REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

The Border Wall Facts

POSTED BY: JEWELSTAITEFAN
UPDATED: Saturday, January 12, 2019 16:04
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Friday, January 11, 2019 5:40 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


I'm just posting this thread so that nit won't get deleted like the other thread.
Original thread:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=62865&p=2

Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Texas Lt Governor says only 200 miles of Border Wall needed in TX.
From Brownsville to Falcon Lake.

He is also a big supporter of Trump.



Wikipedia says there are 48 legal crossings on the Mexico land Border.
Ferry - 1 in TX.
Railroad - 8. 2 in CA, 1 in AZ, 5 in TX.

Road: 50. 9 in CA, 9 in AZ, 3 in NM, 29 in TX.
Not sure why the numbers don't add up. Maybe Libtard Wiki used Libtard Maths for cyphering, or Wiki is not well versed in American English.


CA has 140 miles of Border.
AZ has 373 miles.
NM has 180 miles.
TX has 1,241 miles.

Total 1,934 miles.

If 1,040 miles of Texas Border really doesn't need a Wall, and 14 miles in CA already has one, that leaves 880 miles.
Not sure where that 130 miles of natural barrier are located. But apparently not along this 200 mile stretch in TX.
Of the 654 miles already built under Bush, if 200 were already in TX, then about 450 are elsewhere.
So 450 miles of existing Wall, plus 130 miles of natural barrier, subtracted from 880 miles, leaves only 300 miles of Wall needed. If that 1,000 miles in TX is really not needed.

In NM, 180 miles with 3 crossings averages 60 miles between. And AZ with 373 miles and 9 crossings averages 42 miles between. That first kid who died crossed at a point 80 minutes away from the nearest Border Unit, which means the others are closer together.
I'll look at that data closer.


The 2006 Secure Fence Act, compromised in 2007 by Kay Bailey Hutchinson so that it wouldn't be built.
1. 20 mile fence, centered on Tecate CA.
2. Fence, from 10 miles west of Calexico CA to 5 miles east of Douglas AZ.
3. From 5 miles west of Columbus NM to 10 miles east of El Paso TX.
4. From 5 miles northwest of Del Rio TX to 5 miles southeast of Eagle Pass TX.
5. From 15 miles northwest of Laredo TX to Brownsville TX Port of Entry.

A 2017 GAO Report indicated from FY2010 - FY2015 about 9,300 breaches of Obama's flimsy fence had occurred. Or average 1,550 per year. Which indicates Illegal Aliens are not trying so much to go around, and that the fences are in the right places.
The Secure Fence Act of 2006 authorized and funded 700 miles of fence, but Obama only built 654 miles of "barrier" of which most could be walked through.


Listing the crossings:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mexico%E2%80%93United_States_bor
der_crossings


PedWest - San Ysidro, San Diego
San Ysidro - San Ysidro
San Ysidro Pedestrian
Tijuana Intl Airport - San Diego
Otay Mesa - San Diego
Tecate - Tecate, CA
Calexico West - Calexico CA
Calexico East - Calexico CA
Andrade - Andrade CA

San Luis - San Luis AZ
San Luis II - San Luis AZ
Lukeville - Lukeville Az
Sasabe - Sasabe AZ
Nogales-Mariposa - Nogales AZ
Nogales-Grand Avenue - Nogales AZ
Nogales-Marley Gate - Nogales AZ
Naco - Naco AZ
Douglas - Douglas AZ

Antelope Wells - Antelope Wells NM
Columbus - Columbus NM
Santa Teresa - Santa Teresa NM

El Paso-PDN - El Paso TX
El Paso-Stanton - El Paso
El Paso-BOTA - El Paso
El Paso-Ysleta - El Paso
Tornillo - Tornillo TX
Fort Hancock - Fort Hancock TX
Presidio - Presidio TX
Boquillas - Big Bend TX
Amistad DAm - Del Rio TX
Del Rio - Del Rio TX
Eagle Pass - Eagle Pass TX
Eagle Pass II - Eagle Pass TX
Laredo-Columbia Solidarity - Latredo TX
Laredo-World Trade - Laredo TX
Laredo Bridge 1 - Laredo TX
Laredo-Juarez/Lincoln - Laredo TX
Falcon Dam - Falcon Heights TX
Roma - Roma TX
Rio Grande City - Rio Grande City TX
Los Ebanos - Los Ebanos TX
Anzalduas - Mission TX
Hidalgo - Hidalgo TX
Pharr - Pharr TX
Donna - Donna TX
Progreso - Progreso TX
Los Indios - Los Indios TX
Brownville-B&M - Brownsville TX
Brownsville-Gateway - Brownsville TX
Brownsville-Veterans - Brownsville TX


