REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Class warfare's not like me, but this is interesting...

POSTED BY: KPO
UPDATED: Sunday, July 15, 2012 20:59
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VIEWED: 1503
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Friday, July 13, 2012 8:31 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


http://nymag.com/news/features/money-brain-2012-7/

An excerpt, talking about the psychologist's previous research:
Quote:

Earlier this year, Piff, who is 30, published a paper in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences that made him semi-famous. Titled “Higher Social Class Predicts Increased Unethical Behavior,” it showed through quizzes, online games, questionnaires, in-lab manipulations, and field studies that living high on the socioeconomic ladder can, colloquially speaking, dehumanize people. It can make them less ethical, more selfish, more insular, and less compassionate than other people. It can make them more likely, as Piff demonstrated in one of his experiments, to take candy from a bowl of sweets designated for children. “While having money doesn’t necessarily make anybody anything,” Piff says, “the rich are way more likely to prioritize their own self-interests above the interests of other people. It makes them more likely to exhibit characteristics that we would stereotypically associate with, say, assholes.”

Interesting.

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Friday, July 13, 2012 8:51 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

the rich are way more likely to prioritize their own self-interests above the interests of other people.


Hello,

Perhaps people 'more likely to prioritize their own self-interests' are more likely to become rich.

--Anthony



Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term fits.)
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Friday, July 13, 2012 10:14 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


That comes as no surprise. When one is isolated from the rest of the classes, it must be hard to comprehend what they face. Who was it that had never seen an auto checkout or something? They simply don't deal with the things we do on an everyday basis.

I don't think what you posit is necessarily true, Anthony, tho' in some cases it might be. I do think the isolation from what others deal with would tend to give the very rich a more self-centered attitude; after all, they have only to want it and there it is; the insularity might well lessen one's compassion for others because it's hard to comprehend others having to struggle...they just don't encounter it. The "insular" goes without saying, given they only socialize with their own class, which would also reinforce all those things. JMHO

I don't BLAME them, obviously; look at people who live in ghettos and believe that's the way it always is, always will be, they won't live past 21, joining a gang is the only way to survive, people sleeping on your couch is normal, etc., etc. Where we live and who we interact with is bound to form our ideas of what's "normal". Maybe poor people are more compassionate because they NEED one another to survive, and can empathize with others going through whatever they have. Just guessing...

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Friday, July 13, 2012 10:58 AM

CHRISISALL


Thanks, that's a great article, and it reminds me of feedback I got from people while I was making my amateur films- as a director, every single person I worked with told me the same thing: I morphed into this real asshole when we were filming, and became myself again at the end of the shoot. But I finished EVERY movie I ever started.
That article makes so much sense to me.

Chrisisall, wearing a frilly Mal thing on his head, and ready to shoot unarmed, full-body armoured Operatives

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Saturday, July 14, 2012 7:35 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
http://nymag.com/news/features/money-brain-2012-7/

An excerpt, talking about the psychologist's previous research:
Quote:

Earlier this year, Piff, who is 30, published a paper in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences that made him semi-famous. Titled “Higher Social Class Predicts Increased Unethical Behavior,” it showed through quizzes, online games, questionnaires, in-lab manipulations, and field studies that living high on the socioeconomic ladder can, colloquially speaking, dehumanize people. It can make them less ethical, more selfish, more insular, and less compassionate than other people. It can make them more likely, as Piff demonstrated in one of his experiments, to take candy from a bowl of sweets designated for children. “While having money doesn’t necessarily make anybody anything,” Piff says, “the rich are way more likely to prioritize their own self-interests above the interests of other people. It makes them more likely to exhibit characteristics that we would stereotypically associate with, say, assholes.”

Interesting.




Quote:

T-Shirt isn’t just winning; he’s crushing Glasses.


I call foul on the experiment just based off of the journalist's description of the players, let alone the setting.

I wore "glasses" in 2nd grade, and to further add insult to injury I wore braces by 6th grade. I wear contacts today and I have a perfect smile, but the BS that kids have to endure negates any self esteem I should have from that next to an Alpha snaggle toothed A-hole in the real life.

