REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Definition of Milk

POSTED BY: JEWELSTAITEFAN
UPDATED: Sunday, September 8, 2019 16:25
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VIEWED: 264
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Tuesday, September 3, 2019 5:59 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Many of you may have not heard of this, but in WI it is becoming a bigger deal, the State or the Dairy Industry is moving forward with some legal action prohibiting non-mammal sourced fluids from being labeled "milk" - like when from a plant or nut.

Regardless or whether you like the products or not, it seems an obvious falsehood to claim that a fluid not from a lactating mammal is actually, factually, milk.

https://www.wiscontext.org/dairy-defends-its-turf-over-definition-milk

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dairy-producers-fake-milk-soy-almond-rice/

http://www.classactionsreporter.com/consumer/silk-almondmilk-false-nut
rition-claims-class-action-lawsuit


https://vegnews.com/2019/1/federal-court-rules-that-almond-milk-is-mil
k


https://fortune.com/2017/02/16/plant-based-milk-dairy-pride-act/

https://www.organicauthority.com/buzz-news/court-rulings-contradict-ov
er-nondairy-milk-definitions



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Tuesday, September 3, 2019 7:51 PM

WISHIMAY

There will be fire and brimstone and Earth will be destroyed!... in several billion years!----------------------------------------- "Well, so long Earth. Thanks for the air... and what-not." -Philip J. Fry


Everyone that has two brain cells knows "Soy Milk" isn't "MILK" but it looks like it and, more importantly- it is USED as milk would be.

Suing is stupid nonsense. All this country knows how to do.

Pull up yer panties and get over it.

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Tuesday, September 3, 2019 11:13 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Just OOC what would anyone call the "not milk" milk?

"Milk" gets its opaque white appearence from little globules of protein (casein) suspended in water. Anything fluid that has an opaque white appearance is called "milky". OUr galaxy is called the Milky Way.

Some plant saps look white and "milky", however for historic reasons unknown to me it's called "latex" instead of "milk" ... except the milkweed and milk thistle. (go figure!) Paint is another fluid with a milky appearance, but it's called "latex" paint (unless it's paint made from real milk, in which case it's called "milk paint". There really is such a thing; look it up.)

So, what should we call the non-milk milk? Soy latex? Oat latex?

Just having a bit of word fun!

But I agree, milk is from mammals, not soybeans or almonds. The milk substitutes are highly processed emulsions which don't have the same nutritional profile as real milk, being especially deficient in protein. I'd opt for another word ... something not as industrial-sounding as "latex" or "emulsion"... but which gets the point across.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Tuesday, September 3, 2019 11:53 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


WISHY, the reason why I brought this up is because you said that the non-milks are used like milk. But if I were to give my kids a PB&J sandwich with oat "milk" there would be virtually no protein in that meal. People may think that the non-milks are like milk ... they can be used on cereal or in coffee or served with a meal or to make a "milk"shake, but nutritionally they're not the same.

BTW, I'm not a big milk-drinker myself. It's only recently that I started to drink milk (in the form of kefir) but that's bc my bones are thinning.

Hey! How about ... notmilk = ... NILK!


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Thursday, September 5, 2019 7:33 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Just OOC what would anyone call the "not milk" milk?

"Milk" gets its opaque white appearence from little globules of protein (casein) suspended in water. Anything fluid that has an opaque white appearance is called "milky". OUr galaxy is called the Milky Way.

Some plant saps look white and "milky", however for historic reasons unknown to me it's called "latex" instead of "milk" ... except the milkweed and milk thistle. (go figure!) Paint is another fluid with a milky appearance, but it's called "latex" paint (unless it's paint made from real milk, in which case it's called "milk paint". There really is such a thing; look it up.)

So, what should we call the non-milk milk? Soy latex? Oat latex?

Just having a bit of word fun!

But I agree, milk is from mammals, not soybeans or almonds. The milk substitutes are highly processed emulsions which don't have the same nutritional profile as real milk, being especially deficient in protein. I'd opt for another word ... something not as industrial-sounding as "latex" or "emulsion"... but which gets the point across.

I have not lloked into the process of extracting Almond Fluid, or Soy fluid - are they the same?
Not like sucking the fluid from a mammary gland.

Is it the same as Vanilla Extract, or Peppermint Extract? they could be called Extract.

If it is merely squeezing, or manipulating pressure upon nuts, it could be called Jice, like Grape Juice, or Prune Juice, or Orange Juice. What is Coconut fluid called, Coconut Milk?

Is it a chemical process? Like the creation of the Cocaine Paste from the leaves.

A chemical process like sugar can be used to extract fluid from berries like strawberries and blueberries, I don't recall if pectin is involved.

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Thursday, September 5, 2019 11:15 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


I've never seen a soy bean with nipples.

