REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Republicans and the Constitution

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Saturday, July 2, 2011 05:40
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 2118
PAGE 1 of 1

Wednesday, June 29, 2011 7:13 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


We hear so much about "respecting" the Constitution and "abiding by" the Constitution from the right; so why are they constantly trying to amend it, while claiming Democrats don't respect it?
Quote:

Republican Rep. Paul Broun of Georgia won his seat in Congress campaigning as a strict defender of the Constitution. He carries a copy in his pocket and is particularly fond of invoking the Second Amendment right to bear arms.

But it turns out there are parts of the document he doesn't care for – lots of them. He wants to get rid of the language about birthright citizenship, federal income taxes and direct election of senators, among others. He would add plenty of stuff, including explicitly authorizing castration as punishment for child rapists.

This hot-and-cold take on the Constitution is surprisingly common within the GOP, particularly among those like Broun who portray themselves as strict Constitutionalists and who frequently accuse Democrats of twisting the document to serve political aims.

Republicans have proposed at least 42 Constitutional amendments in the current Congress, including one that has gained favor recently to eliminate the automatic grant of citizenship to anyone born in the United States.

The Republican proposals tend to be social and political statements, such as the growing movement to repeal the 14th Amendment's birthright citizenship. [Repubicans] routinely accuse Democrats of trying to subvert the Constitution and calls for respecting the document's "plain language". But widely supported Republican amendments would prohibit government ownership of private companies, bar same-sex marriage, require a two-thirds vote in Congress to raise taxes, and – an old favorite – prohibit desecration of the American flag.

During the health care debate, Rep. Pete Hoekstra, R-Mich., introduced an amendment that would allow voters to directly repeal laws passed by Congress – a move that would radically alter the Founding Fathers' system of checks and balances.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/23/republicans-hot-cold-on-c_n_6
90745.html


So if they respect it so much, why do they keep trying to amend it? Here are just 12 of the recent amendments they would like to have:
Quote:

1. No Direct Election of Senators

For sheer "huh?" quality nothing beats the push to repeal the 17th Amendment, which provides for the direct election of U.S. senators. Repeal supporters include not only Georgia Rep. Paul Broun but a number of Tea Party backed candidates such as GOP attorney Mike Lee, who is favored to be the next senator from Utah.

2. No Birthright Citizenship

Repealing the 14th Amendment, which grants citizenship to anyone born in the United States, has become a pet cause for many GOP-ers

3. No Stock

More than 100 House members, unhappy with government bank and auto bailouts, have sponsored an amendment prohibiting government ownership of stock.

4. The Parental Right

South Carolina Sen. Jim DeMint and Michigan Rep. Pete Hoekstra have introduced a "Parental Rights Amendment" designed to stem the gathering threat of the government raising children.

5. Term Limits

Five different Republicans with 65 years in Congress among them, including 15-term Rep. Ralph Hall of Texas, have sponsored term-limits amendments.

6. Flag Burning

Sen. David Vitter of Louisiana and Rep. Jo Ann Emerson of Missouri have each sponsored bills to prevent flag desecration—twice. These no doubt draw their most fervent support from the folks who pull on their American-flag T-shirts and stars and-stripes hats and sat in sweltering heat on their American-flag chairs, exhorting Glenn Beck to defend us from those who disrespect Old Glory.

7. Balanced Budget

Seven GOP-ers have introduced balanced budget amendments, all while favoring making permanent the Bush tax cuts, or similarly fiscally disastrous measures.

8. Right to Life

A classic staple of GOP platforms: get rid of Roe v. Wade by rewriting the Constitution.

9. Gay Marriage

Another GOP attempt to get the government into the bedroom.

10. Supermajority for Tax Increases

Texas Rep. Randy Neugebauer and 19 other lawmakers want two-thirds majorities for tax increases.

11. Spending Cap

Another amendment capping federal spending at 20 percent of GDP.

