Sign Up | Log In
REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
Here's one for the gun advocates
Saturday, January 12, 2013 8:41 AM
NIKI2
Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...
Quote:The concern in Donnie Herman's voice was clear as day. So was his stress. With two telephones to his ear, he listened to his wife, Melinda, as she fled into an attic of their Loganville home. With her: Her two 9-year-old children and a loaded .38 revolver. In the house: An intruder with a crowbar. On another line was the 911 operator Donnie Herman had called for help. Herman's words to his wife, as he sat helplessly, an hour away from the home, were recorded. "Stay in the attic," he instructed her, calmly. Then he instructed her to do what was fast becoming a realistic possibility. "Melinda -- if he opens up the door, you shoot him! You understand?" Melinda Herman fired a six-shot revolver at the intruder, hitting him five times, in his torso and in his face. Gun rights groups say this shows that law-abiding citizens should be allowed to buy their weapon of choice and as big a magazine or ammunition clip as they like. They remind people that Melinda Herman had only a six-shot revolver. "It's a good thing she wasn't facing more attackers. Otherwise she would have been in trouble and she would have run out of ammunition," said Erich Pratt, director of communications for the Gun Owners of America. http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/10/us/home-invasion-gun-rights/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
Quote:The Hermans' story of self-defense is being used by the National Rifle Association and the Gun Owners of America to make their point to the White House and Congress about gun ownership. But Donnie Herman has told people he's not interested in being a poster boy for anyone. He has not yet responded to CNN's request for an interview with him and his wife. "My wife is a hero. She protected her kids. She did what she was supposed to do as a responsible parent and gun owner," Herman told CNN affiliate WSB. Yet it's unclear whether the benefits of having a loaded and readily available gun in one's home outweigh the drawbacks. "It's more common for an armed homeowner in the United States to be a victim of suicide, homicide, assault or an accidental shooting than it is for that person to shoot an intruder," according to Dr. Arthur Kellermann, a senior health policy analyst at Rand Corporation, a non-partisan think tank. Kellermann led research for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in the 1990s which found that people who have guns in their homes are nearly three times more likely to be a victim of homicide and nearly five times more likely to commit suicide. Experts also say that simply having a gun for self-protection does not guarantee safety. They say the fear is that many people will take part in what might be considered a feeding frenzy by purchasing a gun, but not learn how to properly use it. Sheriff Chapman holds courses for homeowners who want to learn how to safely and properly use a weapon. "Be proficient with it. Be taught how to use it. Train with it," he said. "I often tell people, 'If you don't think that you have what it takes to take a human life then don't bother buying one. Don't waste your money. Don't waste your time," he told CNN. "Don't put it in a drawer and think that's the answer to everything, because it isn't."
Saturday, January 12, 2013 8:43 AM
Quote:Some people are actually claiming the Newtown school shooting was staged by the government and media who are in support of stricter gun control laws. One of those individuals is James Tracy, a tenured associate professor at a Florida university.Video at http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2013/01/11/kth-exposing-newtown-conspiracy-theory/?hpt=hp_t2, if you can stomach it
Saturday, January 12, 2013 12:50 PM
FREMDFIRMA
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: the odds of being harmed by a gun in the home are great than those of successfully defending oneself with one.
Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:18 PM
Quote:Kellermann states that as an emergency room doctor, he noted that the number of gunowners injured by their own gun or that of a family member seemed to greatly outnumber the number of intruders shot by the gun of a homeowner, and therefore he determined to study whether or not this was in fact true. 1986 Study: 54% of firearm-related deaths occurred in the home where the gun was kept 70.5% of these (firearm-related deaths in the home where the gun was kept) involved handguns 0.5% of these (firearm-related deaths in the home where the gun was kept) involved an intruder shot while attempting entry 1.8% of these (firearm-related deaths in the home where the gun was kept) were judged by police as self-defense there were 1.3 times as many accidental firearm-related deaths in the home where the gun was kept as self-protection shootings there were 4.6 times as many criminal firearm-related homicides in the home where the gun was kept as self-protection shootings there were 37 times as many suicides in the home where the gun was kept as self-protection shootings. It noted that for every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four accidental shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides. (J of Trauma, August 1998. pp: 263-267). In 1993, Kellermann responded to the criticism of his 1986 paper with a case-control study[9] of the rates of all homicides in the victim's home in Cleveland, Ohio, Memphis, Tennessee, and Seattle over five years, in homes where a gun was kept versus homes where a gun was not. This study found that 23.9% of homicides occurred in the victim's home 35.8% of the controls (homes where there was not a homicide) kept a firearm in their home 45.4% of all victims of homicides in their home kept a firearm in their home 62% of victims of firearm homicides in their home kept a firearm in their home (correction to original paper) other protective measures, (reinforced doors, deadbolts, burglar alarms, and bars on the windows) were associated with small (about 0.8 times) reductions in risk of homicide in the home after adjusting for other factors (such as a police-report history of violence in the home, a convicted felon in the home, drug or alcohol abuse in the home, race, etc.) there remained an independent 2.7 times increase in risk of homicide, specifically associated with a firearm in the home; this risk was not attributable to any particular "high risk" subgroup(s) identifiable by the above factors but was evident to some degree in all subgroups this risk was essentially entirely attributable to being shot by a family member or intimate acquaintance with a handgun which was kept loaded and unlocked in the house this risk was significantly less than the increased risk due to sociological factors (rental of a home instead of ownership, living alone) but close to that associated with the presence of a convicted felon in the home (see table at right). These results were interpreted by Kellermann as confirming the 1986 finding that, on net, a firearm in the home represents a greater risk overall than the protection it may offer against intruders, either indirectly or by discouraging potential assaults. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Kellermann , with cites
Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:25 PM
MAGONSDAUGHTER
Sunday, January 13, 2013 3:56 PM
CHRISISALL
Sunday, January 13, 2013 11:13 PM
Quote:Originally posted by chrisisall: It stands to reason then, that MOST people cannot use or store GUNS correctly. So, do we remove all these problems (cars, voting, guns) or do we educate & regulate?
Quote:this risk was significantly less than the increased risk due to sociological factors (rental of a home instead of ownership, living alone) but close to that associated with the presence of a convicted felon in the home (see table at right).
Monday, January 14, 2013 6:49 AM
Quote:ETA: For Clarity. (i.e. if you have no value for successful defense whether shots are fired or not to compare it to, then you have no statistical validity to state possession of the weapon makes one less safe than not possessing.)
Quote:...if you have no value for UNsuccessful defense where shots are NOTfired, then you have no statistical validity to state possession of the weapon makes one more safe than not possessing one.
Monday, January 14, 2013 10:12 AM
Tuesday, January 15, 2013 10:43 AM
6IXSTRINGJACK
Tuesday, January 15, 2013 11:27 AM
BYTEMITE
Quote:That said, this ain't *personal*, doll, I still think of you well as a *person*, just virulently disagree with you on this particular topic... something I feel ought to be said cause... Oh hell, In Vino Veritas after all (I happen to be quite, quite tanked at the moment), mostly cause I just wanna hug you and agree to disagree, okay ?
Tuesday, January 15, 2013 11:40 AM
SHINYGOODGUY
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: ...aaaand, you KNEW this was coming: Quote:Some people are actually claiming the Newtown school shooting was staged by the government and media who are in support of stricter gun control laws. One of those individuals is James Tracy, a tenured associate professor at a Florida university.Video at http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2013/01/11/kth-exposing-newtown-conspiracy-theory/?hpt=hp_t2, if you can stomach it Oh, wait, surely PN has already posted this conspiracy theory, I'll bet... Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.
Tuesday, January 15, 2013 12:15 PM
Tuesday, January 15, 2013 2:44 PM
Quote:Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY: Frem, Stats will be skewed on both sides of the argument. It comes down to personal choice and freedom. Those who feel safe, the responsible gun owner, will choose to own and those that don't, will want perceived safeguards.
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 3:13 AM
GEEZER
Keep the Shiny side up
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: Kellermann states that as an emergency room doctor, he noted that the number of gunowners injured by their own gun or that of a family member seemed to greatly outnumber the number of intruders shot by the gun of a homeowner, and therefore he determined to study whether or not this was in fact true.
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 3:59 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Geezer: me asking the guy who was trying to rob me at an ATM to drop his knife and run away. He dropped his knife and ran away.
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 7:20 AM
Quote: Those who feel safe, the responsible gun owner, will choose to own and those that don't, will want perceived safeguards.
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 7:23 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: nobody is talking about banning GUNS, only semi-automatic assault weapons, which I doubt is what he had.
Wednesday, January 16, 2013 11:50 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: My point in all this is just the above. I have little problem with people successfully defending themselves, despite the fact that it seldom actually happens and that the odds of being harmed by a gun in the home are great than those of successfully defending oneself with one.
YOUR OPTIONS
NEW POSTS TODAY
OTHER TOPICS
FFF.NET SOCIAL