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Gypsy Taub and BLM and LGBT support

There is consensus between Daily Mail / New York Post / Epoch Times that the photograph of the residence shared by Taub and DePape contains a Rainbow flag (LGBT) and a Black Lives Matter sign. Post reporter Shellenberger also cites a neighbor named Trish:

Shellenberger, Michael (29 October 2022). "Pelosi attack suspect David DePape was a psychotic homeless addict". New York Post. "DePape lived with a notorious local nudist in a Berkeley home, complete with a Black Lives Matter sign in the window and an LGBT rainbow flag .. “What I know about the family is that they’re very radical activists,” said one of DePape’s neighbors, a woman who only gave her first name, Trish. “They seem very left. They are all about the Black Lives Matter movement. Gay pride. But they’re very detached from reality. They have called the cops on several of the neighbors, including us, claiming that we are plotting against them. It’s really weird to see that they are willing to be so aggressive toward somebody else who is also a lefty.”"

@Love of Corey: and @Cullen328: have reverted me both times, citing the red-backgrounded status of these sites on Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Perennial_sources as reason to keep it out of the article.

However reliable you think these sites are in regard to speaking the truth - it at least seems notable that multiple "unreliable" newspapers are all in consensus about this very simple fact which anyone can glean by looking at the photographs.

So even if we list it with a disclaimer, I think this information should be presented in the context of "notable yet unreliable sources A, B and C say" because however Wikipedia classifies the reliability of these sources, they are certainly -noteworthy- sources whose reporting should be reported, even if with a disclaimer.

This is one of those issues which, given the obvious content in the photograph (we can read letters on a sign) speaks favorably of the sources who are reporting this fact, and unfavorably of those sources who are not. HearthHOTS (talk) 06:11, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

None of these sources are reliable sources for any use whatsoever on Wikipedia. DePape and Taub are estranged and Taub has been in jail for quite some time. There is no solid evidence that DePape was living in that home recently. Some reports say he may have been living in an old school bus and other reports say he might have moved to Richmond. It is likely that other people were living there, and there is no evidence that either DePape or Taub put up those flags. Cullen328 (talk) 06:21, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

There is the interview with the neighbor. Do you think the reporter lied about getting that interview, or the person he interviewed is not a neighbor, or that "Trish" lied? HearthHOTS (talk) 06:27, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

Without a RS, we don't have enough data to think anything. Feoffer (talk) 06:35, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

I think Cullen328 makes good points. Arguably we've got too much about Taub already. According to this, "On Friday, a person living at Taub’s house who declined to give his name said DePape had not been in the family picture for years."--Jack Upland (talk) 06:44, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

We use reliable sources. We don’t use unreliable sources. Ignore anything in the Daily Mail or New York Post. Bondegezou (talk) 08:03, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

The fact that there is a trend with all of these red-flagged "sources" sharing the same detail that actual WP:RS hasn't yet tells me this is more of a political ax-grinding than an effort to share actual news, given the potential context here. Love of Corey (talk) 17:11, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

At some point the Reliable Sources will piece together his history. Right now it is a jumble. I have tried to make a little sense out of it but hopefully we will have better sources soon. -- MelanieN (talk) 00:27, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

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The Democrats do not own this article

User:Neutrality, you deleted a well sourced addition to the article, rather than make a few edits to improve it. Let me replay the edit summary:

"Biden's comments linking this to January 6th and the Republicans was over-the-top political, and needs to be placed into its own section. Conservative opinions about this needs to be included, per WP:BALANCE; it cannot just document the conspiracy theories".

