REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

More Children Die From Guns; two 3-year-olds and a 7-year-old

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Tuesday, May 7, 2013 03:39
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VIEWED: 1889
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Monday, May 6, 2013 4:40 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Whew, I'm sure glad those childhood-deaths-by-gun stats sure are going down...
Quote:

It seems like an everyday thing now. You get online or turn on the TV and there it is. Another headline of a child/toddler getting hold of a gun, playing with a gun, and dying by a gun.

Children-–babies are dying for no good reasons, while pompous NRA advocates are finding more ways to lobby/buy more pro-gun laws. In Arizona, the state where this child died, Governor Jan Brewer passed two anti-safety gun laws this very week. One demands resale of guns that were brought to community gun buybacks events, by citizens, wanting to help get firearms off the street and out of the hands of wrong people. Brewer ignored those citizens and also passed a law making it illegal to gather or maintain background checks on current gun owners. Yes, you read that right.

At three, many children are still in diapers. How the hell do we live in a country, where a toddler can so easily find a gun, and shoot himself in the face?

3,835 wrongful deaths have occurred by guns, since the Sandy Hook gun massacre. That’s over 75% of the total American deaths in the Iraq war (4,486 U.S. soldiers were killed in Iraq) About 70 of the known gun deaths since Sandy Hook have been children. This means we have basically allowed three more Sandy Hook Massacres to take place, one child at a time.

This week, in Yuma Arizona, 3-year old, Darrien Nez, shot himself after finding a 9mm pistol in his 35-year old grandmother’s backpack ( http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/05/03/arizona-3-year-old-fatally-shoot
s-himself-in-face-with-meth-grandmas-gun/
]).

April 17, in Kansas, a 7-year old, Gavin Brummett, shot himself in the head while firing a semiautomatic handgun. He was on a family shooting trip ( http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/boy-7-shoots-head-family-gun-out
ing-article-1.1318342
]).

Late March, a Florida mom shot her baby daughter dead near a public golf course before turning the handgun on herself, police reported. Jenna Porter, 22, gunned down three-year-old Scarlett and then committed suicide at Hilaman Golf Course, near Tallahassee ( http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/mother-shoots-toddler-dead-fl
orida-golf-article-1.1301079
).

When it’s easier to get a gun in this country than it is to get a library card, something is horribly wrong.


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Monday, May 6, 2013 5:20 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Oh, I missed this one:
Quote:

Florida 13-Year-Old Finds Family Gun, Shoots 6-Year-Old Sister

A 6-year-old Florida girl is in critical condition after being shot by her 13-year-old brother, Florida officials say. According to the Florida Sun-Sentinal, the teen found the gun when the siblings were home alone. Although the incident is still under investigation, the shooting appears to have been accidental, the Sherriff's office told the Sun-Sentinal. http://www.alternet.org/florida-13-year-old-finds-family-gun-shoots-6-
year-old-sister


Of course, the shooter was 13 and the girl hasn't died (yet), so maybe that doesn't count...

Damn. Guns in the home sure are keeping us safer!


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Monday, May 6, 2013 6:21 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...





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Monday, May 6, 2013 10:43 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Oh yeah... the Left LOVES to post body count #'s, when they think it benefits their political views.

( I thought the pressure cooker bomb only killed 3. They then killed the police officer with a gun.)

How many have died this year in auto accidents ? How many drowned in pools, lakes or the ocean ? Where's your clever little cartoon on THOSE 'scores' ?

Children-–babies are dying for no good reasons

We're not talking about Planned Parenthood, are we ?




Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Monday, May 6, 2013 1:05 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

What is rarely mentioned is the number of crimes that are thwarted or prevented by the presence of a firearm without a shot actually being fired.
Unless you can put up stats to show that those instances are numerous enough to validate having a gun in the home, they're meaningless. And we've been through all that before; you cannot. Additionally,
Quote:

Academics such as John Lott and Gary Kleck have long claimed that more firearms reduce crime. But is this really the case? Stripped of machismo bluster, this is at heart a testable claim that merely requires sturdy epidemiological analysis. And this was precisely what Prof Charles Branas and his colleagues at the University of Pennsylvania examined in their 2009 paper ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2759797/]) investigating the link between gun possession and gun assault. They compared 677 cases in which people were injured in a shooting incident with 684 people living in the same area that had not suffered a gun injury. The researchers matched these "controls" for age, race and gender. They found that those with firearms were about 4.5 times more likely to be shot than those who did not carry, utterly belying this oft repeated mantra.

