PSU culture of creepiness by CATPIRATE

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

PSU culture of creepiness

POSTED BY: CATPIRATE
UPDATED: Thursday, June 21, 2012 11:29
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Monday, June 18, 2012 7:03 PM

Today I was driving around listening to 1100am out of Las Vegas up in Utah Snow Canyon area. Well I think the sport's jocks were right on. DC and The Sunshine man nailed it. They get called libs or neo cons. I think they have common sense. DC said there is a culture of creepiness with Penn State University. He was saying they have a cult attitude about Penn State.

It is not normal or acceptable for grown men to shower with little boys never mind teenagers. Now this was accepted as common practice on Penn State campus. Sandusky is predator. Dan Costas had a 30 minute interview. Which most was not aired yet he does not deny any sexual abuse but also admits that most boys he didn't touch. Ok an older married man with a position of prominence at PSU was trusted by the township. He took on roles of helping young boys through charities. The fanatics of Penn State were worried about the image of the school over the children.

You have coaches who see the sexual attacks and pass the buck. Then Joe Pa which I never bought into Paterno's god image could have had him arrested on the spot. This is the guy who has a hot line to the governor. I mean he could call any police to close roads to his house to keep reporters out. But he could not call the cops on Sandusky.

The culture of Penn State is not that you played football at PSU but you played for Joe Pa. I hope Sandusky joins Joe Pa's place in the afterlife soon. What a bunch of scumbags. Small town values sound more like a cult institution.

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Monday, June 18, 2012 7:48 PM

WISHIMAY

Quote:
Originally posted by CATPIRATE:
Small town values sound more like a cult institution.

Nail on the head...

I told the librarian the other day during a discussion I have no intention of ever joining another church, as I have had not good experiences with that in the past...Whoops. They were all soo nice to me before. Now I get dirty looks FROM ALL OF THEM and caught them looking my way and whispering today...
Reminds me why being a loner ain't such a bad thing...at least I'm not subject to the rules of GroupThink

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Tuesday, June 19, 2012 1:32 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Is 'Dan' Costas any relation to Bob ?

And I dunno about 'small town' values, but the cult of college football is alive and well across the parts of the country. And that's what this is about, to the penn state fans. So enamored with the legend of JoePa, that fans will do, say anything to defend his reputation. Which, as they see it, is defending penn state, and all its glory.

" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Tuesday, June 19, 2012 3:47 AM

BYTEMITE

Listening to any interview with Sandusky is almost painful, the way the guy dances around the point trying to avoid admitting anything but damning himself anyway with where his explanations and excuses go. :/

He did it, and yeah, he has trouble even DENYING it. All he knows is that he's in a shitstorm of trouble, but I get the feeling he doesn't fully even understand that what he did was abuse. He still thinks on some bizarre crazy level that he was HELPING all these kids and that what he did to them was an expression of his benevolence and love or something.

I'm just waiting for word though that some of the coaches at the U of U or BYU did this kinda crap too. Pedophiles often are part of rings of support that cover up their activities. The fact that this Sandusky guy had such a good friend coaching at BYU who also is trying to defend Sandusky is an alarm bell. The roots of this tree appear to be rotten.

Snow Canyon Utah is beautiful. Hope you had a good drive.

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Tuesday, June 19, 2012 12:41 PM

PENGUIN

Jerry Sandusky, the former assistant coach at Penn State accused of sexually abusing 10 boys, regularly took boys into locker-room showers reserved for coaches, according to two longtime colleagues who testified on Sandusky’s behalf Monday.

“If Jerry would bring someone in from Second Mile, it was not uncommon it would happen,” said Booker T. Brooks, one of the former coaches, referring to the charity for boys that Sandusky founded.

Both men said that it was routine for boys to shower in the coaching staff locker room at the university after working out, though both said they never saw any inappropriate behavior involving Sandusky.

I read that and was dumbfounded! This is a defense witness admitting Sandusky showered regularly with little boys.

NO, NO, and HELL NO!

Hang him.

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Tuesday, June 19, 2012 1:46 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by CATPIRATE:
he does not deny any sexual abuse but also admits that most boys he didn't touch.

That's not much of a defense-- "I didn't rape EVERY little kid I knew."

ALL A (kids) ARE NOT B (rape victims), is not equal to

NO A (kids) ARE B (rape victims).

ANY A (kids) ARE B (rape victims) means there was a crime.

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Tuesday, June 19, 2012 3:02 PM

HKCAVALIER

It's Johnnie Cochran's method. Establish MERE doubt about the specific charges and then convince the jury that ANY doubt constitutes REASONABLE doubt. "If it doesn't fit, you must aquit!" Say yes to every dang thing the defense aledges EXCEPT the sexual abuse. Yes to alone time. Yes to showers. Yes to wrestling. Yes to no end of weirdness. And then put up all kinda witnesses who say, "I saw 'X, Y and Z' but I didn't see any (make yucky face) mo-les-ta-tion going on, your honor..."

