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REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
Movement to end corporate personhood
Sunday, December 4, 2011 7:42 AM
CANTTAKESKY
Sunday, December 4, 2011 9:34 AM
NIKI2
Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...
Sunday, December 4, 2011 9:36 AM
ANTHONYT
Freedom is Important because People are Important
Sunday, December 4, 2011 9:42 AM
Quote:We, the People of the United States of America, reject the U.S. Supreme Court's ruling in Citizens United, and move to amend our Constitution to firmly establish that money is not speech, and that human beings, not corporations, are persons entitled to constitutional rights.
Quote:January 20, 2012: Move to Amend Occupies the Courts! Inspired by our friends at Occupy Wall Street, and Dr. Cornel West, Move To Amend is planning bold action to mark the second anniversary of the infamous Citizens United v. FEC decision! Occupy the Courts will be a one day occupation of Federal courthouses across the country, including the U.S. Supreme Court in Washington, D.C., on Friday January 20, 2012. Move to Amend volunteers across the USA will lead the charge on the judiciary which created — and continues to expand — corporate personhood rights. Americans across the country are on the march, and they are marching OUR way. They carry signs that say, “Corporations are NOT people! Money is NOT Speech!” And they are chanting those truths at the top of their lungs! The time has come to make these truths evident to the courts. Join us Friday, January 20, 2012 at a Federal Court building near you! http://movetoamend.org/ feel like getting involved? Actually, several of their signs are ones I made up: "If corporations are people, I want to see their birth certificates" "I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one" "Money is not speech, corporations are not people" and one of my huskies wears one when I take them to demonstrations: "If corporations are people, so am I!" There are numerous groups which were inspired by, have joined or work in coalition with OWS. This is just one of them. Sorry I didn't think to mention it before; there are so many groups joining us, it would be a lengthy post. MoveToAmend is one of their groups; other states are doing the same: http://movetoamend.org/news/vermonts-push-end-corporate-personhood , http://movetoamend.org/events/stuart-fl-move-amend-florida-tour , the Sierra Club has a group http://missouri.sierraclub.org/thb/newsletter/2011/11/move_to_amend.html and others like The Working Families Party, Make the Road New York, the Coalition for the Homeless, the Alliance for Quality Education, Community Voices Heard, United New York, Chinatown Tenants Union and Strong Economy For All, TimesUp!, Campaign for the Future of Higher Education, and others. Lots of community groups, college groups, and of course those evil socialists, unions and MoveOn.
Sunday, December 4, 2011 10:01 AM
DREAMTROVE
Sunday, December 4, 2011 10:39 AM
Quote:The raised fist (also known as the clenched fist) is a symbol of solidarity and support. It is also used as a salute to express unity, strength, defiance, or resistance. The salute dates back to ancient Assyria as a symbol of resistance in the face of violence. Assyrian depictions of the goddess Ishtar show her raising a clenched fist.[3] A raised fist was used as a logo by the Industrial Workers of the World[4] in 1917. The graphic symbol was popularized in 1948 by Taller de Gráfica Popular, a print shop in Mexico that used art to advance revolutionary social causes.[5] The symbol has been picked up and incorporated around the world by various groups fighting oppression. The raised fist salute consists of raising one arm in the air with a clenched fist. Different movements sometimes use different terms to describe the raised fist salute. During the Spanish Civil War, it was sometimes known as the anti-fascist salute. The traditional version of the salute, originally a symbol of the broader workers' movement, became associated with the parties of the Comintern during the 1920s and 1930s.
Quote:This fist, or versions of it, were adopted by "the movement," appearing in numerous posters and flyers for student, antiwar, women's, and other political activities within the United States. Other minor variants of these appeared in slightly different treatments around the U.S. A similar version, though probably evolved from different iconographic ancestry, appeared in the groundbreaking prints made by the Atelier Populaire Paris 1968 poster workshop. Its persistence as a movement icon is evident by its occasional reappearance, as in a 2000 Women Take Back the Night flyer, the 2004 logo for a chapter of Earth First! [9], and the CD cover for progressive music nonprofit organization Axis of Justice. Yet the militant fist continues to be coopted, even as a tool for capitalism [16] and right-wing and conservative groups [17]. The other side uses this potent image for labor film festivals [18] environmental activism [19], and the labor resistance in Wisconsin [20, 21]. The fist has become universal, context is now crucial to understanding its meaning. The Occupy Wall Street movement of 2011 that spread throughout the US proved fertile ground for more street graphics - some new [22][23], some recycling the iconic "hand" of Frank Cieciorka (Stop the Draft Week, for event 10/16/1967, designed by Frank Cieciorka). http://www.docspopuli.org/articles/Fist.html interpretation of the fist is something to which you are entitled; I respectfully suggest that your interpretation is a personal one reflective of your own family experience. I also disagree with your portrayal of the movement as anti-14th Amendment. We're dealing with reality; reality is why the decision was made to consider corporations as persons (which is an idiotic concept on its face), and the reality of the intent is what we are fighting. Neither has any relevance to the 14th Amendment, in my opinion. I do, however, freely agree that any revolution carries the inherent danger that what it takes down may not be worse than what comes after. That is the danger of all revolution. But that we should never attempt to change things because of that isn't something I accept.
