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REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
Gun debate gains traction as some lawmakers say it’s time to act
Monday, December 17, 2012 7:43 AM
NIKI2
Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...
Quote:Lawmakers tend to stay quiet in the immediate aftermath of mass shootings, hoping to avoid attempts to politicize such tragedy. But two days after the attack that took the lives of 20 children and six adults at a Connecticut elementary school, lawmakers were eager to take on the gun debate Sunday - with many saying a tipping point had finally been reached to pass stricter laws. In Congress, multiple gun control bills have been introduced in recent years, but not a single one has advanced to a floor vote. Democratic Sen. Dianne Feinstein of California said Sunday the president will soon have legislation "to lead on," announcing she will introduce a bill next month to place a ban on assault weapons. "The purpose of this bill is to get...'weapons of war' off the street of our cities," Feinstein said on NBC's "Meet the Press." The senator added she'll introduce the bill when Congress reconvenes in January and the same legislation will also be proposed in the House of Representatives. It's modeled after the original assault-weapons ban that Feinstein helped champion in 1994. "We're crafting this one. It's being done with care. It'll be ready on the first day," she said, adding that she'll soon announce the House authors. Fellow Democratic Sen. Chuck Schumer, who worked on the House version of the assault weapons ban in 1994, said Washington has been "gridlocked" over the issue because "you have both sides off in a corner." The New York senator said if pro-gun-control lawmakers can admit "there is a constitutional right to bear arms" and if anti-gun-control lawmakers can admit that "every amendment should have some balance and some limitation," then both sides can meet in the middle. "Maybe we can make some real progress instead of each side being off in their corner, one side saying ban guns, get rid of guns, and the other side saying don't you touch anything about guns," Schumer said. Connecticut has some of the strictest assault-weapons laws in the country, but Gov. Dan Malloy said Sunday that the lack of similar laws at the federal level makes it difficult to keep such weapons out of the state. He said manufacturers can use "descriptive terms to try to get around the limitations that are built into our statutes" and added many guns found in the state had been tracked from gun shows in other parts of the country. "One can only hope that we'll find a way to limit these weapons that really only have one purpose," Malloy, a Democrat, said on CNN's "State of the Union." New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who's long called for more action on gun laws, said Sunday "We kill people in schools. We kill them in hospitals. We kill them in religious organizations. We kill them when they're young. We kill them when they're old. And we've just got to stop this." He's not the only one calling on the White House to act. More than 126,000 people have signed a petition since Friday asking for Obama "to produce legislation that limits access to guns." The White House is required to respond after 25,000 signatures, and so far, the newly created web document has more signatories than any of the 154 petitions listed on the White House's website. Republican Rep. Louie Gohmert said the deadly Connecticut school shooting could have been halted sooner if staff at the school had been equipped with guns. "I wish to God (the principal) had had an M4 in her office, locked up, so when she heard gunfire she pulls it out … and takes him out, takes his head off before he can kill those precious kids," the Republican from Texas said on "Fox News Sunday." Another Republican, former Education Secretary William Bennett, made a similar argument, saying the political debate should be put on hold while emotions are still high. Bennett also agreed with the idea that schools should have a gun. Others also emphasized a need to boost mental health programs in the country. Democratic Gov. John Hickenlooper of Colorado, who was intimately involved in the aftermath of the Aurora movie theater shooting, said Colorado has spent almost $20 million in new programs to support those dealing with mental illness. "That's something we can do immediately without getting into some of the battles of gun legalization or restricting access to guns," he said on CNN, though acknowledging some gun laws need to be tweaked. In particular, he said the debate should focus on access to high-capacity magazines. His support for tougher laws in the state marks a change in policy for the governor, who earlier this year said stricter gun laws would not have helped. Sen.