REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

President Trump: good, bad, and ugly

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 10:50
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 2724
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Monday, January 23, 2017 12:13 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Waiting for some real news....

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Monday, January 23, 2017 12:35 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


NOT REAL NEWS

Trump gave a speech to the CIA (fact) that was described as 'bizarre' (not fact). I listened to it all the way through, and it didn't seem that bizarre to me (personal opinion). He told the CIA that their job was to destroy ISIS (fact). What I read into that was that he was telling them whatever jobs they had before - topple Gaddafi, get rid of Yanukovych, Assad must go! by any means necessary (even if it means cozying up to ISIS) - that was all over now (personal interpretation). Their job was to get rid of ISIS, and they would get so much support for that, they would think it was too much (fact).

But then, it was a Trump speech. And those are just words. I need to see what he does.




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Monday, January 23, 2017 9:50 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Ethics lawyers to sue Trump over foreign payments

A group including former White House ethics attorneys will file a lawsuit on Monday accusing President Donald Trump of allowing his businesses to accept payments from foreign governments, in violation of the U.S. Constitution.

The lawsuit, brought by the Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, will allege that the Constitution's emoluments clause forbids payments to Trump's businesses. It will seek a court order forbidding Trump from accepting such payments, said Deepak Gupta, one of the lawyers working on the case.

Trump does business with countries like China, India, Indonesia and the Philippines, the group noted in a statement.

"When Trump the president sits down to negotiate trade deals with these countries, the American people will have no way of knowing whether he will also be thinking about the profits of Trump the businessman," it said.

A Trump representative referred questions to a law firm representing the president on ethics matters.

"We do not comment on our clients or the work we do for them," said the representative of the firm, Morgan Lewis & Bockius.

The case is part of a wave of litigation expected to be filed against Trump by liberal advocacy groups. It will be filed in a Manhattan federal court, Gupta said, and attorneys for the plaintiffs will include Richard Painter, a former ethics lawyer in Republican President George W. Bush's White House.

The impending lawsuit was earlier reported by the New York Times.

Trump's son Eric Trump, an executive vice president of the Trump Organization, told the Times on Sunday that the company had taken more steps than required by law to avoid any possible legal exposure, such as agreeing to donate any profits collected at Trump-owned hotels that come from foreign government guests to the U.S. Treasury.

"This is purely harassment for political gain," Trump told the newspaper.


http://www.reuters.com/article/us-trump-ethics-lawsuit-idUSKBN15701V



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake


According to you GSTRING, if I discuss something I'm over-reacting. If I DON'T discuss something, I'm hiding.

You see? You're a troll. YOU don't want to discuss the subject, all you want to do is look for an excuse for personal attacks. So the reason why I'm NOT discussing this with you further is because (1) You've been demonstrated to be wrong about five ti

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Monday, January 23, 2017 11:18 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by G:

Another big plus: He may be responsible for blowing up both major political parties.



You're just figuring this out now. It's the single biggest reason I voted for him.


Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, January 23, 2017 11:43 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I agree. Trump is a loose cannon. He has horrified career Democrat AND Republican politicians and wonks. He's also brought out Dem AND Republican voters who have not voted in years... if ever. That's a good thing, IMHO, but he also needs a close eye on what he's doing. Protests, demonstrations, calls and letters to your Congressperson, and letters to the editor and social activism are in order if he does something stupid.



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake


According to you GSTRING, if I discuss something I'm over-reacting. If I DON'T discuss something, I'm hiding.

You see? You're a troll. YOU don't want to discuss the subject, all you want to do is look for an excuse for personal attacks. So the reason why I'm NOT discussing this with you further is because (1) You've been demonstrated to be wrong about five ti

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Monday, January 23, 2017 12:24 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
NOT REAL NEWS

Trump gave a speech to the CIA (fact) that was described as 'bizarre' (not fact). I listened to it all the way through, and it didn't seem that bizarre to me



His complaining about press reports that his crowds during his inauguration were not the most ever, while he was standing in front of the wall of hero's

didn't seem bizarre to you???

didn't seem childish to you???

didn't seem thin skinned to you???

didn't seem as thought the importance of his meeting the CIA in an unifying manner was lost to him because he was arguing with the press and lying about the numbers, didn't seem bizarre to you???

Of course it doesn't. Because you are a commie troll who supports dictatorships.

____________________________________________

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Monday, January 23, 2017 1:04 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Trump Signs 3 Executive Orders:
(1)Withdraws From TPP
(2) Freezes Federal Hiring
(3) Limits Overseas Abortion Funding



(1) GREAT!
(2) mkay
(3) I guess ... (A bone to the Xtian crowd maybe?)

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-01-23/trump-signs-3-executive-order
s-withdraws-tpp-freezes-federal-hiring-limits-overseas
-



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake


According to you GSTRING, if I discuss something I'm over-reacting. If I DON'T discuss something, I'm hiding.

You see? You're a troll. YOU don't want to discuss the subject, all you want to do is look for an excuse for personal attacks. So the reason why I'm NOT discussing this with you further is because (1) You've been demonstrated to be wrong about five ti

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Monday, January 23, 2017 1:47 PM

RIVERLOVE


The Trump Administration's "war" with the press is stupid. It's not winnable. The press always has the last word.

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Monday, January 23, 2017 3:01 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
NOT REAL NEWS
Trump gave a speech to the CIA (fact) that was described as 'bizarre' (not fact). I listened to it all the way through, and it didn't seem that bizarre to me ...

Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
His complaining about press reports that his crowds during his inauguration were not the most ever, while he was standing in front of the wall of hero's
didn't seem bizarre to you???

WHAT TRUMP SAID
Quote:

The unnamed television network, he noted, estimated a turnout of 250,000 people — a figure he argued was way too low.

“Now, that's not bad. But it's a lie,” he said. “We had 250,000 people literally around in the little ball we constructed.” In other words, 250,000 people had been given tickets to the swearing-in ceremony, which is what the Joint Congressional Committee for Inaugural Ceremonies told CNN.

It's looks like a legitimate complaint. 250,000 is far too low an estimate: ie FAKE NEWS. Trump SHOULD be complaining about FAKE NEWS.

AND SO SHOULD YOU.




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Monday, January 23, 2017 3:08 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
NOT REAL NEWS
Trump gave a speech to the CIA (fact) that was described as 'bizarre' (not fact). I listened to it all the way through, and it didn't seem that bizarre to me ...

Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
His complaining about press reports that his crowds during his inauguration were not the most ever, while he was standing in front of the wall of hero's
didn't seem bizarre to you???

WHAT TRUMP SAID
Quote:

The unnamed television network, he noted, estimated a turnout of 250,000 people — a figure he argued was way too low.

“Now, that's not bad. But it's a lie,” he said. “We had 250,000 people literally around in the little ball we constructed.” In other words, 250,000 people had been given tickets to the swearing-in ceremony, which is what the Joint Congressional Committee for Inaugural Ceremonies told CNN.

It's looks like a legitimate complaint. 250,000 is far too low an estimate: ie FAKE NEWS. Trump SHOULD be complaining about FAKE NEWS.

AND SO SHOULD YOU.



As I said. Your being a commie troll who belongs to a dictators propaganda machine, would prevent you from understanding what was wrong with what Trump did. And your post shows you don't.

