REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Why one good teacher decided to quit

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Thursday, July 28, 2011 10:15
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Thursday, July 21, 2011 9:16 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Hard to edit this one, it has so much I think is really valid:
Quote:

This is Linda DeRegnaucourt's last summer off. When school starts in August, it will be her last year to think about high school classes, advanced placement tests and calculus.

If all goes as planned, this will be her last year teaching at Palm Bay High School in Brevard County, Florida.

She doesn't want to go. After 13 years of teaching high-level math, she has a tested stable of learning methods that helped all her students pass the AP calculus exam. Her room is a popular place for students to escape the drama of the high school cafeteria. Few jobs can indulge her excitement for linear functions and matrix calculus.

"I hate to have to leave it," DeRegnaucourt said. "I really thought I was going to be that teacher, 65 years old and retiring from the education field. That's not going to happen."

She's quitting, she said, because she can't afford to stay.

Two years ago, a divorce left 47-year-old DeRegnaucourt with a single income. Rental properties she owned only caused more financial strain as Florida's real estate market fell apart in recent years. Despite her years of experience, she earns $38,000, she said, less than she made in the past, when teachers received larger supplements for additional certifications.

Once she made a budget, she realized she didn't make enough money to cover her expenses and save for her future. Changing careers felt like the only wise financial move, she said.

DeRegnaucourt isn't the only one.

Attracting the best students to teaching -- and keeping them -- is tough for schools across the country. Average starting teaching salaries are $39,000, and rise with experience to an average of $54,000, according to "Closing the Talent Gap," a 2010 report by McKinsey & Company. Teacher salaries can't compete with other careers, the report said, and annual teacher turnover in the United States is 14%. At "high-needs" high schools, it is 20%.

The Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development data from 2007 said the United States ranks 20th out of 29 for starting teacher salaries, and 23rd out of 29 for teacher salaries after 15 years.

But it's not just the pay, DeRegnaucourt said, "It's the way we're treated."

Her colleagues have waited until just before school starts to learn what courses they'll be teaching, she said. Uncertainty makes it impossible to prepare, hard to succeed.

"Five years ago, 10 years ago, kids would ask me, should they become teachers? I was like, 'Oh, God, yes, I love what I do,' " she said. "Now, I tell my kids, 'You're really, really bright. Why don't you think about going into (this or that?)' They have the potential to be doctors, lawyers, nurses, CEOs and scientists . Why would I recommend to my kids, who I absolutely love, to struggle for years?"

This year, she's finishing the prerequisite courses needed to enroll in nursing school. DeRegnaucourt hopes to spend a couple of more years learning, then work in emergency care nursing to gain experience.

"It's challenging," she said, "but there's not a whole lot that's more challenging than doing upper level mathematics."

.....
Quote:

When my son was 6 years old, the school system that he was in in Georgia, it did not allow the teacher to take her planning days unless she could find a volunteer sub. She had to ask for parental volunteers. I told her at the beginning of the year, 'I work at night. I'll take every single one of your days. I can substitute for you.' I really enjoyed working with the kids. Then I read an article in the paper, and it said that (most) boys get the same educations as their mothers. I had not gone to college. I wanted my son to be college educated. It was time for me to go back to school.

I knew that math was an area where I would never, ever worry about getting a job as a teacher. If you're in math or physics or chemistry, you can write your own ticket.

.....

I had a teacher for developmental math named Ms. Sifton, and she was amazing. Out of my entire career, she was the best math professor I ever had. I loved math.

I didn't take Ms. Sifton for granted. The way she made it so elemental, and gave me that strong base to go ahead and succeed. What I have found is most people aren't awful at math, even if math is not your strength. You can be successful, given the right mentor. It definitely influenced the way I teach.

I have always had a very open relationship with my students. I don't believe I deserve respect because I'm older. I deserve it because I've earned it, and you deserve it because you've earned it.

The majority of the really, really amazing techniques I have came from students. I worked summers for years. I taught a six-week class where students could either remediate or jump ahead. You taught it for an eight-hour day. I had a young man, Victor Rodriguez. He came up to me, "Ms. D, we're just learning and learning and learning. We're just forgetting and forgetting and forgetting. We need to practice it." I asked "What do you think we should do?" He said, "I think we need to go to the boards." Every day, except on test days, my kids go to the board (to work math problems in front of each other). If they finish and they get it right, I give them a thumbs up and they go help another student.

The best teaching technique I have -- it came from Victor Rodriguez.