12. Currency

Minnesota Rep. Michele Bachmann is sponsoring an amendment that would restrict the president's power to negotiate treaties. She’s apparently worried that the president will try to replace the U.S. dollar with a foreign currency. Seriously.

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/slideshows/12-ways-republicans-want-to-c
hange-the-constitution/13


Whether or not any of these proposals has merit isn't the point.
Quote:


The U.S. Constitution is the supreme law of our nation. It establishes the government, divides the power among three equal branches, and describes the powers and duties of each branch and the requirements for holding each office. James Madison wrote most of the text in 1787, and the states ratified it in 1788. The first ten amendments are called the Bill of Rights. The U.S. Constitution has been amended 17 times in 222 years, most recently in 1992.

Any constitutional amendment would cost millions of dollars and require a major community organizing campaign.It took many years and a lot of hard work to convince enough legislatures to ratify prohibition (and its repeal), women’s suffrage, and the 18-year-old vote. Some of you remember the fight for the Equal Rights Amendment in the 1970s. It failed because the Republicans launched a campaign against it.

http://www.examiner.com/public-policy-in-pittsburgh/republicans-threat
en-to-amend-the-constitution#ixzz1QgaewjrC


So why does the party of fiscal responibility want to spend millions to amend the Constitution they keep saying is "sacred"? Seventeen amendments in 222 years, and they're proposing forty-two in just the current Congress? I keep shaking my head at both "smaller government" and "respect the Constitution" when they come out of Republican candidates' mouths, when their actions show a desire to do exactly the opposite. There are so many dichotomies in Republican talking points, like lauding "fiscal responsibility" then writing laws that cost more money (and I won't even go into the lack of fiscal responsibility of the Bush terms). I don't get it.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, June 29, 2011 12:52 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


The Amendment process is part of the Constitution. Without going into the merits of their various proposed Amendments, at least they're trying to go about changing the Constitution in the proper way, instead of relying on court decisions or executive fiat.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, June 29, 2011 4:14 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Geezer has a point, the Constitution was written with the idea of leaving options open to add to it, so people do have the right to add to it if they go about it in the proper manner.

I do not like the idea of repealing birthright citizenship, its worked for us since the start so repealing it would be a bad choice in my opinion. I think that just makes life more complicated. Its always worked fine so why mess with it.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, June 29, 2011 4:33 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
The Amendment process is part of the Constitution. Without going into the merits of their various proposed Amendments, at least they're trying to go about changing the Constitution in the proper way, instead of relying on court decisions or executive fiat.

"Keep the Shiny side up"




I think you meant "in addition to", not "instead of".

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, June 29, 2011 4:36 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by RionaEire:
Geezer has a point, the Constitution was written with the idea of leaving options open to add to it, so people do have the right to add to it if they go about it in the proper manner.

I do not like the idea of repealing birthright citizenship, its worked for us since the start so repealing it would be a bad choice in my opinion. I think that just makes life more complicated. Its always worked fine so why mess with it.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya




Actually, it HASN'T been there since the start. It's been there since the ratification of the Fourteenth Amendment. That's why there are so many on the right who want it repealed - it grants citizenship even to black people born here. Even the ones born in Hawaii. It granted citizenship to the children of the Chinese who were brought here as little more than slaves to work on the railroads, and it grants citizenship to the children of migrant workers who are hired to pick our crops.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, June 30, 2011 2:03 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

I think you meant "in addition to", not "instead of".





In responding to Niki's "Oh My God! The Republicans are trying to change the Constitution by using the rules outlined in the Constitution!! How Dare They?!?!?!" scenario, I mean "instead of".

"Keep the Shiny side up"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, June 30, 2011 2:33 AM

DMAANLILEILTT


The way the US constitution is amended is probably the strangest thing about. Our constitution is changed by a referendum and it seems odd that the US has it in the hands of the legislatures.

Also I'd be interested to see if that limiting amendment is put in and the US is invaded, how would that war be fought? Just a hypothetical I find interesting.