The reasons for this, the authors suggest, are manifold. "A gun may falsely empower its possessor to overreact, instigating and losing otherwise tractable conflicts with similarly armed persons. Along the same lines, individuals who are in possession of a gun may increase their risk of gun assault by entering dangerous environments that they would have normally avoided. Alternatively, an individual may bring a gun to an otherwise gun-free conflict only to have that gun wrested away and turned on them."

This result is not particularly unexpected. Prof David Hemenway of Harvard school of public health has published numerous academic investigations ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23467753]) in this area and found that such claims are rooted far more in myth than fact. While defensive gun use may occasionally occur successfully, it is rare and very much the exception – it doesn't change the fact that actually owning and using a firearm hugely increases the risk of being shot. This is a finding supported by numerous other studies in health policy, including several articles in the New England Journal of Medicine ( http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp1215606?query=featured_home&
amp;
]). Arguments to the contrary are not rooted in reality; the Branas study also found that for individuals who had time to resist and counter in a gun assault, the odds of actually being shot actually increased to 5.45 fold relative to an individual not carrying.

The problem goes deeper than this, however. There's good evidence that the very act of being in possession of a weapon has an unfortunate effect of making us suspect others have one too. This was shown in a 2012 paper by psychologists Prof Jessica Witt and Dr James Brockmole ( http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/xhp/38/5/1159/]), where subjects were given either a replica gun or a neutral object and asked to identify the objects other people were holding.

Subjects in possession of a replica firearm were much more likely to identify a neutral object as a firearm. The erroneous assumption that someone else is armed can and does often end in tragedy.

Indeed, the evidence suggests the very act of being armed changes one's perception of others to a decidedly more paranoid one. Other studies have shown an element of racial priming too, where a black subject is more likely to be assumed to be carrying a weapon. Guns have a curious psychological effect beyond this: a 2006 study by Dr Jennifer Klinesmith and colleagues ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16866740]) showed men exposed to firearms before an experiment had much higher testosterone levels and were three times more likely to engage in aggressive behaviour relative to the subjects not primed with a weapon.

LaPierre's proclamation bears the hallmarks of a litany of misconceptions. Gun aficionados often frame the debate in terms of protection, but it is vital to realise that the vast majority of rape and murder victims are not harmed by nefarious strangers, but by people they know, and often love – friends, family members, lovers. Far from protecting people and keeping families safe, the sad truth is that firearms are often used in episodes of domestic violence. The John Hopkins centre for gun policy research has some sobering facts on this; women living in a home with one or more guns were three times more likely to be murdered; for women who had been abused by their partner, their risk of being murdered rose fivefold if the partner owned a gun ( http://www.jhsph.edu/research/centers-and-institutes/johns-hopkins-cen
ter-for-gun-policy-and-research/publications/IPV_Guns.pdf
]).

Nor did guns make the women safer; women who purchased guns were 50% more likely to be killed by an intimate partner. So LaPierre's "good woman with a gun" is actually, it seems, putting herself in danger.

Viewed in this light, the NRA's insistence that rapes can be prevented with firearms or that teachers should be armed appear even more stupid than they already seemed. It is worth remembering that just as America leads the world in gun ownership, so too does it lead the world in gun homicide, with 11,000 to 12,000 murders committed by firearms each year. The tired old rationalisation that guns protect people is frankly contradicted by the evidence. The inescapable conclusion is that gun ownership makes everyone less safe. The logic the NRA espouses is perverse and transparently self-serving – the solution to gun crimes is not more guns, and no amount of rhetorical dexterity can surmount this fact. If the US is to have a truly honest discussion about its gun culture, it needs to be rooted in fact rather than fantasy, and the sound and fury from the NRA should be dismissed with the contempt it deserves. http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/blog/2013/mar/25/guns-protection-nat
ional-rifle-association


It's a comforting thought that brandishing a weapon has prevented crime; unfortunately, there is no verifiable proof of it. We've argued (not debated, because those on one side, who are against ANY AND ALL curbs on gun ownership, seem incapable of getting beyond (or not going BACK TO) "You want to take away all our guns", so it always devolves into a fight) about the idea that people showing but not firing a gun has kept many people safe. There is no proof of such, and the pro-gun folk have the money and power to keep us from doing enough research to know anything for sure.