____________________________________________

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Monday, January 23, 2017 4:53 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Your (sic) being a commie troll who belongs to a dictators (sic) propaganda machine ...
'YOUR' English is slipping. You mean I'm a troll because I don't sign on to FAKE NEWS - like the estimate only 250,000 people showed up to Trump's inauguration? Let me ask you, THUGGER, if I'm a troll for pointing out FAKE NEWS, what does that make you when you endorse it?




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Monday, January 23, 2017 5:00 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

Your being a commie troll who belongs to a dictators propaganda machine ...
'YOUR' English is slipping. You mean I'm a troll because I don't sign on to FAKE NEWS - like the estimate only 250,000 people showed up to Trump's inauguration? Let me ask you, THUGGER, if I'm a troll for pointing out FAKE NEWS, what does that make you when you endorse it?



What are you talking about? Try to stay on point. You do that by posting objectively not subjectively.


Let me help you out. Here is what we were talking about.



Originally posted by 1kiki:
NOT REAL NEWS

Trump gave a speech to the CIA (fact) that was described as 'bizarre' (not fact). I listened to it all the way through, and it didn't seem that bizarre to me


Me responding to you.

His complaining about press reports that his crowds during his inauguration were not the most ever, while he was standing in front of the wall of hero's

didn't seem bizarre to you???

didn't seem childish to you???

didn't seem thin skinned to you???

didn't seem as thought the importance of his meeting the CIA in an unifying manner was lost to him because he was arguing with the press and lying about the numbers, didn't seem bizarre to you???

Of course it doesn't. Because you are a commie troll who supports dictatorships.

____________________________________________
____________________________________________

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Monday, January 23, 2017 5:03 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


been there, done that -
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
NOT REAL NEWS
Trump gave a speech to the CIA (fact) that was described as 'bizarre' (not fact). I listened to it all the way through, and it didn't seem that bizarre to me ...

Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
His complaining about press reports that his crowds during his inauguration were not the most ever, while he was standing in front of the wall of hero's
didn't seem bizarre to you???

WHAT TRUMP SAID
Quote:

The unnamed television network, he noted, estimated a turnout of 250,000 people — a figure he argued was way too low.

“Now, that's not bad. But it's a lie,” he said. “We had 250,000 people literally around in the little ball we constructed.” In other words, 250,000 people had been given tickets to the swearing-in ceremony, which is what the Joint Congressional Committee for Inaugural Ceremonies told CNN.

It's looks like a legitimate complaint. 250,000 is far too low an estimate: ie FAKE NEWS. Trump SHOULD be complaining about FAKE NEWS.

AND SO SHOULD YOU.




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?




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Monday, January 23, 2017 5:06 PM

THGRRI


You still don't get it 1KIKI.



His complaining about press reports that his crowds during his inauguration were not the most ever, while he was standing in front of the wall of hero's

didn't seem bizarre to you???

didn't seem childish to you???

didn't seem thin skinned to you???

didn't seem as thought the importance of his meeting the CIA in an unifying manner was lost to him because he was arguing with the press and lying about the numbers, didn't seem bizarre to you???

Of course it doesn't. Because you are a commie troll who supports dictatorships.
____________________________________________

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Monday, January 23, 2017 6:26 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
What are you talking about? Try to stay on point. You do that by posting objectively not subjectively. Let me help you out. Here is what we were talking about.

been there, done that -
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
NOT REAL NEWS
Trump gave a speech to the CIA (fact) that was described as 'bizarre' (not fact). I listened to it all the way through, and it didn't seem that bizarre to me ...

Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
His complaining about press reports that his crowds during his inauguration were not the most ever, while he was standing in front of the wall of hero's
didn't seem bizarre to you???

WHAT TRUMP SAID
Quote:

The unnamed television network, he noted, estimated a turnout of 250,000 people — a figure he argued was way too low.

“Now, that's not bad. But it's a lie,” he said. “We had 250,000 people literally around in the little ball we constructed.” In other words, 250,000 people had been given tickets to the swearing-in ceremony, which is what the Joint Congressional Committee for Inaugural Ceremonies told CNN.
It looks like a legitimate complaint. 250,000 is far too low an estimate: ie FAKE NEWS. Trump SHOULD be complaining about FAKE NEWS.

AND SO SHOULD YOU.




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?




I put the salient words in large font to accommodate your reading deficiencies. PLEASE NOTE: THIS IS THE THIRD TIME I'VE POSTED THIS QUOTE.
You're welcome.

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Monday, January 23, 2017 8:42 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
He's also brought out Dem AND Republican voters who have not voted in years... if ever.



Did he?
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/11/11/politics/popular-vote-turnout-2016/

If so, there wuz a greater number uv previous voterz who stayed home. A reazonable propozition, but can you proov it? Also reazonable to say Hillary cauzed them to stay home!


----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Monday, January 23, 2017 8:47 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr


About the ugly - Trump iz alredy starting the Prezidential ajing prosess. And Kellyanne Conway, hiz 'advizor'. Especially her, looking at her appearens on Meet The Press yesterday.

Thats just 2 dayz in! Wut will they look like in a month? It'll be like The Picture uv Dorian Gray.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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Tuesday, January 24, 2017 1:44 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Trump, repeating an assertion that lacks supporting evidence, told a meeting of congressional leaders Monday that he would have won the popular vote in November if not for voter fraud.

Trump used the first 10 minutes of the meeting to say that he would have won more votes than Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton if 3 million to 5 million illegal immigrants had not cast ballots, according to the people familiar with the conversation.

With 5 million fraudulent votes, there would be hundreds of District Attorneys filing thousands of indictments for fraud. Never happened. Trump's got nothing, but he said it anyway because that is how he rolls.

www.marketwatch.com/story/donald-trump-repeats-false-claim-of-voter-fr
aud-2017-01-23

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Tuesday, January 24, 2017 4:50 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
...repeating an assertion that lacks supporting evidence...



He'd fit right in here in the RWED...

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, January 24, 2017 5:06 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by JO753:
Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
He's also brought out Dem AND Republican voters who have not voted in years... if ever.



Did he?
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/11/11/politics/popular-vote-turnout-2016/

If so, there wuz a greater number uv previous voterz who stayed home. A reazonable propozition, but can you proov it? Also reazonable to say Hillary cauzed them to stay home! m



https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/voter-turnout-fell-especially-in-
states-that-clinton-won
/

If you only read the titles of articles, you're not getting the entire story. This article is titled "Voter turnout fell especially in states that clinton won".

But in the second paragraph it says that 1.4 million more people voted in the 2016 election than in the 2012 election.

What this tells me is that a lot of people who weren't registered to vote signed up to vote this time around, even though more people who were already signed up decided not to vote this time around.

Whether that was because people were excited about voting for Trump or would do anything to keep Hillary from being president can only be speculated.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, January 24, 2017 8:32 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
...repeating an assertion that lacks supporting evidence...



He'd fit right in here in the RWED...

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Trump is in a special class, because when he says it, it changes his and America’s reputation. When we say it, nothing changes. Our reputations have no significance because we are both anonymous and weightless. For example, if I used my real name (Alan Tudyk or Summer Glau) that would be a big deal having consequences. I might not be invited to the next Comicon Firefly reunion! When I go by “second” nothing changes.