I've seen soy boys with tits though.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, September 6, 2019 1:33 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I have not looked into the process of extracting Almond Fluid, or Soy fluid - are they the same?

Raw soybeans are soaked, ground and heated with water, and filtered to make soy 'milk'. I imagine (but couldn't say for sure if) the same process is used for, say almond 'milk'. But I've seen the same process used for coconut 'meat' to make coconut 'milk'.
And then there's 'milk' of magnesia, made of fine ground magnesium oxide suspended in water.
Quote:

Not like sucking the fluid from a mammary gland.
I'd say !!
Quote:

Is it the same as Vanilla Extract, or Peppermint Extract? they could be called Extract.
No, extracts are usually 'extracted' in alcohol (specifically the only drinkable form of alcohol , which is ethanol); unless you're getting the new-fangled alcohol-free kinds which I believe are extracted in glycerol (glycerin).
Quote:

If it is merely squeezing, or manipulating pressure upon nuts, it could be called Juice, like Grape Juice, or Prune Juice, or Orange Juice. What is Coconut fluid called, Coconut Milk?
There are two kinds of liquids taken from coconuts. Do you know how, when you get a coconut you have to drain the liquid from the hollow inside first? That's coconut water. But the thick stuff in cans used in curries that's mostly fat is made as described above, and that's called coconut 'milk'.
Quote:

Is it a chemical process? Like the creation of the Cocaine Paste from the leaves.
Probably SOME chemistry takes place due to heat and the finely divided nature of the particles, but it's a mechanical process.
Quote:

A chemical process like sugar can be used to extract fluid from berries like strawberries and blueberries, I don't recall if pectin is involved.
Not sure what you mean. Pectin is usually used to make liquid stuff 'gel' - to form a 'jelly' or 'jam'.

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Friday, September 6, 2019 2:31 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


They're prepared by feeding almonds, oats, cashews, soybeans or whatever thru a high-speed ultra-fine grinder with water, then filtering everything interesting out of the resulting liquid, then adding back various gums to thicken it, and stabilizers (phosphates) to keep the emulsions from settling. They also can add vitamins, sugar, and flavors. Some (but not many) go so far as to add protein and calcium.

The problem that I see is that real milk ... whether it be from cows, goats, whales, or people ... has all of the nutrients to make baby grow. All of the protein, fat, minerals (sodium and potassium and more, as well as calcium) and immune factors in an easily-digestible form.

Fake "milk" is nutritionally inferior, but you wouldn't know that from the marketing hype, which presents fake "milk" as being superior to milk, defined by what's NOT in fake milk: no saturated fat, no cholesterol, no lactose, vegan-friendly, better for the earth, yanno a kind of overall halo ... but they fail to mention no protein, no calcium, etc.

It's not like I think grown humans NEED milk. Many people lose the ability to make lactase, which is the enzyme that breaks down lactose, as they get older which is nature's way of saying "You don't need milk anymore". But if you're depending on milk as a source of protein and calcium, then the milk substitutes aren't going to cut it.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Friday, September 6, 2019 11:56 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


It's like meat substitutes. Even the founder of Whole Foods, John Mackey, himself a vegan who has funded meat substitute development, says that meat substitutes - while better for the planet - are NOT HEALTHY for people.

Quote:

The CEO and cofounder of Whole Foods has some concerns about the plant-based "meat" craze.

John Mackey told CNBC on Wednesday that plant-based meat substitutes are good for the environment but not for your health, echoing concerns that have been raised by dieticians and nutritionists in recent weeks.

"If you look at the ingredients, they are super-highly processed foods," Mackey told CNBC. "I don't think eating highly processed foods is healthy. I think people thrive on eating whole foods."

He added: "As for health, I will not endorse that, and that is about as big a criticism that I will do in public."



https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/whole-foods-ceo-john-m
ackey-plant-based-meat-products-unhealthy-2019-8-1028481335


If you look at the list of ingredients of the two most popular meat substitutes they contain things like "potato protein". POTATO PROTEIN? Potatoes have got, like, 1% protein. Do you have any idea HOW MANY steps it takes to isolate potato protein from a potato? In the meantime, you have stripped everything else of value from the potato ... the fiber, potassium, vitamins etc. Same with with soy leghemoglobin, and all of the other processed ingredients.

And the meat substitutes have few, or none of the microntrients in real meat ... no B vitamins, no zinc, no iron (in one case). So, sure: eat a meat substitute once in a while, but don't depend on it. And if you do, you better be careful to supplement all of the stuff you're NOT getting, especially B12, which humans need and which is entirely devoid in plant-based foods.

It boils down to eating a wide variety of minimally-processed, real foods if you want to be healthy.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Friday, September 6, 2019 12:16 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Quote:

It boils down to eating a wide variety of minimally-processed, real foods.