I have had to learn how to budget. In those thoughts, I came to the realization that the money I make isn't enough. It isn't enough to live alone. That realization was daunting. As educators, we make what we make, nothing more, nothing less. In industry, if I'm valuable, my company can keep me by making the package they offer me more attractive. In education, the principal's hands are tied. You just never know what the future holds. I still need to plan for the future.

.....

My students were the first ones to know [it would be her last year]. One student comes to mind: Just the other day, he e-mailed and asked me to call him. He wanted to confirm again I would be there next year. The ones who were leaving, they don't care. I've already done for them what I needed to do. My juniors moving up to calculus, they were distraught. They know I know what I'm doing. They know what it's like to have a teacher who doesn't know what they're doing. They've all had bad teachers. We all have.


http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/07/20/why.quit.teacher/index.html?hpt=hp_bn
1


Yeah, let's keep cutting education budgets around the country, heaven knows those lazy teachers make too much of OUR money, right?

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Thursday, July 21, 2011 10:49 AM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


That's a bummer, its hard to find teachers that teach math and make it exciting and interesting for all their students. The place in the country where teachers make the most money is probably Naperville IL, where Rachie lives, she said her teachers were making something like 80 to 90 thou a year, but I know it isn't usually like that, Naperville is a rich area, though not immune to life's problems, duh, her friend's father was jailed for high profile drug dealing, its always those fancy places that have all that secret law breaking going on.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, July 21, 2011 10:34 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Yanno, I came across something not long ago which made me think long on the whole topic of education, and youth rights, cause while we have come long strides in some ways, in others we have remained stagnant or even regressed.

This is a 1969 Editorial piece by Jerry Farber.
And unfortunately it contains in quantity the one word I flat will not utter, and will deck someone for using in front of me, but it's necessary to the theme of the piece.
http://ry4an.org/readings/short/student/

Of course, we know what happened as soon as they DID try standing up, back then, Kent State being a classic friggin example - and as a result, note just how *little* of that has changed in higher education, by the time someone has ground out the time within the system to have the sufficient (and in many ways ridiculous) "credential" to teach, they're already so invested in the system they're a slave to it, mostly.

Which is kind of ironic cause there's folk like me who do a lot of "teaching" and have not a whit of credential - it takes more than a bunch of fancy paperwork to be able to inspire and impart knowledge to others.

And, of course, again - all the money in the world for war-war-war, and not jack shit for the advancement or betterment of the human condition, of course.

-Frem
PS. Blue Angels airshow in town today, heaven knows how much spent on military propaganda and glorification, and when they overflew the highway I was on I mentioned to my passenger just how much of Detroit could be fed and sheltered just for the *fuel* cost of that flyover.....

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Friday, July 22, 2011 1:59 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


That's an unfortunate piece, Frem - I didn't get past the first paragraph, because it offends me when someone uses the word in such a deliberately insulting way. I mean, when someone uses that word specifically to show how worthless, down, and downtrodden any group is.

It offended me when Lennon did it in "Woman is the ****** of the World"; it offended me when Costello did it in "Oliver's Army"; if offended me when The The did it in "The Beat(en) Generation".

I get the message; I get what they're saying. But there has to be a better way to say it. This is playing into a stereotype, by calling the poorest and most helpless of any group this word. It's degrading to everyone.



"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Friday, July 22, 2011 2:51 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Oh I feel ya Mikey - in all honesty I been holding that piece back for almost a year for that very reason.
Also worth remembering it was written back in '69, when the civil rights movement was barely even getting off the ground, and before the horrors of COINTELPRO, Kent State, the MOVE incident, and various other acts of chicanery and bloodshed showed just *how far* the powers that be are willing to go in order to keep the chains on...

But it was also a time when that word was bandied about by prettymuch everyone, and by its common use, numbed the minds and the ears of the populace to where it wasn't considered so offensive as it is today, except by a few who at the time, did not socially "matter" a whit.

What tipped me over the edge to finally post it was not only an appropriate topic which related, but also the concept, the ATTITUDE, being so terribly and disgustingly similar to the attitudes shown towards women in other threads here, mostly indirectly...
And just HOW relevant it is, that women were once treated with the exact same sneering lack of respect, abused with the same impunity, and disrespected for all the same reasons youth are - and the EXCUSES used for it, are the exact damn same.

Thing is, although the piece offends the hell out of me, and it took me long and long to choke down my ire enough to read it through, to see through my revulsion for such wording...
It doesn't make it a bit less true - maybe he felt he HAD to be that offensive to hold folks attention in the political climate of the time, one can certainly make a case for it.

