REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Teaching kids about how govt works

POSTED BY: CANTTAKESKY
UPDATED: Wednesday, November 30, 2011 14:09
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Sunday, November 27, 2011 4:13 AM

CANTTAKESKY


http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/11/26/1039899/-Gov-Sam-Brownbacks-s
taff-demands-apology-from-high-school-girl-who-correctly-noted-that-he-sucks


Goes to Frem's point on how kids are second class citizens with no rights. Pisses me off.

All this does is point out that Govt BB is a shithead.

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Sunday, November 27, 2011 5:22 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Just the title was enough to give me the giggles. Brownback is...well, again, I try not to be too obscene...

So I'll just say and move on.



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Sunday, November 27, 2011 6:21 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Good to see him and his staff stand up for free speech. ;)



Nothing the student tweeted was remotely untrue. Brownback does indeed suck and blow.

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Sunday, November 27, 2011 6:45 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Isn't that impossible? To suck and blow at the same time, that is? Or does he have some special talent?



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Sunday, November 27, 2011 8:15 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I think the inept political staff may have inspired a new tweet movement. What do they call these things? Hash Tags?

#BrownbackSucksandBlows

Honestly, when did our politicians lose their ability to massage the people? To calculate the best responses or non-responses? Isn't this politician 101 stuff?

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


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Sunday, November 27, 2011 9:05 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Indeed Anthony - it's never so much their villainry that bothers me so, so much as their utter INCOMPETENCE at it...
And above all things, I loathe incompetence.

S'funny - I mentioned before getting quite a dosage of how things REALLY work in my own school days, from the attempt to force me to give that stupid fascist mccarthyist pledge to the dress code war with the school my niece currently goes to, but this bit I dunno if I mentioned or not...

Third grade we had a test and one of the questions was what form of government we have, and after carefully researching the various types via both official and other sources, I answered -
Totalarian Oligarchy.

Man they went freaking BERSERK about it, all out of proportion to my assertion that based on actual CONDUCT, it applied no matter what you CALLED it - and sent me off to the shrinks again insisting their was something wrong with me, a move I didn't learn till much later was in effect straight out of the worst excesses of the Soviet Union, the insistence that one who defies tha State must be mentally ill, and make no mistake, we *DO* still pull that shit on kids in public school, even now.

Oh yes indeed I know how it really works, and if opposition to tyranny is considered mental illness, then I will revel in being batshit-crazy, neh ?

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Sunday, November 27, 2011 11:12 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Isn't that impossible? To suck and blow at the same time, that is?




You people have filthy minds. What I took from the high-school girl's tweet was that she believes that Gov. Brownback sucks air in and blows it out afterwards. He sucks, and he blows. In other words, he breathes. His staff takes distinct issue with this accusation, it seems.

I don't know why he's so upset about such an accurate reference to the breathing cycle; maybe he's just mad because someone is actually still learning something in a Kansas science classroom!

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Sunday, November 27, 2011 11:13 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

I think the inept political staff may have inspired a new tweet movement. What do they call these things? Hash Tags?

#BrownbackSucksandBlows

Honestly, when did our politicians lose their ability to massage the people? To calculate the best responses or non-responses? Isn't this politician 101 stuff?

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner





I believe the hashtag she referenced was #heblowsalot.

ETA: Yup, it's already trending on Twitter and being retweeted.

http://twitter.com/#!/JMWeishaar/status/139943250789281793/photo/1


"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Sunday, November 27, 2011 6:47 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


By the way, if you'd like to send Governor Brownback a little message on Twitter ( like, say, #heblowsalot ), you can find him at @govsambrownback.



"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Monday, November 28, 2011 2:27 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


I don't understand why a teacher would have cared so much, if I were them I would have simply marked it incorrect and moved on, why did they spend all that extra time hastling you instead of spending it doing other things, like actually helping students learn stuff? Don't answer that question, I know your school sucked brick.

