REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

GOP Decides to Charge People for Attending Their Town Hall Meetings

POSTED BY: KWICKO
UPDATED: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 08:32
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Tuesday, August 16, 2011 2:42 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)




http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/61454.html

Quote:


It will cost $15 to ask Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) a question in person during the August congressional recess.

The House Budget Committee chairman isn’t holding any face-to-face open-to-the-public town hall meetings during the recess, but like several of his colleagues he will speak only for residents willing to open their wallets.

Ryan, who took substantial criticism from his southeast Wisconsin constituents in April after he introduced the Republicans’ budget proposal, isn’t the only member of congress whose August recess town hall-style meetings are strictly pay-per-view.

Rep. Ben Quayle (R-Ariz.) is scheduled to appear Aug. 23 at a luncheon gathering of the Arizona Republican Lawyers Association. For $35, attendees can question Quayle and enjoy a catered lunch at the Phoenix office of the Snell & Wilmer law firm.




But they're really NOT for sale. You just have to pay $15 or more to ask them a question. And they are deathly afraid to appear in public where their own constituents can address them WITHOUT paying cash money to them for the privilege.

So much for people having the right to seek redress of grievances from their elected representatives.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill


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Tuesday, August 16, 2011 3:26 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Free Market BABY!

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, August 18, 2011 4:56 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Careful - Cheney might hear you say that and misunderstand, thinking you have some for sale!

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Friday, August 19, 2011 3:10 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


So they're holding fund-raisers. Big whoops.

Other people do that too, but ask a bit more than $15 or $25.

Quote:


CHICAGO — For many men, turning 50 can be a day of reckoning, marked by graying hair, a slowing step and the wistful recognition that you are probably never going to make it to the corner office. What could be better, at such a melancholy moment, than to celebrate at home, among old friends?
But if you are already in the corner office, and it’s oval, you get to celebrate your 50th at a fund-raiser in a Chicago ballroom, with Jennifer Hudson singing “Happy Birthday,” Herbie Hancock jamming and 100 “friends” paying $35,800 a plate to commiserate over dinner, while bankrolling your bid to keep your job.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/04/us/politics/04obama.html?_r=1

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Friday, August 19, 2011 3:15 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


There is a separation between fundraising event and Townhall meeting. A Townhall meeting is public event, in which constituents get meet their representative and ask questions. It's part of the job of being a representative. It's not a fundraiser. It's bad enough that politicians have to fundraise as much as they do. Jiminny, Geezer, you want to turn politics into a money-event even more than it already is?? .

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Friday, August 19, 2011 3:20 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


So if these are "fundraisers", where are the "town halls"? THOSE have always (I believe) been free to the legislators' constituents, have they not? So they must be out there as well, or else the Republicans are starting a whole new precedent. Which is it?

If there are no town halls, then it's pretty cheesy to start charging people, in this economy, to talk to their representatives, don'tcha think?


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Friday, August 19, 2011 3:30 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Well no. See, Geezer believes in free market politics: representation for the highest bidder.

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Friday, August 19, 2011 3:56 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
There is a separation between fundraising event and Townhall meeting.



Yep. and these folks are holding fundraisers during the recess. So? Nowhere does the article state they don't hold town hall meetings at all. In fact, per the article, Rep Ryan will "... host telephone town hall meetings but no free events in person during the recess, spokesman Kevin Seifert said. Seifert said Ryan is also “holding business tours and office hours throughout the recess.”, so folks apparently have access to him.

Also, the concept that a person interested in confronting their representative would be dissuaded by a $15.00 charge for a chicken dinner seems a bit unbelievable.

Sorry, but this article is spinning so hard it could power all of Rep. Ryan's district.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Friday, August 19, 2011 4:01 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Well no. See, Geezer believes in free market politics: representation for the highest bidder.



If that were so, I'd have to assume that Pres. Obama, at $35,800 a plate, must aim to please a better-off class of donors than Rep. Ryan, at just $15.00. Power to the (Rich) people, indeed.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Friday, August 19, 2011 4:35 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Geezer, They do it too is a sorry excuse. If it's wrong when Obama does it, then it's wrong when Ryan does it, and it gets progressively more and more wrong the more it happens and the more people it affects.

Correct?

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Friday, August 19, 2011 4:41 AM

DREAMTROVE


In their defense, my local republicans actually have town hall meetings to determine policy, and the ny dems do not: they think up policy in little academic think tanks. I suspect our republicans are better than most though.


That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Friday, August 19, 2011 5:21 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Geezer, They do it too is a sorry excuse. If it's wrong when Obama does it, then it's wrong when Ryan does it, and it gets progressively more and more wrong the more it happens and the more people it affects.



Well, in my example, it's actually "They do it much bigger". (And way to dodge the real issue, BTW)

However, the real problem is that the article is bogus. Ryan does hold town hall meetings, and has office hours for constituents to meet him. He's just not having face-to-face town hall meetings during this recess. He's having fundraisers and phone-in town hall meetings.

And as noted, if folks who want to confront him during this recess aren't willing to go to his office or pay 15 bucks for some rubber chicken and an argument, then they don't seem be that concerned.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Friday, August 19, 2011 2:53 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
There is a separation between fundraising event and Townhall meeting.



Yep. and these folks are holding fundraisers during the recess. So? Nowhere does the article state they don't hold town hall meetings at all. In fact, per the article, Rep Ryan will "... host telephone town hall meetings but no free events in person during the recess, spokesman Kevin Seifert said. Seifert said Ryan is also “holding business tours and office hours throughout the recess.”, so folks apparently have access to him.



Actually, if the idea is that town hall meetings are a place for constituents to meet with their elected representatives, free of charge, for an airing of grievances, then yes, the article does indeed say that, inasmuch as it says "no free events in person during the recess".

The idea that folks have access to him FOR A PRICE is the entire point of the article.

Quote:


Also, the concept that a person interested in confronting their representative would be dissuaded by a $15.00 charge for a chicken dinner seems a bit unbelievable.



So you're on record as being in favor of "pay to play" government, then.

Quote:


Sorry, but this article is spinning so hard it could power all of Rep. Ryan's district.



I think they'd get more power if they utilized the bullshit you're spewing as a fuel source.


"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Friday, August 19, 2011 5:50 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Georges Bush and Bill Clinton Blythe Rockefeller only require $150,000 to speak to their Satanic masses.

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Saturday, August 20, 2011 6:18 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I agree that constituents should be able to confront their legislators without having to pay for the opportunity. We do rather pay their salaries, don't we? And even $!5 is pretty tough for the poor at this time in history, so it's not a matter of it not being important to them, it's more a matter of priorities.

I'd also add that the fact they're doing it during this recess is no proof they won't make it a permanent policy; we can only wait to see. Telephone town halls are nothing like the same.