Sunday, December 4, 2011 11:47 AM
FREMDFIRMA
Sunday, December 4, 2011 12:20 PM
Sunday, December 4, 2011 2:09 PM
Quote:Originally posted by dreamtrove: I support corporate personhood. ....So, this anti-14th a movement worries me.
Sunday, December 4, 2011 2:40 PM
Sunday, December 4, 2011 2:46 PM
Sunday, December 4, 2011 2:50 PM
M52NICKERSON
DALEK!
Quote:Originally posted by dreamtrove: But if you remove the citizenship from them, then the govt. can take them over,
Sunday, December 4, 2011 2:54 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Fremdfirma: You didn't know, and yet were present for multiple discussions in which the topic came up, often in detail - such as the thread about some of the OWS posters/flyers ?
Quote: On a lighter note - so, Corporate Personhood and all, does that make what happened to WWASPS effectively an "Assassination" ? Cause I am so OK with that it's unreal.
Sunday, December 4, 2011 3:00 PM
Quote:Originally posted by M52NICKERSON: Quote:Originally posted by dreamtrove: But if you remove the citizenship from them, then the govt. can take them over, Person-hood does not prevent that. I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
Sunday, December 4, 2011 4:59 PM
Sunday, December 4, 2011 5:45 PM
Sunday, December 4, 2011 6:19 PM
Sunday, December 4, 2011 6:34 PM
SIGNYM
I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.
Quote:is a memo attached to a decision
Quote:Whacking blindly at corporations without considering the ancillary effects of law will result in innocent bystanders getting hurt.
Sunday, December 4, 2011 7:19 PM
KWICKO
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)
Sunday, December 4, 2011 7:20 PM
Quote:Originally posted by dreamtrove: How does corporate personhood prevent them from going to jail? I'm a person an I can go to jail.
Quote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_personality ...the court reporter's comments included a statement the Chief Justice made before oral arguments began, telling the attorneys during pre-trial that "the court does not wish to hear argument on the question whether the provision in the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution, which forbids a State to deny any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws, applies to these corporations. We are all of the opinion that it does." Later opinions misinterpreted these pre-argument comments as part of the legal decision.
Monday, December 5, 2011 3:46 AM
Quote:Sig: It was never "decided" by a judge as such
Quote:CTS: How do you put a corporation in jail? It doesn't fit inside a cell, yanno?
Quote: Look at this. A person who commits atrocities overseas can be tried at home.
Quote: The 14th Amendment was written for real, living persons. It was never meant to be applied to artificial legal constructs.
Monday, December 5, 2011 5:16 AM
BYTEMITE
Quote:The thing is, without the 14th, and subsequent decision on corporate citizenship, the us govt. would be able to take over corporations and we would end up with our own ig farben. All the decision does is grant corporations the consitutional rights we have, the right to free speech, without which, the govt. could dictate to the media as britain does, so on and so forth.
Monday, December 5, 2011 5:43 AM
GEEZER
Keep the Shiny side up
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: Just FYI:Quote:We, the People of the United States of America, reject the U.S. Supreme Court's ruling in Citizens United, and move to amend our Constitution to firmly establish that money is not speech, and that human beings, not corporations, are persons entitled to constitutional rights.Their main statement.
Monday, December 5, 2011 5:51 AM
Monday, December 5, 2011 5:58 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Bytemite: Jes' Sayin'. If they already have free speech and freedom of assembly, why does their organization also need further special protections? Doesn't that give their organization an unfair advantage over less organized and individual voices? Like say in ability to pool money, donate, or otherwise drown out individual voices?
Monday, December 5, 2011 6:17 AM
Quote:ETA5: The corporation actually can't buy the candidates directly, so they resort to buying the people and getting them to buy the politicians, it's a tricky little money bounce. This is a separate issue I think, and one that I would cover in "separation of corporation and state."
Monday, December 5, 2011 6:40 AM
Quote:Show me one single corporation that was treated the way an individual would be for the same crime. BP killed more people than Michael Jackson's doctor, yet who's the one in jail? Enron fucked more people than Bernie Madoff, and who got the harsher sentence?
Monday, December 5, 2011 7:22 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Bytemite: Making government unable to issue a license? Sign me up.
Monday, December 5, 2011 7:57 AM
Monday, December 5, 2011 8:17 AM
Monday, December 5, 2011 8:40 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Geezer: Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: Just FYI:Quote:We, the People of the United States of America, reject the U.S. Supreme Court's ruling in Citizens United, and move to amend our Constitution to firmly establish that money is not speech, and that human beings, not corporations, are persons entitled to constitutional rights.Their main statement. I'd have no problem with this if they included unions and the ultra-rich of all denominations in the "Money is not speech" part. Limit what BofA and the Teamsters and the Koch brothers and Soros and Pickens and Bloomberg can contribute. And not just directly to political parties, but to PACs and front organizations like the Tea Party or MoveOn. "Keep the Shiny side up"
Monday, December 5, 2011 1:34 PM
Quote: A corporation can never be held accountable.
Quote:Anthony If corporations are people, then isn't the practice of corporations owning corporations an act of slavery?
Monday, December 5, 2011 7:37 PM
RIONAEIRE
Beir bua agus beannacht
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