What Does It Take to Finally Call a Lie a Lie? We Have an Answer.
www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/01/what-does-it-take-finally-call-
lie-lie-we-have-answer


The New York Times has called one of President Trump's lies a lie. The word isn't used in the text of the story, but it is used in the headline:

Trump Repeats Lie About Popular Vote in Meeting With Lawmakers
By Michael D. Shear and Emmarie Huetteman JAN. 23.2017

In this case, Trump said that 3-5 million illegal immigrants had voted for Hillary Clinton, and he would have won the popular vote if not for that. Why was that judged a lie? Presumably because Trump has said it before and it's been widely exposed as flatly untrue. Trump surely knows this, which means he's telling a knowing falsehood, aka a lie.

This is a reasonable metric. The problem with branding something a lie is that you have to be sure the speaker knew it was wrong. Otherwise it's just ignorance or a mistake. But in Trump's case, it's often clear that he knows he's lying. When he says the crowd at his inauguration was over a million, it's clear that he has no basis for this. He's just making up a number. When he says millions of illegal immigrants voted, he knows it's false because a legion of reporters have told him it's false. When he says the unemployment rate is 42 percent, it might be a mistake the first time. But the tenth time? It's a deliberate lie.

Beyond this, I'll repeat a 3-part test I offered a few years ago that I find useful for judging how deceptive a statement is:

1) What was the speaker trying to imply? This is necessarily a judgment call, but it's what gets us away from a single-minded focus on "lying" and instead focuses our attention on how badly a speaker is trying to mislead us.

2) What would it take to state things accurately? This is the most important part of the exercise. Without getting deep in the weeds (nobody expects politicians to speak in white paper-ese), what would it take to restate things reasonably accurately?

3) How much would accuracy damage the speaker's point? Obviously, if accuracy dents the speaker's point only a bit, not much harm has been done. If it demolishes the speaker's point completely, it's as bad as an actual lie even if you can somehow spin it as technically true.

In this case, Trump was (a) stating that millions of illegal immigrants voted, (b) the only way to restate this accurately is to say that only a tiny handful of illegal immigrants voted, and (c) this completely demolishes Trump's point. It's obviously a 10 out of 10, and since Trump is aware of this, that makes it an egregious lie.
Why do I think this test is useful? The nickel version is that it's a check on my emotional response. When I go through these three steps, sometimes I find things worse than I thought and other times I find them more benign. Give it a try.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, January 24, 2017 8:55 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Beyond Futile Outrage
January 24, 2017
http://onlyagame.typepad.com/only_a_game/2017/01/beyond-futile-outrage
.html


Why does our world suddenly seem to be filled with outrage, yet nothing changes? When our moral intuitions provoke anger, we voice our hatred or cynicism online and somehow feel that is enough. Nothing changes, since we have lost a common ethical backdrop against which we can adequately even discuss our ethics, let alone bring about any kind of change. Of the three ways of conducting moral thought, we have abandoned one of them, and corrupted the other two, thus our moral intuitions have lost their force, since the context that gave them meaning has broken down. The result is anger against other people who do not share our values, with no possibility of a productive dialogue that can bring about a new state of affairs. This is the paralysis brought on by outrage culture.

To bring about changes requires a common standard, and the problem with contemporary ethical thought is that we do not understand our moral mythos well enough to maintain a shared basis for judgement. As moral psychologists have reported, the tendency is for us to have an emotional response to a situation (e.g. outrage), then afterwards to dress it up in justifications (e.g. demonisation of a particular identity) – what Jonathan Haidt waggishly dubbed ‘the emotional dog and his rational tail’. However, I break with the psychologists who advance this theory at the conclusions they draw from it, which amount to perilous assumption that moral philosophy has no role, as well as questioning their research methods, which are inadequate to most of the conclusions being drawn.

More at http://onlyagame.typepad.com/only_a_game/2017/01/beyond-futile-outrage
.html


The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, January 24, 2017 9:25 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


I don't necessarily believe that the 3-5 million illegals voting is not true. I really don't understand why we don't require IDs to vote. It really would clear up 99% of these things once and for all.

Some people are resourceful and always find a way against these sorts of things, but requiring an ID that was checked against the voter list would clear up any doubts anybody has about massive scale voter/election fraud. It always seems to be only the Democrats who are against such a rule. I find that terribly hilarious since it was largely the Democrats who made liquor store employees so terrified of being fined that I get carded much more often than I did when I was 21 years old.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, January 24, 2017 9:33 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Why does our world suddenly seem to be filled with outrage, yet nothing changes? When our moral intuitions provoke anger, we voice our hatred or cynicism online and somehow feel that is enough.




This isn't new, or "sudden". I started voicing my cynicism right here more than 10 years ago about GWB and back then there were a lot more people in the RWED. And if you didn't notice this going on the last 8 years because you were happy with Obama, you simply were surrounded by your own echo chamber and didn't notice that it was going on.

As to why nobody does anything anymore, I think it's the Social Media culture to blame. Everybody is a political analyist online now. Facebook is notorious for this. I stopped using that site completely.

What I noticed about Facebook, and the NUMBER 1 reason why nobody should use Facebook, is that people talk to people they actually know and even love there the same way they would talk anonymously on a website like this one. It's terrible. People who would never talk the way they do to each other online seem to have no filter when it comes to voicing their political beliefs on Facebook. After this terrible election cycle, many friendships and even marriages have been destroyed. That wouldn't have happened 15 years ago before the days of myspace and beyond.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, January 24, 2017 9:39 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I don't necessarily believe that the 3-5 million illegals voting is not true. I really don't understand why we don't require IDs to vote. It really would clear up 99% of these things once and for all.

Some people are resourceful and always find a way against these sorts of things, but requiring an ID that was checked against the voter list would clear up any doubts anybody has about massive scale voter/election fraud. It always seems to be only the Democrats who are against such a rule. I find that terribly hilarious since it was largely the Democrats who made liquor store employees so terrified of being fined that I get carded much more often than I did when I was 21 years old.

Since 2008, Republican controlled states have passed measures to make it harder for Americans — particularly blacks — to vote. These measures include cuts to early voting, voter ID laws, and purges of voter rolls. Would 6ixStringJack care to speculate why only Republicans are doing this? Care to give a number of illegals who voted before 2008? 12 is my number. Care to give a number of blacks turned away from voting after 2008? 12,000,000 is my number. Is 12 less than 12,000,000? Do the exercise with your numbers and see what you get.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, January 24, 2017 10:26 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:


I don't necessarily believe that the 3-5 million illegals voting is not true. I really don't understand why we don't require IDs to vote. It really would clear up 99% of these things once and for all.

Some people are resourceful and always find a way against these sorts of things, but requiring an ID that was checked against the voter list would clear up any doubts anybody has about massive scale voter/election fraud. It always seems to be only the Democrats who are against such a rule. I find that terribly hilarious since it was largely the Democrats who made liquor store employees so terrified of being fined that I get carded much more often than I did when I was 21 years old.- SIX

Since 2008, Republican controlled states have passed measures to make it harder for Americans — particularly blacks — to vote. These measures include cuts to early voting, voter ID laws, and purges of voter rolls. Would 6ixStringJack care to speculate why only Republicans are doing this? Care to give a number of illegals who voted before 2008? 12 is my number. Care to give a number of blacks turned away from voting after 2008? 12,000,000 is my number. Is 12 less than 12,000,000? Do the exercise with your numbers and see what you get.- SECOND

Care to back that up with evidence? Or is this just more fact-free opining?