I think it's pretty obviously a way to avoid dissent over their policies, which have become more and more right wing and do not agree with the will of the people, so they can rightly expect dissent. I don't see many Democrats doing so...yet...tho' given the mentality of legislators, I'll bet they start following suit before long; it's yet one more way to avoid representing their constituents.

Yup, apparently the two might well be connected:
Quote:

In what appears to be an effort to avoid the free-for-all town halls that have plagued recent contentious congressional recesses, Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) and other Republican members of Congress have chosen to charge admission to their home-district appearances.

Ryan will speak September 6 to the Whitnall Park Rotary Club in Greenfield, Wisc. Admission to the event is $15 per person and includes lunch.

Ryan has no free public town hall appearances scheduled during the recess.

The last time he held a free town hall, in Milton, Wisc. in April, Ryan was booed while trying to explain his proposal for the federal budget, which included drastic cuts to entitlement and benefit programs. Other Republicans around the country were on the receiving end of similar heat from their constituents. Ryan even had police remove one heckler from a town hall event in Racine, Wisc. http://www.opednews.com/Quicklink/Paul-Ryan-Charging-Town-Ha-in-Genera
l_News-110817-923.html?show=votes
, legislators meet with their constituents at their offices...where they get to CHOOSE who to talk to. It's not the same thing at all.

We'll have to wait and see if this becomes a trend, or eventually just how it's done. It won't keep everyone out, but it will sure mean those who can't afford it won't be able to listen to their legislators or question them in public. Unconscionable in my opinion, as town halls have been the ONE place constituents have been able to publicly call their legislators to account.

And there is a HUGE difference between a fund raiser...given for specifically the purpose of raising funds...and avoiding dissent by charging for what should be FREE appearances in front of constituents. There is simply no comparison.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Saturday, August 20, 2011 6:33 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Well, in my example, it's actually "They do it much bigger".
Do you really want to go down that road, Geezer?

Quote:

And way to dodge the real issue, BTW.
What IS the "real" issue? I thought the real issue was removing the last free (no-cost, unrestricted) access to YOUR representative... who, as was pointed out... supposedly WORKS FOR YOU.

Quote:

However, the real problem is that the article is bogus. Ryan does hold town hall meetings
Free?
Quote:

and has office hours for constituents to meet him.
Yes, where you get to make an appointment.. or maybe not get one at all... and don't get to hear what other people are saying and maybe add your voice to a collective opinion?

Quote:

He's having ...phone-in town hall meetings.
Technically, can't handle more than a few people at a time, if they even bother to go that route. Again, has the effect of restricting access and reducing groups to individuals. This seems to be more about backlash-control than fundraising. Because, EVEN IF YOU DISAGREE WITH THE GUY, you wind up having to "support" his re-election effort just for the "privilege" of telling him in a public forum what you think.

BTW- Weren't you in favor of "free speech" zones, too?

I thought this whole nation was supposed to be a free speech zone.

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Saturday, August 20, 2011 7:52 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Do you really want to go down that road, Geezer?


Hey, if you think fundraising is bad when Republicans do it $15.00 a plate, is it still bad when Democrats do it at $35,800.00 a plate? Seems like the big ticket would restrict access pretty effectively.


Quote:

What IS the "real" issue? I thought the real issue was removing the last free (no-cost, unrestricted) access to YOUR representative...who, as was pointed out... supposedly WORKS FOR YOU.


In Rep Ryan's case, it's removed for the Congressional recess period - Aug. 08 through Sept. 05 - except it's not because he's holding phone-in town hall meetings and has office hours for constituents. How often does he have to have in-person town hall meetings to satisfy you?

Quote:

Free?

The town hall meetings have been free, as far as I can tell. The fundraisers, have not been free, hence the name "fund raiser".

Quote:

Yes, where you get to make an appointment.. or maybe not get one at all... and don't get to hear what other people are saying and maybe add your voice to a collective opinion?
Any evidence he doesn't see anyone, or any group, who wants an appointment?

Quote:

Technically, can't handle more than a few people at a time, if they even bother to go that route.
Rep. Ryan's staff said they'd have them. You have any evidence they won't?
Quote:

Weren't you in favor of "free speech" zones, too?


Nope.

Quote:

I thought this whole nation was supposed to be a free speech zone, and your representative was supposed to be listening to you and at least providing SOME unrestricted access while they were "at home".


Rep. Ryan is providing avenues for constituents to communicate with him, He's just not doing in-person town hall meetings for a period somewhat less than a month. You (and the person who wrote the article) are making up a non-existant crisis.

BTW, if Republicans are holding less town hall meetings (And I'm not saying yea or nay on that), they're apparently following the example of their Democratic counterparts, per the NY Times.

Quote:

Democrats Skip Town Halls to Avoid Voter Rage

BEL AIR, Md. — The reception that Representative Frank Kratovil Jr., a Democrat, received here one night last week as he faced a small group of constituents was far more pleasant than his encounters during a Congressional recess last summer.

Then, he was hanged in effigy by protesters. This time, a round of applause was followed by a glass of chilled wine, a plate of crackers and crudités as he mingled with an invitation-only audience at the Point Breeze Credit Union, a vastly different scene than last year’s wide-open televised free-for-alls.

The sentiment that fueled the rage during those Congressional forums is still alive in the electorate. But the opportunities for voters to openly express their displeasure, or angrily vent as video cameras roll, have been harder to come by in this election year.

If the time-honored tradition of the political meeting is not quite dead, it seems to be teetering closer to extinction. Of the 255 Democrats who make up the majority in the House, only a handful held town-hall-style forums as legislators spent last week at home in their districts.

It was no scheduling accident.


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/07/us/politics/07townhall.html

So does Rep. Kratovil's 'invitation-only' audience qualify as 'unrestricted' access? How about all the other Democrats listed in this article who reduced or eleminated their town hall meetings?

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Saturday, August 20, 2011 8:30 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I think that Geezer is right on some points. The title of this thread is politically divisive while lacking merit.

Politicians across the board have been doing this sort of thing for a while. We should despise them all without reservation when they sell of themselves what should be given freely. Our own party first, because they are closer to us, and so we have the greatest responsibility to object.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Saturday, August 20, 2011 9:59 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

The town hall meetings have been free
No. He has not held a free town-hall meeting at all, they have all been charged events. His people has said he will not be holding any more town-hall meetings this recess.

There is a vast difference between a fund-raiser and a town-hall meeting in which a REPRESENTATIVE is publicly open to questions from his CONSTITUENTS. These pay-per-view meetings are NOT fundraisers, as the legislators themselves have said.