This article is a hit-piece. Look at Biden's over-the-top comments linking this to January 6th and the Republicans, yet any reasonable response expressing the conservative view gets deleted. This does not benefit Wikipedia's readers. Please revert your edit. Magnolia677 (talk) 22:58, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

With respect, your sourcing was bad - mostly punditry - and your "reorganization" of some content made no sense for reasons I explained in my edit summary. No, quotes from podcast provocateurs (Matt Walsh) and Donald Trump Jr. don't need to be stuck in the article, especially without context. We don't quote (for example) Rachel Maddow, either (and unlike either of those, Maddow has not engaged in fringe commentary). Look, your edits to this article have been consistently subpar - poor sourcing, little concept of due-weight, etc. And you pretty clearly have an axe to grind (Exhibit A: the section header you just made on this talk page.) You might be better served by focusing on other topic areas. Neutralitytalk 23:06, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

In this edit you added the opinions of Matt Walsh and Donald Trump Jr., both of which are undue. If Hunter Biden commented on this event, would we include it then? We can't just include "both sides" to "balance" the "narrative" -- it needs to be reasonable. — Nythar (??-??) 23:10, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

The article is a hit piece that lifted every rock to find right wing conspiracy theories (one who mentions Hitler...what???), but when notable conservatives give their opinion about this, it's deleted and some admin suggests the editor "move on". Wikipedia's readers deserve better. Magnolia677 (talk) 23:21, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

@Magnolia677: I suggest you read the False balance article to get an idea on why it's being removed. In the "reactions" section I can see Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. There's also Donald Trump, Mitch Mcconnell, Chuck Schumer. Seems reasonable.

But this is what you added:

The American Conservative wrote that the media's response was about "Managing The Narrative", and that "powerful Democratic Party figures have an interest in keeping a scandal involving Nancy Pelosi suppressed only a week or so before the election, and further, pinning that scandal on evil Republicans".[68] Conservative commentator Matt Walsh wrote, "The media didn't give a shit when Rand Paul was assaulted or Kavanaugh was nearly assassinated or the GOP baseball game was shot up. But it's not a 'double standard.' They just believe that Republicans deserve to die." Donald Trump Jr. wrote that Democrats care more about Paul Pelosi than other crime victims: "Imagine how safe the country would be if democrats took all violent crime as seriously as they’re taking the Paul Pelosi situation".[69] The Washington Post wrote that "the narrative that gained the most traction" was that the attack was linked to "a rise in crime in San Francisco and, by extension, in many cities with Democratic leaders".


If there are many prominent politicians who insist the earth is flat, are we going to split the Earth article into "flat earth" and "round earth" sections? We don't have to balance everything. No, we don't need to include "criticism" by conservative politicians. — Nythar (??-??) 00:01, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

@Magnolia677: As I remarked on the claim about Hitler you may be talking about, I would like to explain why I think it's important to do so. "Hitler did nothing wrong", with this exact wording, is an antisemitic trope reproduced online by neo-nazis, and the suspected attacker this concrete text talks about experimented a process of radicalization online that led him to adopt many fringe, far-right political stances and antisemitic conspiracy theories, and ultimately to consider the attack he perpetrated as legitimate. This is not about a Democratic talking point and it's not lifting every rock but to understand that this exact word usage by a person who was radicalized to the extreme political stances he defended online is not trivial. Police has expressed the concern this crime is politically motivated, which his own interview, DePape seemed to confirm. Understanding the radicalization process this person suffered is key to understand the whole context of the attack, and the concrete fact this phrase was used helps to detail it. Narunnaia (talk) 20:47, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

"Conservative opinions about this needs to be included, per WP:BALANCE;" Wikipedia is not US-specific, our editors and readers are global -- we don't equal-time balance US-Conservative vs US-Liberal like a we're an American TV station in the 1970s. Podcaster Walsh and Trump Jr. are not improvements. Feoffer (talk) 23:56, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

The notion that a well-referenced statement by the current president of the United States ought to be balanced by the ravings of an extremist talking head like Matt Walsh (political commentator) is utterly bizarre. Are we going to add commentatary from the Bernie Sanders' Dank Meme Stash or the Revolutionary Communist Party, USA next? We can summarize well referenced commentary about the follow-up comments by the former president whose initials are DJT, but is adding his (what I consider to be) bat shit crazy comments really an improvement? Maybe an intern wrote that swill. If so, that intern wrote something completely the opposite of how law enforcement officials describe the video footage, which includes installed security camera footage and police bodycam footage. The disinformation operatives seem to be hard at work. I suggest that we deny them a foothold in this article. Cullen328 (talk) 04:22, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