Then yell at the jury: "This evidence is all circumstantial!"

"Wull gee," says juror #1 during deliberations, "Mr. Sandusky sure seems guilty, but the prosecution hasn't proven that he did anything, well, ahem, untoward beyond a reasonable (aka, any and all) doubt. I cannot in good conscience find this defendant guilty under the law." And so it goes.

I don't think it will work for Sandusky the way it did for O.J. though.

It's a cryin' shame old, rich, white guys can't play the race card!

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Wednesday, June 20, 2012 6:58 AM

BYTEMITE

? Why are people still so up in arms about the OJ trial? He was a domestic abuser and the cops were racist. A woman died, and it's a tragedy for her family, but I see no further threat from OJ provided he doesn't get married again, which I don't imagine any right thinking person would agree to that.

Would society somehow have it's revenge if OJ went to prison? Why is conviction and prison so important? Our society and system of justice makes very little practical sense, and ultimately seems to be a smokescreen for forced labour.

However, prison may be justified here as I think Sandusky remains a threat to children. I'm always troubled by the implications of prison, but I can understand the desire here to keep him away from any more children.

I suspect that if he's convicted he'll be dead before he ever reaches prison. I'm not sure that would be a huge loss to society, and I am sad that there exists such people in the world that even I can't feel sorry for.

This does have me thinking about humane alternatives though.

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Wednesday, June 20, 2012 8:49 AM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
? Why are people still so up in arms about the OJ trial? He was a domestic abuser and the cops were racist. A woman died, and it's a tragedy for her family, but I see no further threat from OJ provided he doesn't get married again, which I don't imagine any right thinking person would agree to that.

Would society somehow have it's revenge if OJ went to prison? Why is conviction and prison so important? Our society and system of justice makes very little practical sense, and ultimately seems to be a smokescreen for forced labour.

However, prison may be justified here as I think Sandusky remains a threat to children. I'm always troubled by the implications of prison, but I can understand the desire here to keep him away from any more children.

Well said!

As far as humane alternatives... seems to me we'd need a whole different system, with different values. Because in a culture where this many people cover up for and defend a child predator because of football* (? unless there's something else I'm missing?), I don't see hope for a humane alternative that doesn't put kids at risk. I mean, my only alternative to prison for abusers like this would be complete shunning, but I don't see how that could happen now, even if he was tattooed with "child rapist" or the like on his face (and even that's not humane, but like you said, can't really feel sorry for the guy).

*And the system is more interested in covering their own asses than protecting victims.

if the grass is greener on the other side, it's only because I'm not attending mine

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Wednesday, June 20, 2012 10:13 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

I go back and forth between he's scum, put him away forever, do something BAD to him, and wanting to know just what makes his mind, THEIR minds, work like that. Their desire to "be" with kids seems to be so strong that they will burn almost anything down socially to satisfy it; lie, steal, abuse, cross over so many boundaries that most of us wouldn't come close to - why?? How did their wiring get like that? And if we could find out what would we do with that information?
Punishing him, any sex offenders, is after the fact, more for satisfying revenge and hoping to help deter, but it does little to stop it from happening elsewhere (not saying he shouldn't be punished, just saying). The day he goes to jail kids will still be getting abused all over - seems so ineffective.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Wednesday, June 20, 2012 10:14 AM

BYTEMITE

This is very true, about a different system and different values.

Ideally you'd want this kind of thing to NEVER happen. The only way I can think of would require extensive psychological knowledge about the motivations of child predators, an ability to detect inclinations in the years where it might arise (formative years? young adults? middle age? why?), encouragement for these people to seek out help for their taboo inclinations, and psychiatric techniques to redirect those motivations to more socially acceptable activity.

That's all probably more effort than anyone wants to put into understanding and helping people who'd exploit kids like this though. Plus it would have to be voluntary, which would of course have its own inefficiency and wouldn't pick up everyone with the tendencies.

I can't determine whether it's a psychological problem on the part of the predator. So the proposed treatment idea may not even be effective.

I also had have to consider whether such treatment would be ethical and justifiable. After looking at examples from Ancient Greece where this practice was socially acceptable, I still found indications that it is psychologically traumatizing for the victims despite cultural mores, and I can conclude that this is generally and universally criminal regardless of culture, and generally indefensible behaviour. It is destructive and also possibly self-destructive.

This behaviour shouldn't be tolerated, and PSU fans and coaches defending this person on the basis of their football program are misguided at best and enablers at worst.

