REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

The Secrets Inside Your Dog's Mind

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Thursday, August 11, 2011 08:47
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Wednesday, August 10, 2011 7:58 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Just 'cuz, a break from politics and religion and arguing:
Quote:

Brian Hare, assistant professor of evolutionary anthropology at Duke University, holds out a dog biscuit.

"Henry!" he says. Henry is a big black schnauzer-poodle mix--a schnoodle, in the words of his owner, Tracy Kivell, another Duke anthropologist. Kivell holds on to Henry's collar so that he can only gaze at the biscuit.

"You got it?" Hare asks Henry. Hare then steps back until he's standing between a pair of inverted plastic cups on the floor. He quickly puts the hand holding the biscuit under one cup, then the other, and holds up both empty hands. Hare could run a very profitable shell game. No one in the room--neither dog nor human--can tell which cup hides the biscuit.

Henry could find the biscuit by sniffing the cups or knocking them over. But Hare does not plan to let him have it so easy. Instead, he simply points at the cup on the right. Henry looks at Hare's hand and follows the pointed finger. Kivell then releases the leash, and Henry walks over to the cup that Hare is pointing to. Hare lifts it to reveal the biscuit reward.

Henry the schnoodle just did a remarkable thing. Understanding a pointed finger may seem easy, but consider this: while humans and canines can do it naturally, no other known species in the animal kingdom can. Consider too all the mental work that goes into figuring out what a pointed finger means: paying close attention to a person, recognizing that a gesture reflects a thought, that another animal can even have a thought. Henry, as Kivell affectionately admits, may not be "the sharpest knife in the drawer," but compared to other animals, he's a true scholar.

It's no coincidence that the two species that pass Hare's pointing test also share a profound cross-species bond. Many animals have some level of social intelligence, allowing them to coexist and cooperate with other members of their species. Wolves, for example--the probable ancestors of dogs--live in packs that hunt together and have a complex hierarchy. But dogs have evolved an extraordinarily rich social intelligence as they've adapted to life with us. All the things we love about our dogs--the joy they seem to take in our presence, the many ways they integrate themselves into our lives--spring from those social skills. Hare and others are trying to figure out how the intimate coexistence of humans and dogs has shaped the animal's remarkable abilities.

Trying to plumb the canine mind is a favorite pastime of dog owners. "Everyone feels like an expert on their dog," says Alexandra Horowitz, a cognitive scientist at Barnard College and author of the new book Inside of a Dog: What Dogs See, Smell, and Know. But scientists had carried out few studies to test those beliefs--until now.

This fall, Hare is opening the Duke Canine Cognition Center, where he is going to test hundreds of dogs brought in by willing owners. Marc Hauser, a cognitive psychologist at Harvard University, recently opened his own such research lab and has 1,000 dogs lined up as subjects. Other facilities are operating in the U.S. and Europe.

The work of these researchers won't just satisfy the curiosity of the millions of people who love their dogs; it may also lead to more effective ways to train ordinary dogs or--more important--working dogs that can sniff out bombs and guide the blind. At a deeper level, it may even tell us something about ourselves. Lots more at http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1921614,00.html]

Brian Hare, a professor of evolutionary anthropology at Duke University, has developed an experiment to test whether dogs have an innate ability to understand human gestures.


Professor Hare argues that dogs, unlike other intelligent species, like chimps, can easily learn to follow a pointing finger.


The lab is equipped with multiple cameras to observe the natural behavior of dogs during the tests.

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Wednesday, August 10, 2011 9:04 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Henry the schnoodle just did a remarkable thing. Understanding a pointed finger may seem easy, but consider this: while humans and canines can do it naturally, no other known species in the animal kingdom can.


I totally dispute this, I know for a fact cats can, and at least one horse very much so, and as such this is a something of a flaw in his theory at the core - unless he means instinctive understanding, and that instinct would have developed via the domestication process of wild dogs so I am not sure it'd be entirely natural that way either.

Of course, understanding what you MEAN by pointing somewhere or at some thing, doesn't either necessarily mean the critter in question cares, or is willing to pay your will any mind at all, as the general feline response to that is something along the lines of kiss-my-furry-ass.


-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Wednesday, August 10, 2011 10:16 AM

KIRKULES


I think it's interesting that when they do these type of experiments with Wolfs, they are unable to take ques from man. It seems this ability only exists in domesticated dogs even though all dogs are almost genetically identical to wolfs, dogs seem to have evolutionized mentally slightly since teaming up with man.

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Wednesday, August 10, 2011 12:28 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Shoot, I didn't realize it was unique or anything.

I taught my dog that trick a number of years ago. She knows concepts of "inside" and "outside" as well. If we're outside and I tell her "Go inside," she'll head to the door and wait for me - or go inside if the door's open. Better still, if I just point at the door, she'll head that way, even from a couple hundred feet away!

She'll take the pointing cue if I tell her to chase the cats, too. I can point at either of them and say "Get the cat!", and she'll pounce after the one I point at.

By the way, the chasing-the-cats thing is purely a game for all involved. The cats used to come up to her and bat her on the nose to get her to chase them and play, and she wasn't sure what to do, so I started encouraging her to chase them. They love it - they run, they get scared, and they come back for more. It's like they're thrill-seeking, doing the same as kids going on a roller coaster, putting themselves in "danger" but knowing no harm will come to them.



Interesting that wolves won't take the cues, though. Seems dogs really have evolved a bit in the interim.

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Wednesday, August 10, 2011 12:33 PM

BYTEMITE


I often communicate with my brother's dog entirely by pointing.

And with people... I don't actually talk much IRL.

Cats can manage something similar, but it requires tapping the object or ground near it instead of just pointing (possibly because they're easily distracted?). However, cats understand when you point at THEM. Particularly if it's preceded by a loud "HEY!"

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Wednesday, August 10, 2011 1:12 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


I'm of the view that humans and dogs have become hard wired to relate to each other.

Truly, they are man's best friend.




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, August 11, 2011 8:36 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

doesn't either necessarily mean the critter in question cares, or is willing to pay your will any mind at all, as the general feline response to that is something along the lines of kiss-my-furry-ass.
Hee, hee, hee, well said, Frem. I HAVE already mentioned one of my favorite quotes about how cats are different from dogs, haven't I? "You tell a dog to do something, he will; you tell a cat to do it, and he'll probably take a message and get back to you...or not!"


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Thursday, August 11, 2011 8:38 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Yeah, Kirk, I found that interesting too. I'm guessing it's connected to wolves fending for themselves so understanding the communication only of their own species, while dogs have long since become dependent on us, so paying attention to what we want has more meaning to them.

That doesn't explain cats, of course... ;o)


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Thursday, August 11, 2011 8:44 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Mike, obviously you don't have huskies. Tell them to "go inside" (if you're stupid enough to have them off leash outside the house in the first place) results in a "play bow" and the clear statement "Make me! I dare you!" followed by the dog running off down the road in the hopes you'll chase him.

Mind you, on the trail or at a dog park, he MIGHT come to you, if you have treats and if he's not too busy investigating something else... But at the house? No WAY!

And Byte, hollering "Hey!" to a husky usually makes him look up at you with all the innocence in the world if he's caught doing something he shouldn't, or the above.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Thursday, August 11, 2011 8:47 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


(Getting up off the floor) My gawd, a reasonable response by Raptor! I'm feeling faint again...[/snark]

However, joking aside, I agree with both statements.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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