Oh please. Read the article. It slams Trump Jr., and sources it to three left-wing news outlets. Then it says "such claims had spread among the Republican mainstream", and sources that to the New York Times and Washington Post. Then when an editor tries to refute what the left accused Trump Jr. of, and provide the conservative narrative on the political response to the attack...that's foul editing and undue, and you best stop editing this article. The article just can't resist adding some vacuous comment by Charlie Kirk, whose Wikipedia article got 117,285 pageviews in three months, but when Matt Walsh, whose Wikipedia article gets 377,164 pageviews in three months, calls out the BS from the left, it's dismissed as "ravings". Read any conservative media and they're all saying the same things: the perpetrator was mentally ill and pretty much hated everyone (including Democrats), and the media only cares when the victim is a Democrat. The only nod to the right is the inclusion of the Washington Post saying that the most popular narrative is that this relates to crime in Democratic cities. You may not like conservative opinions, but our readers deserve a more fulsome explanation then just the voices of right-wing wackos sourced by the NYT, WP, and BBC. Magnolia677 (talk) 08:40, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

@Magnolia677: - you want to include Matt Walsh, but by your own writing [2], Walsh's point is that "the media ... just believe that Republicans deserve to die." That's frankly irrelevant to this article, and if you think that is relevant, we have a problem. starship.paint (exalt) 09:40, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

@Starship.paint: I agree that bit of hyperbole can be excluded. Hey, what about the line in the article that suggests spending too much time believing in covid hoaxes and stolen elections can push crazy people to do violence like this? Magnolia677 (talk) 10:50, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

@Magnolia677: - the problem isn’t the hyperbole. The problem is its relevance. Even if it were true that the media wanted Republicans dead, it has nothing to do with this article, this isn’t “Attack on Rand Paul” or “Attack on Steve Scalise” or “Media coverage of politician attacks”. You can’t even claim double standards since Walsh outright said it wasn’t a double standard. Also, please quote the line you have a problem with. starship.paint (exalt) 14:02, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

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Malcolm Lubliner

Several reliable sources have made reference to the name of the landlord of the garage that DePape was living in:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/01/us/pelosi-attack-depape-arraignment
.html "Ciccarelli helped the landlord of Mr. DePape, Malcolm Lubliner"
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/da-dismisses-conspiracies-pe
losi-attack-charges-expected-92437555 "Malcolm Lubliner, the landlord of David DePape, removes DePape's belongings from a home in Richmond, Calif., Monday, Oct. 31, 2022."

Given that Lubliner is the owner of the address listed in the registration data WhoIs displays for FrenlyFrens he seems like a person possibly worth mentioning here.

Presently the article says this much:

The day after the attack, investigators searched a garage in Richmond, California, where DePape had lived for the previous two years

Lubliner did photography for Grateful Dead as seen in https://www.google.ca/books/edition/A_Long_Strange_Trip/84aLDQAAQBAJ?h
l=en&gbpv=1&pg=PA218-IA11

Fans of Grateful Dead are known as Deadheads which is what Gypsy Taub is described as in https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Naked-truth-behind-Gypsy-Taub-s
-nude-nuptials-5070034.php when Olessia changed her name to Gypsy. HearthHOTS (talk) 23:07, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

I'm worried we might be introducing irrelevant details to this article. It's too detailed already. — Nythar ( ) 23:13, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

No, we don't need to name DePape's former landlord or mention DePepe's ex's favorite band. Feoffer (talk) 23:27, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
Absolutely not. Why in the world are these relevant? Also serious WP:BLP issues for naming the landlord (who presumably had nothing to do with any acts committed by his tenant). Neutralitytalk 00:37, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
Something tells me you really need to review WP:BLP policy. Love of Corey (talk) 01:50, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I found what I believe to be his facebook page

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:


archive dot org and archive dot today both are not allowing me to archive it to bypass the membership requirement to view the page.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Yeah. It is weird.

