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REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
The practical uses of gun control.
Monday, January 7, 2013 2:21 PM
AURAPTOR
America loves a winner!
Monday, January 7, 2013 2:27 PM
CHRISISALL
Monday, January 7, 2013 4:38 PM
Monday, January 7, 2013 4:41 PM
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: 1kiki is a frelling moron.
Monday, January 7, 2013 7:16 PM
KWICKO
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)
Quote:The Aurora shooting suspect, 33-year-old Sonny Archuleta, whose wife is the only survivor of Saturday’s Aurora shooting incident by jumping out the window, had lost his brother last year due to gun violence according to a RYOT news report on Jan. 5, 2013. The Aurora shooting suspect’s brother Pat had been murdered in a local restaurant in Denver on Sept. 3, 2012.
Tuesday, January 8, 2013 7:21 AM
Quote:Originally posted by chrisisall: Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: 1kiki is a frelling moron. I see no evidence of that here...
Wednesday, January 9, 2013 8:06 AM
NIKI2
Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...
Quote:In 1998, for every time that a civilian used a handgun to kill in self-defense, 51 people lost their lives in handgun homicides alone. Add in suicides and the ratio stretches to 134 to one. (Unintended Consequences, p. 60) And yet, over the last 30 years, the gun industry has promoted the putative value of handguns for self-defense more than any other benefit, such as recreation. The gun industry argues that this supposed self-defense benefit outweighs the risk of harm from pistols and revolvers demonstrated each year by America's unparalleled handgun death and injury rates. the overwhelming majority of people who own handguns: --are ignorant ofï, or ignore, basic handgun safety rules; --do not have the necessary handgun combat marksmanship skills to effectively defend themselves without harming innocent others; and, --are not prepared for the extreme physiological and psychological effects that the experts, many of whom have on-the-street law enforcement experience with firearms, agree inevitably occur in an armed life-or-death confrontation (the only situation in which lethal force is justified in self-defense). Lots more at http://www.vpc.org/studies/uninexec.htm
Wednesday, January 9, 2013 9:06 AM
PIRATENEWS
John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!
Quote:Body Found in Carnesville Identified January 7, 2013 By MJ Kneiser In Carnesville, not much is known yet about the death of a Kentucky man found late last Thursday on Hayes Road. According to Franklin County Sheriff Stevie Thomas, the body of 32-year old Keith Ratliff of Frankfort, Kentucky was found about 5:45p Thursday evening. At the time, authorities would not release any information until the victim’s relatives had been notified. On Sunday, Thomas said Ratliff’s body was discovered after a 911 call. “We received a call about a possible DOA,” Thomas said Sunday. “Upon the deputies arrival, they found a white male who was unconscious and not breathing. EMS personnel came and determined the man was deceased.” Thomas said they are treating the death as a homicide until the investigation proves otherwise. He would not say why the man was in Carnesville or give any other information. Investigators, Thomas said, determined Ratliff had died of a single gunshot to the head and that his body been there for some time. Thomas said investigators found numerous guns in the area where Ratliff’s body was found. Sheriff Thomas said agents with the Georgia Bureau of Investigation have been called in to assist in the investigation. Ratliff’s body was taken to the GBI Crime Lab in Atlanta for autopsy. Thomas said the investigation is ongoing and more information will be released as it becomes available. http://www.921wlhr.com/body-found-in-carnesville-identified-2/ The channel was made up of 3 people. Myself who managed the channel and Business, Keith who handled the weapons and manufacturing of anything we needed (Weapons manager) and FPS Russia. Myself and FPS Russia are still alive, in shock but alive. It is being treated as Homicide, we don't know the circumstances in which it happened and personally it doesn't feel real, we are at a bit of a loss. Keith was always armed, and knew how to shoot this is what is shocking to us, he wouldn't go down without a fight. No way. The factory where it took place was partially a set for a new show that we were about to start filming of which Keith was to be a part of. If it was someone he knew and trusted he likely wouldn't be expecting anything to happen. -Kitty Lash http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3917557
Wednesday, January 9, 2013 9:12 AM
STORYMARK
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: An attack on someone not even in this thread, with one example of something inexplicable...damn, that's a new low for Rap. Congratulations, moron!
Friday, January 11, 2013 8:05 AM
Quote:How Many People Have Been Killed by Guns In America Since Newtown? The answer to the simple question in that headline is surprisingly hard to come by. So Slate and the Twitter feed @GunDeaths are collecting data for our crowdsourced interactive. This data is necessarily incomplete. But the more people who are paying attention, the better the data will be. If you know about a gun death in your community that isn’t represented here, please tweet @GunDeaths with a citation. The answer? 695. In less than a month. More, and interactive version of the above, with each case identifiable by clicking on it and an interactive map showing where they occurred at http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/crime/2012/12/gun_death_tally_every_ american_gun_death_since_newtown_sandy_hook_shooting.html
Tuesday, January 15, 2013 12:35 PM
SHINYGOODGUY
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 2:51 AM
M52NICKERSON
DALEK!