-elect Chris Murphy of Connecticut said Americans should not expect the newly resurfaced debate to go away anytime soon. "Frankly the tipping point should have happened a long time ago, but if this is the tipping point, then we're going to go down to Washington and prompt a conversation that's long overdue," Murphy said. Excerpts from http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/16/gun-debate-gains-traction-as-some-lawmakers-say-its-time-to-act/?hpt=hp_t2] For me, the idea of principals or others having guns at school is absurd; they would have to be carefully locked up to ensure kids didn't get to them, there's a question as to how fast they could be gotten to and how effective a principal or others could be in confronting the gunman. This one shot himself in the head after only a short time of firing, and most mass murderers DO shoot themselves after a short time of shooting. To me that's just more of the usual argument that "if everyone had a gun..." I find it strange that they refer to people in Congress wanting to eliminate guns entirely. Anyone who thinks that way is deluding themselves, in my opinion, and I'd like to know how many of those people there actually are. As far as I know, there are only two common-sense stances on this: Those of us who would like SOME limits on semi-automatic weapons, high-capacity magazines, enforcement of current gun laws, and background checks (oh, and eliminating the gun-show loophole); and those who want NO limit on ANY gun, anytime, anywhere. To keep saying it's all about those who want NO guns and those who want guns is absurd; anyone who thinks we can eliminate guns in this country is deluded. It's not all-or-nothing on both sides, it's "all or moderation", yet people keep saying all their guns are in danger of being taken away. It's not possible, period. I was surprised to hear Bloomberg say last night that New York has one of the lowest rates of gun-related deaths of any metropolitan area in the country, third only to Boston and Hartford, Conn. I looked it up, and he's right; not only that, but when it comes to central cities specifically, New York is the lowest next to only San Jose. It also has THE lowest rate of gun-related suicides by metro, as well as the lowest by central city. ( http://www.theatlanticcities.com/neighborhoods/2012/12/geography-us-gun-violence/4171/) Given Bloomberg's anti-gun views, New York's stringent gun laws, and the vast number of people crammed into New York City, for me it goes a ways toward putting the lie to the idea that "gun laws don't stop" gun-related deaths. I don't want to see guns eliminated in America; after thinking about it, I wouldn't want it even if it were possible. I'd just like to see some common-sense limitations. For the vast majority of thinking people, the idea of eliminating all guns in America is just laughable. I wish it were possible to discuss THAT, rather than pro-gun people constantly saying it's "all or nothing". I hope some legislation gets passed--I'm not holding my breath, but I can hope--to do something about the availability of semi-automatic weapons and high-volume magazines. More would be better, especially closing the loophole on gun-show sales and better enforcement, but at the very least, I'd like to try minimizing the ability of unstable people committing mass murders.
Monday, December 17, 2012 9:00 AM
PIRATENEWS
John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!
Monday, December 17, 2012 9:02 AM
AURAPTOR
America loves a winner!
Monday, December 17, 2012 9:07 AM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Democracy = mob rule. Rushing to restrict our freedoms under the guise of saving us , from ourselves. "False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates " I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "
Monday, December 17, 2012 9:14 AM
JONGSSTRAW
Monday, December 17, 2012 9:42 AM
Monday, December 17, 2012 9:59 AM
STORYMARK
Monday, December 17, 2012 10:09 AM
Monday, December 17, 2012 10:22 AM
Monday, December 17, 2012 10:57 AM
CHRISISALL
Quote:Originally posted by Jongsstraw: If 20 kids, each shot multiple times in five minutes, isn't the absolute last straw, then what the hell is? I'll support Obama on this, Only a parent can fully understand what these Newtown parents are dealing with.
Monday, December 17, 2012 11:29 AM
ANTHONYT
Freedom is Important because People are Important
Quote:Originally posted by Jongsstraw: If 20 kids, each shot multiple times in five minutes, isn't the absolute last straw, then what the hell is? I'll support Obama on this, and if they have to kick in every door to get these automatic and semi-automatic weapons I'll volunteer to help. Only a parent can fully understand what these Newtown parents are dealing with. "When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the Republic." Benjamin Franklin
Monday, December 17, 2012 11:53 AM
GEEZER
Keep the Shiny side up
Quote:Originally posted by Jongsstraw: If 20 kids, each shot multiple times in five minutes, isn't the absolute last straw, then what the hell is?
Monday, December 17, 2012 12:11 PM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Jongs If I had a gun, legal and licensed, and the govt came to take it away, busting in my door, they'd need more than 1 body bag, I can tell you that.
Monday, December 17, 2012 12:15 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Geezer: So you'll support rounding up all the strange loner kids and giving them exhaustive psychological testing to insure that none of them will ever do such a thing?
Monday, December 17, 2012 12:17 PM
Quote:Originally posted by chrisisall: Quote:Originally posted by Jongsstraw: If 20 kids, each shot multiple times in five minutes, isn't the absolute last straw, then what the hell is? I'll support Obama on this, Only a parent can fully understand what these Newtown parents are dealing with. Amen bro.
Monday, December 17, 2012 12:24 PM
Monday, December 17, 2012 12:27 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Geezer: Quote:Originally posted by Jongsstraw: If 20 kids, each shot multiple times in five minutes, isn't the absolute last straw, then what the hell is? So you'll support rounding up all the strange loner kids and giving them exhaustive psychological testing to insure that none of them will ever do such a thing?