I'm for picture ID laws, and I like the concept of the state paying the fee for such ID acquisition in order to make it fair. Instead of holding a "cattle drive" for a few weeks every four years, why doesn't the Democratic Party press on steadily with voter ID and voter registration efforts for all of the years in between elections? Yanno, assist shut-ins, the disabled, those working three jobs etc to get the ID that they need, and then get registered?

AFA voter rolls ... how they are sometimes handled is a crime (i.e. Katherine Harris, FL) and any State Scy doing such a hatchet job on people's right to vote should be able to be sued and prosecuted.



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake


According to you GSTRING, if I discuss something I'm over-reacting. If I DON'T discuss something, I'm hiding.

You see? You're a troll. YOU don't want to discuss the subject, all you want to do is look for an excuse for personal attacks. So the reason why I'm NOT discussing this with you further is because (1) You've been demonstrated to be wrong about five ti

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Tuesday, January 24, 2017 10:41 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

This isn't new, or "sudden". I started voicing my cynicism right here more than 10 years ago about GWB and back then there were a lot more people in the RWED. And if you didn't notice this going on the last 8 years because you were happy with Obama, you simply were surrounded by your own echo chamber and didn't notice that it was going on.

How is Trump running the government?

“He’s running it much like he’d run a Fortune 500 company,” Texas Agriculture Commissioner Sid Miller told Politico after his meetings with Reince Priebus and Steve Bannon. “He’s finding the best people he can and he’s going to turn the reins over to them to see what they can do. He wants them to perform.”

Trump, it’s worth emphasizing, has never run a Fortune 500 corporation.

No board of directors of any company has at any point even considered hiring Trump as a CEO.

He did have a stint running a publicly traded company that he started during the 1990s stock market mania, and it turned out (like his fake college) to be a scam, in which he enriched himself at shareholder expense.

It is true, however, that many big companies are run along these kinds of decentralized lines.

And it’s easy to see why Trump, assisted by a core team of Priebus, Bannon, and Jared Kushner — none of whom have any experience working in government or running a successful publicly traded company — would come up with this facile and deeply flawed analogy between the two kinds of undertakings.

But you can’t run the government the way you would run a publicly traded conglomerate for roughly the same reason actually successful CEOs don’t host reality television shows — it’s not the same thing.

More at www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/1/24/14346270/government-business
-chaos

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Tuesday, January 24, 2017 12:03 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


The standard method of authoritarianization goes like this: you appoint loyalists into the judiciary and security agencies, move on to defenestrate critics within your party, neutralize the media through accusation and delegitimization, and single out individuals for special scorn.

Since declaring his candidacy in June 2015, Trump has appeared to be taking pages out of the authoritarianization playbook.

He has attacked 305 people and entities big and small, according to a running tally by The New York Times, often astonishingly infantile tirades that have nonetheless destroyed political rivals, brought others to heel, alarmed foreign powers, and plain annoyed a lot of people.
www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/01/28/upshot/donald-trump-twitter-ins
ults.html


He is now intimidating Washington power centers into accepting his one-man leadership—the intelligence agencies, the Federal Reserve, and Congress.
www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-01-05/trump-s-systematic-attack-o
n-u-s-institutions


So slowly are these steps taken that it is hard to discern when the break with democracy actually occurs. That is one reason why its insidiousness poses one of the most significant threats to democracy in the twenty-first century.

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Tuesday, January 24, 2017 12:46 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
The standard method of authoritarianization goes like this: you appoint loyalists into the judiciary and security agencies, move on to defenestrate critics within your party, neutralize the media through accusation and delegitimization, and single out individuals for special scorn.

Since declaring his candidacy in June 2015, Trump has appeared to be taking pages out of the authoritarianization playbook.

He has attacked 305 people and entities big and small, according to a running tally by The New York Times, often astonishingly infantile tirades that have nonetheless destroyed political rivals, brought others to heel, alarmed foreign powers, and plain annoyed a lot of people.
www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/01/28/upshot/donald-trump-twitter-ins
ults.html


He is now intimidating Washington power centers into accepting his one-man leadership—the intelligence agencies, the Federal Reserve, and Congress.
www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-01-05/trump-s-systematic-attack-o
n-u-s-institutions


So slowly are these steps taken that it is hard to discern when the break with democracy actually occurs. That is one reason why its insidiousness poses one of the most significant threats to democracy in the twenty-first century.



Sounds like Putin's playbook

____________________________________________

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Tuesday, January 24, 2017 1:24 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
Since 2008, Republican controlled states have passed measures to make it harder for Americans — particularly blacks — to vote. These measures include cuts to early voting, voter ID laws, and purges of voter rolls. Would 6ixStringJack care to speculate why only Republicans are doing this? Care to give a number of illegals who voted before 2008? 12 is my number. Care to give a number of blacks turned away from voting after 2008? 12,000,000 is my number. Is 12 less than 12,000,000? Do the exercise with your numbers and see what you get.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly



I never understood why requiring an ID to vote keeps blacks from voting. I've already said that everyone should be able to get a State ID for free, and only have to pay for an actual Drivers license.

I only mentioned requiring IDs. Not cutting early voting and purging voter rolls.

Stay on topic.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, January 24, 2017 1:28 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by second:
How is Trump running the government?



Not sure why you quoted me on this one. I don't see how that reply pertains at all to what I was talking about.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, January 24, 2017 4:49 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:

Originally posted by second:
How is Trump running the government?



Not sure why you quoted me on this one. I don't see how that reply pertains at all to what I was talking about.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Cynically, Trump claims he will run the government like a business. Trump promised 6ix a good job (6ix is an unemployed Ne'er-do-well) and promised second a huge tax cut (second is the 1%). We can judge Trump by how soon he meets these goals and the cost to meet them. Since he is running the USA like a business, we need to also look at the National Debt. He could meet every goal almost instantaneously if he expands the National Debt very fast. But that would not be business-like, would it? You can read about these kinds of trade-offs between goals and expenditures at "Donald Trump is about to find out you can’t run government like a business"
www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/1/24/14346270/government-business
-chaos

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Saturday, January 28, 2017 11:38 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I see SECOND is up to her pointless, bilious whinging again.
Quote:

Cynically, Trump claims he will run the government like a business. Trump promised 6ix a good job (6ix is an unemployed Ne'er-do-well) and promised second a huge tax cut (second is the 1%). We can judge Trump by how soon he meets these goals and the cost to meet them.- SECONDRATE


There has been such a flurry of executive orders, it's hard to keep track of them all! And I'll bet the Demorats who were cheering Obama's discovery of "Executive Orders" are now wishing that they had never been invoked. So, just as a lesson for the future: Whatever powers you grant to a President that you like will be invoked... with interest! ... by the President that you don't like. So be careful what you wish for!

Border Security and Immigration Enforcement Improvements -- January 25
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2017/images/01/28/border.security.and.imm
igration.enforcement.improvements.pdf



Enhancing Public Safety in the Interior of the United States -- January 25
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2017/images/01/28/enhancing.public.safety
.in.the.interior.of.the.united.states.pdf


Expediting Environmental Reviews and Approvals for High Priority Infrastructure Projects -- January 24

Minimizing the Economic Burden of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act Pending Repeal -- January 20

Presidential memorandums
Streamlining Permitting and Reducing Regulatory Burdens for Domestic Manufacturing -- January 24

Regarding Construction of the Dakota Access Pipeline -- January 24

Regarding Construction of the Keystone XL Pipeline -- January 24

Regarding Construction of American Pipelines -- January 24

Regarding the Hiring Freeze -- January 23

Related: Memorandum from Sandy, the acting OMB chief, on the federal civilian hiring freeze -- January 25

Regarding Withdrawal of the United States from the Trans-Pacific Partnership Negotiations and Agreement -- January 23

Regarding the Mexico City Policy -- January 23

Memorandum for the Heads of Executive Departments and Agencies (from Chief of Staff Reince Priebus) -- January 20
http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/28/politics/trump-executive-actions-orders/
index.html





-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake


According to you GSTRING, if I discuss something I'm over-reacting. If I DON'T discuss something, I'm hiding.

