REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

On Abortions...

POSTED BY: 6IXSTRINGJACK
UPDATED: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 07:37
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Monday, December 13, 2021 10:35 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Anybody here that knows me knows that, personally, I'm against abortions. There are more than a few reasons for this. First and foremost, I do believe that abortion is murder. Not in any sort of religious sense, since I don't subscribe to any religion and I'm on the fence that this wasn't all just some giant cosmic accident that we're the benefactors of.

This sometimes leads to me having arguments with people who I generally otherwise agree with politically when it comes to my stance against the death penalty. For all intents and purposes, the death penalty is also state-sanctioned murder. I honestly wouldn't even want to know how many people we've murdered in this way that were innocent of the charges brought up against them. So many steps lead the way to that particular form of murder and the biggest problem is that human error is always a part of every step.

Who the hell are we to judge?

And remember that question, because I'll be circling back to that later...

On a personal level, my bigger problem with abortion is the fact that the male in the relationship, legally, has zero percent input in the decision. Once consensual intercourse has happened and a baby is conceived, the female holds any and all legal rights to decide the fate of that new life as well as the financial well being of the male for the next two decades. She can make that decision completely independent of the male.

I understand that this is a complicated issue that doesn't have any easy answers, but the way it works now IS a problem.




But as against the practice of abortion I am on a personal level, I'm far more concerned about our Government controlling every little aspect of our lives, including what we choose to do or not to do with our bodies.

"My body, my choice"...?

You're goddamned right.

Not just abortions, but untested vaccinations too. How about we stop chopping off parts of boys penises when they're born while we're at it, and let them make that decision when they're old enough to vote?

If we ban medically sanctioned abortions, it's not going to stop abortions. You're just going to have a bunch of dead women who did something stupid they saw on the internet to try and kill the baby. Most women who attempt this will successfully kill the baby on their own without killing themselves or somehow crippling or mutilating themselves for the rest of their lives, but what a horror it would be to have to live with that memory until the day you die. The day you brutally murdered the child you were carrying. At least when women do it now, the procedure is like getting a tooth pulled and they walk away without any real sense of what they actually did. That's how the process has been engineered from start to finish.


I ask again... Who the hell are we to judge?

If there is a god, who's to say that they're even against abortion? I'm sure it says it in the holy books, but those things were written back in days where if you weren't careful the lions and tigers and bears would rip any of you renaming to shreds that didn't already die as an infant from microscopic animals who's existence wouldn't even be proven until the 1800's. I can't see a god that would be against the practice when we're living on a severely overpopulated planet that only grows exponentially unbalanced every year.

But if there is a god, and god finds abortion appalling, well... sorry about hell, girl. Hope it's not as bad as they tell us it is.

I guess that would be the one benefit of being a male in America without any rights in this case. None of the burden of guilt or having to answer for it in a potential afterlife.




Politically speaking, I think trying to overturn Roe V Wade is one of the dumbest things Republicans could do right now.

You've got the majority you needed to do things like write gun protection in stone. DO THAT.

Don't overturn Roe V Wade.

We're looking at the possibility of Democrats losing power for an entire generation right now. A way to finally force the bad actors out of that party and restructure it in a fashion where sanity prevails, and tyranny is kicked to the curb.

Banning abortion has a great potential to ruin all of that.

We can't afford the outcome of banning abortion.



I can't even believe we need to have this conversation. Up until a few months ago I proclaimed with 100% certainty that Roe V Wade wasn't going anywhere. I beg the Supreme Court not to throw its support behind the Clown World we've been living in for far too long already.

This is not an important issue.

DO NOT MAKE IT ONE.

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Monday, December 13, 2021 2:45 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Interesting take on the topic.

Your objection to abortion isn't moral, it's propertarian. Personally, I fail to see how a man can have ANY say in whether a woman carries a baby to term, or not. That would give him some right to essentially hijack her body and her life for nine months, doing something that is medically risky and financially damaging. But HE can't carry the baby for her, HE can't share the risk with her, and there's no guarantee that he will even help out once the baby is born. It's a balance between authority and responibility. If he has no responsiblity and carries no risk, he should have no legal, decison-making authority.