"I really am ruggedly handsome, aren't I?"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, June 30, 2011 2:49 AM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by dmaanlileiltt:
The way the US constitution is amended is probably the strangest thing about. Our constitution is changed by a referendum and it seems odd that the US has it in the hands of the legislatures.

Also I'd be interested to see if that limiting amendment is put in and the US is invaded, how would that war be fought? Just a hypothetical I find interesting.

"I really am ruggedly handsome, aren't I?"



There are SO many guns in the hands of our populace..a country would be quickly humbled if they chose to invade us. If we decided to do away with our military all together..i think we'd still have the worlds best defense

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, June 30, 2011 2:52 AM

HARDWARE


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Actually, it HASN'T been there since the start. It's been there since the ratification of the Fourteenth Amendment. That's why there are so many on the right who want it repealed - it grants citizenship even to black people born here. Even the ones born in Hawaii. It granted citizenship to the children of the Chinese who were brought here as little more than slaves to work on the railroads, and it grants citizenship to the children of migrant workers who are hired to pick our crops.





I don't know about you, but the Constitution has been in force in these parts since December 7, 1787.

It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so, and will follow it by suppressing opposition, subverting all education to seize early the minds of the young, and by killing, locking up, or driving underground all heretics - RAH

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, June 30, 2011 4:22 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by dmaanlileiltt:
The way the US constitution is amended is probably the strangest thing about. Our constitution is changed by a referendum and it seems odd that the US has it in the hands of the legislatures.




The history prof I've mentioned before lectured on that one day. The Constitution left ALL REAL POWER with the State Legislatures. That was where the Founding Fathers came from, it was what they trusted. The State Legs could set voter qualification, certify candidates, vote for the slate of electors for President, ratify the electors' choice, elect the Senators, and , of course, approve amendments. The list goes on. Add in the 9th and 10th Amendments.
How someone got into the State Legislature was a local matter.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, June 30, 2011 6:25 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by kaneman:
There are SO many guns in the hands of our populace..a country would be quickly humbled if they chose to invade us. If we decided to do away with our military all together..i think we'd still have the worlds best defense


At least one enemy general (or might have been admiral, not sure) in history has been attributed to reacting with outright horror at the notion of trying to invade us for exactly this reason - something about a rifle behind every blade of grass.

I'd give even odds an actual invasion force wouldn't make it to the nearest Walmart, unless aided by Koolaid drinking Jackals of the rightwing neofeudal fascist variety, who'd happily sell us out for the chance to slaughter those who don't think and act just like them.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, June 30, 2011 6:40 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


"unless aided by Koolaid drinking Jackals of the rightwing neofeudal fascist variety, who'd happily sell us out for the chance to slaughter those who don't think and act just like them."

Or.

The Koolaid drinking monkees of the leftwing, national-socialist variety, who'd happily order other men to help the invaders so that they can implement their one-world government ideology.

Either way, its doubtful that once we got over the initial shock of an invasion, that ANYONE would stand a chance of occupying us for very long.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, June 30, 2011 7:47 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Hardware:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Actually, it HASN'T been there since the start. It's been there since the ratification of the Fourteenth Amendment. That's why there are so many on the right who want it repealed - it grants citizenship even to black people born here. Even the ones born in Hawaii. It granted citizenship to the children of the Chinese who were brought here as little more than slaves to work on the railroads, and it grants citizenship to the children of migrant workers who are hired to pick our crops.



I don't know about you, but the Constitution has been in force in these parts since December 7, 1787.




And "birthright citizenship" wasn't part of that document UNTIL the Fourteenth Amendment was ratified.

Did you even read what I posted, and what I was responding to? Or did you just not comprehend it?

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, June 30, 2011 7:50 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Either way, its doubtful that once we got over the initial shock of an invasion, that ANYONE would stand a chance of occupying us for very long.




Do you think that's true just of us, or does that hold true for pretty much ANY nation and people?



"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, June 30, 2011 8:35 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


"Do you think that's true just of us, or does that hold true for pretty much ANY nation and people?"