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 3:06 AM
GEEZER
Keep the Shiny side up
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: I wonder how many deer were killed in that time, and how many guns were successfully used by people to stop crime? I believe those are two of the arguments for gun ownership, aren't they?
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 8:35 AM
Quote:Kleck’s survey {not "study", notice} also included gun uses against animals and did not distinguish civilian uses from military or police uses. Kleck’s Interviewers do not appear to have questioned a random individual at a given telephone number, but rather asked to speak to the male head of the household. Males from the South and West were oversampled. The results imply that many hundreds of thousands of murders should have been occurring when a private gun was not available for protection. Yet guns are rarely carried, less than a third of adult Americans personally own guns, and only 27,000 homicides occurred in 1992.
Quote:Kleck's survey shows armed citizens wounding or killing attackers 207,000 times in one year, contrasted against the total of around 100,000 Americans wounded or killed, accidentally or intentionally, in a typical year. "SURVEY RESEARCH AND SELF-DEFENSE GUN USE: AN EXPLANATION OF EXTREME OVERESTIMATES". Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology (Northwestern) 87: 1430. Retrieved 9 November 2012
Quote:incidents in which victims used guns for self-protection, an average of 4.75 times per minute for each minute of the year, compared to about four hundred thousand crimes committed by offenders with guns.Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz, "Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense with a Gun", 86 Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology 1, 1995
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 8:49 AM
Quote: Many people are amazed that projections about national phenomena can be made based on a telephone survey of a few thousand adults. While many surveys of this type can provide useful information about national phenomena, in this particular case the public’s skepticism is warranted. The primary problem is that, even if the Kleck and Gertz’s estimates were accurate, defensive gun use is a relatively rare occurrence in that only 1% of respondents reported a defensive gun use during the previous 12 months. As David Hemenway of Harvard University has pointed out, inaccurate reporting of these events by a relatively small number of respondents could lead to population projections that are orders of magnitude different from the true incidence.14 For example, if one-half of one percent of the survey respondents incorrectly reported that they had used a gun to defend themselves against a criminal attack during the past year, the estimated number of defensive gun uses would be twice as high the true number. There are many reasons that respondents’ reports of defensive gun use might be exaggerated. In some cases, respondents may have misjudged the level of danger they faced when they drew their gun. Survey researchers are also familiar with two types of response bias, “telescoping” and social desirability bias, that could lead to an overstated incidence of reported events such as defensive gun use. Telescoping refers to the tendency of respondents to report that salient events such as a crime victimization or a defensive gun use occurred more recently than was the case. Evidence that the Kleck-Gertz survey respondents are telescoping their recollections of their crime victimizations comes from the estimated number of robbery victimizations it produces that is nearly five times as high as the estimate derived from the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS). The NCVS minimizes telescoping by using shorter recall periods and a panel design that re-surveys respondents multiple times over a three-year period. Social desirability bias refers to the tendency of respondents to over-report their actions they believe others would find admirable such as an heroic act to defend oneself or others against a criminal. There is no way to definitively determine the degree to which social desirability bias may have influenced the Kleck-Gertz estimates of defensive gun use. However, it seems likely that the nearly half of the respondents reporting defensive gun uses who indicated that they believe their defensive gun use saved their life or the life of someone else probably thought of their actions as heroic. Such incidents are regularly reported in American Rifleman, a monthly magazine distributed to all members of the National Rifle Association, in a manner that unequivocally portrays the incidents as heroic acts. Daniel Webster, ScD, MPH, Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, MD; Jens Ludwig, PhD, Georgetown University, Washington, DC, "Myths about Defensive Gun Use and Permissive Gun Carry Laws"; much more at http://www.bmsg.org/pdfs/myths.pdf
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 5:39 PM
JONGSSTRAW
Quote: Originally posted by Geezer: The University of Florida's self-defense study found that a firearm is used for self-defense every 13 seconds, so that'd be about 200,000 times a month.
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 7:00 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Jongsstraw: Quote: Originally posted by Geezer: The University of Florida's self-defense study found that a firearm is used for self-defense every 13 seconds, so that'd be about 200,000 times a month. Every 13 seconds? Riiiiiight. And if my grandmother had handles she'd be a wheelbarrow.
Thursday, January 17, 2013 4:15 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: As to Kleck's SURVEY (it was not a STUDY, and it was not the University of Florida's, it was Kleck's) and the 2.5 million, etc., etc., it has been debunked many times, as i've mentioned before. The only ones who continue to cite it again and again are those pro-gun. For a thorough examination of his study and why it is not a viable OR verifiable source, read http://vacps.org/public-policy/the-contradictions-of-kleck
Thursday, January 17, 2013 4:48 AM
HERO
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: Let's see...one woman defends herself.
