Michael and His Dog Cisco were in their Yard by Oonjerah

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Michael and His Dog Cisco were in their Yard

POSTED BY: OONJERAH
UPDATED: Monday, April 23, 2012 11:12
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 2334
PAGE 1 of 1

Saturday, April 21, 2012 3:32 PM

Probe vowed in Austin police shooting of pet dog =>
http://www.theeagle.com/texas/Probe-vowed-in-Austin-police-shooting-of
-pet-dog--7108308

The fatal shooting of a family dog by an Austin police officer arriving at the
wrong address has department officials reviewing their policies governing deadly
force against animals.

Cisco, a blue heeler owned by Michael Paxton, was shot Saturday by an officer
responding to a domestic disturbance call. Officer Thomas Griffin arrived at the
wrong address by mistake and says he shot the dog after it charged at him, but
Paxton denies that his dog charged at the officer.

Assistant Police Chief David Carter says the department has received a flood of
angry emails and telephone calls, some from abroad, and promises that "every
aspect of the incident" is being reviewed.

If I had a dog and this same thing happened at my house, I'd be terrified.
I would think the cop had lost it and was going to shoot me, too.
Lucky I have cats who run away and do not bark.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, April 21, 2012 5:50 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Radley Balko, aka The Agitator, has a whole section on this phenom, which we've dubbed Puppycide.
Not only are Police really arbitrary about it, a lot of times they'll kill the dog as an act of proxy malice against the owner, in much the same fashion they use Tasers as street-justice, and when they started really doing this on a larger scale I pointed out sooner or later some dog owner was gonna snap and blow one of them away for it.

Not long after that....
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2025812/Police-officer-Robert-
Lasso-shot-dead-pointing-stun-gun-mans-dogs.html

Mind you, as we learned in the "Don't Tase me Bro" thread, from even a moderate distance it's damn hard to tell the difference between many models of Taser and a Glock - guy sees cops pointing weapon at his dogs, hears the order to shoot his dogs, and lets them have it...
Something which, I think, should this out of control behavior on behalf of the Police continue, and continue to escalate, will become more common simply by way of statistical averages.

Depending on the situation, I damn well MIGHT shoot someone offering threat to my cats, and if I am loading less-lethal (rubber ball) rounds, which is nowadays mostly the case, I damn well WILL blast them off the doorstep, sure.

-Frem

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, April 22, 2012 3:20 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

It's getting a ton of attention here in Austin. Police Chief Art Acevedo has personally apologized to Michael Paxton, but so far I don't believe the officer has (which he probably can't because it could be construed as an admission of guilt or liability in the sure-to-be-upcoming lawsuit).

Big active community here:

http://www.facebook.com/JusticeForCisco

Cops might need more training regarding dogs, territoriality, and behavior. I had a Lab that would go off on someone (barking, snarling, advancing on them) if they pointed a gun at my wife or me, and my Dobermann would put itself between me and any stranger who acted the least bit threatening, and would face the stranger with teeth shown. Neither would lunge or bite UNLESS the other person aggressed first. And the weird thing is, I never taught them any of this; they just did it. Such behavior would get them shot by police, I'm sure, for the act of trying to protect me from bad people.

My current dog barks, and she'll charge the fence a bit, but she then tends to hide behind me. She was never the alpha, and always had another dog to protect her, so she now relies on my for that duty.

When you are in someone else's yard or home, you are on their dog's turf. It's programmed to protect that turf and to protect its "pack", and the dog is failing as a watchdog to some degree if it DOESN'T to so. Dogs show aggressiveness, but rarely attack unprovoked.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, April 22, 2012 3:30 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Seems like the SOP for cops these days in dealing with pretty much any dog barking at them is to simply shoot them, and then let the owners try to sue the city.

" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, April 22, 2012 5:05 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Sick, sick, sick. I can't imagine how devastated (and INCENSED to the point of physicality) I'd be if that happened to me. I'm not surprised people are up in arms, considering how many feel about pets, and I think the officer should be punished, in some way (tho' I couldn't say what). It's totally irresponsible to just shoot the dog, there are myriad other ways to deal with a territorial dog, and training should have taught the officer those things; not to mentin he's not very good at his job, if he can't even get the right address when responding to a call!

Makes me sick inside; I definitely hope they sue, and sue successfully. Tho' I doubt the mentality is as you say, Raptor; cities are pretty damned "unthrlled" at the possibility of paying out money...sloppy training, quite possible in my opinion, but outright acceptance of actions such as these by police, I seriously doubt.

I don't even like to THINK what the owner is going through...

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, April 22, 2012 6:26 AM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Seems like the SOP for cops these days in dealing with pretty much any dog barking at them is to simply shoot them, and then let the owners try to sue the city.

And it will likely remain SOP until it becomes more expensive to the city to have cops shooting dogs than it does to train them to NOT shoot dogs.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, April 22, 2012 7:05 AM

OLDENGLANDDRY

I've always found it odd how people seem to be more willing to get "up in arms" about pets than they are about other people.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, April 22, 2012 7:16 AM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by oldenglanddry:
I've always found it odd how people seem to be more willing to get "up in arms" about pets than they are about other people.

I'm not sure that's so. People tend to get sued when they shoot unarmed kids, too, and people get up in arms about that now and again.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, April 22, 2012 8:37 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
sloppy training

Ever wonder why cops do the dogpile even on skinny girls?
Yeah, sloppy or NO training.
Most cops I've known I could take in a fight, outdrive & probably out shoot (that last one is an assumption).
If these guys will dogpile on a girl, of COURSE they'll taze out of anger or shoot a dog they don't like.

Chrisisall, wearing a frilly Mal thing on his head, and ready to shoot unarmed, full-body armoured Operatives

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, April 22, 2012 8:47 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Cops might need more training regarding dogs, territoriality, and behavior. I had a Lab that would go off on someone (barking, snarling, advancing on them) if they pointed a gun at my wife or me, and my Dobermann would put itself between me and any stranger who acted the least bit threatening, and would face the stranger with teeth shown. Neither would lunge or bite UNLESS the other person aggressed first.

That's one bit of training I make sure to get through the thick heads of my people - none of the residents dogs are actually aggressive, but they WILL offer threat displays if you are in their "bubble" or too close for their liking to their protectee, but none of em are gonna DO anything unless you make a move.
The lady in the next building over had a shep that actually WOULD snap at you, but pull up short on purpose, which'd freak a lot of people out, and she was mortified when he did it to me as we both rounded a corner at the same time, but I told her no worries, cause a dog can't specify the uniform like a human can, and honesty don't much care, you're in his bubble, then you very well oughta get the hell out, quicklike.
Me and said somewhat overprotective mutt reached a detente, and he really was good at his job, so it saddened me to hear that he recently passed from kidney failure...
The lady in question jokingly pointed out that now it's my job - so I barked at her and grinned.

ETA: Chris, that's become so common there's even a specific word for it now: Thugscrum.
And I don't think it's piss-poor training so much as attitude, cause if it were NOT premeditated, why do they have a couple on "crowd control" blocking the view or harrassing anyone who might have a camera, while the bastards delivering the beatdown keep yelling "Stop Resisting!" for forms sake and legal cover ?
No, that's not a lack of training, that's the WRONG training, is what it is.
Of course, that presumes the job is what we've been told it is, and not something... else.

-Frem

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, April 22, 2012 10:40 AM

OONJERAH

They say the person who called 911 gave the wrong address.

. . . . .The worst and most frequent consequence of paranoia is that it's self-fulfilling.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, April 22, 2012 12:34 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:

No, that's not a lack of training, that's the WRONG training, is what it is.

Hmmmmm... yeah, you're right.