You have no way of proving that they meet with any and all constituents in their offices, or even take their calls. I have no way of proving they don't, as well, but given this situation, it's a fair bet.
Quote:

In Rep Ryan's case, it's removed for the Congressional recess period
I thought one of the points of a Congressional recess period was so that the Congressman could return to his district and hear from his constituents. Otherwise, it's not a Congressional recess, it's a vacation.

Yes, Democrats were burned after the disruptions over health care; there's proof that instructions were sent out to people on exactly HOW to disrupt those town halls. And the Democrats mentioned in the link you posted? Not ONE of them held a pay-per-view event.

As to the Republicans during THIS recess:
Quote:

... politicians who outsource their meetings to third parties can keep out the bulk of the angry public, sidestep YouTube embarrassments, and ensure smoother, PR-friendly ...And while such paid events are nothing new...in the past they were accompanied by free, public town hall meetings. http://www.newser.com/story/125939/want-to-ask-paul-ryan-a-question-pl
ease-pay-15.html
]....
Norman Ornstein, an expert on Congress at the American Enterprise Institute, says he can't remember a time like now when it appeared as though lawmakers were avoiding meeting with the public.

"Many of these Republicans either rode into office or capitalized on a wave of anger expressed at town hall meetings," he said. "They know how potent they can be. They know Americans aren't happy with Congress and, especially, not happy with them."
.....
Quayle's spokesman, Richard Cullen, is quoted as saying the Arizona congressman hosted different free events related to jobs, such as a jobs fair, but has no plans for an open town hall meeting. Spokesmen for other members of Congress cited in the Politico stories say lawmakers are trying to hold different types of events to meet with their constituents and have no control over what outside groups do, such as charging a fee to cover the cost of lunch. http://content.usatoday.com/communities/onpolitics/post/2011/08/town-h
all-meetings-republicans-paid-events-/1
House Budget Committee chairman isn't holding any face-to-face open-to-the-public town hall meetings during the recess, but like several of his colleagues he will speak only for residents willing to open their wallets.
.....
Where is all this money going? In the case of that Paul Ryan meeting, Politico's Reid Epstein reports that it's going toward a "catered lunch of meat and potatoes" provided by the hosts -- the Whitnall Park Rotary Club.

I suppose if you are fighting off a foreclosure or trying to stretch every dollar to ensure your kids get fed tonight, you'd better think very carefully about your household budget before you decide to ask Paul Ryan a question about the economy. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/16/town-hall-meetings_n_928701.h
tml
they're not fundraisers. They're friendly venues where they can charge an entrance fee, replacements for open-to-the-public town-hall meetings, period.
Quote:

Two more members of Congress are refusing to hold free, open town hall meetings for constituents during the August recess and instead appearing only at paid events, POLITICO has learned.

Neither Reps. Lou Barletta (R-Penn.) nor Renee Ellmers (R-N.C.) held or have scheduled town halls, but Barletta appeared last week at a $30-per-plate “CEO to CEO” forum and Ellmers is scheduled to speak at a federal employees’ forum that is charging a $13 admission fee.

Barletta and Ellmers join Reps. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) and Ben Quayle (R-Ariz.), who POLITICO reported Tuesday are all appearing at pay-per-view functions while eschewing town hall meetings open to all.

Another tactic for avoiding crowds of angry voters is being employed by members like Rep. Chip Cravaack (R-Minn.), who held two town hall events — but in far-flung, relatively unpopulated parts of his northeastern Minnesota district, while doing only paid events in Duluth, the district’s population and media hub.

Barletta, according to the Times-Tribune of Scranton, Penn., spoke at a $30-per-plate Greater Wilkes-Barre Chamber of Business and Industry “CEO to CEO” forum last week. Would-be protesters were not allowed to buy tickets and reporters were barred, the paper wrote, “because [they] are not chamber members or CEOs.”

Barletta’s move comes after he came under intense fire from constituents at April town hall events in his district. {When Barletta held open town halls in April: "Any lawmaker in a swing district can expect to take criticism from his right flank at a town hall meeting. But at an American Veterans outpost tucked deep in the Pocono Mountains this week, freshman Republican Rep. Lou Barletta took heat from every direction — from Democrats angry with the tax cuts in the GOP budget, to conservatives who thought he caved on the last continuing resolution vote, to a precocious 16-year-old critical of the lawmaker’s environmental record."}

Barletta spokesman Shawn Kelly said Barletta is not holding any free town hall events, and did not make the congressman available for an interview to explain his decision. Barletta told the Times-Tribune he was “just a guest” at the chamber function, which was also closed to reporters.

Ellmers is due to appear before a National Active and Retired Federal Employees meeting at a local Holiday Inn Aug. 24. The entry fee is $13, the Fayetteville Observer wrote.

Ellmers spokesman Tom Doheny said the fee is to cover a meal the group is providing.
.....
POLITICO was unable to find any Democrats engaging in a similar practice.
.....
Media Matters’s Political Correction blog highlighted Ryan’s 2009 statements in defense of aggressive questions for Democrats at their town hall meetings during the health care debate.

“This is the same Paul Ryan who held 17 ‘health care listening sessions’ during the 2009 August recess. Way back then, Ryan latched onto town hall anger in press releases, claiming to ‘welcome the debate,’ and even bragged on TV that ‘I shattered the attendance record at my town halls’ and ‘my town halls ran about 9- or 8-to-1 against the health care bill,’” wrote Alan Pyke. “Now the shoe is on the other foot, so Ryan is avoiding open ‘listening sessions’ with voters who reject his budget ideas.”
.....
“Americans have a constitutional right to petition their government for a redress of grievances,” he blogged. “That doesn’t only apply to lobbyists, and it doesn’t come with an cost attached to invoke that right.” http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/61554_Page2.html

Why don't we get real? They learned the lesson in the health care town halls, where they gave people INSTRUCTIONS on how to disrupt the meetings. They experienced it themselves in April, when UNpaid constituents were upset about a number of their actions. They aren't willing to put themselves out there to answer for their actions to the public again. That's the truth of it.

They're not fundraisers, they're closed meetings for specific friendly constituents, and in some cases even barring anyone who might disagree with them AND the press. Both parties do it, and it's pretty natural they don't want angry town halls on TV or YouTube. But this is the first time ONLY paid events are taking place. Those are the facts. NOBODY called it a "crisis", it's just political gamesmanship. That doesn't make it right.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Saturday, August 20, 2011 10:08 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


As to who they'll talk to and who they won't, I found this:
Quote:

In the meantime, he said, Ellmers has been holding “tele-town halls,” conference calls with constituents. “We had one August 2nd, the day after the vote on the debt ceiling. The [invitation] call went out to 16,400 people. We had 5,000 people on the tele-town.” http://www.wral.com/news/state/nccapitol/blogpost/10012004/ think that pretty much answers who they will and who they won't speak to. The "tele-town halls" are by INVITATION.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Saturday, August 20, 2011 11:02 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
No. He has not held a free town-hall meeting at all, they have all been charged events. His people has said he will not be holding any more town-hall meetings this recess.