Almost like it was orchestrated by some dipshit Democrats.

I want to see the security video. I want to see the photographs that the police took. Not the doctors, the police.

A) You know the Pelosi's have the state of the art security system.

B) As a victim of an assault myself, I know that the police take photographic evidence of physical damage.


Otherwise, at this point, this event didn't even really happen.

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Falsus in unum, falsus in omnibus

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Originally posted by whozit:
We're likely not going to see shit, remember how long it took to see the mug shots from his DUI. By the way, where was Nancy? It seems every time something awful happens to her hubby she's nowhere around.

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Quote:

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Originally posted by whozit:
We're likely not going to see shit, remember how long it took to see the mug shots from his DUI. By the way, where was Nancy? It seems every time something awful happens to her hubby she's nowhere around.

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Maybe she put a hit out on him and it went south.

She didn't want to give a job to a "Trumper" so she learned the hard way that people with pronouns in their Twitter bio are unemployable.



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Falsus in unum, falsus in omnibus

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Police Chief William Scott said during a Friday news conference that officers arrived at the Pelosi home for a well-being check

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shortly before 2:30 a.m. PT. Police then witnessed an attack on Paul Pelosi. Both DePape and Paul Pelosi held a hammer moments before a violent confrontation, Scott said.

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"The suspect pulled the hammer away from Mr. Pelosi

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and violently assaulted him with it,"

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he said. "Our officers immediately tackled the suspect, disarmed him, took him into custody, requested emergency backup and rendered medical aid."

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Paul Pelosi did not kill himself.

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Falsus in unum, falsus in omnibus

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Paul Pelosi did not kill himself.

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Falsus in unum, falsus in omnibus

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Of course not, bc he's not dead.

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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
And of course.... If you read the Lefty shill websites, it was SUPER ULTRA MAGA MEGAFORCE that was responsible for the "attack". Even Joe Biden* gave an angry speech yesterday reiterating that lie.

As a full-fledged ULTRA-MAGA Representative, I fully reject David De Pape's application into MAGA and denounce his actions on October 28th, 2022.

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Scott said that responding officers witnessed the suspect attacking Paul Pelosi with a hammer. Scott told reporters that the officers knocked on the front door, and it was "opened by someone inside" to reveal Paul Pelosi and the suspect, just inside the home's entryway, struggling over control of a hammer.

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A CBS News review of suspected social media posts by DePape shows him spreading conspiracy theories about Holocaust denial, pedophiles in the government, and claims that Democratic officials run child sex rings.

The attack comes less than two weeks before the midterm elections. President Biden, speaking at a Democratic party fundraiser in Pennsylvania Friday night, described it as "despicable."

"There's too much violence, political violence, too much hatred, too much vitriol," Mr. Biden said.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
The story is incomplete.

So, somebody invades the Pelosi's home (with it's presumably latest and greatest security system)...

and... starts a conversation? Allows bathroom breaks?
And Paul Pelosi finds... aside from his cellphone on charge in the bathroom... a hammer?
And then, not content with locking himself in the bathroom and calling he decides to go on the offensive with a hammer?

I dunno. This whole story has "bubblegum [somehow] got on the dog" quality. Maybe when Paul fully recovers from surgery he can fill in the gaps.
.

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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Photos of the scene show that broken glass was not inside the house but was found outside the house.

This hippie prostitute wanted no part of whatever Fauci sauce Paul was trying to inject into him.

It looks as though Paul and the mysterious third person that let the police in were trying to murder David De Pape.

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Falsus in unum, falsus in omnibus

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Your right about the CBS story. If Paul and David were both struggling over the the hammer, who let the police in?

Shame on the police and M$M for constructing such shoddy, unsatisfying narratives!

This is like Epstein's operation and Hillary's pay-for-play State Dept amd Biden's laptop, just smaller. So many loose threads just waiting to be tugged. But we'll never, ever get the whole story. And then it will be memory-holed.

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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Seems like SECOND is avoiding the website altogether.


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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
It's seems that once again I've been too generously overestimating Second's intelligence.