Monday, December 17, 2012 12:28 PM
Monday, December 17, 2012 12:44 PM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Jongs, You're displaying the same ignorance of guns which the Left showed with the " assult " weapons ban. It was pointless, and idiotic, and based more on how bad the gun LOOKED. Glock ( http://us.glock.com/ ) is a maker of pistols, for all sorts , from military, police and the private citizen. They don't even make assault rifles or machine guns. So, fuck anyone who wants a gun grab for that which they clearly don't know a damn thing about in the first place. Hysterics isn't a good means of rational govt. What you're supporting is tyranny. I would not side w/ that. Also, a " rock solid " profile ? You mean like how Richard Jewell was profiled in the Olympic Park bombing, in the '96 Olympics ? Again, what you're talking about Jongs, exists only on t.v., and not in the real world. "False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates " I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "
Monday, December 17, 2012 12:45 PM
Quote: "There's going to be a Marxist revolution in Amerika. We need to be organized and grow the movement." -Barack Hussein Obama Soetoro, member of the Young Marxist Club at Occidental College http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/02/meeting_young_obama.html "I don't regret setting bombs. I feel we didn't do enough. Kill all the rich people. Break up their cars and apartments. Bring the revolution home, kill your parents, that's where it's really at. Everything was absolutely ideal on the day I bombed the Pentagon.'' -Professor Bill Ayers, FBI/CIA employee and confessed bomber of NYPD HQ, US Capitol, NY Supreme Court, bombed and killed two female bombers in his house, busted CIA LSD mind-control agent Timothy Leary out of prison, confessed to 12 bombings in Operation Northwoods but never prosecuted, author of Barack Hussien Obama Sotoro's authorized biography and grant recipient of Obama's Annenberg Foundation http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/August-2001/No-Regrets/ "Last Thursday evening at Montclair State University, with a video camera rolling, Bill Ayers volunteered that yes indeed he had written the acclaimed Barack Obama memoir, Dreams from My Father. 'Yeah, yeah,' he said after confirming again that he wrote Dreams, 'And if you help me prove it, I'll split the royalties with you. Thank you very much.' -Terrorist Ayres ADMITS writing "autobiography" for Obama http://capoliticalnews.com/blog_post/show/8090 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Ayers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_underground "I'm Barack Obama, the Marxist professor. I spent the last two years of high school in a daze. I drank beer heavily, and tried drugs enthusiastically. Look I uh, when I was a kid , I inhaled, frequently. that was uh, that was the point. Pot helped, and booze. A little blow when you could afford it. Junkie, pothead, that's where I was headed. Now you know that guy ain't shit. Sorry ass motherfuckers got nothin on me, nothin. Shit's gettin way too complicated for me. There are white folks, then there are ignorant motherfuckers like you. You can put lipstick on a pig. You ain't my bitch nigger, buy your own damn fries. That's just how white folks will do ya." -Barack Hussein Obama Soetoro, Dreams From My Father MP3 http://www.archive.org/details/ObamaInauguralMashup/ "Government control of communications and transportation." -Communist Manifesto, 6th Plank
Monday, December 17, 2012 12:48 PM
Monday, December 17, 2012 12:54 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Jongsstraw: Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Jongs, You're displaying the same ignorance of guns which the Left showed with the " assult " weapons ban. It was pointless, and idiotic, and based more on how bad the gun LOOKED. Glock ( http://us.glock.com/ ) is a maker of pistols, for all sorts , from military, police and the private citizen. They don't even make assault rifles or machine guns. So, fuck anyone who wants a gun grab for that which they clearly don't know a damn thing about in the first place. Hysterics isn't a good means of rational govt. What you're supporting is tyranny. I would not side w/ that. Also, a " rock solid " profile ? You mean like how Richard Jewell was profiled in the Olympic Park bombing, in the '96 Olympics ? Again, what you're talking about Jongs, exists only on t.v., and not in the real world. "False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates " I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. " Calling me ignorant does you no service. You're also totally wrong about behavioral analysis and the real world. Psychological profiles can and do catch killers, and only law enforcement knows how many lives have been saved this way. I would start with... a) High school loners aged 15-18 b) Bullying victims aged 14-18 c) Males between 18-25 who don't work or go to college Also, taking away assault weapons and large magazine semi-automatic handguns is not tyranny. It is a common sense approach for the common good. "Ensure domestic tranquility" is in the preamble of the Constitution. It is My right to not have to live in fear of these weapons of mass destruction. "When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the Republic." Benjamin Franklin
Monday, December 17, 2012 1:01 PM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Jongs - You looked real silly w/ your Glocks comment. Also, I'm not disputing that profiling CAN work in a case by case basis, but you're talking about in a country of 300 million +. Hell, any teenager or young male that 'acts up', at some time, would be put on your Gestapo list of deviants. "False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates " I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "
Monday, December 17, 2012 1:15 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Jongsstraw: Silly? Not at all. Glocks are like Berettas, Sig Sauers, Brownings etc. They have magazines that hold around 14-20 rounds, and they fire 9mm bullets. They became popular a couple of decades ago because they were lightweight and had fast action with little recoil. It's a military killing machine. It has no right to be out there, in the hands of lunatics, threatening my grandkids in school or anywhere else.
Monday, December 17, 2012 1:31 PM
1KIKI
Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.