I know there are many societies that run that way, turning women into baby-making factories whether they want to or not. Afghanistan, for example. Do we want to be like that?

But from a political POV, I agree that overturning ROE v WADE would be a mistake.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


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Monday, December 13, 2021 7:10 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Interesting take on the topic.

Your objection to abortion isn't moral, it's propertarian. Personally, I fail to see how a man can have ANY say in whether a woman carries a baby to term, or not. That would give him some right to essentially hijack her body and her life for nine months, doing something that is medically risky and financially damaging. But HE can't carry the baby for her, HE can't share the risk with her, and there's no guarantee that he will even help out once the baby is born. It's a balance between authority and responibility. If he has no responsiblity and carries no risk, he should have no legal, decison-making authority.

I know there are many societies that run that way, turning women into baby-making factories whether they want to or not. Afghanistan, for example. Do we want to be like that?


If they ever come out and make it so that men carry NONE of the financial risk or responsibility while women have ALL of the reproductive say so, I'm all on board.

But they hold all of the cards, have all of the entitlement and are still able to cry to the world about how oppressed they are.

Right now, the system allows women to abuse men, period.

Don't believe me? Look at how few of them are getting married these days after watching their fathers being cash raped their whole lives.

Quote:
But from a political POV, I agree that overturning ROE v WADE would be a mistake.


I'm right about all of it, but I'm glad you agree with at least half of it.



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Monday, December 13, 2021 8:09 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


If a man DOESN'T want children, the answer is simple: use a condom or keep your pants zipped. No need for men to be crying BOOHOO that they got "taken advantage of" and got saddled with kid(s) they didn't want. If you don't want them, don't have them.

If a man WANTS children then he has to step up and be good fatherhood material. It takes more than good intentions to be a dad, it's a long-term responsibility and commitment. You, for example, wouldn't be a good dad. Altho you're bright and energetic, you're far too oppositional for your own good, and literally can't see anyone else's POV. And you couldn't possibly support a child with your current lifestyle. Good thing there are no little SIXSTRINGS in your wake. Count your blessings that you got absolved of the decision and the responsibility.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


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Monday, December 13, 2021 9:56 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
If a man DOESN'T want children, the answer is simple: use a condom or keep your pants zipped. No need for men to be crying BOOHOO that they got "taken advantage of" and got saddled with kid(s) they didn't want. If you don't want them, don't have them.


Bullshit. My best friend was trapped by a girl who had been on the pill for years and then stopped taking them. When he didn't marry her, she had the kid and cash raped him for the next 20 years, even though the step-father she later married made enough so she didn't have to work. Meanwhile, him and his current fiancee both work and still struggle because he's still paying 18 years later.

Quote:
If a man WANTS children then he has to step up and be good fatherhood material. It takes more than good intentions to be a dad, it's a long-term responsibility and commitment.


A lot of people with dad potential have shit piece of shit girls that have abortions without the male even knowing it happened.

Some of them know and still have no power to do anything about it.

Quote:
You, for example, wouldn't be a good dad. Altho you're bright and energetic, you're far too oppositional for your own good, and literally can't see anyone else's POV. And you couldn't possibly support a child with your current lifestyle. Good thing there are no little SIXSTRINGS in your wake. Count your blessings that you got absolved of the decision and the responsibility.


Fuck you. I already know that and I'm grateful that I don't have to live with any of the guilt and if there is a hell, I'm not the one of the two of us that will be going there.


100% financial freedom for men, 100% birthing choice for women.

You want the choice, you live with the consequences.

You want the man to stay in the picture and be a good dad and a good husband. You'd better goddanmed well be a good wife and mother and stop relying on the system to cash rape the man.

That's the only way this is ever going to be fair.


And if they don't do something about it soon, don't be surprised when nobody in Gen Z gets married. Because signing that government marriage contract is fucking poison for men, and kids aren't stupid and see it with their own eyes every day.

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Monday, December 13, 2021 10:33 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
SIGNYM:
If a man DOESN'T want children, the answer is simple: use a condom or keep your pants zipped. No need for men to be crying BOOHOO that they got "taken advantage of" and got saddled with kid(s) they didn't want. If you don't want them, don't have them.

