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330,000 PhDs and Masters Degree grads now on Food Stamps, Obama says 'Recession' is over (welcome to the Greatest Depression)

POSTED BY: PIRATENEWS
UPDATED: Wednesday, January 9, 2013 14:32
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Wednesday, January 9, 2013 7:37 AM

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Wednesday, January 9, 2013 7:54 AM

BYTEMITE


I've mentioned before, it's not that people aren't training to become scientists or engineers, it's that there really aren't jobs. And just out of college it's hard to get the foot in the door. In an economic crunch like this one, even more so.

Interesting statistics. Thanks PN.

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Wednesday, January 9, 2013 10:30 AM

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Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
I've mentioned before, it's not that people aren't training to become scientists or engineers, it's that there really aren't jobs. And just out of college it's hard to get the foot in the door. In an economic crunch like this one, even more so.

Interesting statistics. Thanks PN.



The University of TN at Knoxville only trains engineers to work in the Govt's nuclear bomb factories in Oak Ridge TN. So graduates of that engineering college are unemployable in manufacturing jobs, for lack of skill sets.

This is according to an engineering grad at UTK, who said only 10% of what he learned in school was usable in the real world, and calculus is never used in software engineering. He worked at Microsoft and Intel making over $200,000/year, and paid his employees nearly $200,000/yr.

Bill Gates never went to college, so a degree is not required to be a software engineer (especially if your daddy genocided 50-million babies at Planned Parenthood).

Another fiend was in the PhD program at UTK and got shafted out of his PhD. His $30,000 in student loans are now a debt of $150,000, which he can nver afford to pay back on a journlist salary of $15,000/yr.

College is a Communist babysitting service in a Victim Disarmament Zone, same as all other skools.

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Wednesday, January 9, 2013 11:23 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I think that's a rather short-sighted viewpoint, Byte. We're in a recession--and I have called it a "depression" for a long time now (I think the antipathy to use the correct term is out of fear of public and investor reaction). What we've been experiencing the past few years isn't indicative of the larger overview of time. As of 2011:
Quote:

STEM is shorthand for "science, technology, engineering, and mathematics" — all fields that are growing, providing lucrative jobs, and key to future American competitiveness.

....Each year, American technology and engineering firms push to expand the number of workers allowed under the "H-1B" visa program, a category that allows companies to hire foreigners in roles where they cannot find a qualified American citizen.

STEM anxiety is also an outgrowth of larger concerns about American competitiveness. The growing number of STEM workers in countries like China and India has policymakers on edge.

American students should be doing better in math and science than they are now, and we are arguably producing too few college STEM majors. If the global competitiveness race turns into a numbers game, we're in trouble absent dramatic improvements. Besides, there is little doubt that our own economic future hinges in no small part on remaining a leader in innovation in science and technology. Excerpts from http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2074024,00.html


Rather than looking at today's picture and saying (as some on the right have) that we have too many STEM graduates, it might be worth considering that we WILL need them as the economy improves.

Our entire education system is failing us, compared to many other countries who put a higher value on education than we seem to have in recent years.

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Wednesday, January 9, 2013 11:50 AM

BYTEMITE


...I don't know who wrote that article, but they're incorrect. We produce as many science and engineers as do foreign countries (their numbers are often artificially inflated by counting vocational training in with scientists and engineers), the amount of STEM graduates has been fairly steady. There just aren't enough jobs. Most scientists I know acknowledge there's a problem with lack of jobs, and difficulty of getting in the door is a problem for graduates of any field. Both of these problems existed well before this economic crisis, the economic crisis just exacerbated it.

http://scienceblogs.com/mikethemadbiologist/2009/12/30/do-we-need-more
-scientists-or
/

http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2012/06/scientis
t_shortage_is_a_myth_.html


http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=does-the-us-produce-t
oo-m


http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2012/06/13/no-america-does-not-
need-more-scientists-and-engineers
/

http://www.thegrindstone.com/2012/07/09/education/us-doesnt-have-enoug
h-science-jobs-257
/

http://www.psmag.com/science/the-real-science-gap-16191/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/us-pushes-for-mo
re-scientists-but-the-jobs-arent-there/2012/07/07/gJQAZJpQUW_print.html


^You probably don't like washington post, but that explains a lot.

It's rather like how there are too many lawyer graduates and not enough jobs, and too many nurses. These fields can and do attract students, but the number of available jobs in professional firms, clinics, and research facilities have been slashed.

Basically the argument that they're aren't enough scientists in the country is an excuse employers use to outsource jobs to (cheaper) skilled and educated analysts in other countries. The article you posted even hints at it, but chooses to believe the say so of big pharmaceuticals and other such employers part of the quoted group who are most guilty of this.

And when scientists can't find jobs in science fields, they find jobs in business or on wall street.

The creativity problem in America is not because we aren't investing enough in math and science, or because our education system is failing the kids. It's because the people who say they most value American innovation and research, really don't.

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Wednesday, January 9, 2013 12:23 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Mmmm, I take your point, but I'm not totally convinced, certainly not where the future is considered.

The idea that there are too many nurses is incorrect, as far as I know:
Quote:

Wanted: doctors, nurses and nurse practitioners. Pharmacists. Therapists. And just about everybody else with an advanced degree—or even an interest—in healthcare.

Unemployment overall may be hovering near 10 percent. But a growing and aging population, the promise of wider health insurance coverage, and advances in medical technologies are translating into attractive salaries and signing bonuses for many of the people delivering care.

For the foreseeable future, "healthcare is going to be a great profession for career stability," predicts Susan Salka, chief executive of AMN Healthcare, the nation's largest healthcare staffing company. The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics projects that jobs in the field will grow by more than 20 percent from 2008 through 2018, twice the pace for overall U.S. job growth. More at http://www.usnews.com/education/best-graduate-schools/articles/2011/05
/19/healthcare-jobs-on-the-rise
]
I've heard and read that many different places, so I'm not sure where you get the impression we have too many nurses.

From "Jobs in Chicago": Nursing Jobs On The Rise ( http://www.jobsinchicago.com/nursing_articles/nursing_jobs_rise.cfm])

From "Indiana Daily": Nursing jobs on the rise;Employment opportunities to multiply over next 10 years( http://www.idsnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=58955&search=PEO&sec
tion=search
)

Googling "Nursing jobs on the rise" brings many such articles. Part of the reason some new nurses have trouble finding jobs could be "older nurses have delayed retirement, often because the recession has thrown their spouses out of work." The same article mentions "We’re now in the sixth year in which health-care employment has far outshone every other sector, and college students have read those tea leaves", so although the supply of nurses has spiked unexpectedly right now, that's short term. The article gives scenarios of both a shortage of nurses in 2020 and a glut (tho' the glut was based on Romney winning and undoing the ACA), and the reasons why.

I think we both might be partly right and partly wrong.

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Wednesday, January 9, 2013 12:31 PM

BYTEMITE


Hmm. As I have looked into the nursing issue, it appears that there is a problem with nursing jobs... But it is more like the problems you proposed for other scientific fields in that in this case employers really are demanding more specialized training and more technical savvy from nurses.

However, there is likely to be a boom due to the aging population and nurses needed to care for increased numbers of patients. And your point about nurses not retiring and nursing students seeing opportunity is well taken.

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Wednesday, January 9, 2013 2:32 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!



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