You see? You're a troll. YOU don't want to discuss the subject, all you want to do is look for an excuse for personal attacks. So the reason why I'm NOT discussing this with you further is because (1) You've been demonstrated to be wrong about five ti

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Sunday, January 29, 2017 9:20 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Yanno, with all of the SUBSTANTIVE criticism that one could bring to bear on Trump's Presidency (so far) I'm surprise people are still riled up by fake news.

Well, where to begin on the real news? There's so much to process!

Trump is being pretty much what I thought he would be: A loose cannon. Naturally, I agree with some Executive Orders/ Memoranda, and disagree with some. Starting with the one I agree with:

Quote:

Presidential Memorandum Regarding Withdrawal of the United States from the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP)

It is the policy of my Administration to represent the American people and their financial well-being in all negotations, particularly the American worker, and to create fair and economically beneficial trade deals that serve their interests. Additionally, in order to ensure these outcomes, it is the intention of my Administration to deal directly with individual countries on a one-on-one (or bilateral) basis in negotiating future trade deals. Trade with other nations is, and always will be, of paramount importance to my Administration and to me, as President of the United States. Based on these principles, and by the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, I hereby direct you to withdraw the United States as a signatory to the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), to permanently withdraw the United States from TPP negotiations, and to begin pursuing, wherever possible, bilateral trade negotiations to promote American industry, protect American workers, and raise American wages.

You are directed to provide written notification to the Parties and to the Depository of
the TPP, as appropriate, that the United States withdraws as a signatory of the TPP and withdraws from the TPP negotiating process.

You are authorized and directed to publish this memorandum in the Federal Register.
DONALD J. TRUMP


http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2017/images/01/28/presidential.memorandum
.regarding.withdrawal.of.the.united.states.from.the.trans-pacific.partnership.negotiations.and.agreement.pdf


Some people would argue that this Order will have no effect at all, since the TPP would still have to pass Congress. I personally think that there are enough "free trade" Democrats AND Republicans to pass this pig, and that the declaration was necessary.

As to the Order's effect: I don't think people have FULLY thought out what the TPP is and what it does.

1) It excludes China. It was meant to ring-fence China with trading partners who were legally bound to respect copyrights and patents.
2) It excludes the Legislatures and Parliaments from adjudicating trade claims, and bound the signatories in private trade courts which would decide investor-state arbitration.

Now, I know I've posted about this before, maybe it will sink in this time, but here is an example of how screwed, blue, and tattooed we would be if we had signed onto this: Under a similar trade agreement, Australia's Tobacco Plain Packaging Act ... a law that the Australian Parliament passed to discourage smoking and prevent disease and death ... was taken to TRADE COURT by Phillip Morris Asia under the presumption that this Act would interfere with normal and expected profits under a bilateral trade agreement with Hong Kong.

Quote:

Philip Morris Asia challenged the tobacco plain packaging legislation under the 1993 Agreement between the Government of Australia and the Government of Hong Kong for the Promotion and Protection of Investments (Hong Kong Agreenment). This was the first investor-state dispute brought against Australia. https://www.ag.gov.au/tobaccoplainpackaging
The arbitration was decided by a tribunal in Hong Kong. Fortunately, the suit was overturned. Unfortunately, it was overturned on a narrow technicality which would probably not apply in future cases.

Now, imagine this scenario played out over USA environmental or product safety or food safety laws.

Let's say that a state (eg. CA) wants to put a surcharge on "dirty petroleum" ... for example, tar sands, which require tremendous amount of energy to process.

Or let's say that the FDA forbids certain excipients in imported medication.

Or the city of Bangor, Maine passes GMO-labelling laws.

UNLESS THESE RESTRICTIONS ARE AN ADOPTED PART OF THE TRADE PACT, EACH ENTITY COULD BE SUED BY TRANSNATIONALS FOR REDUCING NORMAL AND EXPECTED PROFITS, AND TAKEN TO A TRADE TRIBUNAL FOR ARBITRATION.

Now, what is YOUR venue for disputing the decision??? Local, state, or USA courts? Nope! The process of adjudication has already been decided and guess what?? You're not part of it.

See where this is going?

By signing on to the TPP (and the TTIP) you can flush all of your precious worker rights, product safety, food cleanliness, and environmental protection laws down the toilet. You may disagree with Trump about a lot of things - I know I do!- but the thing you can THANK Trump for is that the venue for disagreement is HERE, not some some blank, hidden, inaccessible private arbitration panel somewhere. So between Merkel killing the TTIP (when Trump won) and Trump killing the TPP, I call this a "win".

I'm sure there will be further developments about NAFTA.


Now, who would be FOR the TPP? Well, the biggest USA beneficiaries are patent/copyright giants: Apple, the RIAA (Recording Industry Association of America, i.e. Hollywood and the music industry), Monsanto, and any other USA-based transnational which depends on upholding copyrights and patents. Expect to see a flurry of criticism against Trump from these entities for the forseeable future.



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake


According to you GSTRING, if I discuss something I'm over-reacting. If I DON'T discuss something, I'm hiding.

You see? You're a troll. YOU don't want to discuss the subject, all you want to do is look for an excuse for personal attacks.

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Sunday, January 29, 2017 1:24 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


The Executive Order that is causing such a fuss:

Quote:

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and laws of the United States of America, including the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA), 8 U.S.C. 1101 et seq., and section 301 of title 3, United States Code, and to protect the American people from terrorist attacks by foreign nationals admitted to the United States, it is hereby ordered as follows:

Section 1. Purpose. The visa-issuance process plays a crucial role in detecting individuals with terrorist ties and stopping them from entering the United States. Perhaps in no instance was that more apparent than the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, when State Department policy prevented consular officers from properly scrutinizing the visa applications of several of the 19 foreign nationals who went on to murder nearly 3,000 Americans. And while the visa-issuance process was reviewed and amended after the September 11 attacks to better detect would-be terrorists from receiving visas, these measures did not stop attacks by foreign nationals who were admitted to the United States.

Numerous foreign-born individuals have been convicted or implicated in terrorism-related crimes since September 11, 2001, including foreign nationals who entered the United States after receiving visitor, student, or employment visas, or who entered through the United States refugee resettlement program. Deteriorating conditions in certain countries due to war, strife, disaster, and civil unrest increase the likelihood that terrorists will use any means possible to enter the United States. The United States must be vigilant during the visa-issuance process to ensure that those approved for admission do not intend to harm Americans and that they have no ties to terrorism.

In order to protect Americans, the United States must ensure that those admitted to this country do not bear hostile attitudes toward it and its founding principles. The United States cannot, and should not, admit those who do not support the Constitution, or those who would place violent ideologies over American law. In addition, the United States should not admit those who engage in acts of bigotry or hatred (including “honor” killings, other forms of violence against women, or the persecution of those who practice religions different from their own) or those who would oppress Americans of any race, gender, or sexual orientation.