My method for when I disagree with the stuff we were supposed to be learning was to preface the first paper or test in the unit with something to the tune of "I don't actually believe in this stuff/agree with what you are teaching us, but for the sake of simplicity, and my grade, I will give you the answers you are looking for". It always worked great and never caused a problem. I only had to do it once at the beginning of whatever it was too because the teacher got the clue and understood. So I parroted the answers they wanted, sometimes altering them slightly to fit my own beliefs, but not enough to lose marks for. If you'd had a good teacher she would have suggested this method when you really disagreed with what was being taught.
"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Monday, November 28, 2011 4:20 PM

CANTTAKESKY


The girl had 60 followers. Within a week, she's gotten 13,000.

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/11/28/us/kansas-high-schooler-tweet/index.
html?on.cnn=3


Now Gov Blows A Lot is apologizing to her.

Loving the power of twitter right now.

-----
Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth. -- Lucy Parsons (1853-1942, labor activist and anarcho-communist)

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Monday, November 28, 2011 4:31 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


FYI, Gov. Brownback only has 3000 followers as of last night.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Monday, November 28, 2011 4:35 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by canttakesky:
The girl had 60 followers. Within a week, she's gotten 13,000.

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/11/28/us/kansas-high-schooler-tweet/index.
html?on.cnn=3


Now Gov Blows A Lot is apologizing to her.

Loving the power of twitter right now.





Loving the power of social media more and more. This is pretty astounding - an 18-year-old young lady went up against a powerful Republican Governor (and former U.S. Senator), and held her own, and won. He backed down, and quickly.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Tuesday, November 29, 2011 7:31 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


No, he didn't "actually" apologize. He blamed his staffers, as politicians usually do:
Quote:

Kansas Gov. Sam Brownback apologized Monday for what he called his staff's "overreaction" to a disparaging tweet directed at him by a high school senior during a state Capitol visit.

Emma Sullivan, 18, said late Sunday that a Brownback staffer had notified her school's principal about the tweet, and the principal told her she had to write an apology to the governor. On Monday -- the deadline for the letter, according to the teen -- the Shawnee Mission School District issued a statement stating that "she is not required to write a letter of apology to the governor."

A statement issued by Brownback on Monday did not reference Sullivan by name or mention the prospect of any apology letter. He did emphasize his support for "freedom of speech," while thanking "the thousands of Kansas educators who remind us daily of our liberties, as well as the values of civility and decorum."

"My staff overreacted to this tweet, and for that I apologize," the governor said. "Freedom of speech is among our most treasured freedoms."

The teen made national headlines last week for a tweet she said was intended just for her friends.

During a Kansas Youth in Government field trip to the state Capitol on November 21, Sullivan wrote: "Just made mean comments at gov brownback and told him he sucked, in person #heblowsalot."

The Shawnee Mission East senior said she did not actually talk to Brownback, and the post referenced a joke she had with a student on the trip.

The next day, she was called into high school Principal Karl Krawitz's office.

"I had no idea what it was about or why I was being called into the office," she said. "I had never been in trouble before."

Sullivan claimed that the principal "told me he needed to do damage control and was really upset."

"He said I was an embarrassment to the school and the school district and that I had been disrespectful," she added.

The principal then asked her to write a letter of apology to Brownback and his staff. He set Monday as the due date for the letter. CNN contacted Krawitz's office but received no response.

Sullivan said Sunday night -- when she still thought the apology letter was due -- that she wouldn't write it, adding that her parents and many of her peers supported her decision.

"I don't think I should write the letter, and I don't think it would be the best move for me," she said. "At this time, I do not think an apology would be a sincere thing for me to do."

But that appeared to become a moot point when "district officials" in Shawnee Mission reviewed the case and asserted Monday that no apology was required and that no "further action" is expected on the issue.

"The district acknowledges a student's right to freedom of speech and expression is constitutionally protected," the district said in its statement. "The district has not censored Miss Sullivan nor infringed upon her freedom a speech."

"I hope that the governor realizes the power of the people and how people can make things happen," she said. "I also hope he will spend his time doing more productive things."

At the least, the student said that she hopes the controversy surrounding her tweet will bring attention to the issue of free speech.