Chrisisall, wearing a frilly Mal thing on his head, and ready to shoot unarmed, full-body armoured Operatives

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, April 22, 2012 1:25 PM

OONJERAH

Detailed Discussion of Police Shooting Pets by Pamela L. Roudebush
Animal Legal and Historical Center, Michigan State University College of Law
Publish Date: 2002
http://www.animallaw.info/articles/dduspoliceshootingpets.htm

Under "cops shoot dog," Google gives 1,640,000 hits.

Jan 2012, Cop Shoots Dog ‘in Cold Blood’ Responding to 9-1-1 Call At Wrong Address =>
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/cop-shoots-dog-in-cold-blood-respondin
g-to-9-1-1-call-at-wrong-address/

Feb 2012, Cop Shoots Dog: Three Stories to Wreck An Animal Lover's Day =>
http://reason.com/blog/2012/02/28/cop-shoots-dog-three-stories-to-wrec
k-an

Dec 2010, Cop shoots, kills family dog =>
http://www.ajc.com/news/clayton/cop-shoots-kills-family-782080.html

June 2010 upload:

===================================================================

Millions of times per year, cops get calls which take them to homes in the suburbs.
I choose suburbs, 'cause I figure at least 50% of people living there have dogs.
If it was a 911 call, it's assumed to be an emergency. If a domestic quarrel was
reported, or if they are calling on a repeat offender, cops may come in with guns
drawn.

I am thinking, with the sheer numbers of cop to dog encounters that these calls
generate, perhaps it's a miracle that more dogs are not shot. Or they are not shot,
because cops are people, too: most of them own and love dogs.

All things considered, if one wants to insure their dog against being shot by a cop
while the dog is in one's own yard, I wonder what the premiums would be.

[Officer Steve White] explained ... officers are called into three general situations
in which they encounter dogs:

1. High Risk Warrant Service: This is a situation where the police are going to execute
a warrant against people for which an arrest warrant has been issued. These operations
are often dangerous but they’re highly planned. If officers think they might encounter
dogs, they plan accordingly and can involve Animal Care and Control if available.

2. Standard Police Call: This is a situation where someone calls the police for one reason
or another like domestic violence, robbery, etc. In these cases, officers often don’t know
until they show up whether there will be dogs on the premises.

3. Loose Dog or other Animal Nuisance Call.

Do the cops get training for dog encounters?
Mainly ... How can dog owners prevent such encounters?

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, April 22, 2012 6:57 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Oonjerah:
These operations
are often dangerous but they’re highly planned. If officers think they might encounter
dogs, they plan accordingly and can involve Animal Care and Control if available.

Bullshit. It's the wild west. Always has been. The impotent bullies from High School with guns.

Chrisisall, wearing a frilly Mal thing on his head, and ready to shoot unarmed, full-body armoured Operatives

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, April 23, 2012 2:09 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Well, if the officer gets fired he can probably get a job in Prince George county, Md.

Quote:
The Berwyn Heights mayor's residence drug raid was a controversial action taken by the Prince George's County, Maryland, Sheriff's Office and Police Department at the home of Berwyn Heights mayor Cheye Calvo on July 29, 2008. The raid was the culmination of an investigation that began in Arizona, where a package containing 32 pounds of marijuana was intercepted in a Fed Ex warehouse, addressed to the mayor's residence. In spite of intercepting the package in transit, the police allowed the package to be delivered, and once the package arrived at the house, a SWAT team raided and took the mayor and his mother-in-law into custody, killing his two dogs in the process.

The event gained national and international media attention. While the Calvos were cleared of wrongdoing, the police were accused by the Calvos and civil rights groups of lacking a proper search warrant, excessive force, and failure to conduct a proper background investigation of the home being raided. Despite the criticisms, no action has been taken against the officers or their respective police departments. In August 2010, Sheriff Jackson stated, “we'd do it again. Tonight.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheye_Calvo

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, April 23, 2012 3:58 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
I've always found it odd how people seem to be more willing to get "up in arms" about pets than they are about other people.