I can't speak for everybody, and I know everybody is different, but I have an extremely limited amount of regular food sources and coupled with multivitimans while rotating an additional vitamin everyday (Vitamin D, Fish Oil, Vitamin C), my health hasn't been this good since my mid 20's.

Brown rice with Canola Oil, California Medley (1 lb of Broccoli, Cauliflower, Carrots), bun-less two quarter pound burgers (with various non-wheat and non-soy based seasoning) is my main meal nearly every day. In between that it's banannas, water, regular cheerios, chunky natural peanut butter, hard boiled eggs and whole milk. On occasion, about once every two weeks, I'll have cheddar cheese and chili with beans for dip with gluten and gmo free tortilla chips.

Keeps the weight off. Keeps the energy up. Keeps the aches and pains away. Got rid of the wavy fingernails as well as the white spots I'd get under them. Blood clots much quicker when I cut myself (which happens somewhat regularly at my old job and while doing work around the house). And my bloodwork back in January came up great even though the doctor would have probably told quite a few ways my bloodwork was saying I was going to die had I gone to the doctor while I was drinking, almost entirely inactive and eating the world's most terrible daily diet that was 80% or more gluten.

I'd have to imagine that it also helps out my mental well being, although I don't know how much of that is just being active and being in much better physical shape than I used to be.


It's not all unprocessed, but a majority of it is.


I'll break this on occasion though. I'm not dogmatic about the whole gluten free thing, and I was never ordered by a doctor to do it for my health. I don't want to annoy people about it when we go out, or make anybody have to cook things especially for me. If it's something worth it I'll break the diet for a day from time to time, but I'm not going to break it by eating hot dog buns with Oscar Meyer franks or anything like that. I usually only eat one large meal per day so I can go 12 hours after waking up in the morning easily out without needing any food, so if I don't feel it's worth breaking my diet I'll just shut up about it and say that I'm not hungry and wait until I get home.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, September 6, 2019 12:39 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


If you're doing well on the diet, then it's working for you.

Over time, tho, you might want to add things like fish (there's more to fish than fish oil, especially taurine) and leafy greens (spinach, chard) add a few more colors to your veggies (red peppers, blue potatoes) and fruits (purple blueberries, watermelon) just to make sure you retain optimal health. Younger people for whatever reason do better, older people need to be more careful with their diets.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Friday, September 6, 2019 12:44 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


I do love fish. Whenever I get everything taken care of and I get myself into a situation where I'm financially stable and can better afford it, fish will definitely be back on my menu. I eat A LOT though, and that'd be quite an expensive addition for me at the moment.

Should have more variety in my vegetables. That's lazyness on my part. No way around it.

I really don't like fruit though. Bananas are fine, and I like apples, but I haven't really eaten them for years once my teeth became a problem since they've become a pain in the ass. Probably eat them again when I get the teeth taken care of early next year. Any suggestions there?

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, September 6, 2019 8:09 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Do you have any desire for "smoothies"? A lot of people seem to like them. (I just can't be bothered with the cleanup!)

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Friday, September 6, 2019 8:24 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

[/i]


Nah. I really don't find sweets in any form really palatable. I tolerate bananas and apples, but I wouldn't even eat them if I didn't know they were good for you.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, September 7, 2019 2:40 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Re smoothies - I used to have a nutribullet even though I was a bit wary of the plastic jar/cup thingy. But after a while I found that the plastic was cloudy and stained - from the frozen blueberries that would take microscopic chunks out of the plastic which made it looked frosted, and leave microscopic bits of blueberries behind which made it look grey. So I gave it away to someone who wanted it despite the caveats, and got an all-metal immersion blender that I use in a large glass jar instead.

I do love my smoothies, even though they're very plain compared to everyone else's. Just coconut water (with really high potassium values), whey protein, and blueberries. They have protein, minerals, and fruit, and are a great meal for me.

The rest of the meals I do cook for myself, since I can't tolerate all the sodium in processed and restaurant food.

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Saturday, September 7, 2019 11:01 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I wasn't thinking of anything really sweet, just maybe tosing some apples and cashews into milk, or watermelon and cantaloupe into coconut water. Some people like to toss in a few leaves of spinach or a few pieces of celery into tomato juice, or even into a fruit smoothie because the vegetable flavor is masked by the fruit.

Not really knowledgeable about smoothies, but I keep reading about them in women's magazines so Just wanted to toss that idea out there.