San Miguel Gate is for Native Americans only, Sells AZ


1993 Fence is 14 miles. (5 San Diego crossings)
2006 Fence #1 is 20 miles. (Tecate CA crossing)
2006 Fence #2 is at least 375 miles. It is 360 miles from Calexico to Douglas, and 422 by car. This Fence ends about 25 miles from New Mexico, so spans about 350 miles of AZ. (12 crossings, 3 CA and 9 AZ)
2006 Fence #3 is at least 95 miles, or maybe 117 miles. It is 80 miles from Columbus NM to El Paso. Columbus is about 60 miles of Border from Texas. This leaves about 115 miles of NM, and about 140 miles between Douglas AZ and Columbus without fence, with 1 crossing at Antelope Wells. (Spans 6 crossings, 2 NM and 4 Texas). Tornillo TX is about 17 (or 39) miles east of El Paso, so is not covered by the description of this fence. Distance from Tornillo to Columbus is 95 miles, or 115 by car.
2006 Fence #4 is about 65 miles. It is 52 miles from Del Rio to Eagle Pass, and 55 by car. (4 crossings)
2006 Fence #5 is at least 180 miles. It is 166 miles from Laredo to Brownsville, or 203 by car. Falcon Lake Dam is about 69 miles southeast of Laredo (82 by car), and according to Lt Governor Dan Patrick is the extent of what is needed, which is less than 200 miles from The Gulf at Brownsville. Falcon Dam to Brownsville is 113 miles, and 129 by car. This would indicate the described Fence would be 180-220 miles, fully encompassing the 200 mile stretch which is now claimed to be needed. (17 crossings)

We might presume that the 700 miles of Fence in the 2006 SFA included 20 miles (#1) + 375 (#2) + 95/117 (#3) + 65 (#4) + 180/220 (#5) = 735/797 miles.
Or maybe 20 + 365 + 85 + 60 + 170 = 700.
Seems a bit unclear.


With about 65-110 miles of fence bordering CA, this leaves about 30-75 miles of CA Border unfenced, not near a legal crossing. Wiki also says Calexico is about 122 miles from San Diego and 62 miles from Yuma, which adds to 184, more than the stated 140 mile Border.

About 140 miles between Fence #2 and #3, unfenced.

Laredo to Eagle Pass is 102 miles, or 117 by car. So the unfenced span is about 82 miles between Fence #4 and #5.

75 + 140 + 82 = ~300/miles unfenced. Of the 1,166 miles agreed which has no Wall, simple subtraction indicates about 865 miles is unfenced between Fence #3 and Fence #4.
Subtracting another way, of the 1,241 miles of Texas Border, about 35 is in Fence #3, 65 is in Fence #4, 180 is in Fence #5. Leaving about 960 miles unfenced. About 82 is between Fence #4 and Fence #5, leaving about 880 miles unfenced between Fence #3 and Fence #4.


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Friday, January 11, 2019 6:25 PM

REAVERFAN




They try so hard, and fail so spectacularly.

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Friday, January 11, 2019 7:15 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Amy Patrick writes:
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10100902776405671&id=3
002882


I’m a licensed structural and civil engineer with a MS in structural engineering from the top program in the nation and over a decade of experience on high-performance projects, and particularly of cleaning up design disasters where the factors weren’t properly accounted for, and I’m an adjunct professor of structural analysis and design at UH-Downtown. I have previously been deposed as an expert witness in matters regarding proper construction of walls and the various factors associated therein, and my testimony has passed Daubert.

Am I a wall expert? I am. I am literally a court-accepted expert on walls.

Structurally and civil engineering-wise, the border wall is not a feasible project. Trump did not hire engineers to design the thing. He solicited bids from contractors, not engineers. This means it’s not been designed by professionals. It’s a disaster of numerous types waiting to happen.

What disasters?

Off the top of my head...
1) It will mess with our ability to drain land in flash flooding. Anything impeding the ability of water to get where it needs to go (doesn’t matter if there are holes in the wall or whatever) is going to dramatically increase the risk of flooding.
2) Messes with all kind of stuff ecologically. For all other projects, we have to do an Environmental Site Assessment, which is arduous. They’re either planning to circumvent all this, or they haven’t accounted for it yet, because that’s part of the design process, and this thing hasn’t been designed.
3) The prototypes they came up with are nearly impossible to build or don’t actually do the job. This article explains more:

www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.engineering.com/amp/17599.html

And so on.

The estimates provided for the cost are arrived at unreasonably. You can look for yourself at the two-year-old estimate that you see everyone citing.

http://fronterasdesk.org/sites/default/files/field/docs/2016/07/Bernst
ein-%20The%20Trump%20Wall.pdf


It does not account for rework, complexities beyond the prototype design, factors to prevent flood and environmental hazard creation, engineering redesign... It’s going to be higher than $50bn. The contractors will hit the government with near CONSTANT change orders. “Cost overrun” will be the name of the game. It will not be completed in Trump’s lifetime.