Sec. 2. Policy. It is the policy of the United States to protect its citizens from foreign nationals who intend to commit terrorist attacks in the United States; and to prevent the admission of foreign nationals who intend to exploit United States immigration laws for malevolent purposes.

Sec. 3. Suspension of Issuance of Visas and Other Immigration Benefits to Nationals of Countries of Particular Concern. (a) The Secretary of Homeland Security, in consultation with the Secretary of State and the Director of National Intelligence, shall immediately conduct a review to determine the information needed from any country to adjudicate any visa, admission, or other benefit under the INA (adjudications) in order to determine that the individual seeking the benefit is who the individual claims to be and is not a security or public-safety threat.

(b) The Secretary of Homeland Security, in consultation with the Secretary of State and the Director of National Intelligence, shall submit to the President a report on the results of the review described in subsection (a) of this section, including the Secretary of Homeland Security’s determination of the information needed for adjudications and a list of countries that do not provide adequate information, within 30 days of the date of this order. The Secretary of Homeland Security shall provide a copy of the report to the Secretary of State and the Director of National Intelligence.

(c) Pursuant to section 212(f) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1182(f), I hereby proclaim that the entry of nationals of Syria as refugees is detrimental to the interests of the United States and thus suspend any such entry until such time as I have determined that sufficient changes have been made to the USRAP to ensure that admission of Syrian refugees is consistent with the national interest.

(d) Pursuant to section 212(f) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1182(f), I hereby proclaim that the entry of more than 50,000 refugees in fiscal year 2017 would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, and thus suspend any such entry until such time as I determine that additional admissions would be in the national interest.

(e) Notwithstanding the temporary suspension imposed pursuant to subsection (a) of this section, the Secretaries of State and Homeland Security may jointly determine to admit individuals to the United States as refugees on a case-by-case basis, in their discretion, but only so long as they determine that the admission of such individuals as refugees is in the national interest — including when the person is a religious minority in his country of nationality facing religious persecution, when admitting the person would enable the United States to conform its conduct to a preexisting international agreement, or when the person is already in transit and denying admission would cause undue hardship — and it would not pose a risk to the security or welfare of the United States.

(f) The Secretary of State shall submit to the President an initial report on the progress of the directive in subsection (b) of this section regarding prioritization of claims made by individuals on the basis of religious-based persecution within 100 days of the date of this order and shall submit a second report within 200 days of the date of this order.

(g) It is the policy of the executive branch that, to the extent permitted by law and as practicable, State and local jurisdictions be granted a role in the process of determining the placement or settlement in their jurisdictions of aliens eligible to be admitted to the United States as refugees. To that end, the Secretary of Homeland Security shall examine existing law to determine the extent to which, consistent with applicable law, State and local jurisdictions may have greater involvement in the process of determining the placement or resettlement of refugees in their jurisdictions, and shall devise a proposal to lawfully promote such involvement.

Sec. 6. Rescission of Exercise of Authority Relating to the Terrorism Grounds of Inadmissibility. The Secretaries of State and Homeland Security shall, in consultation with the Attorney General, consider rescinding the exercises of authority in section 212 of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1182, relating to the terrorism grounds of inadmissibility, as well as any related implementing memoranda.

Sec. 7. Expedited Completion of the Biometric Entry-Exit Tracking System. (a) The Secretary of Homeland Security shall expedite the completion and implementation of a biometric entry-exit tracking system for all travelers to the United States, as recommended by the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States.

(b) The Secretary of Homeland Security shall submit to the President periodic reports on the progress of the directive contained in subsection (a) of this section. The initial report shall be submitted within 100 days of the date of this order, a second report shall be submitted within 200 days of the date of this order, and a third report shall be submitted within 365 days of the date of this order. Further, the Secretary shall submit a report every 180 days thereafter until the system is fully deployed and operational.

Sec. 8. Visa Interview Security. (a) The Secretary of State shall immediately suspend the Visa Interview Waiver Program and ensure compliance with section 222 of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1222, which requires that all individuals seeking a nonimmigrant visa undergo an in-person interview, subject to specific statutory exceptions.

(b) To the extent permitted by law and subject to the availability of appropriations, the Secretary of State shall immediately expand the Consular Fellows Program, including by substantially increasing the number of Fellows, lengthening or making permanent the period of service, and making language training at the Foreign Service Institute available to Fellows for assignment to posts outside of their area of core linguistic ability, to ensure that non-immigrant visa-interview wait times are not unduly affected.

Sec. 9. Visa Validity Reciprocity. The Secretary of State shall review all nonimmigrant visa reciprocity agreements to ensure that they are, with respect to each visa classification, truly reciprocal insofar as practicable with respect to validity period and fees, as required by sections 221(c) and 281 of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1201(c) and 1351, and other treatment. If a country does not treat United States nationals seeking nonimmigrant visas in a reciprocal manner, the Secretary of State shall adjust the visa validity period, fee schedule, or other treatment to match the treatment of United States nationals by the foreign country, to the extent practicable.

Sec. 10. Transparency and Data Collection. (a) To be more transparent with the American people, and to more effectively implement policies and practices that serve the national interest, the Secretary of Homeland Security, in consultation with the Attorney General, shall, consistent with applicable law and national security, collect and make publicly available within 180 days, and every 180 days thereafter:

(i) information regarding the number of foreign nationals in the United States who have been charged with terrorism-related offenses while in the United States; convicted of terrorism-related offenses while in the United States; or removed from the United States based on terrorism-related activity, affiliation, or material support to a terrorism-related organization, or any other national security reasons since the date of this order or the last reporting period, whichever is later;

(ii) information regarding the number of foreign nationals in the United States who have been radicalized after entry into the United States and engaged in terrorism-related acts, or who have provided material support to terrorism-related organizations in countries that pose a threat to the United States, since the date of this order or the last reporting period, whichever is later; and

(iii) information regarding the number and types of acts of gender-based violence against women, including honor killings, in the United States by foreign nationals, since the date of this order or the last reporting period, whichever is later; and

(iv) any other information relevant to public safety and security as determined by the Secretary of Homeland Security and the Attorney General, including information on the immigration status of foreign nationals charged with major offenses.

(b) The Secretary of State shall, within one year of the date of this order, provide a report on the estimated long-term costs of the USRAP at the Federal, State, and local levels.

Sec. 11. General Provisions. (a) Nothing in this order shall be construed to impair or otherwise affect:

(i) the authority granted by law to an executive department or agency, or the head thereof; or

(ii) the functions of the Director of the Office of Management and Budget relating to budgetary, administrative, or legislative proposals.

(b) This order shall be implemented consistent with applicable law and subject to the availability of appropriations.

(c) This order is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person.





-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake


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Sunday, January 29, 2017 1:51 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


What I find interesting are the corporatists who are objecting so strongly, like Uber (Where will get we our cheap drivers from???) and Apple's Tim Cook (Where will we get our cheap programmers from???). These are the same people whose butts puckered when the TPP was killed, and who cling desperately to their H-1B visas so they can drive down the salaries of American scientists and programmers. What a bunch of hypocrites.

Quote:

Citizens of Syria, Iraq, Iran, Sudan, Somalia, Yemen and Libya would be banned from entering the U.S. for 90 days, while the government determines what information it needs to safely admit visitors.
Now, Bush and Obama (and Hillary) having created the clusterfucks in these nations, it seems to me that the USA SHOULD help clean up the mess. Did I mention that I know a Syrian Xtian who is a programmer in the USA, and that he and his wife both have family in Aleppo?