But maybe drinkig some V8? Supposedly it's got all those vegetables in it, and if you're sweating a lot the salt might help. (I think they have a lower salt version too)

As far as fish is concerned ... yeah, expensive. The best I can do is grab some chunk light tuna on sale and make myself the occasional tuna salad. Also, canned salmon. Not may favorite but canned salmon is never farmed because if they try to can farmed salmon it turns to mush. Mom used to make salmon patties ... salmon, egg, probably breadcrumbs, parsley most likely, I would add tobasco sauce, mixed and fried in a pan. That might make it palatable.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

You idiots have been oppressing the entire sexual spectrum as long as you have existed. I can't wait for the day your kind is dead - WISHIMAY

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Saturday, September 7, 2019 2:55 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Anyway, yeah - perhaps 'nilk' is a good word to use. Or 'milky'. Soy 'milky'. Almond 'milky'. Or, since people associate milky with adjective, how about 'milky' soy. Milky almond. Or, to make a cutesy noun, milkie, like soy milkie.

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Sunday, September 8, 2019 4:14 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I have not looked into the process of extracting Almond Fluid, or Soy fluid - are they the same?

Raw soybeans are soaked, ground and heated with water, and filtered to make soy 'milk'. I imagine (but couldn't say for sure if) the same process is used for, say almond 'milk'. But I've seen the same process used for coconut 'meat' to make coconut 'milk'.
And then there's 'milk' of magnesia, made of fine ground magnesium oxide suspended in water.

Quote:

Not like sucking the fluid from a mammary gland.
I'd say !!

Quote:

Is it the same as Vanilla Extract, or Peppermint Extract? they could be called Extract.
No, extracts are usually 'extracted' in alcohol (specifically the only drinkable form of alcohol , which is ethanol); unless you're getting the new-fangled alcohol-free kinds which I believe are extracted in glycerol (glycerin).

This sounds like a chemical process. The cocaine process to make paste seems similar, I don't recall whether they use glycerin or some alkali, but they must soak for quite some time.
Quote:


Quote:

If it is merely squeezing, or manipulating pressure upon nuts, it could be called Juice, like Grape Juice, or Prune Juice, or Orange Juice. What is Coconut fluid called, Coconut Milk?
There are two kinds of liquids taken from coconuts. Do you know how, when you get a coconut you have to drain the liquid from the hollow inside first? That's coconut water. But the thick stuff in cans used in curries that's mostly fat is made as described above, and that's called coconut 'milk'.

I had thought that the fluid from the inside of the coconut was the "coconut milk" and it is milky in appearance, I thought. The slushy product of processing the pulp of the coconut that I normally use for my alcoholic beverages is called puree, as I recall.
Quote:


Quote:

Is it a chemical process? Like the creation of the Cocaine Paste from the leaves.
Probably SOME chemistry takes place due to heat and the finely divided nature of the particles, but it's a mechanical process.

Quote:

A chemical process like sugar can be used to extract fluid from berries like strawberries and blueberries, I don't recall if pectin is involved.

Not sure what you mean. Pectin is usually used to make liquid stuff 'gel' - to form a 'jelly' or 'jam'.

Yes. I was off-base with pectin. Sugar is used to extract juice which creates a syrup, like for pies and jams. Make some cuts in berries or fruit, then cover in sugar and let it work. Similar for sugar used in the initial process for winemaking, which I did a lot of as a kid - although my dad was the one keeping track of the processes.
The sugar in ice cream is why Strawberries & Cream is a woinderful flavor - make cuts in fresh strawberries, submerge them in real ice cream let stand or a bit. The longer it sits, while not fully melting the ice cream, the more flavor is extracted from the berries.

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Sunday, September 8, 2019 4:25 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
They're prepared by feeding almonds, oats, cashews, soybeans or whatever thru a high-speed ultra-fine grinder with water, then filtering everything interesting out of the resulting liquid, then adding back various gums to thicken it, and stabilizers (phosphates) to keep the emulsions from settling. They also can add vitamins, sugar, and flavors. Some (but not many) go so far as to add protein and calcium.

I don't think cows and goats use this process to constitute real milk.
Quote:


The problem that I see is that real milk ... whether it be from cows, goats, whales, or people ... has all of the nutrients to make baby grow. All of the protein, fat, minerals (sodium and potassium and more, as well as calcium) and immune factors in an easily-digestible form.

Fake "milk" is nutritionally inferior, but you wouldn't know that from the marketing hype, which presents fake "milk" as being superior to milk, defined by what's NOT in fake milk: no saturated fat, no cholesterol, no lactose, vegan-friendly, better for the earth, yanno a kind of overall halo ... but they fail to mention no protein, no calcium, etc.

This paragraph clarifies much of the problem. The FAKE perceptions and illusions.
Quote:


It's not like I think grown humans NEED milk. Many people lose the ability to make lactase, which is the enzyme that breaks down lactose, as they get older which is nature's way of saying "You don't need milk anymore". But if you're depending on milk as a source of protein and calcium, then the milk substitutes aren't going to cut it.


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