But I wasn't talking about town hall meetings just in this recess. I was talking about town hall meetings in general. You should have known I meant it that way. Also, he is holding telephone town hall meetings during the recess, so saying he's not holding town hall meetings is incorrect.

Quote:

There is a vast difference between a fund-raiser and a town-hall meeting in which a REPRESENTATIVE is publicly open to questions from his CONSTITUENTS. These pay-per-view meetings are NOT fundraisers, as the legislators themselves have said.

Not in the Politico article, they didn't. Even the article notes they are "...outsourcing the events to third parties that charge an entry fee to raise money...", which seems like the very definition of a fundraiser to me.

Quote:

You have no way of proving that they meet with any and all constituents in their offices, or even take their calls. I have no way of proving they don't, as well, but given this situation, it's a fair bet.

Evidence? Proof? Wishful thinking?



Quote:

I thought one of the points of a Congressional recess period was so that the Congressman could return to his district and hear from his constituents.
Which people can still do by visiting his office, attending a phone-in meeting, or by email or snailmail.

Quote:

Yes, Democrats were burned after the disruptions over health care; there's proof that instructions were sent out to people on exactly HOW to disrupt those town halls.

Yes. They were so "Un-American" as Nancy Pelosi branded them. Interesting how, in your view, if Democrats are hassled it's an un-American plot, but if Republicans are hassled it's free speech. Double standard, perhaps?

Quote:

And the Democrats mentioned in the link you posted? Not ONE of them held a pay-per-view event.
They don't hold fundraisers? I gotta admit, rebranding fundraisers as 'pay-per-view' when Republicans hold them is pretty spinny.

Quote:

... politicians who outsource their meetings to third parties can keep out the bulk of the angry public, sidestep YouTube embarrassments, and ensure smoother, PR-friendly ...And while such paid events are nothing new...in the past they were accompanied by free, public town hall meetings.

Wow. Quote an article that's pretty much a plagarized version of the Politico article, even to reporting on the same Congressmen. Sorry, but that's not too convincing.

Actually, it's almost like they're channeling a quote from the NY Times article.
Quote:

And to reach thousands of constituents at a time, without the worry of being snared in an angry confrontation with voters, more lawmakers are also taking part in a fast-growing trend: the telephone town meeting, where chances are remote that a testy exchange will wind up on YouTube.

but that was about Democrats.



Quote:

....
Norman Ornstein, an expert on Congress at the American Enterprise Institute, says he can't remember a time like now when it appeared as though lawmakers were avoiding meeting with the public.



Apparently Mr. Ornstein doesn't read the New York Times, or has a pretty selective memory. Otherwise he'd have noted the story I cited above.


Let's see. then you cite USA Today which is citing the Politico article, and then Huffingtonpost, which is quoting directly from the Politco article. Great corroborating sources.

Yep. Let's get real. The Politico article is a political hatchet job; something for all the liberal outlets to pick up, change a word here or there, and push out to the faithful. It takes the fact that some Republicans aren't holding in-person town hall meetings during four weeks of the August recess and trys to turn it into a massive conpiracy to silence opinion or dissent. And the faithful ovrlook it's obvious bias in writing and sources and just lap it up.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Saturday, August 20, 2011 11:06 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
I think that pretty much answers who they will and who they won't speak to. The "tele-town halls" are by INVITATION.



No. ONE Tele-town hall was by invitation.
If you spin much faster, you're gonna distort local gravity.

ETA: Your link doesn't work.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Saturday, August 20, 2011 12:06 PM

FREMDFIRMA



FYI, Bel-Air Maryland is a bastion of upscale political bootlickers, just so you know.
So is Columbia, MD - I hated visiting either one but frankly they had the only decent gunsmiths in the state so I hadda put up with them snobby upper crust gated community pissants and their fucking attitudes if I wanted the trigger on my Colt worked in cleaner.


That said, I got to speak with Dingell the Dingbat at that culinary graduation I mentioned elsewhere since he showed up for it, but really for once I didn't have much to say, since ole Dingbat is ALREADY addressing most if not all of the issues I feel he needs to, he was a little miffed I didn't chew on him a bit, I guess it offended his sense of rightness in the world...

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Saturday, August 20, 2011 12:56 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
The "tele-town halls" are by INVITATION.



Out of curiosity, I looked at the website of my Congressman, Gerry Connolly (D.). He's a big fan of Telephone Town Halls. He has an on-line form you can fill out and he'll phone you an INVITATION to his next town hall.

http://connolly.house.gov/index.cfm?sectionid=102§iontree=6,102

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Sunday, August 21, 2011 4:49 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


We should be able to see Members of Congress without restriction during their recess. They work for us. The best, most efficient way to see your constituents- is during an OPEN PUBLIC MEETING.

Now, when people come in and prevent others from speaking - THAT is un-American. The disrupters have just taken away another person's freedom of speech, and they should be escorted out by the Sergeant at Arms.

I am willing to apply those rules to anyone on any issue in any forum.

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Sunday, August 21, 2011 5:45 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
We should be able to see Members of Congress without restriction during their recess.


At 3:00 a.m.? When they're meeting with other people about other interests? When they're attending the funeral of a serviceman from their district?
Quote:

They work for us.

They work for all the people in their district. Should you be able to monopolize their time with your issues, to the exclusion of everyone else?
Quote:

The best, most efficient way to see your constituents- is during an OPEN PUBLIC MEETING.

Nope. If your representative is doing nothing but holding OPEN PUBLIC MEETINGS to allow you to "be able to see Members of Congress without restriction...", then when do they get any work done on specific issues for specific constituencies - say retirees, parents, veterans, etc. You can't get much done about details of specific issues like that in a free-for-all public meeting.

Quote:

Now, when people come in and prevent others from speaking - THAT is un-American.

But that's pretty much what you're proposing - that groups of folks with specific interests don't get time to discuss them fully with their representative, because he or she has to hold all meetings as town halls and allow anyone who wants to show up for whatever reason to speak. When that turns out to be someone with a 50 page speech about how dogs should be required to wear pants, what about the folks who want to discuss the details of jobs or Social security?

BTW, I'd bet that if you look on your representative's web page, you'll find a fill-in form for constituents and groups to schedule meetings about specific issues when they're in their district. Have you complained to them that you're not invited to all these meetings? That might be a good place for you to start.

