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REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
Republicans and the Constitution
Wednesday, June 29, 2011 7:13 AM
NIKI2
Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...
Quote:Republican Rep. Paul Broun of Georgia won his seat in Congress campaigning as a strict defender of the Constitution. He carries a copy in his pocket and is particularly fond of invoking the Second Amendment right to bear arms. But it turns out there are parts of the document he doesn't care for – lots of them. He wants to get rid of the language about birthright citizenship, federal income taxes and direct election of senators, among others. He would add plenty of stuff, including explicitly authorizing castration as punishment for child rapists. This hot-and-cold take on the Constitution is surprisingly common within the GOP, particularly among those like Broun who portray themselves as strict Constitutionalists and who frequently accuse Democrats of twisting the document to serve political aims. Republicans have proposed at least 42 Constitutional amendments in the current Congress, including one that has gained favor recently to eliminate the automatic grant of citizenship to anyone born in the United States. The Republican proposals tend to be social and political statements, such as the growing movement to repeal the 14th Amendment's birthright citizenship. [Repubicans] routinely accuse Democrats of trying to subvert the Constitution and calls for respecting the document's "plain language". But widely supported Republican amendments would prohibit government ownership of private companies, bar same-sex marriage, require a two-thirds vote in Congress to raise taxes, and – an old favorite – prohibit desecration of the American flag. During the health care debate, Rep. Pete Hoekstra, R-Mich., introduced an amendment that would allow voters to directly repeal laws passed by Congress – a move that would radically alter the Founding Fathers' system of checks and balances.
Quote:1. No Direct Election of Senators For sheer "huh?" quality nothing beats the push to repeal the 17th Amendment, which provides for the direct election of U.S. senators. Repeal supporters include not only Georgia Rep. Paul Broun but a number of Tea Party backed candidates such as GOP attorney Mike Lee, who is favored to be the next senator from Utah. 2. No Birthright Citizenship Repealing the 14th Amendment, which grants citizenship to anyone born in the United States, has become a pet cause for many GOP-ers 3. No Stock More than 100 House members, unhappy with government bank and auto bailouts, have sponsored an amendment prohibiting government ownership of stock. 4. The Parental Right South Carolina Sen. Jim DeMint and Michigan Rep. Pete Hoekstra have introduced a "Parental Rights Amendment" designed to stem the gathering threat of the government raising children. 5. Term Limits Five different Republicans with 65 years in Congress among them, including 15-term Rep. Ralph Hall of Texas, have sponsored term-limits amendments. 6. Flag Burning Sen. David Vitter of Louisiana and Rep. Jo Ann Emerson of Missouri have each sponsored bills to prevent flag desecration—twice. These no doubt draw their most fervent support from the folks who pull on their American-flag T-shirts and stars and-stripes hats and sat in sweltering heat on their American-flag chairs, exhorting Glenn Beck to defend us from those who disrespect Old Glory. 7. Balanced Budget Seven GOP-ers have introduced balanced budget amendments, all while favoring making permanent the Bush tax cuts, or similarly fiscally disastrous measures. 8. Right to Life A classic staple of GOP platforms: get rid of Roe v. Wade by rewriting the Constitution. 9. Gay Marriage Another GOP attempt to get the government into the bedroom. 10. Supermajority for Tax Increases Texas Rep. Randy Neugebauer and 19 other lawmakers want two-thirds majorities for tax increases. 11. Spending Cap Another amendment capping federal spending at 20 percent of GDP. 12. Currency Minnesota Rep. Michele Bachmann is sponsoring an amendment that would restrict the president's power to negotiate treaties. She’s apparently worried that the president will try to replace the U.S. dollar with a foreign currency. Seriously.
Quote: The U.S. Constitution is the supreme law of our nation. It establishes the government, divides the power among three equal branches, and describes the powers and duties of each branch and the requirements for holding each office. James Madison wrote most of the text in 1787, and the states ratified it in 1788. The first ten amendments are called the Bill of Rights. The U.S. Constitution has been amended 17 times in 222 years, most recently in 1992. Any constitutional amendment would cost millions of dollars and require a major community organizing campaign.It took many years and a lot of hard work to convince enough legislatures to ratify prohibition (and its repeal), women’s suffrage, and the 18-year-old vote. Some of you remember the fight for the Equal Rights Amendment in the 1970s. It failed because the Republicans launched a campaign against it.