I didn't see a video or pictures of the kids they picked for this game, but it sounds to me like they pitted "me" in 7th grade against one of the popular kids and they gave him twice as much, which in effect would only further my own self depreciation and have ZERO merits that the journalist wants to portray.

The fact that the journalist continually calls the natural-born-loser in this rigged game "glasses" completely debunks the entire experiment.....


That is, unless of course, the ones doing the experiment had a completely different meaning for it, which I assume they did, because they're not morons.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." ~Shepherd Book

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Saturday, July 14, 2012 10:37 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


This is like the Stanford prison experiment and a little like the Milgram experiment - people become their roles, whether the roles are 'pretend' in college experiments of wealth and status, or real-life roles of the wealthy. It also tracks a story I read by some movie person who worked among the rich and famous who nevertheless was himself rather poor - and he despised the rich for their greed and cold-heartedness - until he got an inheritance and then found himself becoming like them.

"But when the top fifth of American families have seen their incomes rise by 45 percent since 1979, whereas the bottom fifth has seen a decline of almost 11 percent, these ­researchers want to explore a timely question: How does living in an environment defined by individual achievement—­measured by money, privilege, and ­status—alter a person’s mental machinery to the point where he begins to see the people around him only as aids or obstacles to his own ambitions? Piff won’t name a tipping point after which the personality transformation kicks in, only that his studies of ethical behavior indicate a strong correlation between high socio­economic status and interpersonal dis­regard."

And while we use words, and our riches are made possible by technology, in the end we respond no differently to dominating stuff than chimps and their pile of fruit, or baboons and their meat-containing dump.


SignyM: I swear, if we really knew what was being decided about us in our absence, and how hosed the government is prepared to let us be, we would string them up.

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Sunday, July 15, 2012 6:53 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

And while we use words, and our riches are made possible by technology, in the end we respond no differently to dominating stuff than chimps and their pile of fruit, or baboons and their meat-containing dump.


So, I've been thinking about all this. For one thing it looks like people are a group-living species. We have a complex set of behaviors that are devoted entirely to how we manage being in a group. When we're young we depend on cues from others rather than directly from our environment (and that lack is the salient deviation of autistics). And for a substantial adult portion of the population (RWAs) what they've been taught is far more salient than any fact.

Looking at societies, what they THINK people should be underlies their social and economic structure rather than any advantage or limitation of the environment.

By looking at behaviors rather than teachings, humans seem to generally have the same group response to easily dominated resources that regular chimps and baboons do, which is to encourage aggression and dominance of the group by aggressive and dominant males. That tends to lead to pathological chimp behaviors in the rest of the group.

Until the emergence of simple technology, humans lived like animals, which is to breed to the limits of resources and live at the edge of starvation, and to respond to the world as a distributed shared environment.

Simple technologies allow groups to access resources faster, allowing them an immediate survival advantage (even if not an ultimate one). This heading vigorously down an ultimately self-destructive path is consistent with evolution.

Simple technologies led to small excess, which is an easily dominated resource. These excesses led to hierarchies of aggressive and dominant males. These hierarchies are self-generating and positively feeding back, as studies of interpersonal concern v wealth demonstrate (showing that the mere presence of disparity is enough to cause the resource-richer to divorce themselves from concern for others).

As a group, people tend not to respond to the requirements of their environment but to the social structures around them. For example, people will continue to accommodate a social structure that is self-destructive and ultimately not survivable rather than create a new social structure.

Such ultimately self-destructive societies are a more likely but not inevitable evolutionary result.


SignyM: I swear, if we really knew what was being decided about us in our absence, and how hosed the government is prepared to let us be, we would string them up.

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Sunday, July 15, 2012 8:59 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Hey 1iki...

I know nobody takes me as serious 90% of the time here, and maybe you're one of them now, but I'd love to hear your response to my last post and my reaction to the "study"

Thanks :)

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." ~Shepherd Book

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