... well, it might not be true for the French... or the British, and Canada? I hope that they would try and keep their sovereignty.. but you have to look at their past actions and their current population and... well...

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, June 30, 2011 11:12 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Well, maybe the French...

The English can be damn stubborn when they have home field advantage, and if you really wanted an invading force thrashed, just hand out rifles to the football (soccer to us yanks) hooligans and watch the hilarity ensue.
Not to mention what'd happen if anyone ever invaded Glasgow, cause they'll "set aboot ye!"
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ViolentGlaswegian

And who on earth would ever WANT to invade Canada ?
I mean, it's bloody cold, and they wouldn't bother to fight you, just ignore you till you either got sick of running around in the snow or got plastered and scandalized down in Windsor, at which point you'd BE Canadian.

Oh, and regarding your comment regarding left-wing one-worlders, well, for starters, you might as well just go ahead and use the fuckin N-word, ya dumb racist prick, cause we all know exactly what you meant.
Secondly, sure - they may well be a threat, but more of a weasel-lemming-quisling kinda thing which isn't much of one without any force to back it up, and as a rule they're so gutless even in packs they'll go lookin for someone else to do the violence, all the while decrying it, pretending their own hands were clean, and claiming it was an unfortunate necessity - but so long as they're thrown back on their own resources and personnel they won't do a goddamn thing but whine.

Whereas the threat YOU present, is a different order, cause when enough of you hate-spouting Jackals get together, violence is your first fuckin response, usually upon the most defenseless of your chosen victim-classes possible, one reason imma huge supporter of Pink-Pistols, I'll have you know.
Also, despite that bent to violence, you and yours are essentially cowards, and going toe to toe against potentially equal firepower would have you rightwing feudo-fascists leaving puddles between your boots, as you'd much rather at that point go pick on the defenseless or less well armed.

Frankly, in such an implausible event, I'd plan to fight ya both, them by heading them off or chopping off any linkup with forces capable or willing to carry out their objective, and yours by the expedient of assassination or public execution, cause rightwing bullies whine and plead so gloriously when they have to face *actual consequences* that it makes for damn good propaganda tapes to demean and humiliate their cause with.

Not to mention a lot of bait and switch to get you to kill the hell out of each other, cause I despise the bloody lot of ya, if at all possible setting you up as cannon fodder for the invaders to gorge themselves on, making them weary, stupid, and easy prey for hit-n-run harrassment and supply line spiking.

I'm not whatever blind to the threat either one of you present, and when it comes to the defense of the things I hold dear, I have no mercy and zero morals - you'd be well advised to take advice, perhaps even assistance.
But you'd be insane to trust me, that for a fact.

-Frem
PS. For a classic example of said rightwingnut jackassery: THIS.
http://www.politicususa.com/en/prosser-chokes-justice

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, June 30, 2011 11:24 AM

BYTEMITE


We're also bat-eating insane. Not the fun kind, the "foaming at the mouth and bite your legs off even after decapitation" kind. Whenever we do something the rest of the world goes "WTF?! What is WRONG with you people?!"

We mostly just laugh at the reactions... And plan REVENGE.

EDIT: Am I talking about Americans or the Scottish? The world may never know.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, June 30, 2011 11:46 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Frem,

"Blah, blah, blah, hate you, blah blah, you are right but.... blah, blah, blah, can't stand that you and I agree but, blah, blah, jackboots, blah, blah, treat kids better, blah, blah, hate you are right and I agree, blah, blah, cripple, blah, blah... etc ad infinity"

That about cover your argument? Not just on this but on pretty much everything?

Dude its cool. Welcome to the real world and the light side.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, June 30, 2011 11:51 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
We're also bat-eating insane. Not the fun kind, the "foaming at the mouth and bite your legs off even after decapitation" kind. Whenever we do something the rest of the world goes "WTF?! What is WRONG with you people?!"


Ayep...



Welcome to America!

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, June 30, 2011 11:55 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Heh, you forget yourself.