Thursday, January 17, 2013 8:22 AM
Quote:We can do a validity check on Kleck's numbers by using them to calculate some real-world condition. Let's look at the Rs who reported a DGU. In any given year, there are 2.5 million of them. 15.7% estimated that they ``almost certainly'' would have been killed if they had not resisted with a gun. Another 14.2% said ``probably'' and 16.2% said they ``might have'' been killed. They had the additional choices of ``probably not'' and ``almost certainly not''. If the surveyors and the Rs are honest and accurate, these numbers will have some similarity to real crime statistics. Assume that all of the ``almost certainlys'', half of the ``probablys'' and none of the ``might haves'' were killed, for a total of 15.7+8.1=23.8%, or, approximately 20%. Apparently, something like half of all American households have guns. Let us assume that half of all Americans are armed and ready to defend themselves. This is probably an overestimate. This means that another 2.5 million Americans experienced a criminal act that they could have defended themselves from if they had been armed. According to the statistics above, something like 20% of them ought to have died. That works out to 500,000 homicides. The rate of successful homicides in the U.S. was something like 20,0001 at the time of Kleck's survey. Kleck's lethality estimates are out by well over an order of magnitude. Note that I rounded down my percentage killed, and almost certainly, I overestimated the percentage of Americans armed and ready to defend themselves. http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson/GunSurveys/GunSurveys.html#SECTION00040000000000000000] Also:Quote:Thoroughly debunked years ago, the gun lobby’s favorite research – a 1995 study by Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz that reported an astounding 2.5 million defense gun uses (DGU) each year in the United States. Yep, you read it right; 2.5 million DGUs PER YEAR! The Kleck study claims that 2.5 million times per year, someone uses a gun to defend themselves. That’s more defensive gun uses than happened in WWII in Europe in 1944. The Kleck study is so flawed the only thing it measures is the wild imagination of gun owners. As recently as this month, the NRA referenced Kleck’s deeply flawed and thoroughly refuted study AGAIN in their magazine, America’s 1st Freedom. With the help of liars like Alan Korwin and others, the NRA continues to feed its readers demonstrable lies and distortions. Here, for your reference, is a short list of the many peer reviewed, refereed, academic articles published that clearly refute Kleck’s astronomical claim.* • “The gun debate’s new mythical number: How many defensive uses per year?” Journal of Police Analysis and Management, 1997 • “The myth of millions of annual self-defense gun use: A case study of survey overestimates of rare events” Chance – American Statistical Association, 1997 • “Defensive Gun Uses: New Evidence from a National Survey” Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1998 • “The Relative Frequency of Offensive and Defensive Gun Uses: Results from a National Survey”, Violence and Victims, 2000 • “Myths about Defensive Gun Use and Permissive Gun Carry Laws” Berkeley Media Studies Group, 2000 • “Comparing the Incidence of Self-Defense Gun Use and Criminal Gun Use” Harvard Injury Control Research Center, 2009 The ultimate proof the Kleck claim is bullshit, is the fact that despite spending 35 million dollars/year to deceive the public and threaten politicians, in fourteen years since the study, the gun lobby has funded numerous FAILED attempts to repeat Kleck’s study. http://www.oneutah.org/tag/kleck-de-bunkerd-kleck-debunked/ I would suggest, rather than focusing on one cite which he considers inappropriate, Geezer REFUTE the facts presented in that cite, and in all the others. THEN we'd have something to discuss; rejecting the cite without refuting what it presents in facts and figures is irrelevant. Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.
Quote:Thoroughly debunked years ago, the gun lobby’s favorite research – a 1995 study by Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz that reported an astounding 2.5 million defense gun uses (DGU) each year in the United States. Yep, you read it right; 2.5 million DGUs PER YEAR! The Kleck study claims that 2.5 million times per year, someone uses a gun to defend themselves. That’s more defensive gun uses than happened in WWII in Europe in 1944. The Kleck study is so flawed the only thing it measures is the wild imagination of gun owners. As recently as this month, the NRA referenced Kleck’s deeply flawed and thoroughly refuted study AGAIN in their magazine, America’s 1st Freedom. With the help of liars like Alan Korwin and others, the NRA continues to feed its readers demonstrable lies and distortions. Here, for your reference, is a short list of the many peer reviewed, refereed, academic articles published that clearly refute Kleck’s astronomical claim.* • “The gun debate’s new mythical number: How many defensive uses per year?” Journal of Police Analysis and Management, 1997 • “The myth of millions of annual self-defense gun use: A case study of survey overestimates of rare events” Chance – American Statistical Association, 1997 • “Defensive Gun Uses: New Evidence from a National Survey” Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1998 • “The Relative Frequency of Offensive and Defensive Gun Uses: Results from a National Survey”, Violence and Victims, 2000 • “Myths about Defensive Gun Use and Permissive Gun Carry Laws” Berkeley Media Studies Group, 2000 • “Comparing the Incidence of Self-Defense Gun Use and Criminal Gun Use” Harvard Injury Control Research Center, 2009 The ultimate proof the Kleck claim is bullshit, is the fact that despite spending 35 million dollars/year to deceive the public and threaten politicians, in fourteen years since the study, the gun lobby has funded numerous FAILED attempts to repeat Kleck’s study. http://www.oneutah.org/tag/kleck-de-bunkerd-kleck-debunked/
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