I disagree. Wholeheartedly. When people are killed by cops for wrong reasons, when it gets the news people get up in arms. We had a homeless guy, laying on the ground at a BART station here who was shot by a cop and it caused BIG problems which went on for months. Remember Rodney King? There are thousands of such incidents all the time and when people find out about them, they raise hell. There are just so MANY, and it takes a slow news day (which this might well have been) for any of this stuff to make the news.

I hear your comment so often from so many people, but it's not true. There are many people out there trying to help the poor, the homeless, etc., it's just an on-going fight we don't hear a lot about. And there are many out there working at shelters, volunteering at animal rehab places, etc., too. It's not one or the other, it's both.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, April 23, 2012 3:59 AM

CAVETROLL

Expect a lot more cop shoots dog stories from my area. Wilmington, DE put a breed specific legislation into effect 10 years ago. They targeted pit bulls. The dogs living in the city needed a $10,000 bond, had to be in a closed top kennel or muzzled and on a leash under the control of a person over the age of 16. They also had to be spayed or neutered and there was no breeding of the banned dogs in the city. The local SPCA branch helped the city enforce the law. For ten years the SPCA has been full of pit bull dogs and their closely related breeds and mixes. Now the contract is coming to an end and the SPCA will not renew it. They are out of the animal control business and they have gone no-kill.

So the city is going to turn the enforcement of the ban over to the police. Who are not trained for animal control. Who have no facilities for animal control. Who have no alternative but to destroy the dogs found in the city, in violation of the law.

Yeah, this is not going to end well. I'd bet it is going to end a few careers though.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, April 23, 2012 5:05 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Oh don't even get me STARTED on Prince Georges County, MD - I mean the Burdinsky case was bad enough, but when it comes to the mistreatment of dogs, PG County gets the double-whammy cause not only do they do shit like that, they abuse and mistreat their own K9 units, in addition to encouraging them to maul people without cause, and not only are they, and a lot of western maryland police forces, downright NOTORIOUS for it, PG County was under a Consent Decreee on that one for a substantial period of time.
http://ww2.gazette.net/stories/021507/prinnew191531_32333.shtml

I actually went rodeo with a couple of those infamous canines back in 1982 during the incident which set me against the Hellcamps in the first place, when they decided I belonged in one and I decided I didn't - injured one and retired the other, which was mostly to buy time to get my ass up a tree...

Thing is, the whole concept is that the dog won't bite you once you're down - and that is complete bullshit in many places, remember that local Imam up here the FBI murdered ?
The REASON he drew and fired on the dog in the first place is that the cops working with the FBI set that dog on him, which DID maul him - AFTER he had surrendered and put his hands in the air.

A dog is a living being, not a tool, has it's own mind and will - the notion of absolute control is bunk.
Plus, yanno, misusing dogs to creep around Fourth Amendment protections has also recently come into question as well, given they're in fact less accurate than flipping a coin, due to "clever hans effect" and often being trained on the sly to fake a hit when the officer wants them to.

None of which is, I think, any kind of fair to the dog.

-Frem

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, April 23, 2012 11:12 AM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

Old England I agree with you, sometimes it feels like that in life.

But this wasn't okay and it was bad and the police obviously need more training about how dogs opperate if they're going to do stuff like this. A good dog will behave in a warning, and potentially threatening manner, if they perceive their territory and their person as being in danger, nothing new there. I think the police should pay a dogprice, kind of like a manprice but for pets, if they shoot a pet unnecessarily, maybe that would help detour them? The owner should get some compensation, even though that won't bring his dog back. :(

I assume you're my pal until you let me know otherwise.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

YOUR OPTIONS

SHARE THREAD

NEW POSTS TODAY

USER	POST DATE

USER

POST DATE