I know the hell you know. The difference is I didn't...

1. Place my faith in the "gubmint" to make "my life better, lawd".

2. Place my faith in anarchy.


Tell you what I did do tho... Placed faith on my back, my will, my strength.

And a bit on the Lord God. The father of light, the creator of good, the maker of hope.

Guess what? Banking on my own strength, with a bit of faith, I did JUST fine.

Not that I expect anyone to understand here. But hey, if I could do it, so could you.

ETA: Here comes the disillusioned. The faithless, the hopeless... to tell me how wrong I am. Kwick, Frem, Niki, et all... Have at it.

Sorry, but I, living a good life, prove your theories wrong.





"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, June 30, 2011 12:02 PM

FREMDFIRMA



No, I don't "agree" with you, you're a jackboot licking, racist, fascist scumbag without an ounce of moral fortitude, and even if we did "agree" on something - the moment it required actual effort or guts on your part you'd either slither under a rock, or plant a knife in the back of your allies.

Whereas imma scheming puppetmaster bastard who follows a morality incomprehensible to most westerners and has no reservations about hurtin someone over it, meaning you could cross a line completely unwares and not know it till the axe came down.

We're not in agreement cause there's no *capability* for agreement, since you are fundamentally *incapable* of even understanding what my objectives ARE, much less agreeing or disagreeing with them - that's like askin a fish to explain water to a bird.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, June 30, 2011 12:18 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Sorry, but I, living a good life, prove your theories wrong.


Argument does not compute.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, June 30, 2011 3:17 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Heh, you forget yourself.

I know the hell you know. The difference is I didn't...

1. Place my faith in the "gubmint" to make "my life better, lawd".

2. Place my faith in anarchy.


Tell you what I did do tho... Placed faith on my back, my will, my strength.

And a bit on the Lord God. The father of light, the creator of good, the maker of hope.

Guess what? Banking on my own strength, with a bit of faith, I did JUST fine.

Not that I expect anyone to understand here. But hey, if I could do it, so could you.

ETA: Here comes the disillusioned. The faithless, the hopeless... to tell me how wrong I am. Kwick, Frem, Niki, et all... Have at it.

Sorry, but I, living a good life, prove your theories wrong.





Just as I likewise prove all your theories wrong.

God never built a road - but my government did. I use it to get to and from my job every day. Where I work with other people.

All of us live good lives, but none of us do it completely independently of everyone else. Even you don't do that. Every single thing you think you did all by yourself, just you and your invisible sky buddy, is the result of the efforts of others.


Can you get through your day-to-day existence with NO help from the big bad gubmint, with NO use of public services? No public utilities, no trash pickup, no roads, no sidewalks, no fire and police departments, no emergency services, no internet (that came from government research money, remember!)? Can you do that, Wulfie? Can you do it for your entire life?

Think so? Prove it.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, June 30, 2011 8:13 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Tips large barrel full of cold water and it drenches Frem and Wulf, and maybe Quicko too. Watches as steam drifts up as the forum cools down.
Splash, too bad this is a forum and not a lake, because if we were in the water we'd all be in a better mood.
:)

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, July 1, 2011 2:18 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by RionaEire:
Tips large barrel full of cold water and it drenches Frem and Wulf, and maybe Quicko too. Watches as steam drifts up as the forum cools down.
Splash, too bad this is a forum and not a lake, because if we were in the water we'd all be in a better mood.
:)

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya




Don't worry; it's a long weekend, so things will doubtlessly cool down a bit.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, July 1, 2011 9:45 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Geezer, it would be nice if you wouldn't put words in my mouth. My point was merely that the GOPers make abig deal out of revering the Constitution...as it originally was...yet they've proposed many, many amendments...mostly on social issues. Which, by the way, I thought they said they weren't going to focus on?

It has nothing to do with amendments by either party per se, it's about all the hollering about respecting the Constitution, yet their continual effort to amend it. Exactly like their claim to higher moral standards then having their members be caught in flagrente, AND getting elected on "jobs, jobs, jobs" then immediately turning around and working on social issues, killing unions, abortion and just about ANYTHING BUT jobs.