SIX: Bullshit. My best friend was trapped by a girl who had been on the pill for years and then stopped taking them. When he didn't marry her, she had the kid and cash raped him for the next 20 years, even though the step-father she later married made enough so she didn't have to work. Meanwhile, him and his current fiancee both work and still struggle because he's still paying 18 years later.
it takes two to make a baby. If he really didn't want a child, he should have taken the steps to prevent it. Why dump it all on her? Have a vasectomy, if you're that dead set against it.
He was a bad judge of character, and careless. When you put that decision in someone else's hands, you have to live with the consequences.

Quote:
If a man WANTS children then he has to step up and be good fatherhood material. It takes more than good intentions to be a dad, it's a long-term responsibility and commitment.

SIX: A lot of people with dad potential have shit piece of shit girls that have abortions without the male even knowing it happened.
Too bad. The woman has to deal with the immediate consequences, and there's no way he can affect that. Maybe SHE'S not ready to be a mother. Knowi what a comment it is to have a child, do you want anyone - man or woman- to be an unwilling parent?

Quote:
SIGNY: You, for example, wouldn't be a good dad. Altho you're bright and energetic, you're far too oppositional for your own good, and literally can't see anyone else's POV. And you couldn't possibly support a child with your current lifestyle. Good thing there are no little SIXSTRINGS in your wake. Count your blessings that you got absolved of the decision and the responsibility.

SIX: Fuck you. I already know that and I'm grateful that I don't have to live with any of the guilt and if there is a hell, I'm not the one of the two of us that will be going there.
You sure about that?


Quote:
100% financial freedom for men, 100% birthing choice for women.
You want the choice, you live with the consequences.
Well, ideally, BOTH parents agree to have the child.

Quote:
SIX: You want the man to stay in the picture and be a good dad and a good husband. You'd better goddanmed well be a good wife and mother and stop relying on the system to cash rape the man.
That's the only way this is ever going to be fair.
Of course. I've tried to be the best partner, wife, and mother that I know how to be. I've always held up my end of the bargain, making my way professionally, contributing equally to the household income, doing my best to take care of the family, sharing in life's burdens (with our daughter there have been many!), taking care of my MIL, pulling equally hard on the yoke. I haven't always succeed, but I've done my best. As has hubby.


-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


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Tuesday, December 14, 2021 6:40 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Keep having those unreasonable takes on the issue.

MGTOW is only growing. Women aren't worth the trouble anymore, and pussy is far cheaper on the street.

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Tuesday, December 14, 2021 6:58 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Keep having those unreasonable takes on the issue.

MGTOW is only growing. Women aren't worth the trouble anymore, and pussy is far cheaper on the street.
Men Going Their Own Way ( MGTOW ) is an anti-feminist, misogynistic, mostly online community advocating for men to separate themselves from women and from a society which they believe has been corrupted by feminism.

Members of MGTOW communities track their engagement with the ideology on a series of four levels. . . . At the fourth level, men minimize their engagement with the state and society, including employment; this is called "going ghost". 6ix is a ghost, judging by employment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men_Going_Their_Own_Way

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Tuesday, December 14, 2021 9:25 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Keep having those unreasonable takes on the issue.
MGTOW is only growing. Women aren't worth the trouble anymore, and pussy is far cheaper on the street.
What is so unreasonable thinking men should be responsible about how and where they stick their dicks? Like I said, it takes two to make a baby. If you don't want kids, don't have them.
The picture that you paint of men is a very unflattering one. You make men sound like they're helpless, passive victims of their sex drive, so eager to stick their dick into someone that they don't think about consequences, and leave all of the decision-making to the woman.

Then, they get mad AT HER when she makes a decision?
Then they cry WHHAAAAHHH! because they "accidentally" had a baby?

Oh, please, men ... grow the fuck up and take responsibility for your own actions (or inaction).

The ONLY reason why you're rethinking abortion is because "My body, my choice" affects YOU, personally, because of the vaccine mandate.