Monday, December 17, 2012 5:00 PM
PEACEKEEPER
Keeping order in every verse
Monday, December 17, 2012 5:09 PM
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 3:45 AM
Quote:Originally posted by chrisisall: Quote:Originally posted by Geezer: So you'll support rounding up all the strange loner kids and giving them exhaustive psychological testing to insure that none of them will ever do such a thing? What? Dude, either you're trying to be funny here (& are failing) or you need help your own self.
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 8:40 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Geezer: As noted several times, Not sure why no one wants to seriously discuss this.
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 9:31 AM
M52NICKERSON
DALEK!
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: If I had a gun, legal and licensed, and the govt came to take it away, busting in my door, they'd need more than 1 body bag, I can tell you that.
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 9:34 AM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Jongs, You're displaying the same ignorance of guns which the Left showed with the " assult " weapons ban. It was pointless, and idiotic, and based more on how bad the gun LOOKED.
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 9:53 AM
Quote:Originally posted by m52nickerson: Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: If I had a gun, legal and licensed, and the govt came to take it away, busting in my door, they'd need more than 1 body bag, I can tell you that. They do make body bags for fat people, so you would be covered.
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 10:39 AM
Quote:Originally posted by m52nickerson: Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Jongs, You're displaying the same ignorance of guns which the Left showed with the " assult " weapons ban. It was pointless, and idiotic, and based more on how bad the gun LOOKED. You do realize that guns look different very often because they are designed for different purposes...right?
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 11:42 AM
Quote: You constantly hide behind this "Constitutional right" bullshit, to justify having multi billion dollar weapons manufacturers dictate policy to you. I'm not even going to bother getting into the argument.Suffice it to say, that the rest of us are PRAYING that you do something about it, just so as we can welcome you to the grown up world. It's been far too long in coming.
Quote: Truthfully, we as a nation will not spend money on preventative measures of any kind. Treating mental illness might be the best way to avoid future shootings, but we won't go there. The occasional shooting & its clean up is cheaper than a health care system tweak of any kind, I find that rather disgusting my own self, but there you go.
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 11:47 AM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: No. The point you missed is that it was by how a gun LOOKED, to the untrained eyes of some members of congress, in how it was determined which guns would be banned, and which weren't, during the last " assault " gun ban.
ARLO
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Saturday, December 22, 2012 8:15 AM
RIONAEIRE
Beir bua agus beannacht
Saturday, December 22, 2012 8:43 AM
Quote:Another high-profile Democrat with strong backing from the National Rifle Association said Monday it was time for tougher gun laws. "I believe every American has Second Amendment rights. The ability to hunt is part of our culture. I have an NRA rating of an 'A,' but enough is enough," Sen. Mark Warner of Virginia told WBBT, a local CNN affiliate in Richmond.
Quote:"Everything should be on the table," West Virginia Sen. Joe Manchin declared Monday. He is a conservative Democrat, avid hunter and lifelong member of the National Rifle Association. Manchin said he's "not afraid of the political ramifications" from defying the NRA.
Quote:Republican Sen. Chuck Grassley of Iowa proposed a study of both gun violence and mental health issues.
Quote:Democratic Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid vowed Congress would soon "engage in a meaningful conversation and thoughtful debate about how to change laws and culture that allow violence to grow." In 2010, top NRA official Wayne LaPierre called Reid "a true champion" of gun rights.
Quote:U.S. Rep. John Yarmuth said Monday that he was wrong for not speaking up sooner about gun violence and that legislators should not fear the pro-gun lobby in passing stricter controls aimed at avoiding a repeat of the carnage at a Connecticut school.
Quote:Senator Richard Durbin of Illinois, who is the chairman of a subcommittee on the Constitution and civil rights, said that he would hold hearings on Second Amendment rights. “What will it take?” Mr. Durbin wrote, listing one by one the mass shootings that have occurred in the United States over the past few years. “What it will take is for the majority of Americans, and the majority of thoughtful gun owners and hunters, to agree that there must be reasonable limits on gun ownership and weapons.”
Quote:In Albany, Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo said he would make several gun policy proposals in his state of the state address next month.
Quote:Senator Charles E. Schumer of New York called for “a new paradigm” in the gun control debate and cautioned that proponents of tighter regulation needed to be mindful of the concerns of responsible gun owners as they pursued their cause. “First, those of us who are pro-gun-control have to admit that there is a Second Amendment right to bear arms,” he said. And the other side, he added, was being counterproductive by claiming “the left wants to take that hunting rifle your Uncle Tommy gave you when you were 15.”
Quote:Senator Joseph I. Lieberman, an independent from Connecticut who is about to leave Congress, was among those calling for restrictions on assault weapons. Mr. Lieberman repeated his views that assault weapons “were weapons created by the U.S. military for use in war.”
Saturday, December 22, 2012 10:08 AM
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