"I hope there won't be any consequences and that my principal and the governor's office can move on," she said. "The issue is relevant and, if anything, is a starting point of dialog with the governor about his policies and how our First Amendment rights can be taken away."

The school district likewise framed the matter as something that could be educational.

"The issue has resulted in many teachable moments concerning the use of social media," the district said. http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/28/us/kansas-high-schooler-tweet/index.html
?hpt=hp_bn3
like this girl; she's smart and has it right. A sane person in a sea of insanity, ass-kissing and fear.

She sounds more mature than most of our politicians:
Quote:


Sullivan said it would have been nice to personally hear from Brownback.

"I'm disappointed that he didn't say anything directly to me or my parents or my family that he sent out this vague we overacted statement, but I am glad that they acknowledged the situation," said Sullivan.

I'm proud to hear that som of our kids aren't buying into the bullshit.




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Tuesday, November 29, 2011 7:37 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I like this opinion piece about it:
Quote:

There is a new scandal breaking involving an elected official, a young woman and Twitter. And, nope, it's not what you think.

This one involves 18-year-old Kansas high school senior Emma Sullivan, who was on a school trip last week to the Kansas state Capitol as part of the Youth in Government program. On her way back from the event, she jokingly tweeted to her then-65 followers on Twitter the following about Kansas Gov. Sam Brownback: "Just made mean comments at gov. brownback and told him he sucked, in person #heblowsalot."

When you tweet to 65 people on Twitter, it usually just ends there, quickly evaporating into the cybersphere -- tweets are truly the epitome of ephemeral.

That is unless you happen to tweet about the governor of Kansas. In a move that would have undoubtedly impressed Richard Nixon, the Kansas governor's director of communication, Sherriene Jones-Sontag, is charged with the daily monitoring of any negative comments about Brownback on social-media websites.

Jones-Sontag, finding this 73-character tweet by a high school student a threat to the good name of the governor, bolted into action. She contacted the Youth in Government organizers and expressed her outrage over the tweet. In turn, the event administrators, no doubt concerned that the governor's director of communication had taken the time to contact them, informed Sullivan's high school principal.

Sullivan soon found herself in her principal's office being scolded for nearly an hour. Bottom line: The principal has mandated the student write a letter of apology to the governor that is due Monday.

Sullivan, who says she was making a political comment on Brownback's conservative policies that she disagrees with, announced her refusal to apologize for criticizing the governor.

To me, there are a few issues that quickly jump out:

• Who else has the governor confronted for making negative remarks about him? Recent polls indicate that Brownback has a 52% disapproval rating -- with a majority of Kansas residents unhappy with his work. Responding to these type of tweets could become a full-time job.

• Is the governor spending taxpayer dollars to monitor his critics on social media?

• Which websites does his office monitor? Obviously Twitter, but what about Facebook and Foursquare? What about MySpace or Friendster? You never know -- someone stuck in 2007 could still be using those websites and making disparaging remarks about Brownback.

• Why is it that a conservative such as Brownback -- who generally opposes government regulations -- wants to regulate free speech? Is there an exception to his philosophy of less government when it is a regulation he likes?

• Can Brownback demand an apology from me because I tweeted this: "Rep Governor Brownback of Kansas demands that teen apologize for tweeting he sucks. #Brownbacksucks" -- and because I'm one of the people who boosted Sullivan's Twitter follower count to more than 7,000 since this story broke?

But the biggest question to me: Does the First Amendment apply in Kansas?

The message of Brownback's office and of the high school principal is alarmingly clear: If you criticize the governor, you could suffer consequences. That is something you hear about in a Third World nation that does not guarantee freedom of speech, not the United States of America.

We need to be especially vigilant in protecting freedom of speech when it involves commenting on the actions of our elected officials. That is one of the cornerstones of our democracy. Having to apologize to an elected official for criticizing him or her, however, undermines our nation by creating a chilling effect on free speech.
.....
He should be applauded for that. It sends an unequivocal message that criticism of our elected officials must not be limited in any way, and in fact, should be encouraged -- especially by the younger generation of Americans learning about our government.