BTW again. I know that I can email my state and national representatives and generally get a cogent reply that indicates to me that someone in their office, even if not the legislator, has read my email. Maybe you should try this amazing new technology.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Sunday, August 21, 2011 6:20 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Saying I should know what you're saying is disingenuous Geezer, and you know it. I can only go by what you write.
Quote:

Even the article notes they are "...outsourcing the events to third parties that charge an entry fee to raise money...", which seems like the very definition of a fundraiser to me.
Yes, Geezer, I saw mention of that. Unfortunately, the legislator's THEMSELVES, and their staffers, quite clearly say the fee was to cover the lunch, and said they have no "control" over what the Rotary Club (or whatever) charges.
Quote:

A rep for Ryan says... that Ryan played no part of the Whitnall Park Rotary Club’s choice to charge that $15 entry fee.
Quote:

Spokesmen for other members of Congress cited in the Politico stories say ... have no control over what outside groups do, such as charging a fee to cover the cost of lunch.
Quote:

“She was invited to speak to the group,” Doheny said. “She’s a guest speaker. The reason they’re charging an entrance fee is because they’re serving lunch. We wish they weren’t charging an entrance fee, but it’s their event.”
Quotes from articles I cited previously.

Anyone with half a brain isn't kidding themselves. This is coordinated, obviously. They got together with Rotaries and business groups and planned this after what happened to them in April. Nobody said the Republicans aren't smart about how they handle their constituents and avoid discomfort whenever possible.

As to evidence; you show me yours, I'll show you mine. Neither of us can, and it's my opinion that, given they're holding these pay-per-view meetings--which are a way to avoid embarrassment and being confronted by constituents who might disagree with them--that they're not about to talk to them on the phone either. I don't believe you're that stupid; mine is an opinion formed on current evidence.

Of COURSE constituents can TRY to get through to them by those means. But if they're not trying to avoid a potentially embarrassing situation, why not have the USUAL open town halls? Why have them in out-of-the-way places? I'm sure you have an opinion as to why, but given the situation, the feelings of the majority of American people, it should be obvious to anyone that they're finding ways to avoid controversy. The Dems didn't see it coming last year or they'd probably have done something similar. It's politics, nothing more.

As to a plot (where exactly did I say it was unAmerican?) That sentence is straight out of Raptor, nothing more. There is PROOF, an instruction sheet that was given to people telling them exactly how to disrupt Democrats' town-hall meetings, have you forgotten that? No such material has been found regarding Democrats this time, and until you produce one, the fact remains that at least SOME Republican attendees were given instructions that told them clearly to DISRUPT the town halls and how to do it. No plot, just a political ploy.

Dissing the source has nothing to do with the facts; the facts are that, by holding pay-per-view events, they DO minimize confrontation with the public, which they know is angry with them. Matters not who wrote it, and you can find it all over the internet in different forms. People aren't stupid; it's obvious. You want to defend them, which I understand. I've never said Dems wouldn't do the same--I'm pretty sure if they'd known what they were in for last year, some of them probably would have looked for ways to avoid the spectacles.
Quote:

In what appears to be an effort to avoid the free-for-all town halls that have plagued recent contentious congressional recesses, Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) and other Republican members of Congress have chosen to charge admission to their home-district appearances.

The last time he held a free town hall, in Milton, Wisc. in April, Ryan was booed while trying to explain his proposal for the federal budget.... Other Republicans around the country were on the receiving end of similar heat from their constituents. http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/08/16/paul-ryan-charges-admission-to-t
own-halls-blocks-angry-constituents
/

Oh, and from the same article:
Quote:

Ryan's spokesman, Kevin Seifert, stressed that the rotary club had invited Ryan to be a speaker, so the congressman had nothing to do with the admission price.

"He has no control over the cost of the event any more than he has control over the menu," Seifert said.

Another article makes a very pertinent point:
Quote:

There's a big difference between public space and private space. If you're standing in a public space - a public school or library, a park, on a streetcorner, for example - your right to be there is protected by the First Amendment's provision protecting the right to assembly, and your right to speak your mind is protected by the First Amendment's right of Free Speech.

But if you're in a private space - like the office where you work, or in a theatre where you paid to be let into a corporate-owned for-profit place - you have no rights under the First Amendment. http://www.opednews.com/articles/How-Republicans-avoid-angr-by-Thom-Ha
rtmann-110817-594.html
hadn't thought of that, but it makes sense. Another good point they made:
Quote:

Republicans are reaching out to groups like the Republicans Lawyers Association - the National Federation of Independent Businesses - maybe the Chamber of Commerce - or even Koch industries - to sponsor and/or run their town halls - and charge people money to ask their Republican congressmen and women questions - and keep a black list to make sure anybody who may ask a tough question - can't get in. {There's no proof of that, so I'm not saying it's so, just that it's possible - Niki} This is taking the idea of running government like a business to extreme lengths. Government is not a business...it's We The People.
Oh, and here's a statement FROM one of them that shows it's something they planned:
Quote:

GOP Freshmen Share How To Handle Town Hall Anger

The town hall techniques Republicans have honed are no accident. GOP Rep. Paul Gosar and Rep. Andy Harris both say the 87-member freshman class routinely trades tips on how to manage, or avoid altogether, the town hall spectacles....

“That’s one thing about the freshmen lawmakers, we do talk,” Gosar said. “We spend some time (on) `What happened to you, did you have a town hall, how’d it go, what was the major issue of the day, how did you respond?” http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2011/05/21/gop-freshmen-share-how-to-han
dle-town-hall-anger/
rest my case on that point.

As to invitations to telephone town halls, if you don't think they have databases on who's Republican and who's Democrat, you're being naive. You're smarter than that, so again, I believe you're being disingenuous.

This is a tactic I'm sure both parties have used, and I'm sure both check to see who they want to send an invite to. Can you prove that everyone who sends in a form for an invite receives one? Again, I can't prove they don't, you can't prove they do, so it is MY OPINION that it's logical they check voter rolls and invite who they want to.

I've never thought you were stupid, Geezer; these political maneuverings are pretty predictable and, as I said, if the Dems had known what was coming last year, they'd no doubt have done something similar. AND I would have decried the practice by them, too. I don't think many of them thought of holding pay-per-view meetings only; I believe these sorts of meetings are held frequently, but previously ALONG WITH open town halls. I think the Reps who are doing it this recess got together and looked for ways to avoid the media showing the anger that would obviously come their way, given what they faced in April. I wouldn't like it from either party, so we'll just have to wait and see if the Dems try it next time they know they'll face angry town halls.

All your snarks sound more like Raptor than how I remember you communicating; maybe my memory is faulty, but it would be nice if you could debate without getting personally nasty. Yes, I said I think you're being disingenuous and that I think you're smarter than to believe the things you're writing in an attempt to defend the tactic, but otherwise I have tried to be civil. Not that I can expect it, given recent exchanges, but it would be nice if you could make some effort to do the same. Or not.