Wednesday, June 29, 2011 12:52 PM
GEEZER
Keep the Shiny side up
Wednesday, June 29, 2011 4:14 PM
RIONAEIRE
Beir bua agus beannacht
Wednesday, June 29, 2011 4:33 PM
KWICKO
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)
Quote:Originally posted by Geezer: The Amendment process is part of the Constitution. Without going into the merits of their various proposed Amendments, at least they're trying to go about changing the Constitution in the proper way, instead of relying on court decisions or executive fiat. "Keep the Shiny side up"
Wednesday, June 29, 2011 4:36 PM
Quote:Originally posted by RionaEire: Geezer has a point, the Constitution was written with the idea of leaving options open to add to it, so people do have the right to add to it if they go about it in the proper manner. I do not like the idea of repealing birthright citizenship, its worked for us since the start so repealing it would be a bad choice in my opinion. I think that just makes life more complicated. Its always worked fine so why mess with it. "A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya
Thursday, June 30, 2011 2:03 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: I think you meant "in addition to", not "instead of".
Thursday, June 30, 2011 2:33 AM
DMAANLILEILTT
Thursday, June 30, 2011 2:49 AM
KANEMAN
Quote:Originally posted by dmaanlileiltt: The way the US constitution is amended is probably the strangest thing about. Our constitution is changed by a referendum and it seems odd that the US has it in the hands of the legislatures. Also I'd be interested to see if that limiting amendment is put in and the US is invaded, how would that war be fought? Just a hypothetical I find interesting. "I really am ruggedly handsome, aren't I?"
Thursday, June 30, 2011 2:52 AM
HARDWARE
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: Actually, it HASN'T been there since the start. It's been there since the ratification of the Fourteenth Amendment. That's why there are so many on the right who want it repealed - it grants citizenship even to black people born here. Even the ones born in Hawaii. It granted citizenship to the children of the Chinese who were brought here as little more than slaves to work on the railroads, and it grants citizenship to the children of migrant workers who are hired to pick our crops.
Thursday, June 30, 2011 4:22 AM
NEWOLDBROWNCOAT
Quote:Originally posted by dmaanlileiltt: The way the US constitution is amended is probably the strangest thing about. Our constitution is changed by a referendum and it seems odd that the US has it in the hands of the legislatures.
Thursday, June 30, 2011 6:25 AM
FREMDFIRMA
Quote:Originally posted by kaneman: There are SO many guns in the hands of our populace..a country would be quickly humbled if they chose to invade us. If we decided to do away with our military all together..i think we'd still have the worlds best defense
Thursday, June 30, 2011 6:40 AM
WULFENSTAR
http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg
Thursday, June 30, 2011 7:47 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Hardware: Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: Actually, it HASN'T been there since the start. It's been there since the ratification of the Fourteenth Amendment. That's why there are so many on the right who want it repealed - it grants citizenship even to black people born here. Even the ones born in Hawaii. It granted citizenship to the children of the Chinese who were brought here as little more than slaves to work on the railroads, and it grants citizenship to the children of migrant workers who are hired to pick our crops.
Thursday, June 30, 2011 7:50 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Wulfenstar: Either way, its doubtful that once we got over the initial shock of an invasion, that ANYONE would stand a chance of occupying us for very long.
Thursday, June 30, 2011 8:35 AM
Thursday, June 30, 2011 11:12 AM
Thursday, June 30, 2011 11:24 AM
BYTEMITE
Thursday, June 30, 2011 11:46 AM
Thursday, June 30, 2011 11:51 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Bytemite: We're also bat-eating insane. Not the fun kind, the "foaming at the mouth and bite your legs off even after decapitation" kind. Whenever we do something the rest of the world goes "WTF?! What is WRONG with you people?!"