However, it is still troubling that state funds are used to monitor social media websites to determine if anyone is mocking the governor. It has an eerie Big Brother feel, not to mention that it's a waste of tax payer dollars.]

Brownback should end that practice today, making his focus solely the issues facing all the residents of Kansas -- not whether he's popular on Facebook and Twitter. http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/28/opinion/obeidallah-brownback-tweet-apolo
gy/index.html?hpt=hp_bn9
on all counts, especially the ones I underlined.

And I say again what every news article seems to have missed: He didn't apologize, he threw his staffers under the bus.



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Tuesday, November 29, 2011 2:32 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Sullivan soon found herself in her principal's office being scolded for nearly an hour.


Been there, done that.

Public schools seem to be run by some of the most authoritarian pricks they can find who seem to think they're running a penal colony instead of an educational outlet - hell, Malone (one of the administrators I used to butt heads with till she finally saw the back of me) *WAS* a damn former prison warden...

I'd have recorded said administrators bitchout and put it on freakin youtube as well, since what they tell the parents and the public they said, is NOT what they say to you in that office, as a general rule - only issuing fightin words to me even back then was a pretty bad idea and they knew it, ergo they were *slightly* more polite than usual, but really it's all the same.

Any time that some school admin demands a child bow before authority, and that kid doesn't stand up and demand to know WHY they should do so...

A part of humanity dies.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Tuesday, November 29, 2011 3:04 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
No, he didn't "actually" apologize. He blamed his staffers, as politicians usually do

True dat, but the words "...I apologize" did escape his lips, which is as close as we get to an apology from a politician. So, I accept his apology for the incompetence of his staffers.

Quote:

"My staff overreacted to this tweet, and for that I apologize," the governor said.


-----
Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth. -- Lucy Parsons (1853-1942, labor activist and anarcho-communist)

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Tuesday, November 29, 2011 3:07 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by canttakesky:
Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
No, he didn't "actually" apologize. He blamed his staffers, as politicians usually do

True dat, but the words "...I apologize" did escape his lips, which is as close as we get to an apology from a politician. So, I accept his apology for the incompetence of his staffers.

Quote:

"My staff overreacted to this tweet, and for that I apologize," the governor said.


-----
Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth. -- Lucy Parsons (1853-1942, labor activist and anarcho-communist)




Indeed. Emma struck a blow for freedom; she stood up, and he backed down. I'll take that, and it exposes him and his staff for what they are, and the people of Kansas might finally see the truth of it.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Tuesday, November 29, 2011 9:27 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


If I were the principal I would have just said something like "just letting you know that tweets can be picked up by other people, what you choose to tweet about is up to you, but just know that other people can find it, your choices are up to you." I see no reason for her to be repremanded too much for it, she was talking to her friend, it was harmless, it wasn't anyone's business, it wasn't like she was threatening anyone.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Wednesday, November 30, 2011 6:38 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I think I'm more concerned about his staffers "big brothering" people's tweets, if anything. AND their ability to do so.



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Wednesday, November 30, 2011 9:09 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Niki: Indeed.

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Wednesday, November 30, 2011 9:26 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Most Politicians these days have at least one staffer doing social media monitoring, the more decent of em do so to keep their finger on the pulse of what their constituents want from them in order to remain in power, and the nastier ones actively manipulate it besides.

Because we SCARE them - IMHO, that's a good thing!



Hehehehe.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Wednesday, November 30, 2011 1:26 PM

DREAMTROVE


Oh no, a teen tweeted. It must be news.

It's probably more than CNN has done recently.


That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Wednesday, November 30, 2011 2:09 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:

Oh no, a teen tweeted. It must be news.

It's probably more than CNN has done recently.





Well, that's just it, DT - it was a nothingburger until Gov. Shitstain's staff blew it up by trying to squelch free speech.

Remember what lit off the Arab Spring? A kid got ticketed for selling food from a cart in Tunisia without a license. That was Ground Zero - one tiny action. Goes to show you never know what's going to set it off.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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