Apparently you're brand new to FFF and RWED; I wish you welcome. The predictable reactions to what I posted above will most likely show you how impossible it is to have civil debate on this issue here.


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Monday, May 6, 2013 5:57 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!




5,000 babies were murdered in Amerika today...by medical doctors...each doctor paid $2-million/year salary by the govt. The babies are murdered by drowing in toilets or stabbed with scissors, or strangled. Their body parts then used for lunch.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=54409&p=1#9
35184



Eric Holder and Obama gave 20,000 guns to the Mexican mafia, used to kill 1,000s of cops, prosecutors, judges, politicians, journalists and hot models


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Tuesday, May 7, 2013 2:11 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


I'm sure all those children with guns play a big part of preventing home invasions as well as being a useful back up when there comes to the forming of militias to overthrow tyanny.

Well done 2nd amendment.

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Tuesday, May 7, 2013 2:36 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by DOMOKUN1:

How exactly are the wealthy pro-gun crowd preventing anybody from doing research?




By outlawing it, quite explicitly.

Quote:

Over the past two decades, the NRA has not only been able to stop gun control laws, but even debate on the subject. The Centers for Disease Control funds research into the causes of death in the United States, including firearms — or at least it used to. In 1996, after various studies funded by the agency found that guns can be dangerous, the gun lobby mobilized to punish the agency. First, Republicans tried to eliminate entirely the National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, the bureau responsible for the research. When that failed, Rep. Jay Dickey, a Republican from Arkansas, successfully pushed through an amendment that stripped $2.6 million from the CDC’s budget (the amount it had spent on gun research in the previous year) and outlawed research on gun control with a provision that reads: “None of the funds made available for injury prevention and control at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention may be used to advocate or promote gun control.”


http://www.salon.com/2012/07/25/the_nras_war_on_gun_science/



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Tuesday, May 7, 2013 2:59 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

Don't get me wrong, certain controls indeed have their place - not everyone should be armed, of course not!
The only people you'll find here who agree with you are on "The Left", and hated for it, and the other side is firmly convinced we're lying through our teeth, with our True Agenda taking away everyone's guns.

Of course studies can be biased Seeing who funds them is a start at ferreting out their bias. This is all stuff we've discussed here before; suffice it to say, enough VERIFIABLE studies have been done to show that guns in the home increase danger, not decrease it, in my opinion. If we had availability of proper data, I don't think it would even be an issue at this point.
Quote:

How exactly are the wealthy pro-gun crowd preventing anybody from doing research?
Are you kidding? If you're not, I'll provide cites, but we've been through this before. Congress has passed LAWS for their NRA masters denying people the ability to gather data, much less do viable research on the issue.

Oh, thanx Mike, I hadn't gotten that far. There's far, far more, but that's a start.

Reminder: I DO NOT WANT TO TAKE AWAY ANYONE'S GUNS, remember? I argue for SOME logical restrictions to the number of guns out there and who is allowed to have them. And I certainly argue against children having guns of ANY kind!



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Tuesday, May 7, 2013 3:10 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Oh yeah... the Left LOVES to post body count #'s, when they think it benefits their political views.





Yeah, you'd NEVER bring up the nearly 3000 killed on 9/11, or the Kurds killed by Saddam. Would you?

So now that you've confirmed you're on "the Left", please get off my side.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Tuesday, May 7, 2013 3:19 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Yeah, you'd NEVER bring up the nearly 3000 killed on 9/11...



Nope. That would be something for Niki to conveniently forget, along with the Oklahoma City bombing.





"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Tuesday, May 7, 2013 3:39 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Yeah, you'd NEVER bring up the nearly 3000 killed on 9/11...



Nope. That would be something for Niki to conveniently forget, along with the Oklahoma City bombing.










Who forgot? As Rappy says, and you seem to agree, people die every day. What's the big deal? It really doesn't matter at all if they die by drowning in the family pool or the bathtub, or by gunshots from friend or foe, or at the hands of some mad bomber, or by toxic gas or chemical weapons like they did in West, Texas, or by a truck bomb, or at the hands of a Mexican drug cartel, or at the hands of a mob in Benghazi. As y'all are so fond of pointing out, it happens, so why worry about it?



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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