You can choose to misinterpret me if you want, but it doesn't change reality.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, July 1, 2011 9:56 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Riona: Just "same old, same old"...surprised you're not used to it by now. ;o)

I, for one, will GLADLY take that barrel...our bloody fog deserted us. We're in the high eighties, headed for the nineties next couple of days before it rolls back in. Bah, humbug!


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, July 1, 2011 10:56 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
My point was merely that the GOPers make abig deal out of revering the Constitution...as it originally was...]



"As it originally was" includes the mechanism for changing it. Should you complain that they have the ability to use the provisions of the Constitution which the Founders, in their infinite wisdom, included specifically so folks could add Prohibition, the Commerce Clause, or punishments for flag-burning to the Constitution if enough folks wanted them?

If you don't like the suggested Amendments, that's fine - fight them. Complaining that folks are using the Amendment process as it was designed to be used seems to me to indicate a tendency to think that folk don't have rights under the Constitution if they want do do things you don't want done.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, July 1, 2011 11:34 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Geezer, this is the last time I will clarify for you, and I will be as clear as possible, in the hopes you get it this time. I have NO problem with amending the Constitution; it's the REPUBLICANS who use the talking point of "revering the Constitution" yet try to amend it all over the place:
Quote:

The Constitution has been a frequent rallying cry at Republican and Tea Party events this summer. If you ask Sarah Palin, Sharron Angle, Rand Paul and other conservative politicians, defending that sacred document written by the founders of the United States of America, is No. 1 on their national agenda.
Quote:

Republican Rep. Paul Broun of Georgia won his seat in Congress campaigning as a strict defender of the Constitution. He carries a copy in his pocket and is particularly fond of invoking the Second Amendment right to bear arms.

But it turns out there are parts of the document he doesn’t care for — lots of them. He wants to get rid of the language about birthright citizenship, federal income taxes and direct election of senators, among others. He would add plenty of stuff, including explicitly authorizing castration as punishment for child rapists.

This hot-and-cold take on the Constitution is surprisingly common within the GOP, particularly among those like Broun who portray themselves as strict Constitutionalists and who frequently accuse Democrats of twisting the document to serve political aims.

AP

My one point is that Republicans are fond of talking points which sound good, but which actually have little or nothing invested in. I gave two other examples, "higher moral standards" and "jobs, jobs, jobs" wherein Republicans say one thing and do the opposite. So if you can POSSIBLY get it straight, I'll try one last time:

Republicans/Tea Partiers talk a LOT about respecting, revering the Constitution and claim Democrats do not, yet their actions show they want to amend many, MANY parts of it, in ways that are fiscally irresponsible, smack of social warfare, or just plain silly. I see a dichotomy there, which I would go so far as to call overt hypocrisy.

By the way, someone snarked about Democrats "amending" the Constitution via judicial methods while the Republicans do it "right", or somesuch. I would venture to say that Republicans at least once decided to "amend" the Constitution just by saying so. Does anyone remember this?
Quote:

House Republican leaders on Wednesday announced that they plan to pressure the Senate by voting Friday on a measure that they have termed the "Government Shutdown Prevention Act."

"What this bill says is it reiterates again the deadline, and that the Senate should act before the deadline, and that's what the American people are expecting," House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-Va.) said Wednesday morning at a news conference with other House Republican leaders. "The bill then says if the Senate does not act, then H.R. 1 [the House-passed bill that cuts $61 billion] will be the law of the land."

http://www.businessinsider.com/house-republicans-constitutional-ignora
nce-2011-3


So much for revering our Constitution.

This is a COMMENT, an OPINION, it has nothing to do with me disliking amending the Constitution. Get it?


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, July 1, 2011 12:55 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


They love it so much they just want to change it. They're basically like a bunch of girls fawning all over the "bad boy" at school - they love him, but can't wait to change him!