Again, we've come long strides, but reading that, forty years and just how little some things have changed, and many have gotten worse, cause I am pretty sure his schools didn't have metal detectors and cameras and punkass bitch security feeling up the girls at every chance...

Which is something ELSE worth discussing - just how much of the educational budget gets soaked up by draconian security measures which amount to security theatre and window dressing(1), mostly to INTIMIDATE, rather than protect, the students... versus how little trickles down into teacher salaries.

(1) Cause all you have to do is get a buddy to hand you the gun through a bathroom window and voila, easy as that, you've rendered the system useless.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Friday, July 22, 2011 6:18 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I despise the word too, and have never uttered it in my entire life, but the article went on to make very relevant points. I assume the use of the word was for dramatic purposes, but that doesn't excuse it and is in very bad taste. I wasn't sure what he meant, so I read the rest. I agree with it.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Friday, July 22, 2011 7:08 AM

CANTTAKESKY


I recently did a short stint as a school teacher. I hated it.

I love teaching. I love homeschooling. I love teaching homeschooled classrooms. But school children? No.

The difference? Involuntary learning. School is a prison where kids are forced to presumably learn.

News flash. You can lead a horse to the water.... Kids who don't want to learn will do anything in class BUT.

As a schoolteacher, I had to fight all the distractions and obstacles they erected to keep from learning against their will. Just so that the few kids who DID want to learn can do it. It sucks.

I just quit. I can't do it. I don't know how anyone does. Kudos to those who can. They deserve to be paid the kind of riches that doctors get now.

School needs a major reform. The first needs to be that kids only go to the classes they WANT to go to. Teachers can teach better, and kids can learn better.



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Monday, July 25, 2011 2:42 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


The problem with kids only going to the classes they like is that I never would have learnt any math, I always disliked math, even in middle school when I had the coolest math teacher ever, he was cool and I learned, but if I hadn't _had to go learn I wouldn't have. I think the only things I would have learnt at school would have been singing, reading (though maybe not even that since I had a hard time at first and got frustrated now and again) and history, maybe a little bit about nature. But I'm sure glad now that I learned to read and I'm even glad I had to learn maths. So I'm glad that school is required to teach kids all of it, whether the kid sees the need for it at the time or not.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Monday, July 25, 2011 3:15 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Yup, I disliked math quite a bit, too. It took me until halfway through Trigonometry in college before I "got" it, and that was only because I had a very good tutor, who is still a close friend some 25 years later.



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Monday, July 25, 2011 5:08 PM

JENJEN

not to fret!


I'm a teacher. I live in Florida.

Well, to be more precise, I'm an unemployed teacher. There are no jobs for me because the budget has been cut back so much. Of my graduating class, 1 received employment. That's 1 out of 62. I graduated from one of the top Education colleges in the nation. I've been unemployed for 7 months. I want to teach so badly. During my student teaching internship, I felt what it was like to be in charge of 200 high school students. I learned every single one of their names. I talked to many of them outside of class, in the hallways, in the classroom; I learned so much from them. I love teaching.

It's incredibly hard to find teachers that really love what they do. It's even harder to find teachers who love what they do and can afford to actually do it. The article you posted is very similar to a lot of the articles I've read about other teachers in similar situations. Schools are needing teachers but can't afford to pay them. Those they pay, well, some of them, deserve more than what they're being paid.

It's ridiculous how many teachers are treated. I've been scoffed at for being an educator. I dare any one of those people to stand in a classroom of high school students, obtain the kids' attention, keep the attention, and actually inspire them to learn something! It's definitely not something you can learn in college, or something that a piece of paper gives you. College courses only enhance something already within you. Why teachers are treated so terribly is a wonder to me. I really wish it wasn't so.

What's even worse than what's mentioned in the article is that the government thinks it can make education better. Most government officials have never taught a class or even worked beside a teacher before. If legislation is to be passed about how schools are run, then the government officials need to take some time to work in a classroom. I'm tired of 'merit pay' talks and ending tenure. How about modifying those things so they actually work? I can tell them how except they never listen when I do. Teachers have tried before. No one listens.

Anywho, enough with that rant. Thank you for sharing that article and for those who input on this discussion. :)

~Shiny!