By the way, I clicked on all the links I provided previously, and they all worked for me. Must be a glitch somewhere, you might try again.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
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Sunday, August 21, 2011 6:38 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Lord Geezer, you're sounding more and more like Raptor all the time! What a shame:
Quote:

At 3:00 a.m.? When they're meeting with other people about other interests? When they're attending the funeral of a serviceman from their district
That's just plain ridiculous. Who said anything about being able to meet them ANY TIME?
Quote:

Should you be able to monopolize their time with your issues, to the exclusion of everyone else?
Who said anything about "monopolizing", or excluding anyone else? Shouldn't all constituents have the opportunity to hear from and ask questions of their representatives? What you wrote is extreme, as is
Quote:

doing nothing but holding OPEN PUBLIC MEETINGS
Representatives normally hold a few town-hall meetings, probably as well as a few paid events where they speak, and meet with constituents individually during recess, and always HAVE, and the town halls don't take up ALL their time, they have plenty of time to work on numerous things over the recess. They SHOULD also have plenty of time while in Congress to work on things as well; to say meeting with a group of constituents openly a couple of times during recess (which I believe is part of what recess is ABOUT, isn't it?) will take up all their time is, in my opinion, reaching.

As to your snark about the "amazing new technology", I do the same, and also get cogent replies from my representatives or their staffers. I think many of us do; but those are always forms, everyone should know that, on whatever specific issue about which they expect to receive queries.
Quote:

that groups of folks with specific interests don't get time to discuss them fully with their representative, because he or she has to hold all meetings as town halls and allow anyone who wants to show up for whatever reason to speak.
Again, you are totally misrepresenting what was written. Who said anything about "Discuss fully"? Who said anything even slightly resembling "ALL" meetings? Who said anything about approving of 50-page speeches on whatever? People ask questions all the time at town halls--I doubt you can come up with many examples of what you wrote, which is a very extreme example. People should be able to ask questions of their representatives publicly, on the spot, so as not to just get form responses and carefully-worded written replies. It's served us well for many, many years; why are you so adamant that suddenly it's a bad thing--which is what everything you're writing indicates?

I also don't understand why it apparently was perfectly all right with you that the Democrats' town halls were disrupted so much last year--in some cases certainly, on instructions from Republicans detailing how to do so--DELIBERATELY DISRUPT, mind you, not just ask questions. Yet now when some from the other party, not wishing to go through what they did in April, are finding ways to avoid it, you think that's perfectly okay and make all kinds of rather absurd responses in doing so. Why is that? If you are at all able to answer that without getting in the gutter, again, that would be nice. Or not.


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Sunday, August 21, 2011 9:04 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Saying I should know what you're saying is disingenuous Geezer, and you know it. I can only go by what you write.


It wasn't disingenuious when you said the same thing?

Quote:

Anyone with half a brain isn't kidding themselves. This is coordinated, obviously. They got together with Rotaries and business groups and planned this after what happened to them in April. Nobody said the Republicans aren't smart about how they handle their constituents and avoid discomfort whenever possible.


Anyone with PN's brain perhaps. Business groups and civic associations have been asking congresspersons (Democrat and Republican) to speak for a century or more, but, to you, if it's Republicans, its suddenly a conspiracy.

...and then more quotes from more copies of the same article...

Quote:

As to invitations to telephone town halls, if you don't think they have databases on who's Republican and who's Democrat, you're being naive.


Any you're being paranoid.

And of course you believe the drivel from the liberal feel-good sites, but completely ignore the NY Times article about Democrats doing the same, or worse.

Hope you enjoy the Kool-aid.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Monday, August 22, 2011 7:22 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Geezer, you're an ass.

By "without restriction" I meant "without restriction in a tome slot meant for public input".

HOWEVER you bring up an interesting point:
Quote:

If your representative is doing nothing but holding OPEN PUBLIC MEETINGS to allow you to "be able to see Members of Congress without restriction...
If our so-called representatives spend MORE time listening to their constituents, and LESS time schmoozing and boozing with bigwigs, maybe our government would do more of what we want (public option, bring the troops home, tax the rich) and less of what we don't want (fracking, bailing out banks).

Quote:

But that's pretty much what you're proposing - that groups of folks with specific interests don't get time to discuss them fully with their representative, because he or she has to hold all meetings as town halls and allow anyone who wants to show up for whatever reason to speak. When that turns out to be someone with a 50 page speech about how dogs should be required to wear pants
Clearly, you didn't quote the part of my post that didn't fit your usual straw-man agenda: When people prevent OTHERS from speaking, that is un-American.

Yanno, there are Robert's Rules of Order. And if you've ever been to a public meeting, or ANY consultative meeting... and I'm sure you have... you would know that people are often required to submit their topic and be recognized by the chair, and ALWAYS held to a time-limit so as to let other people have time to speak.

I've been to Townhall meetings (our agency holds them), and even in very contentious overflow situations, it is possible for a variety of opinions to be heard.

For example, there was a local activist environmental group with a series of beefs about the environmental quality in their neighborhood. They were asked to stand up and identify themselves so that everyone on the crowd knew how many there were (quite a few!); and each one got to speak, along with everyone else who had an opinion about the issues.

It made for a very long meeting at the end of what was an already long day. But... so what? That's part of our job... to listen to what people want. And I have to say I was very impressed with the energy, knowledge, and heart of the people who showed up. Not everyone was an eloquent speaker, but everyone had a story to tell.

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Monday, August 22, 2011 9:36 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
By "without restriction" I meant "without restriction in a tome (time?) slot meant for public input".
...
Yanno, there are Robert's Rules of Order. And if you've ever been to a public meeting, or ANY consultative meeting... and I'm sure you have... you would know that people are often required to submit their topic and be recognized by the chair, and ALWAYS held to a time-limit so as to let other people have time to speak.



In this case folks are still at risk of being restricted in their access 'in a time slot meant for public input', by having to submit their topic and wait to be called upon...or not. It's still gonna depend on who's running the meeting, how much time they have, and what they want the focus to be.

Also, in consultive meetings where I worked, attendence was by invitation. Just anyone couldn't show up and voice an opinion, and the chair of the meeting was generally pretty strict about keeping comment on-topic.

Quote:

If our so-called representatives spend MORE time listening to their constituents, and LESS time schmoozing and boozing with bigwigs...

Looking at my representative's schedule and news releases during recess, he's mostly 'schmoozing' with retiree groups, small business associations, veterans, etc. If he does any 'schmoozing and boozing' with bigwigs, it's with lobbyists when Congress is in session. Look at most Representative's schedules during recess and you'll find the same thing.

