Another Fed judges rules O-Care mandate unconstitutional by AURaptor

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Another Fed judges rules O-Care mandate unconstitutional

POSTED BY: AURAPTOR
UPDATED: Wednesday, September 14, 2011 09:55
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Tuesday, September 13, 2011 7:38 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:

U.S. judge in Pa. rejects mandatory health insurance
Tuesday, September 13, 2011
The Associated Press
HARRISBURG -- A ruling by a federal judge in Pennsylvania says the requirement in President Barack Obama's health care overhaul that individuals buy health insurance was unconstitutional.

Judge Christopher Conner in Harrisburg issued the ruling today in one of more than 30 lawsuits nationwide that have been filed over the law. He says the individual mandate is an unconstitutional extension of authority granted to the federal government under the Constitution's commerce clause.

The suit was filed by a York County couple.

Separate lawsuits have already reached appeals courts in Richmond, Va., Georgia and Cincinnati, with two of those courts ruling in favor of the mandate. The matter is expected to be settled by the U.S. Supreme Court.

Judge Conner was appointed to the federal bench in 2002 by President George W. Bush.

Copyright 2011 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11256/1174367-100.stm#ixzz1Xr5Tf9z0

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Tuesday, September 13, 2011 12:38 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

And another one rules the other way...

http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/09/08/virginia.health.law/index.html

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Tuesday, September 13, 2011 12:47 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I remain hopeful that the provision requiring people to buy insurance will be struck down.

In the absence of a public option, such a provision seems like little more than theft to me. I can only imagine the sorts of crippled minimum coverage that people will be forced to buy to comply with this law. Insurance that does little more for the individual other than offer compliance. It seems not unlike a mafia group requiring me to buy protection or be subject to consequences. This already exists for automobiles. I do not want the policy to be expanded to include drawing breath.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Tuesday, September 13, 2011 2:06 PM

KWICKO

Quote:
It seems not unlike a mafia group requiring me to buy protection or be subject to consequences.

One key difference, Anthony: when you buy protection from the mob, you generally GET protection. (Sorry, I couldn't resist beating Frem to the punch on that one!)

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Tuesday, September 13, 2011 4:17 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

Anthony and Quicko made me laugh, and the thing is that they have a point.

I just think its stupid to require people, who obviously can't afford health insurance now, to buy it in a year or two, where will they get the money? Is it going to grow on trees? Even if premiums are a little less expensive, which they won't be, its still a lot of money. Generally if people can afford insurance they get it. I'm fortunate that I live in a state with better options than other states, I use Oregon Health Plan Plus. Its not perfect, but it sure is better than nothing and I'm thankful to no end that I have it.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, September 13, 2011 4:58 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
One key difference, Anthony: when you buy protection from the mob, you generally GET protection. (Sorry, I couldn't resist beating Frem to the punch on that one!)

Jerk!

Yeah, I was gonna say that...

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Wednesday, September 14, 2011 1:15 AM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
One key difference, Anthony: when you buy protection from the mob, you generally GET protection. (Sorry, I couldn't resist beating Frem to the punch on that one!)

Jerk!

Yeah, I was gonna say that...

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

[Channeling the kid from the 80s anti-pot commercial]"I learned it from YOU, Dad! Okay?! I learned it from YOU!!"

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Wednesday, September 14, 2011 3:56 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Riona, I believe people who can't afford health insurance are to be subsidized by some government program, if I recall correctly. That was part of the idea; if everyone were covered, even if the government had to subsidize some of them, it would be an improvement over people having the only option of the ER, for which everyone who HAS health insurance ends up paying. It's by far not a perfect solution, but again, I view it as only a first step, hopefully. Sounds to me like your state has opted for something along the lines of a public option already. from what you wrote.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Wednesday, September 14, 2011 4:33 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Minimum wage jobs and minimum coverage insurance seem to be part of the lofty future envisioned by our leaders for the American people.

Next year I shall have the first taste of my own insurance woes. I wait with trepidation to see what people in situations inferior to my own will have in the form of insurance coverage.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Wednesday, September 14, 2011 4:41 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
Minimum wage jobs and minimum coverage insurance seem to be part of the lofty future envisioned by our leaders for the American people.

Well, it's certainly what's envisioned (and being made to happen) by the Tea Party and Republicans! They adore Perry and that's what he's done in Texas, so that must be what they want for all of us (themselves excluded, of course).

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Wednesday, September 14, 2011 4:45 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I'm not sure how the republicans and democrats differ in this bold vision for our future. At the moment, it seems that any job and any coverage are suitable grounds for celebration and horn-tooting by our leaders.

In the realm of insurance, the message seems to be, "Well, anything is better than nothing." And I think that may prove to be a misguided attitude. Sometimes the wrong thing is less than useless.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Wednesday, September 14, 2011 5:02 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Definitely some things are worse than nothing. On the other ahnd, given the current health-care situation (especially as opposed to most of the rest of the world), something needs to be done, and when I look at history, that seems to be how good things come about. I'm going to continue to hope.

As to both sides being equal in their desire to keep things just the way they are rather than making any attempt to improve them, and to keep the gap between rich and poor widening, I only have to look at the things the dems TRIED to do, which the right stymied again and again, to feel differently. Letting tax cuts expire for the rich (which would have helped the country, the deficit, and jobs a LOT) is a prime example.