What is the best way for the USA to restore these subject nations to livability so that people no longer need to flee? How do we best handle refugees in the interim?



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake


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Sunday, January 29, 2017 2:45 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Now, what does this last Executive order say?

It will suspend the visa program for seven nations for 90 days until Homeland Scy, Immigration, and State can figure out what information to gather in order to determine that people are who they say they are.

Not admit anyone who hates the USA and would want to do it harm.


Suspend the entry of 50,000 refugees indefinitely. However, refugees may be admitted on a case-by-case basis if they are already in transit, face religious or sexual persecution, or admission is in the national interest.

Expedite the biometric tracking system.

Interview EVERYONE who is applying for a visa, no exceptions, and increase the number of language experts so the interviews aren't delayed.

Make visa requirements reciprocal with other nations.

Provide timely and complete information to the public on the "number of foreign nationals in the United States who have been charged with terrorism-related offenses while in the United States; convicted of terrorism-related, post-visa radicalization, and gender-based religious violence committed by visa holders, and any other public safety information.


-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake


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Sunday, January 29, 2017 4:12 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Nothing wrong with anything I've read there...

Except the fact that it is an Executive Order.......

I'm waiting on him to start tearing up all of the ones Obama and GWB wrote. Not too thrilled that he's already written one, even if I do agree with it. I hope he does the right thing with this and it goes to Congress like it should.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, January 29, 2017 4:50 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Why in god's name do I have to rely on a diligent poster in an obscure forum for a simple list of Trump's Executive Orders?

The msm should be keeping a running daily tally above the fold in big font, and WITH LINKS in every on-line publication, instead of ignoring nearly all of them and and endlessly frothing over one or two.



And if that doesn't tell you how much the msm is an arm of the propaganda machine rather than a NEWS SERVICE, nothing will.




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Monday, January 30, 2017 7:46 AM

REAVERFAN


https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/trial-balloon-for-a-coup-e024990891d5#.mph9zh2fx

Trial Balloon for a Coup?
Analyzing the news of the past 24 hours

The theme of this morning’s news updates from Washington is additional clarity emerging, rather than meaningful changes in the field. But this clarity is enough to give us a sense of what we just saw happen, and why it happened the way it did.
I’ll separate what’s below into the raw news reports and analysis; you may also find these two pieces from yesterday (heavily referenced below) to be useful.

News Reports
(1) Priebus made two public statements today. One is that the ban on Muslims will no longer be applied to green card holders. Notably absent from his statement was anything about people with other types of visa (including long-term ones), or anything about the DHS’ power to unilaterally revoke green cards in bulk.
The other was that the omission of Jews from the statement for Holocaust Remembrance Day was deliberate and is not regretted.
A point of note here is that Priebus is the one making these statements, which is not normally the Chief of Staff’s job. I’ll come back to that below.

(2) Rudy Giuliani told Fox News that the intent of yesterday’s order was very much a ban on Muslims, described in those words, and he was among the people Trump asked how they could find a way to do this legally.

(3) CNN has a detailed story (heavily sourced) about the process by which this ban was created and announced. Notable in this is that the DHS’ lawyers objected to the order, specifically its exclusion of green card holders, as illegal, and also pressed for there to be a grace period so that people currently out of the country wouldn’t be stranded?—?and they were personally overruled by Bannon and Stephen Miller. Also notable is that career DHS staff, up to and including the head of Customs & Border Patrol, were kept entirely out of the loop until the order was signed.

(4) The Guardian is reporting (heavily sourced) that the “mass resignations” of nearly all senior staff at the State Department on Thursday were not, in fact, resignations, but a purge ordered by the White House. As the diagram below (by Emily Roslin v Praze) shows, this leaves almost nobody in the entire senior staff of the State Department at this point.

The seniormost staff of the Department of State. Blue X’s are unfilled positions; red X’s are positions which were purged. Note that the “filled” positions are not actually confirmed yet.
As the Guardian points out, this has an important and likely not accidental effect: it leaves the State Department entirely unstaffed during these critical first weeks, when orders like the Muslim ban (which they would normally resist) are coming down.
The article points out another point worth highlighting: “In the past, the state department has been asked to set up early foreign contacts for an incoming administration. This time however it has been bypassed, and Trump’s immediate circle of Steve Bannon, Michael Flynn, son-in-law Jared Kushner and Reince Priebus are making their own calls.”

(5) On Inauguration Day, Trump apparently filed his candidacy for 2020. Beyond being unusual, this opens up the ability for him to start accepting “campaign contributions” right away. Given that a sizable fraction of the campaign funds from the previous cycle were paid directly to the Trump organization in exchange for building leases, etc., at inflated rates, you can assume that those campaign coffers are a mechanism by which US nationals can easily give cash bribes directly to Trump. Non-US nationals can, of course, continue to use Trump’s hotels and other businesses as a way to funnel money to him.

(6) Finally, I want to highlight a story that many people haven’t noticed. On Wednesday, Reuters reported (in great detail) how 19.5% of Rosneft, Russia’s state oil company, has been sold to parties unknown. This was done through a dizzying array of shell companies, so that the most that can be said with certainty now is that the money “paying” for it was originally loaned out to the shell layers by VTB (the government’s official bank), even though it’s highly unclear who, if anyone, would be paying that loan back; and the recipients have been traced as far as some Cayman Islands shell companies.

Why is this interesting? Because the much-maligned Steele Dossier (the one with the golden showers in it) included the statement that Putin had offered Trump 19% of Rosneft if he became president and removed sanctions. The reason this is so interesting is that the dossier said this in July, and the sale didn’t happen until early December. And 19.5% sounds an awful lot like “19% plus a brokerage commission.”

Conclusive? No. But it raises some very interesting questions for journalists to investigate.

What does this all mean?

I see a few key patterns here. First, the decision to first block, and then allow, green card holders was meant to create chaos and pull out opposition; they never intended to hold it for too long. It wouldn’t surprise me if the goal is to create “resistance fatigue,” to get Americans to the point where they’re more likely to say “Oh, another protest? Don’t you guys ever stop?” relatively quickly.

However, the conspicuous absence of provisions preventing them from executing any of the “next steps” I outlined yesterday, such as bulk revocation of visas (including green cards) from nationals of various countries, and then pursuing them using mechanisms being set up for Latinos, highlights that this does not mean any sort of backing down on the part of the regime.

Note also the most frightening escalation last night was that the DHS made it fairly clear that they did not feel bound to obey any court orders. CBP continued to deny all access to counsel, detain people, and deport them in direct contravention to the court’s order, citing “upper management,” and the DHS made a formal (but confusing) statement that they would continue to follow the President’s orders. (See my updates from yesterday, and the various links there, for details) Significant in today’s updates is any lack of suggestion that the courts’ authority played a role in the decision.

That is to say, the administration is testing the extent to which the DHS (and other executive agencies) can act and ignore orders from the other branches of government. This is as serious as it can possibly get: all of the arguments about whether order X or Y is unconstitutional mean nothing if elements of the government are executing them and the courts are being ignored.

Yesterday was the trial balloon for a coup d’état against the United States. It gave them useful information.


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Monday, January 30, 2017 8:38 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


All speculation aside, if things are going down the way they are outlined, I'm not too excited about it.