Good thing you're not a dad! Or a husband!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


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Tuesday, December 14, 2021 10:59 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Keep having those unreasonable takes on the issue.
MGTOW is only growing. Women aren't worth the trouble anymore, and pussy is far cheaper on the street.
What is so unreasonable thinking men should be responsible about how and where they stick their dicks? Like I said, it takes two to make a baby. If you don't want kids, don't have them.


WTF? You're putting one hundered percent responsibility on one person when you agree it takes two. And then you're giving 100% rights after the fact to the other person.

You're fucked in the head.

Quote:
The picture that you paint of men is a very unflattering one. You make men sound like they're helpless, passive victims of their sex drive, so eager to stick their dick into someone that they don't think about consequences, and leave all of the decision-making to the woman.


No. They're helpless, passive victims of government, who give all decision making to the women.

Quote:
Then, they get mad AT HER when she makes a decision?


Yup.

Quote:
Then they cry WHHAAAAHHH! because they "accidentally" had a baby?


No. She collaboratively murdered mine. Without anybody asking me if it was alright.

Quote:
Oh, please, men ... grow the fuck up and take responsibility for your own actions (or inaction).


Yup. I still live with that anger.

She fucked me up almost as bad as the baby.

Quote:
The ONLY reason why you're rethinking abortion is because "My body, my choice" affects YOU, personally, because of the vaccine mandate.


Bullshit. This conversation has come up before. I'm not rethinking anything. I've always been pro choice, and against the government. I won't hesitate on calling a woman who murders her baby a monster though.

Quote:
Good thing you're not a dad! Or a husband!


You're telling me.

I might have been a good one back then. But certainly not now.




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Tuesday, December 14, 2021 2:28 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



In this country, no man can ever be 'tricked' into having a baby he doesn't want. He can 100% guarantee that he never has a child, all on his own, by taking action, all on his own: no sex, condom, vasectomy. There are many individual and combination choices to the same end. All he has to do to guarantee he gets what he wants is to take appropriate action.

And since a man who doesn't want a child can absolutely, 100% guarantee he never, ever has a child, then yes, he's 100% responsible for any unwanted one he does father. It's pretty simple. He failed to do what was necessary in his own life to get what he wanted in his own life.



But this argument isn't about that. it's about your gf tricking you into NOT having a baby you didn't really want. Ultimately, she gave you what you wanted.*

As far as I can tell, this argument is about your over-inflated ego not being catered to. YOU not being able to make that 'choice' for HER. Because, ultimately, when the 2 people differ, someone has to have a final say. You're just pissed because you weren't the one to have it.

*How do I know that this is all about you and not about a child? Because you never, ever speculate about that child-to-be. You never wonder if it would have been a boy or a girl. What it would have been like. How it would have grown up. What it would have done in the world. Every post is all about you, you, you, you, you, you .... you, and you. Your anger is all about you, not being paid attention to, the way you think you're entitled to be.


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Tuesday, December 14, 2021 4:02 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


SIX, you burn with outrage bc your friend fathered a baby he didn't want, and then got "raped" (financially) when his gf gave birth. Logically, since it DOES take two to make a baby, it can be prevented by either party.

It would be one thing if they had an agreement - no babies- and she went back on her word. But even then, birth control methods fail. They should have planned out some "what if" scenarios. What if birth control failed? Would he be willing to shoulder the burdens of fatherhood? Would she be willing to have an abortion?

But often, what I see is that men assume that the woman is "taking care" of that end of things.
Why?
Because it's convenient . Bc they don't have to do anything, discuss anything, decide anything, take any responsibility. They get what they want (sex) and ASSUME she wants what they want (child-free sex). Bc it's convenient they ignore the possibilities.

And you burn with outrage bc your then-gf took away the possibility of fatherhoodfrom you.

Let me ask you a question: Did you ever talk about it with her ahead of time?
Every time you have sex, there is the possibility of children. It's a fact of life. It's something women - even women on birth control- have to think about.

Did you?

Or were you just following the most convenient path? The path of least resistance?