I'm still of the opinion that, while town hall meetings may be a good opportunity for legislators to get the pulse of their constituancy, they aren't the only way by any means - email, snailmail, polling, and meetings at scheduled, invitation-only events can provide good feedback as well. Also, town halls are not an appropriate or efficient forum for in-depth discussions of a single issue that needs to be talked over with the people affected by that issue.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Monday, August 22, 2011 12:01 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


We hold scheduled public hearings, workshops, and advertized Town Hall meetings (in which anyone can bring up any topic of concern) as well as open Board subcommittee and Board Meetings. In addition, we do teleconferences and take opinions online, in person, and over the phone. Anyone is free to attend.

As far as contacting my Congresswomen, I have called their local offices, their DC offices, sent letters, signed petitions, filled in their online forms, and attended townhall meetings. The only thing I haven't done is made an appointment to see them in their office.

I don't think that Town Hall meetings are the ONLY venue for expressing an opinion, or for a government official to gather opinions. But nothing has an impact like a face-to-face public meeting. You have to express yourself in real life, not only to your rep but also to your fellow citizens. You also get to hear what others have to say. Turning this free-speech tradition into a fundraiser is anathema to what this country is supposed to be about.

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Monday, August 22, 2011 4:18 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
As far as contacting my Congresswomen, I have called their local offices, their DC offices, sent letters, signed petitions, filled in their online forms, and attended townhall meetings. The only thing I haven't done is made an appointment to see them in their office.



I've also emailed my Congressman (D) and state legislator (R) and gotten responses from both.

Quote:

I don't think that Town Hall meetings are the ONLY venue for expressing an opinion, or for a government official to gather opinions. But nothing has an impact like a face-to-face public meeting. You have to express yourself in real life, not only to your rep but also to your fellow citizens. You also get to hear what others have to say. Turning this free-speech tradition into a fundraiser is anathema to what this country is supposed to be about.


I don't disagree with this. However, deciding that since a few representatives of the party you don't like do not hold town hall meetings in a four week recess period means that their enire party is completely cutting themselves off from their constituents is kind of stretching it. Also, you most admit that congressfolk of both parties have to hold fundraisers in the current political world.

BTW, Madame G and I will be going to Richmond for a couple of days to see the Faberge exhibit at the VMFA and enjoy the Jefferson, so don't expect any response until Thursday.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Monday, August 22, 2011 4:50 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Geezer, you're an ass.



That covers this entire thread pretty well.

Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!

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Monday, August 22, 2011 4:54 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:

That covers this entire thread pretty well.



Back under the bridge, please.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Monday, August 22, 2011 7:02 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:

That covers this entire thread pretty well.



Back under the bridge, please.

"Keep the Shiny side up"




Are you lonely under there?

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Tuesday, August 23, 2011 11:09 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

deciding that since a few representatives of the party you don't like do not hold town hall meetings in a four week recess period means that their entire party is completely cutting themselves off from their constituents is kind of stretching it. Also, you most admit that congressfolk of both parties have to hold fundraisers in the current political world.
Interesting. Where did anyone say an entire party is completely cutting themselves off from their constituents? The title says "GOP", but I'm not responsible for the title, and I don't think anyone said, or thought, that the "entire party" was doing it, or that anyone was "completely cutting themselves off from their constituents". Apparently that's what you read?

Secondly, according to the legislators themselves, and their staff, THEY ARE NOT FUNDRAISERS. The fee supposedly covers lunch, did you somehow miss all the times that was posted? Or is it deliberate? I can't figure out why you keep calling them fundraisers--thereby equating them to REAL fundraisers--when the people involved themselves say they're not. A couple of times journalists have referred to the idea of them making some money off it, but I'd give more credence to what the legislators themselves and their staff said.


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Wednesday, August 24, 2011 4:24 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

I've also emailed my Congressman (D) and state legislator (R) and gotten responses from both.
Oh, you got the form letter/ email/ phone response (Thank you for calling...) too?

yipee.

Townhall meetings... where are can get some back-and-forth with your rep, maybe knock 'em off script a little bit.

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Wednesday, August 24, 2011 5:43 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Yup, Sig. They're pretty well practiced in non-answers and script, but it's still worth it to be able to ASK them stuff and watch their body language, etc., to try and ferret out the truth. Any way you look at it, we elected them (supposedly); we have a right to hear them and ask them questions in public, in my opinion. I'd be just as pissed off if Democrats did it to this extent.


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Friday, August 26, 2011 2:57 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:

I've also emailed my Congressman (D) and state legislator (R) and gotten responses from both.
Oh, you got the form letter/ email/ phone response (Thank you for calling...) too?

yipee.



Actually, I had quite an email exchange with my state legislator over the Virginia prison system's segregation and virtual solitary confinement of Rastafarian prisoners, on the theory that they might be able to hide weapons in their dreadlocks. Don't think I changed his mind, but he knew my opinion.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Friday, August 26, 2011 3:04 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Secondly, according to the legislators themselves, and their staff, THEY ARE NOT FUNDRAISERS. The fee supposedly covers lunch, did you somehow miss all the times that was posted?



When you post several articles about the same staffer saying the same thing several times, that doesn't mean it happened several times.

Also, as I've asked several times, how does charging a nominal amount for a lunch prevent anyone who's interested from going to the meeting and getting rubber chicken with their discussion? If they were charging a couple of hundred bucks, maybe, but $15.00?

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Friday, August 26, 2011 6:37 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


When you start answering my questions, rather than repeating the same argument, maybe we can have a discussions. I've presented facts, quotes and cites, you've CHOSEN to mischaracterize what I and others have said. That's different from providing backup. So:

As to a plot (where exactly did I say it was unAmerican?)

If they're not trying to avoid a potentially embarrassing situation, why not have the USUAL open town halls?

Why have them in out-of-the-way places?

Who said anything about "Discuss fully"?

Who said anything even slightly resembling "ALL" meetings?

Who said anything about approving of 50-page speeches on whatever?

Where did anyone say an entire party is completely cutting themselves off from their constituents?

I don't think anyone said, or thought, that the "entire party" was doing it, or that anyone was "completely cutting themselves off from their constituents". Apparently that's what you read?

You're happy to make statements which twist what people are saying, but when I provide facts, you dismiss them. There are others doing the same thing...nobody ever said it was the whole party, but given how much effort I've put into backing up my points, and how you side step them every time, I'm not putting more effort into RE-googling what I saw before on legislators and/or their staffers who excused the charge as "for lunch".

Also, please glance at the thread on the poor and how much they pay in taxes. If you really think a single parent trying to make ends meet or a couple with both working just to get by and easily afford a fee to heat and question their representatives, you are missing the entire point.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Friday, August 26, 2011 7:29 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Well, hell, it only took a few minutes. Here are more:
Quote:

Spokesman Tom Doheny confirms Congresswoman Renee Ellmers has no town hall meetings scheduled for August. But she will speak to the monthly meeting of the National Active and Retired Federal Employees in Fayetteville on Aug. 24th. Attendees are required to pay for a $13 lunch buffet.

