday. They reported the event as an “ex tended hiatus” with the rest of her stops “in limbo.”

Quote:
Amid diminishing media interest, Sarah Palin has quit her high-profile bus tour halfway through and returned to Alaska with her family, according to “Palin and her family have reverted to the friendly confines of summertime Alaska.”

The “One Nation” tour launched with intense media interest, as reporters initially followed Palin and her family on the road, diligently trying to decipher the former half-term Alaska governor and ex-GOP vice presidential nominee’s 2012 intentions. But after being ignored and mislead and denied interviews or access, reporters’ attention fizzled.

We will have to wait and see whether she runs in 2012, or whether she runs and then quits halfway through that as well. This seems to be the one constant in Sarah Palin’s life: quitting.

Of course, she will probably portray the whole thing as planned, an interrupted vacation, or she will martyr herself, the victim of a gotcha media she refused to talk to. So I guess there are two constants in Sarah Palin’s life: quitting and self-victimization.

So, is she running? Yes. She's running away. Again.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Wednesday, June 22, 2011 11:28 PM

JAMERON4EVA

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
How you can even conceive of her running this country boggles my mind,

I'm not surprised.

You look at her and see stupid, incompetent woman from Alaska who has too many babies and says stuff you don't agree with.

I look at her and see capable and effective professional woman with the proper experiance and who says stuff I agree with.

Can she run this country? Can anyone run the country? There is no way to know until they are doing it, but we have to look at the background of the people involved. Palin has a successful background at every level of government and in her personal and professional life. She should be able to do the job as well as anyone. Can she? Time will tell.

By comparison Obama brought very little professional administrative experiance with him to Washington, and it shows in his management style and generally lackluster policies and political management. But he is a great campaigner who throws a great party, which is likely why he's done 30 fundraisers, ten times more then Bush did by this point in his Presidency. I sometimes wish he put as much time into his job, but given his overall performance, maybe the more he does other things the better for all of us.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I would rather not ignore your contributions." Niki2, 2010.

Well, if you look closely you'll see that a majority of the stuf Obama does fit more in with the V.P's style.

"Mom, he has her chip. He has her."
John Connor,"Born To Run", TSCC EP 2x22

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Thursday, June 23, 2011 10:07 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
So, is she running? Yes. She's running away. Again.

Palin expressed surprise at the news story since she has never shared a schedule, itinerary, starting or ending date with the press.

She also noted that she was responding to a summons for Jury duty. The liberals will say that its just an excuse...just like they'd say there is no excuse for missing jury duty had she chosen not to return.

On a side note, didn't Obama or Biden get a jury summons sometime last year? That's right, it was Obama in 2010. He chose not to go (something about giving the state of the union). I note for the record Bush was given a summons in 2006 and Reagan in the 1980s. Traditionally Presidents are allowed to defer until they are out of office. I note further Clinton was summoned in 1993 and was willing to serve but was dismissed by the Judge.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I would rather not ignore your contributions." Niki2, 2010.

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Thursday, June 23, 2011 3:24 PM

KWICKO

Quote:
...aides had drafted preliminary itineraries that would have taken her through the Midwest and Southeast at some point this month. But those travel blueprints are now in limbo, RCP has learned, as Palin and her family have reverted to the friendly confines of summertime Alaska...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/22/sarah-palin-bus-tour_n_882678
.html

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Thursday, June 23, 2011 4:57 PM

KANEMAN

Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
I don't think she's going to run. Her approval sunk way too far after her reality show (and it's a sad commentary on the country that having a reality show is more damaging than walking away from a post and fumbling around with American History that every child is taught)

No, I think the front-runner at this point is probably Romney. I personally can't wait for his particular religious beliefs to be out under a magnifying glass. "Mister Romney, is it in fact your opinion that if we are pious, we get our own deityhood on another planet?"

What reason had proved best ceased to look absurd to the eye, which shows how idle it is to think anything ridiculous except what is wrong.

Hilarious...the romney thing. That would be great.

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Thursday, June 23, 2011 6:24 PM

KWICKO

So WHY won't the Republicans listen to their base, and pay some attention to Ron Paul?

Yeah, he's an old crank, possibly a kook, but he actually does have some good ideas when it comes to the Constitution - and he knows that document from the Declaration of Independence!

Huntsman isn't being taken seriously by anyone, it seems, except the Obama campaign. They're smart not to dismiss him as quickly as mainstream Republicans are. Sure, there are things that will make the tea-party wing hate him - but those are also the same qualities that make him a danger to Obama. His associations with Obama, his respect for him, and some of his more progressive policy stands, are exactly the kinds of things that give frustrated Democrats pause, and make them think twice about voting for Obama again.