It's not going to work out. I've already seen this movie.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, July 1, 2011 12:58 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Complaining that folks are using the Amendment process as it was designed to be used seems to me to indicate a tendency to think that folk don't have rights under the Constitution if they want do do things you don't want done.




In a similar vein, complaining that folks are using the legislative process as it was designed to be used indicates the same kind of thinking. I seem to remember an awful lot of people whining about the passage of healthcare reform, even though it went through the legislative process outlined in the Constitution.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, July 1, 2011 2:37 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Again, the word is Perfidy.

Yes folks, that's our WORD OF THE DAY - educate yourself!

-F

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, July 1, 2011 3:24 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


The movie comment and how we know how that relationship ends made me smile.

Niki I think I understand what you're saying and I feel you actually have a good point. How can anyone expect people to behave themselves morally if they're out doing the opposite of what they say is right? Your position was well thought out and well articulated and I can really relate to it.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, July 1, 2011 3:49 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
I have NO problem with amending the Constitution; it's the REPUBLICANS who use the talking point of "revering the Constitution" yet try to amend it all over the place



Okay. You have a problem with the Republicans (sorry, REPUBLICANS) amending the Constitution in ways you don't like. That was the thrust of your first post in this thread and trying to blame them for knowing how it works doesn't wash.

I understand that you think most, or all, of the proposed amendments they have written range from petty and stupid to downright evil. I pretty much agree. However, if, instead of saying " These Amendments Suck And Should Be Rejected" you challenge their propriety in putting forward amendments in the first place, as your first post seems to do, you're in the wrong.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, July 2, 2011 5:40 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Geezer, now I think you're being deliberately obtuse. My first post was quite clear. I said
Quote:

We hear so much about "respecting" the Constitution and "abiding by" the Constitution from the right; so why are they constantly trying to amend it, while claiming Democrats don't respect it?


So if they respect it so much, why do they keep trying to amend it? Here are just 12 of the recent amendments they would like to have:

So why does the party of fiscal responsibility want to spend millions to amend the Constitution they keep saying is "sacred"?

All I kept repeating was that they say it's "sacred" and they revere it, so why do they keep trying to change it?

To say
Quote:

You have a problem with the Republicans (sorry, REPUBLICANS) amending the Constitution in ways you don't like. That was the thrust of your first post in this thread and trying to blame them for knowing how it works doesn't wash
No idea what capitalizing Republicans means, but I said clearly "Whether or not any of these proposals has merit isn't the point." It's not about HOW they do it, it's about WHY they do it, if they think the Constitution is so sacred.

And that's the last I will try to get through to you. It's almost as if you're playing Raptor's game of deliberately misunderstanding and misquoting someone for the fun of it. I've had enough.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

OTHER TOPICS

DISCUSSIONS
Kamala Harris for President
Wed, November 6, 2024 22:13 - 644 posts
That didn't take long...
Wed, November 6, 2024 22:08 - 36 posts
Electoral College, ReSteal 2024 Edition
Wed, November 6, 2024 21:59 - 43 posts
Trump wins 2024. Republicans control Senate.
Wed, November 6, 2024 21:54 - 11 posts
Elections; 2024
Wed, November 6, 2024 21:46 - 4613 posts
Will Your State Regain It's Representation Next Decade?
Wed, November 6, 2024 20:54 - 111 posts
Get Woke, Go Broke
Wed, November 6, 2024 20:36 - 66 posts
Suspect arrested after attack on Paul Pelosi, American businessman, married to Nancy Pelosi Speaker of the United States House of Representatives
Wed, November 6, 2024 20:22 - 62 posts
Where are the Libertarians?
Wed, November 6, 2024 20:16 - 91 posts
Multiculturalism
Wed, November 6, 2024 20:07 - 54 posts
For the record.
Wed, November 6, 2024 20:00 - 224 posts
India
Wed, November 6, 2024 19:52 - 140 posts

FFF.NET SOCIAL