“She was invited to speak to the group,” Doheny said. “She’s a guest speaker. The reason they’re charging an entrance fee is because they’re serving lunch. We wish they weren’t charging an entrance fee, but it’s their event.” http://www.wral.com/news/state/nccapitol/blogpost/10012004/] Chip Cravaack (R-MN)
Quote:

outside a meeting sponsored by a business organization that was charging attendees a $10 fee for lunch.
He, by the way, was pressured by his constituents into holding one open town hall--at the airport, where people had to pay for parking in order to meet with him.
Quote:

By the way, as to the point about a fee not keeping people from meeting their representatives: Those who register in advance, providing their names and background information and writing their checks, might even get to ask their congressman a question.

That’s fine for the pay-to-play crowd.

But the folks on fixed incomes who are most threatened by Ryan’s proposed assaults on Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security will have to decide whether they can afford to be citizens. Some of them decided Thursday that Ryan’s price was too high. A group of unemployed workers staged a sit-in at his Kenosha office, while others protested outside, chanting “Ryan is a no-show, bring jobs to Kenosha.” The message from one of the largest cities in the district was blunt: “After being denied a meeting with Ryan after multiple requests over the last few weeks, the unemployed men and women have decided to sit down and wait for Congressman Ryan.” http://www.nationalmemo.com/article/jobless-demand-end-pay-view-town-h
all-meetings

So there are answers to both your dismissing that the fees are "for lunch" and that yes, it IS difficult for those with few resources to pay a fee to listen to and ask questions of their representatives.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Friday, August 26, 2011 7:34 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:

That covers this entire thread pretty well.



Back under the bridge, please.

"Keep the Shiny side up"



Riiiight, Im a troll for agreeing with most of those in this thread.

Sure. How's life up on your cross?

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Friday, August 26, 2011 2:21 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:

Also, as I've asked several times, how does charging a nominal amount for a lunch prevent anyone who's interested from going to the meeting and getting rubber chicken with their discussion?

"Keep the Shiny side up"



So how does charging those with incomes over $500,000 per year a nominal amount in increased taxes prevent them from creating jobs?

If it's such a minor thing, then what's all the furor about?

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Friday, August 26, 2011 2:26 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Heck, my Rep. is having a free town hall meeting tomorrow. He's a Democrat, of course...

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Saturday, August 27, 2011 4:01 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
When you start answering my questions, rather than repeating the same argument, maybe we can have a discussions.



I feel pretty much the same way about you.

Quote:

As to a plot (where exactly did I say it was unAmerican?)


Actually, that was SignyM. "Now, when people come in and prevent others from speaking - THAT is un-American."

You supported that statement with this: "there's proof that instructions were sent out to people on exactly HOW to disrupt those town halls." which leads one to believe you feel the same way.

Quote:

If they're not trying to avoid a potentially embarrassing situation, why not have the USUAL open town halls?
Just the way that you ask this question pretty much indicates your mind is already made up. However.
Other events scheduled? Rather have tele-town halls (like my Congressman(D))? Any number of reasons.

Quote:

Why have them in out-of-the-way places?
Out of the way for who? If they're in their District, they're close to someone. Could be a location with enough space to allow everyone that wants to attend a seat. Again, since you've already made up your mind, you'll find issues with any answer, no matter how reasonable.

Quote:

Who said anything about "Discuss fully"?

I did. I noted that town hall meetings don't provide an opportunity for specific groups to discuss issues of interest to them in detail.

Quote:

Who said anything even slightly resembling "ALL" meetings?

SignyM. When it was noted that representatives were giving access to their constituants in forums other than in-person town hall meetings, she insisted that "The best, most efficient way to see your constituents- is during an OPEN PUBLIC MEETING." And once again, you chimed in to show the weaknesses of all other forms of contact except the OPEN PUBLIC MEETING.

Quote:

Who said anything about approving of 50-page speeches on whatever?

SignyM. Although she waffled on it later. "We should be able to see Members of Congress without restriction during their recess."
I have seen folks use access without restriction to monopolize meetings with long-winded speeches on issues no one else cares about. If all, or even most, meetings are such free-for-alls, many important issues get overlooked due to time constraints.

Quote:

Where did anyone say an entire party is completely cutting themselves off from their constituents?

From the Politico article.

Quote:

It’s no secret why members of Congress would shy away from holding open town hall meetings — it’s no fun getting yelled at by angry constituents or having an uncomfortable question become an unfortunate YouTube moment.

By outsourcing the events to third parties that charge an entry fee to raise money, members of Congress can eliminate most of the riffraff while still — in some cases — allowing reporters and TV cameras for a positive local news story.


Note that there are no qualifiers - 'some' or 'many'. just 'members of Congress', with examples that are all Republicans.
And:

Quote:

After Republicans voted to gut Medicare and other vital programs while protecting tax breaks for millionaires and corporations, it’s not surprising that they would not want to face their constituents in an open forum,” said MoveOn.org Executive Director Justin Ruben.


Not 'some Republicans' or even 'most Republicans'. just 'Republicans'.

I do like the way being invited to speak at a meeting where the organizer charges a few bucks to provide food becomes "...outsourcing the events to third parties that charge an entry fee to raise money, (so) members of Congress can eliminate most of the riffraff...". Classic spin, that.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Saturday, August 27, 2011 4:04 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Riiiight, Im a troll for agreeing with most of those in this thread.



Nope. You're a troll for meeting the criteria.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Saturday, August 27, 2011 7:24 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Riiiight, Im a troll for agreeing with most of those in this thread.



Nope. You're a troll for meeting the criteria.

"Keep the Shiny side up"




In that case, Geezer, you'll have lots of company under your bridge. Wulfie, Rappy, PN, and more will be joining you in your sad little troll kingdom.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Saturday, August 27, 2011 7:27 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:


Not 'some Republicans' or even 'most Republicans'. just 'Republicans'.

I do like the way being invited to speak at a meeting where the organizer charges a few bucks to provide food becomes "...outsourcing the events to third parties that charge an entry fee to raise money, (so) members of Congress can eliminate most of the riffraff...". Classic spin, that.

"Keep the Shiny side up"




Talk about SPIN - you're claiming that because they said "Republicans" are doing a thing, and not "some" or "most" Republicans, then that means they're claiming that ALL Republicans are doing it.

Note that nowhere in any of the sources you cite does it say "ALL Republicans". Or even "most", or "some". It says that Republicans are doing this, and gives examples of specific Republicans doing this.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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