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Monday, July 25, 2011 7:34 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Jen, I hope you can find a teaching job soon. I agree with you that tenure should be discontinued or at least significantly modified. So many educators, mainly professors, get it and slack off and even, in the case of a professor my best friend had at university, talk about how they don't even have to teach the class right because no matter what they do they can't be fired because they have tenure.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, July 26, 2011 11:14 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Those who truly inspire folk to learn, could never be paid ENOUGH - all to many "teachers" these days wind up sending the message of sit-down-shut-up-and-OBEY! - which isn't what education is about, and of course the Gov loves em cause it indoctrinates them into habitual obediance and no one stands up and asks unconfortable questions...

Something which got ME pitched out of over a dozen schools, but it wasn't the sole thing since I do have a habit of anti-social behavior given that I find our society reprehensible.

Anyhows, have you looked into Sudbury Model or FreeSchools ?
They'd be glad to have you, but the pay is crap, of course - still, it beats starving, and you WOULD be able to inspire, and educate, instead of bring bitched at by Administration for doing so.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Wednesday, July 27, 2011 7:46 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Thank you so much, Jen Jen, for piping up. I've heard everything you wrote, and it breaks my heart. Not only that, but the teachers I knew hated the politics of education, the back-biting and gamesmanship, which is so wrong among people who don't get paid nearly enough for what they do, but I guess is part of the human condition.

I can't add anything to what you said, as I've heard it from others and know it to be the case, but it breaks my heart to hear of yet another GOOD teacher, someone who loves teaching, being in that position. It's easy for anyone NOT trying to do it to diss the system, but once we had the greatest education system in the world, and now it's been whittled down to virtually third-world level, and doesn't look to get better with all the cuts the Repubs keep making. Part of the problem is that the government has cut so much, state and local governments have been left to pick up the slack, and THEY'RE doing worse than the government!

All I can do is hope and pray that people like you manage to get in, because we need to CLONE you many times over to even hope to salvage the situation. I believe tenure needs to be fixed too, and that there are numerous viable methods aside from just doing away with it...the same with merit pay. But, as you said, nobody listens. I went to school when the education system was still really great (shows you how old I am!), and it grieves me that kids aren't getting anything like the same quality of education we did.

Sending ALL good wishes and a hope you can hang in there. We desperately need teachers who love teaching; you're probably the only ones who will put up with what's happening these days and still manage to actually TEACH!


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Thursday, July 28, 2011 5:19 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by RionaEire:
So I'm glad that school is required to teach kids all of it, whether the kid sees the need for it at the time or not.

Kids who don't want to learn need to be tutored. One-on-one (or maybe two)--very small student-teacher ratios--that is the only way to forcibly teach an involuntary learner.

So in my perfect school, all classes would be electives. Essentials like reading, writing, and math would be tutored small groups of 5 or less.

In my view, only exceptionally talented teachers can reach involuntary students in groups larger than five. And those people need to be paid like pro athletes. It's an extremely rare and beautiful talent.



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Thursday, July 28, 2011 7:46 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by canttakesky:
Quote:

Originally posted by RionaEire:
So I'm glad that school is required to teach kids all of it, whether the kid sees the need for it at the time or not.

Kids who don't want to learn need to be tutored. One-on-one (or maybe two)--very small student-teacher ratios--that is the only way to forcibly teach an involuntary learner.

So in my perfect school, all classes would be electives. Essentials like reading, writing, and math would be tutored small groups of 5 or less.

In my view, only exceptionally talented teachers can reach involuntary students in groups larger than five. And those people need to be paid like pro athletes. It's an extremely rare and beautiful talent.






Hard to argue with any of that, CTS. Especially the part about what good teachers should be paid!

A good teacher can, quite literally, change or save a life.

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Thursday, July 28, 2011 8:52 AM

KANEMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Yup, I disliked math quite a bit, too. It took me until halfway through Trigonometry in college before I "got" it, and that was only because I had a very good tutor, who is still a close friend some 25 years later.






LOL...man you must have really hated math to be half way through college taking trig...no snark meant, but being a math guy I took that shit in middle school...half way through college I had already eaten applied calc 2...even though I took the Ap classes in Jr Sr year of high school...but you sure can spell

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Thursday, July 28, 2011 10:15 AM

BYTEMITE


I was actually terrible at math for a long time. So I ended up taking every math class I had time for through college, and that time around I actually did well. My experience is that if someone doesn't know HOW they personally learn, it's almost pointless to even try.

And because I only learn through self-directed education, practice, and text book crawls, there's only been two teachers in my entire life that ever made a positive impact on me. That is nothing against most teachers, it is just how I learn.

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