Other humane treatment ideas: prisons that are only for child predators to prevent reprisals from other convicts?

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Wednesday, June 20, 2012 11:42 AM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Other humane treatment ideas: prisons that are only for child predators to prevent reprisals from other convicts?

Could work, if they were put away for life. Otherwise I'd worry about them forming one giant support system and improving their ability to prey on kids once they got out.

if the grass is greener on the other side, it's only because I'm not attending mine

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Wednesday, June 20, 2012 11:48 AM

BYTEMITE

Quote:
Could work, if they were put away for life.

Well yeah. I thought the point was making sure they never have contact with another kid again, but at the same time, not having it be an instant death sentence.

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Wednesday, June 20, 2012 12:19 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Penguin:

Both men said that it was routine for boys to shower in the coaching staff locker room at the university after working out , though both said they never saw any inappropriate behavior involving Sandusky.

Hang him.

THIS IS PENN STATE !!

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Wednesday, June 20, 2012 1:00 PM

HKCAVALIER

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
? Why are people still so up in arms about the OJ trial? He was a domestic abuser and the cops were racist. A woman died, and it's a tragedy for her family, but I see no further threat from OJ provided he doesn't get married again, which I don't imagine any right thinking person would agree to that.

Would society somehow have it's revenge if OJ went to prison? Why is conviction and prison so important? Our society and system of justice makes very little practical sense, and ultimately seems to be a smokescreen for forced labour.

Um. Byte.

O.J. is in jail right now, serving a 33 year sentence for armed robbery and kidnapping (the details of the case show a man who clearly thought he was above the law and could do just as he pleased). And he did get involved with a woman after the trial whom he physically abused and threatened to kill by shooting. Luckily, she left him first. While he was out of jail he was a serious threat, precisely because he'd literally gotten away with murder (he did however pay out over 33 million dollars in the civil trial that followed). He thought he was invincible. An extremely dangerous man.

And a woman didn't just die (why minimize it?), he shot his wife to death and stabbed her 26 year old friend to death sometime later, in all likelihood because he was a witness after the fact. We're lucky that these are the only two human beings he removed from the planet. I don't bear any personal grudge against the man, but to say that he's not dangerous, even with the information available to you from the mainstream media, seems, I don't know, naive? Why the heck would Bytemite of all people trust O.J. Simpson not to bother anyone again?

And Byte,

The problem is not that folk don't know what motivates pedophiles, we know all kinds of things about what goes on in their heads. It's what goes on in everybody else's heads that makes it possible for this shit to go on and on and on. It's almost comical how blatant this Sandusky guy was, how MANY people had more than enough information to connect the dots and simply chose not to. Because, as our mutual friend reminds us, children are not people. Because protecting the reputation of a revered old man is more important than the ruined lives of countless children. That's the problem. They say it takes a village to raise a child and, by the same token, it takes a village to protect a guy like Sandusky. We're simply too in love with authority in this world at the present. And we're still too "freaked out" by the reality of child sexual abuse to deal with it rationally.

Yes, it's crucial that there be a safe place for perpetrators like Sandusky to seek help. We desperately need to demystify pedophilia. Some perpetrators do seek help even with the current kill-the-monster paradigm in place. Some do improve. Very few. Many take their own lives once they fully realize what they've done.

Just as the world is still too brutal for Anarchy to take hold, the world is still too complicit with child abuse to do anything meaningful to prevent it.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Wednesday, June 20, 2012 1:19 PM

BYTEMITE

Quote:
I don't know, naive? Why the heck would Bytemite of all people trust O.J. Simpson not to bother anyone again?

Well, okay, I confess I don't follow celebrities like at all so I had no idea that he'd done anything since then. Shot my mouth off.

But... Why wouldn't I? Just because I'm a pessimist and a cynic and completely paranoid doesn't mean I hate and distrust everyone. I actually try to make a special effort to overcome those limitations so I can see people as fundamentally decent and capable of benevolent cooperation.

Just don't hug me or get sentimental or mention love or happiness or the joy of living around me because that tends to either depress me or enrage me.

Quote:
The problem is not that folk don't know what motivates pedophiles, we know all kinds of things about what goes on in their heads

I don't know. There are ideas, like that it's a dominance power thing and these are people who have somehow been repressed and is an assertion thing. Or maybe they can't control their urges. Or maybe they're acting out previous abuse. Or maybe they're tweaked in the head and they project the innocence of the child onto their own actions towards the child. Or maybe they see that innocence as easy pickings. Or maybe they have anger issues. Or maybe they have unresolved childhood issues or an inability to let go/ aging up crisis problem.

But things we don't know, is there a chemical basis, neurons, brain structure? Predilection to tendencies? Can it be treated?