Just because I approve of the results of what is to happen by no way means I support the way that it is being carried out. This administration does stuff like this and then the next Democratic administration can do things I'm 100% against in the same fashion.

I'd appreciate it if you can present facts as they arise as you did here without yelling and pissing about it.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, January 30, 2017 8:39 AM

REAVERFAN


You don't seem to be capable of understanding what's going on right in front of you.

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Monday, January 30, 2017 11:14 AM

RIVERLOVE


Wait until The Cragis and his 'Flesh and Blooder' pals come for you. Your state of 'Rapport' with George (The Animal) Soros will come to a grinding halt faster than you can say 'thalamic implant'.



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Monday, January 30, 2017 11:39 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:
You don't seem to be capable of understanding what's going on right in front of you.



Was that a reply to me?

I was serious. I liked the way you presented that information without pissing and whining and giving your two cents about it.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, January 30, 2017 1:00 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Why in god's name do I have to rely on a diligent poster in an obscure forum for a simple list of Trump's Executive Orders?

Quote:

Originally posted by G:
Because you can't spell Google?

Because I can't depend on the news for - yanno - NEWS?
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
The msm should be keeping a running daily tally above the fold in big font, and WITH LINKS in every on-line publication, instead of ignoring nearly all of them and and endlessly frothing over one or two.
And if that doesn't tell you how much the msm is an arm of the propaganda machine rather than a NEWS SERVICE, nothing will.

Quote:

Originally posted by G:
I'm confused Kookoo

I'm surprised you're so up front about it.




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Monday, January 30, 2017 1:21 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Republican senators are criticizing Trump’s immigration order but not doing anything about it

Senators have maximum leverage now, but are not using it.
www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/1/30/14440490/republicans-critici
ze-refugee-ban


Most congressional Republicans haven’t said anything about Donald Trump’s controversial executive order banning refugees and residents of seven majority-Muslim countries from entering the United States. But a fair number, including a substantial group of senators, have spoken out and done so in a critical way.

They have not, however, taken any steps to get the order changed. This is noteworthy because right now individual senators are at a point of maximum leverage vis-à-vis the White House, which needs its Cabinet secretaries to be confirmed.

Today, for example, the senate is expected to take a vote to advance the nomination of Rex Tillerson to serve as secretary of state. Democrats, according to CNN’s Eric Bradner, “are now expected to push for the vote to be delayed until he comments on the Trump travel ban on refugees and citizens of seven Muslim-majority countries.”

It would only take three Republican senators joining them to force Mitch McConnell to give in and grant this request. That would create an opportunity for senators to get the designated secretary of state to clarify the order, and one for the Trump administration to alter the substance of the order to smooth things over. It would also lay the groundwork for potential tripwires on future Trump nominees to undersecretary positions.

Some Senate Republicans, of course, face the problem of being less popular with their own constituents than Trump is. But anti-order Republicans John McCain and Rob Portman were just reelected by much wider margins in their states than Trump secured. Susan Collins has criticized the order and represents a state Trump lost. Orrin Hatch, also critical, is from Utah, where Trump’s performance was catastrophically bad for a Republican.

The presidency is, at the end of the day, both the most powerful political office we have and one whose formal powers are rather circumscribed. The president can’t even staff his own administration without the Senate’s say-so. If the Republican senators who say they want Trump to modify this order insist that he modify it, he would ultimately have no choice but to do so. So far, though, they haven’t chosen to use the leverage they have. And once Trump’s team is in place, that leverage will diminish.

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Monday, January 30, 2017 1:27 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


In reality, I see nothing wrong with this particular Executive Order. What I hear is a lot of emotive whinging about "freedom" and "what America stands for", which are the ever-handy excuses for almost everything (including bombing Afghanistan, Iraq, and Libya).

BTW, do you know what the number of allowed immigrants was under JFK, that paragon of liberal Democrats?

I'll leave that question out there for a while. Maybe someone other than me knows about it, or will bother to learn. If anyone is willing to discuss the Executive Order, and not some phantasm, let me know. Historical examples, facts and figures, and logic are a plus. Leave your mindless outrage at the door please.

To get the conversation going, I'll cross post this POV here, too.





-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake


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Monday, January 30, 2017 5:46 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by G:
1. The pitch from Trump for this was to protect the US from foreign terrorists, but the facts of where terrorists have come from blow that up completely. So another lie.

Then it's a good thing the executive order calls for data on the topic to be gathered.
Quote:

2. According to Rudy G., this was a ban on a religion.
Yet neither Islam nor Muslim are mentioned anywhere in the entire document.
Quote:

Maybe you are new to the US, but religious freedoms are the very core of our CONSTITUTION.
That would apply to citizens. Also, fwiw, many particular RELIGIOUS PRACTICES - like human and animal sacrifice, and plural marriage - are banned by law. So even the supposed religious freedoms citizens enjoy are limited.
Quote:

3. Banning Muslims only
Yet neither Islam nor Muslim are mentioned anywhere in the entire document.
Quote:

further's (sic) ISIS desire for religious conflict between Islam and Christians
Got proof of that?
Quote:

- do you want that? Maybe you do.
logical fallacy - which seems to be all you have
Quote:

4. It was rushed, poorly handled - bad showing for the administration which reflects poorly on the country - and for no reason.
Bungled is the word I'd use.




How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?

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Monday, February 13, 2017 11:09 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

BTW, do you know what the number of allowed immigrants was under JFK, that paragon of liberal Democrats?
The answer was: ZERO.

I'm getting a sense of the Trump Administration's flaws. It has a lot to do with inexperience with government: Trump thinks that the White House plays like reality TV, that all he has to do is give the word and it shall be done. And Trump's appointees mostly reflect Trump's own POV- people who talk big and promote well, but who don't necessarily follow up. Loose cannons.

Michael Flynn, for example. My impression of his 45-minute interview was that he was something of a "fast talker". While he never said anything cringeworthy, he always had an excuse or a reason or an explanation for why something didn't go well. Which explains why he's in trouble now.

OTOH, Tillerson is a shining appointee. He doesn't blab all over the media. Instead, he seems to be steady and methodically goal-oriented.



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake


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Monday, February 13, 2017 12:32 PM

THGRRI


Do you see what's happening here SIG? I'll fill you in. With self-righteous indignation you are beginning to voice a displeasure with Trump. You are repeating to us what we were telling you before the election.

Did you think you could do that without condemnation from the rest of us? In thread after thread you argued for Trump. Now you want to shift to condemner and chief? No SIG, your past posts trying to debunk what we were saying then, as opposed to what you are saying now, are going to haunt you. Vladimir Trump is your guy.


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

BTW, do you know what the number of allowed immigrants was under JFK, that paragon of liberal Democrats?
The answer was: ZERO.

I'm getting a sense of the Trump Administration's flaws. It has a lot to do with inexperience with government: Trump thinks that the White House plays like reality TV, that all he has to do is give the word and it shall be done. And Trump's appointees mostly reflect Trump's own POV- people who talk big and promote well, but who don't necessarily follow up. Loose cannons.

Michael Flynn, for example. My impression of his 45-minute interview was that he was something of a "fast talker". While he never said anything cringeworthy, he always had an excuse or a reason or an explanation for why something didn't go well. Which explains why he's in trouble now.

OTOH, Tillerson is a shining appointee. He doesn't blab all over the media. Instead, he seems to be steady and methodically goal-oriented.



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake




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