Thursday, June 30, 2011 11:55 AM
Thursday, June 30, 2011 12:02 PM
Thursday, June 30, 2011 12:18 PM
Quote:Sorry, but I, living a good life, prove your theories wrong.
Thursday, June 30, 2011 3:17 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Wulfenstar: Heh, you forget yourself. I know the hell you know. The difference is I didn't... 1. Place my faith in the "gubmint" to make "my life better, lawd". 2. Place my faith in anarchy. Tell you what I did do tho... Placed faith on my back, my will, my strength. And a bit on the Lord God. The father of light, the creator of good, the maker of hope. Guess what? Banking on my own strength, with a bit of faith, I did JUST fine. Not that I expect anyone to understand here. But hey, if I could do it, so could you. ETA: Here comes the disillusioned. The faithless, the hopeless... to tell me how wrong I am. Kwick, Frem, Niki, et all... Have at it. Sorry, but I, living a good life, prove your theories wrong.
Thursday, June 30, 2011 8:13 PM
Friday, July 1, 2011 2:18 AM
Quote:Originally posted by RionaEire: Tips large barrel full of cold water and it drenches Frem and Wulf, and maybe Quicko too. Watches as steam drifts up as the forum cools down. Splash, too bad this is a forum and not a lake, because if we were in the water we'd all be in a better mood. :) "A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya
Friday, July 1, 2011 9:45 AM
Friday, July 1, 2011 9:56 AM
Friday, July 1, 2011 10:56 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: My point was merely that the GOPers make abig deal out of revering the Constitution...as it originally was...]
Friday, July 1, 2011 11:34 AM
Quote:The Constitution has been a frequent rallying cry at Republican and Tea Party events this summer. If you ask Sarah Palin, Sharron Angle, Rand Paul and other conservative politicians, defending that sacred document written by the founders of the United States of America, is No. 1 on their national agenda.
Quote:Republican Rep. Paul Broun of Georgia won his seat in Congress campaigning as a strict defender of the Constitution. He carries a copy in his pocket and is particularly fond of invoking the Second Amendment right to bear arms. But it turns out there are parts of the document he doesn’t care for — lots of them. He wants to get rid of the language about birthright citizenship, federal income taxes and direct election of senators, among others. He would add plenty of stuff, including explicitly authorizing castration as punishment for child rapists. This hot-and-cold take on the Constitution is surprisingly common within the GOP, particularly among those like Broun who portray themselves as strict Constitutionalists and who frequently accuse Democrats of twisting the document to serve political aims.
Quote:House Republican leaders on Wednesday announced that they plan to pressure the Senate by voting Friday on a measure that they have termed the "Government Shutdown Prevention Act." "What this bill says is it reiterates again the deadline, and that the Senate should act before the deadline, and that's what the American people are expecting," House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-Va.) said Wednesday morning at a news conference with other House Republican leaders. "The bill then says if the Senate does not act, then H.R. 1 [the House-passed bill that cuts $61 billion] will be the law of the land."
Friday, July 1, 2011 12:55 PM
Friday, July 1, 2011 12:58 PM
Quote:Complaining that folks are using the Amendment process as it was designed to be used seems to me to indicate a tendency to think that folk don't have rights under the Constitution if they want do do things you don't want done.
Friday, July 1, 2011 2:37 PM
Friday, July 1, 2011 3:24 PM
Friday, July 1, 2011 3:49 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: I have NO problem with amending the Constitution; it's the REPUBLICANS who use the talking point of "revering the Constitution" yet try to amend it all over the place
Saturday, July 2, 2011 5:40 AM
Quote:We hear so much about "respecting" the Constitution and "abiding by" the Constitution from the right; so why are they constantly trying to amend it, while claiming Democrats don't respect it? So if they respect it so much, why do they keep trying to amend it? Here are just 12 of the recent amendments they would like to have: So why does the party of fiscal responsibility want to spend millions to amend the Constitution they keep saying is "sacred"?
Quote:You have a problem with the Republicans (sorry, REPUBLICANS) amending the Constitution in ways you don't like. That was the thrust of your first post in this thread and trying to blame them for knowing how it works doesn't wash
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