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Wednesday, June 20, 2012 2:59 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Just don't hug me or get sentimental or mention love or happiness or the joy of living around me because that tends to either depress me or enrage me.

Hello,

I guess someone must have tried to do these things...

Which means...

Someone felt love and happiness and joy living around you, and tried to give you a hug.

Which may be some kind of evidence that being around you could be a much more positive experience than you realize.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Wednesday, June 20, 2012 5:34 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

Its a physicality malfunction, nothing more I reckon, their nethers, do to early experiences or natural wiring errors, or sometimes both, react to kids. I doubt that they would have chosen to have rutted up nethers. The thing is that they are weak and give in to their nethers and end up doing one of the worst things anyone can do to another, and for that they should be punished very much and kept from doing it again to more kids. When that happens to a child a piece of them is taken away that can't be given back and it is one of the worst things in the world. This guy obviously hurt multiple kids and thus should be punished notably.

I have Kathy Bates on speed dial, mwa ha ha ha (in exaggeratedly evil voice)

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.

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Wednesday, June 20, 2012 6:18 PM

BYTEMITE

EDIT: that was weird...

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Wednesday, June 20, 2012 6:20 PM

BYTEMITE

I really don't know why I even talk about my anti-positivity reaction. Frustrating. Depresses me more.

Riona: Hmm, I don't know. I mean you're probably right in that there's no way people start out like this, something makes them this way. Some abnormal experience or desperation or fall from grace or initial experience. But I can think of no other explanation for their continued behaviour after their circumstances change beyond that something in their minds doesn't somehow change or deviate from the norm.

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Wednesday, June 20, 2012 7:03 PM

CATPIRATE

AU, I am not on a first name basis with Mr. Costas. Once again you are right sir. I have a cigar for you. Penn State Nittany Leonidases.

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Wednesday, June 20, 2012 7:17 PM

CATPIRATE

Bytemite,You might be right on the culture because Dave Coker from 1100am was saying the same thing. That there might be more than one coach that enjoys showers with the kids at the Happy Valley. People of position think they can crap on the small people in life. Such as single mom with kids. The predator knows how to pick the victims. Their is good people and people who get off on hurting people because they can.

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Wednesday, June 20, 2012 7:22 PM

CATPIRATE

Rionaeire, you have to have discipline on your urges. That is what the Bible tells us on the beast within. I just can not rap my head on a urge for little boys or girls. There is no help for animals they must be put down. Hopefully Sandusky dies in prison. His wife should be with him. But she said she didn't know. Yeh.

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Thursday, June 21, 2012 7:39 AM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

Cat, we live in a culture now though where people don't learn self discipline, its an instant gratification culture where people think they can get whatever they want whenever they want it, so self discipline is lacking.

I have Kathy Bates on speed dial, mwa ha ha ha (in exaggeratedly evil voice)

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.

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Thursday, June 21, 2012 8:06 AM

BYTEMITE

Pedophiles have existed for a long time. I don't think it's just because we're in a self-gratification culture. I think there's something wrong in their heads. And I think it'd be worth trying to find out if it's some kind of mental disorder or addiction that can be treated.

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Thursday, June 21, 2012 8:59 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Pedophiles have existed for a long time. I don't think it's just because we're in a self-gratification culture. I think there's something wrong in their heads. And I think it'd be worth trying to find out if it's some kind of mental disorder or addiction that can be treated.

Hello,

I agree with this. Pedophilia is more complex and severe than not being able to resist chocolate.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Thursday, June 21, 2012 9:51 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by CATPIRATE:
AU, I am not on a first name basis with Mr. Costas. Once again you are right sir. I have a cigar for you. Penn State Nittany Leonidases.

Gladly accept said cigar. Still have room in the humidor for a few more.

" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Thursday, June 21, 2012 11:18 AM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

True, we are by no means the only self tgratification culture that has existed, the Spartans were worse than us by far in the misusing children department.

I don't think I'd call it a mental disorder. I'd call it the worst physicality malfunction that exists coupled with a lack of understanding that, even though your nethers feel this way, you have absolutely no right to give in, no matter what, you need to find another option instead.

I have Kathy Bates on speed dial, mwa ha ha ha (in exaggeratedly evil voice)

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.

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Thursday, June 21, 2012 11:29 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
I don't think I'd call it a mental disorder. I'd call it the worst physicality malfunction

Hello,

I think where I disagree, Riona, is the notion that the 'nethers' somehow have their own feelings and considerations that are independent of the mind.

The 'nethers' feel 'this way' because the mind that is in control of them has something different about it. Something broken.

So, to me, it is essentially saying that someone should use their broken brain to resist the feelings of their broken brain.

Which leads to a problem, because their brain is broken.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

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