REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

More violent

POSTED BY: BYTEMITE
UPDATED: Wednesday, January 2, 2013 08:54
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Sunday, December 30, 2012 8:51 AM

BYTEMITE


Alright, Sig pointed out to me that I derailed the thread about the rape victims with personal anecdotes when the conversation started to become about which gender is more violent.

In the interest of giving the victims discussed in that thread the respect they deserve, I will start a different thread to discuss that other issue.

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Sunday, December 30, 2012 9:42 AM

CHRISISALL


Predators need to be put down IMO. Violent asswipes of whatever age.
This would include Romney, who held down a kid & forcefully cut his hair off because he was gay. Give them a shot, go to sleep. Wanna rape, torture, subjugate? Do it in Hell.

End of violent fantasy rant.

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Sunday, December 30, 2012 10:05 AM

BYTEMITE


...>_>

I will try not to contribute too much into this thread, as I'm one of the violent torture types, and because it probably would derail the thread. Perhaps it is best for other people to discuss it without me.

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Sunday, December 30, 2012 12:09 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Err, this is one of those places where I have serious moral dissonance with most folk...

See, from a theological aspect, the principles I abide by require that if someone *must* be taken out, it should be an utterly dispassionate act regardless of their own deeds or ones one personal enmity, because to do less contaminates the act spiritually.
There's more TO it than that, but that's prolly the best explaination I can give about it.

From a practical aspect, the more time and effort you waste on the matter, the more chance you create for them to escape, via fate, accident, talking you out of it, whatever - far better to just finish up quick and clean, relatively speaking.

-F

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Sunday, December 30, 2012 12:30 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:

if someone *must* be taken out, it should be an utterly dispassionate act

Like taking out the garbage?
No- strike that; I *HATE* taking out the garbage.
Like removing a tick from your pet, then?

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Sunday, December 30, 2012 12:36 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

While I have personally had moments where I wanted an abuser to die, (and what victim doesn't?) I don't think that a policy of revenge or murder is good for a society.

It's one thing to kill someone in self-defense. It's another to murder them, passionately or dispassionately, once your life is no longer in imminent danger.

--Anthony



Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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Sunday, December 30, 2012 12:44 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
It's another to murder them, passionately or dispassionately, once your life is no longer in imminent danger.


I don't think Frem was talking about 'after' the moment, Tony.

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Sunday, December 30, 2012 7:27 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Actually I was.
Heat-of-the-moment is a different thing, what I was speaking of was more Setsuninto--Katsujinken, as explained by Ellis Amdur.

The sword that takes life, the sword that gives life
http://www.koryu.com/library/eamdur3.html
Quote:

Some pseudo-Buddhist scholars of the sword imagine that there is a state of fluid perfection, called "enlightenment," in which one can act at each and every moment without reflection or doubt, the spontaneous act being the only one suitable to that particular moment. The enlightened one, then, could cut down an individual without murderous intention, in their intuitive all-encompassing understanding that the interpenetrating web of universe is best served that this individual die. The slaughtered one's life is culminated and, in fact, "demands" death at this moment to be properly fulfilled.

Which covers heat-of-the-moment and the fugue-state.

But I was speaking of the more moral-crisis of when forgiveness becomes enablement.
(slightly paraphrased for clarity)
Quote:

When I interviewed that boy, I knew what he was capable of doing. I had no expectation that treatment would help him, but that was the best suggestion I could come up with. I knew he would, sooner or later, do something horrible to some poor child.

Am I a moral failure in that I did not kill him?

Is it my responsibility merely to offer therapy to those I can, teach as many people as I can how to protect themselves from violence, saving myself to raise my sons, saving myself, therefore, from the consequences of what I knew was going to happen?

I could have saved the child he raped an unimaginable world of pain, and probably other children, too, when he finally gets out of prison. Were you to hear that I had killed him, solely based on my intuition and assessment, what would be your reaction?

My own answer to this question is the choice I made, but I will be haunted until my death at the thought of that child, her flesh ground into a sidewalk, the sun beating down upon her pain, indifferent as the flat, shark eyes of her rapist.

What, then, is the sword that gives life?


It is a very valid question, and one that my beliefs answer by removing the violence-of-emotion from the equation, for if one becomes the same as that which they pursue, where then is the gain for anyone ?

-Frem

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Monday, December 31, 2012 3:55 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Please Disregard this message.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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Tuesday, January 1, 2013 5:44 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:
See, from a theological aspect, the principles I abide by require that if someone *must* be taken out, it should be an utterly dispassionate act regardless of their own deeds or ones one personal enmity, because to do less contaminates the act spiritually.



If another human being must be killed, it must be done with the utmost regret, thanking them for their sacrifice that others may live, like the way Native Americans killed animals they hunted for food/clothing.

I agree that dispassionate is the way to go, though for a different reason, I suppose.

-----

Disobedience is not an issue if obedience is not the goal.

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Tuesday, January 1, 2013 6:37 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by canttakesky:
If another human being must be killed, it must be done with the utmost regret, thanking them for their sacrifice that others may live

Agreement here.

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Tuesday, January 1, 2013 6:42 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


what other issue?

I don't believe in capital punishment, nor do I believe in vengence.

If you have to protect yourself, it should be with appropriate force. I can't think of many situations that would involve blowing someone away.

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Tuesday, January 1, 2013 8:11 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


I haven't read the thread in question yet, but I know Frem is right, just do it and get it done, make it quick, reduce suffering, even if the person is a rutter who deserves it, its easier and better to just have it over.

But there is a piece of me that is kind of mean, that wouldn't mind indulging a bit if I had a vendetta against someone. If someone hurt people I love I wouldn't mind hurting them a bit before I have it over with, whether "over with" means killing them or giving them to the authorities. A lil' torture might be satisfying. But I think that would ware off fast and I'd want it over and done with, after all its not my job to judge, its God's job and the justice system's job.

As you can see I have a lot of conflicting ideas about these things, I'm a bundle of conflict within myself on the matter. Fortunately its not something I ponder too often and hopefully I'll never be in a situation to find out what I would do, my preferred state of things would be to never need to encounter such things.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Wednesday, January 2, 2013 8:54 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

It's one thing to kill someone in self-defense. It's another to murder them, passionately or dispassionately, once your life is no longer in imminent danger.

I agree with Anthony and CTTS. I recognize the FEELING of wanting to hurt someone who has hurt others, but feelings aren't what count. Actions count, and I know without a doubt that I couldn't torture another person or animal and live with myself. So I have the feelings/thoughts, but don't encourage them, and know I would only kill in defense of self or others.

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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