The gulf that separates my intelligence level from Ted's is wider than the grand canyon. Second is somewhere firmly in the middle.

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Falsus in unum, falsus in omnibus

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San Francisco DA Won't Release Police Bodycam Video, 911 Calls From Paul Pelosi Attack

Thursday, Nov 03, 2022 - 07:52 AM

Authored by Jack Phillips via The Epoch Times (emphasis ours),

San Francisco’s top prosecutor confirmed Wednesday her office will not release police body camera footage or 911 calls from the alleged Paul Pelosi attack late last week.


Authorities said that David DePape, 42, allegedly broke into the San Francisco home of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and her husband Paul during the early morning hours of Oct. 28, according to court documents, before he allegedly struck Pelosi with a hammer. No security camera footage, police body camera footage, or 911 calls have been released.

When pressed about releasing more evidence in the case, San Francisco District Attorney Brooke Jenkins told NBC News that her office will not.

“Are you planning to release the 911 call or any body camera video [from the Paul Pelosi attack]?” asked NBC’s Kristen Welker on Wednesday.

“Not at this time,” replied Jenkins. “We’re going to find out today the speed at which this case will proceed once he’s arraigned. We’ll make decisions about what evidence gets played in court, during any hearings, or during the trial,” Jenkins added.

The San Francisco Police Department denied a public records request from The Epoch Times for body camera footage from the officers who responded to the Pelosi home, stating that “disclosure of information may endanger successful completion of the investigation.”

Requests for the 911 call and the police incident report are pending.

According to court documents, prosecutors said that DePape allegedly told investigators that he was on a “suicide mission” and sought to break Speaker Pelosi’s kneecaps, although she was not there at the time of the attack. DePape pleaded not guilty in a state court on Tuesday.

“I’m sick of the insane … level of lies coming out of Washington, D.C. I came here to have a little chat with his wife,” DePape also allegedly told officials, adding, “I didn’t really want to hurt him, but you know this was a suicide mission. I’m not going to stand here and do nothing even if it cost me my life,” according to the documents.

The U.S. Capitol Police (USCP) also wrote on Nov. 2 that it has cameras at the Pelosi home but said they weren’t being monitored when DePape entered the residence. The agency said cameras aren’t “actively monitored” unless Nancy Pelosi is at home.

Authorities at the USCP’s Command Center didn’t see anything unusual at the Pelosi home until they noticed police activity.

While Democrat officials have claimed that DePape was a right-wing radical, his neighbors and the mother of his children painted a different picture. On Wednesday evening, President Joe Biden, in a midterm stump speech, tied alleged threats to U.S. institutions to the attack targeting Pelosi’s longtime husband.

Independent Michael Shellenberger wrote that he went to the alleged former home of DePape in Berkeley, a city located near San Francisco that has long been a center of left-wing activism.

“And, as I discovered yesterday, DePape lived with a notorious local nudist in a Berkeley home, complete with a Black Lives Matter sign in the window and an LGBT rainbow flag, emblazoned with a marijuana symbol, hanging from a tree.

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Originally posted by JAYNEZTOWN:
Pelosi says attack on husband impacts political future - 'Never thought it would be Paul'

https://www.express.co.uk/news/us/1693764/nancy-pelosi-paul-pelosi-att
ack-congress-democrats-midterms-dxus

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Paul would have been fine if he wasn't banging far-left illegal alien male prostitutes on the side.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Paul Pelosi did not kill himself.

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Of course not, bc he's not dead.

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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake

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Originally posted by JAYNEZTOWN:
Key Detail Changed in New Filing Against Alleged Paul Pelosi Attacker
https://www.ntd.com/key-detail-changed-in-new-filing-against-alleged-p
aul-pelosi-attacker_881063.html
Authorities have refused to release the bodycam footage from the responding officers and any 911 calls connected to the incident.

Quote:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:

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Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Paul Pelosi did not kill himself.

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Of course not, bc he's not dead.

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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE someone poor - William Blake

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Maybe he means to say DePape did not kill himself?

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