At this point, I'd probably vote for Ron Paul out of sheer frustration with our current President, and out of sheer cussedness and a "throw the bums out!" attitude. But I'm willing to at least listen to Huntsman.

The GOP can fire up their base no matter who they nominate; we all know that already. But to rile up the independents and the tea parties, they need something else.

Similarly, Obama will have his base, almost assuredly. But there are an awful lot of frustrated progressives out there (like me) who are just wondering if there's any point in voting at all.

Once in a generation, a candidate comes along who can really shake things up. Ross Perot did it in '92 - he fired up people who really didn't care about politics, because it was a matter of "Choose one: left or right" - and then you realize it's just the same guy holding two different puppets! That's politics in America, as the late great Bill Hicks pointed out.

Ron Paul probably can't win, and probably wouldn't be an effective President if he did. But what he can do, that nobody else seems willing to do, is lob a few well-placed grenades at some key choke-points in the system. And as the man they call Jayne once said, "Sure would be nice to have some grenades, huh?"

Texas is a closed primary state. You register for a particular party, and vote in only that party's primary. In other words, if you're a registered Democrat, you don't get to vote in the Republican party. I'm registering as a Republican this year, just to vote for Ron Paul in the primary. That means I'll be registered as a Republican through the 2012 election cycle, but it's not like there's going to be anyone running in a primary against Obama, so it's a chance for me to at least help pick a decent opponent to run against him!

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Thursday, June 23, 2011 10:18 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
so it's a chance for me to at least help pick a decent opponent to run against him!

I wish you luck with that one, considering the pathetic mourners bench of offerings they've sleazed out so far.

It's really gonna piss me off when Obama wins a second term by default, cause the circular firing squad otherwise known as the GOP can't find anyone within their ranks who isn't a complete goddamn scumbag... which oughta tell you something about their nature, you think about it.

Worse, is that without any competition, without any incentive, the fuckin Democrats have no reason to even hold up a pretense of answering to the will of the people, no reason to step up their game.

And so, as I said, barroom rules, yes ?
Cause the modern GOP is givin new meaning to the term DEAD weight.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Friday, June 24, 2011 1:43 AM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
so it's a chance for me to at least help pick a decent opponent to run against him!

I wish you luck with that one, considering the pathetic mourners bench of offerings they've sleazed out so far.

It's really gonna piss me off when Obama wins a second term by default, cause the circular firing squad otherwise known as the GOP can't find anyone within their ranks who isn't a complete goddamn scumbag... which oughta tell you something about their nature, you think about it.

Worse, is that without any competition, without any incentive, the fuckin Democrats have no reason to even hold up a pretense of answering to the will of the people, no reason to step up their game.

And so, as I said, barroom rules, yes ?
Cause the modern GOP is givin new meaning to the term DEAD weight.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

Indeed. And I *WANT* a good opponent for Obama. I *WANT* someone to hold his feet to the fire. I'm disgusted by his little bullshit ploy on Afghanistan - it's doublespeak if ever there was an example of it: put in 30,000 troops, then wait a year or so, pull out 5,000 to 10,000 of them, and claim you're "drawing down" troop levels and winding down the war, while leaving MORE soldiers there than were there when you started!

He says we'll pull 33,000 troops out by the end of next year. Great. That still leaves almost 70,000 there. To fight what incoming SecDef Leon Panetta says is FIFTY al Qaeda still in Afghanistan. Asymmetrical warfare, indeed.

But yeah, it certainly looks as if the GOP is poised to just hand it to Obama. Again.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Friday, June 24, 2011 2:38 PM

FREMDFIRMA

So finish em off, then.

I've long and long been waiting for Ron Paul to shit or get off the pot, and his affiliation with that party is in fact the reason I will not directly support him - you remember Molyneuxs parable about that, yes ?

Why check your hand over one guy who hasn't made a goddamn OUNCE of difference in well over a decade cause of clinging to a party affiliation that doesn't even mean what he would LIKE it to - that's just fekkin stupid, like letting a whole boat sink rather than pitching the luggage over the side to lighten the load - only the GOP is all luggage, dead fuckin weight, as far as any of his reformist intentions might go.

And see, this I do hold against him, cause it's every bit as bloody stupid as a black man fronting for the klan.

He might be that dumbfuck willfully-blind stupid, but you ain't, Mikey - why hand the scum a gimme just cause they dangle his old, foolish ass out there as bait to bulk up their party numbers ?

But then, also remember what my intentions toward them really ARE - and sadly, if he chooses to go down with the ship, so be it.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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