I’m a structural forensicist, which means I’m called in when things go wrong. This is a project that WILL go wrong. When projects go wrong, the original estimates are just *obliterated*. And when that happens, good luck getting it fixed, because there aren’t that many forensicists out there to right the ship, particularly not that are willing to work on a border wall project— a large quotient of us are immigrants, and besides, we can’t afford to bid on jobs that are this political. We’re small firms, and we’re already busy, and we don’t gamble our reputations on political footballs. So you’d end up with a revolving door of contractors making a giant, uncoordinated muddle of things, and it’d generally be a mess. Good money after bad. The GAO agrees with me.

And it won’t be effective. I could, right now, purchase a 32 foot extension ladder and weld a cheap custom saddle for the top of the proposed wall so that I can get over it. I don’t know who they talked to about the wall design and its efficacy, but it sure as heck wasn’t anybody with any engineering imagination.

Another thing: we are not far from the day where inexpensive drones will be able to pick up and carry someone. This will happen in the next ten years, and it’s folly to think that the coyotes who ferry people over the border won’t purchase or create them. They’re low enough, quiet enough, and small enough to quickly zip people over any wall we could build undetected with our current monitoring setup.

Let’s have border security, by all means, but let’s be smart about it. This is not smart. It’s not effective. It’s NOT cheap. The returns will be diminishing as technology advances, too. This is a ridiculous idea that will never be successfully executed and, as such, would be a monumental waste of money.

This is set to public. Have a blast sharing it.
January 9 at 3:52 AM · Public

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, January 11, 2019 7:20 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


A forensic engineer explains why Trump would be dead before the border wall was completed
https://qz.com/1521310/

Initial estimates by nonpartisan consultants put the wall’s cost at $15 billion. Based on Patrick’s experience—her job involves sorting out structural issues in engineering projects—she believes the final bill would end up being closer to $50 billion.

The US Government Accountability Office agrees that the project is off-track and would end up grossly over budget.
www.gao.gov/assets/700/693488.pdf

Further, she notes, the effectiveness of the wall is in no way guaranteed. “I could, right now, purchase a 32 foot extension ladder and weld a cheap custom saddle for the top of the proposed wall so that I can get over it,” she writes.

And, she adds, the wall could be easily breached by next-generation drones that could pick up and lift people soon — let alone by the time the project is completed.

Patrick’s overall appraisal is unequivocal: “Structurally and civil-engineering wise, the wall is not a feasible project.”

“I do not know who they talked to about the wall design and its efficacy, but it sure as heck wasn’t anybody with any engineering imagination,” she writes.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, January 12, 2019 1:23 PM

REAVERFAN


JSF talking about "facts?"

Russian trolls are only here to lie.

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Saturday, January 12, 2019 2:00 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Amid border-wall debate, third drug tunnel found in less than a month in Nogales, Arizona

www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/border-issues/2019/01/11/third-d
rug-tunnel-one-month-found-nogales/2550685002
/

Effectiveness of walls under scrutiny

Trump's insistence on border-security funding is central to the fight that has resulted in the shutdown.

As part of his push to secure more funding, Trump cites high numbers of drugs coming across the Southwest U.S. border and claims that "These numbers will be DRASTICALLY REDUCED if we have a Wall!"

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
[To heroin overdoses] We lose 300 Americans a week, 90% of which comes through the Southern Border. These numbers will be DRASTICALLY REDUCED if we have a Wall!
8:42 PM - Jan 10, 2019
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1083554782923632640

Trump refers to deaths resulting from heroin. The Drug Enforcement Agency details that the majority of heroin coming into the US comes in via legal ports of entry, or tunnels, and would be totally unaffected by a wall.
https://t.co/3FyKa5Kj2o

If Trump wants the Army Corp of Engineers to bulldoze Nogales, Arizona, then build his Wall a mile or two from Mexico in order to stop drugs and illegal aliens, it is fine with me, but the Republicans of Arizona might object. There is only about 20,000 people, and their buildings, that would need to be removed to make tunnelling unworkable for drug smugglers. I think Trump should try. What is the worst that could happen? He lose an election? Not a big deal. His priority should be protecting Arizona from Mexico.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nogales,_Arizona

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, January 12, 2019 4:04 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:
JSF talking about "facts?"

Russian trolls are only here to lie.



lol

JSF lives very close to where I used to live. He seems to know a lot of things about that area that I could verify from having lived there for 5 years. Hell... he even knew that everybody there calls water fountains "Bubblers".

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

Just because people don't agree with you, doesn't mean that they're Nazis or Russians.

I can't figure out if you're just stupid, or if you're actively engaging in online political terrorism.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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