It's pretty easy to see that the Republicans are out for nothing but hopes of gaining power in 2012 when you look at their voting record and willingness to "compromise" (NOT) on virtually everything, it's pretty clear to me they want things to remain just as they are, or worsen.

Quoting a good thread started by KPO which was pretty much ignored and which says it all for me on this issue:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/09/09/michael-tomasky-data-
show-the-gop-s-one-sided-war-on-democrats.html?obref=obinsite

Quote:
Democrats and liberals, of course, complain that Republicans have been unusually uniform in their opposition to Obama’s major proposals. Conservatives sometimes rejoin that Democrats were just as firmly opposed to George W. Bush’s major plans. Centrists of the “both sides do it” school of political analysis are dedicated to the proposition that the partisan intensity of both parties is more or less equal.

...

Here’s how it all adds up:

Average Democratic Senate support for Bush: 45.5 percent.

Average Democratic House support for Bush: 36.8 percent.

Average combined Democratic support for Bush: 41.1 percent.

Average Republican Senate support for Obama: 8.8 percent.

Average Republican House support for Obama: 2.7 percent.

Average combined Republican support for Obama: 5.75 percent.

How can things improve if one side is determined to keep things as they are (which means letting them get worse)?

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Wednesday, September 14, 2011 6:07 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"How can things improve if one side is determined to keep things as they are"

Hello,

When the Democrats had the capability to take the measures needed to set this country on the right track, they failed.

Obama began failing the American people before he ever took the office of the President, when he voted amnesty for illegal wiretappers.

When the Patriot Act stood strong, when the Public Option was dropped, when the Wars were continued.

When pointless embargoes went on and on.

When indefinite, illegal detention practices were re-upped.

There is so much that could have been done, and so little of it has been done. It would be convenient to blame the Republicans for everything the Democratic party and the President has failed to do.

It would also be a lie. There is SO VERY MUCH they could have done, that they chose not to do.

Is it any wonder that the American people have begun to lose faith, and wonder why they voted for these people to begin with? Is it remarkable that they are standing in confusion, ready to vote back in the very bastards who started this mess? Why not, when the difference between then and now is so hard to see?

They have failed us all.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Wednesday, September 14, 2011 6:27 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

They have definitely failed us, you'll get no argument from me. My point is that even the good things they tried to do were stymied by the Republicans. When you FORCE every vote to have a 60-vote majority, I don't see how much of anything can be accomplished. Given the above figures regarding how the Republicans voted for ANYTHING Obama or the dems proposed, and in almost all cases required a filibuster-proof majority by merely THREATENING to filibuster (something I also blame Obama and the dems for not challenging them on), little or nothing can be done. I'd like to see any other administration which managed to do anything worthwhile when they were forced to come up with 60 votes in their own party while receiving NO votes from the other party, AND the other party making it so that they had to have every member of their party vote in order to pass anything.

The Republicans might pull it off. But the democrats don't have strictures on every party member towing the line; they had moderates and the Blue Dogs, so getting everyone to vote one way made things more difficult...you know, like it's supposed to work--that evil words, "Bipartisan".

You'll never convince me that things wouldn't be better now if the Republicans had been at all willing to compromise or back virtually ANYTHING the other side proposed. It's easy to say "they had a majority", a very simplistic argument regarding a complex situation; when that majority counts for nothing because everything is forced to override the threat of filibuster, the argument doesn't hold water for me.

I certainly agree with the things you pointed out and am as angry as anyone about them. But when it comes to helping the American people, I think strides could have been made which wouldn't have left us in the terrible shape we're in, if the Republicans had used their power as it was intended to be used.

I also agree wholeheartedly that what Obama has (and HASN'T) done are what has given the radical right so much power and made them seem promising to the voters. I weep for our country if they give in to the lure of "someone different", because I do think "those bastards" will make it unimaginably worse, should they get even more power. In that respect also, Obama has failed us miserably.

I'm no fan of Obama or how the dems have behaved, believe me, and many of the things he has done are truly abhorrent to me, but what the radical right WILL do, should it gain power, terrifies me. Should THEY get a 60-seat majority, I have no doubt they can force their people to stick together, and the result would be devastating for America.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Wednesday, September 14, 2011 9:55 AM

FREMDFIRMA

I don't think the public should get off so easy either.
Case in point, phone convo from about 20min ago.

James: *whine* it's not faairrr..
Me: Then maybe you shouldn't have voted for it.
James: I never wanted this!
Me: Yes you did, you just wanted it to happen to someone ELSE, well ain't karma a bitch.
James: Well now I don't want it!
Me: Too fucking bad, suffer and learn.
James: I hate you!
Me: Oh, and it's my fault for warning you beforehand, my fault for trying to stop it, my fault that you were a stupid fucking dickhead and didn't listen, and NOW you come whine to me, when it's too goddamn late, when you didn't stand up when it counted, and you're so blameless are you ?
James: FUCK YOU!!! *click*
(dialtone)

Repeat that about thirty times and see how sympathetic YOU are to their fucking whining.

So Joe Public bears some responsibility too, ESPECIALLY the ones going rah-rah-rah-kill-kill-kill, and calling you a traitor when you tried to warn them.

And of course should you take pity on them and tell them exactly what they need to do, as soon as they see it takes work, actual involvement or personal risk, they bail out immediately, and if you WERE stupid enough to stick your neck out for em, stab you in the back along the way.

Oh no, we can't put it all on the politicians, when without Jackals enabling them it could not have happened.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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