I agree with KIKI: This is all about you. Your ego, your entitlement, your incipient bipolar disorder, your narcissism, and your oppositional disorder. Stop blaming everyone else ("women", "the government") for things that were within your control. You failed to take a proactive stance about something vitally important. You screwed up. Next time, keep your radar tuned up.

Your next challenge.. one that you should be preparing for, is old age and sickness. Some day, you will get there, but instead of preparing for it, you're busying yourself with home improvement. Useful projects to be sure, but not long-term planning. Please don't blame everyone else for your failure to plan ahead.

/End discussion



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


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Tuesday, December 14, 2021 4:27 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Just a general comment on MGTOW:

In traditional societies, where economic prospects are falling and men are made "redundant", men often separate themselves from the responsibilities of fatherhood bc they have no role.

Back in the day, Irishmen often didn't marry until they were 35, or older, bc they had not yet inherited the family farm and didn't have a livelihood to offer. During the Great Depression, men abandoned their families and "rode the rails". I think one driver of the MGTOW movement is the lack of a vital role for men in the economy.

I think that's a critical factor in society falling apart. Unless men have something to offer - something that binds them to family, society, culture- they become a bunch of unaffiliated purposeless loose cannons. There are reasons for traditional roles for men as protector and risk-taker for the family/ tribe/ society. It binds them to others and keeps society intact.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


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Tuesday, December 14, 2021 5:05 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


I'm not MGTOW. I'm just recognizing their existence and rise, and acknowledging there is some pretty compelling reasons for it. I don't subscribe to any movement or religion.

It's women that have become useless in today's society. Not men.

They can't cook. They won't clean. They have nothing to bring to the table except for a warm and wet place to stick it in, and our government has made it so the price for that is far too high and the only ones that are even going to be doing it anymore are kids that don't know any better and total deadbeats that have zero income and don't really give a shit if they have a billion kids all over the place because they're never going to pay anybody anything.



I'm not worried about my future. I'm in great shape and I maintain that. We all die someday. I've got an exit plan in place whenever things get so bad that I decide that the ROI for living another day is less than the ROI for getting into a relationship with a woman.



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Tuesday, December 14, 2021 5:17 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


You take one example and apply it to "women" everywhere.
That's pretty ... in a word... stupid. That's like me taking you, or SECONDRATE, as a paradigm for all men everywhere.

Our lab was pretty evenly split between men and women. I worked with plenty of hardworking, faithful, responsible women who were good wives and mothers. Seen plenty hardworking, responsible, supportive women in my neighborhood. Plenty of hardworking responsible men, too.

Seen some pretty awful examples of both, too. But I don't apply that to everyone. And if there's a general drift towards narcissism and shallowness, well, I lay that at the feet of our greed-driven, entitled, individualistic, consumerist culture. I try not to dive into that mentality myself.

Maybe you should get over your mommy issues and start associating with a better group of people.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


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Tuesday, December 14, 2021 5:20 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
You take one example and apply it to "women" everywhere.
That's pretty ... in a word... stupid. That's like me taking you, or SECONDRATE, as a paradigm for all men everywhere.

Our lab was pretty evenly split between men and women. I worked with plenty of hardworking, faithful, responsible women who were good wives and mothers. Seen plenty hardworking, responsible, supportive women in my neighborhood. Plenty of hardworking responsible men, too.

Seen some pretty awful examples of both, too. But I don't apply that to everyone.

Maybe you should get over your mommy issues and start associating with a better group of people.



-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake




I've never met a woman who would make a good wife myself.

Then again, I was never out chasing grannies either.

You should probably look at women who are 40 years old and younger today. The younger you go, the worse it gets.

You'd probably be appalled.



Zero ROI. Zero reason to sign your life away to them.



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Tuesday, December 14, 2021 5:26 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I don't think you meet many women. Not enuf to judge.

I worked with plenty of younger women. I meet them as nurses, cashiers, cleaning ladies, teachers, doctors, secretaries, and receptionists etc. They're out there. You just don't see them All you see is your opinion.

Also, it would be the, stupidest thing in the world to get hitched to a bimbo. I'm the one arguing for keeping your sperm to yourself, right? Nobody is telling you to get involved with a narcissist. But you're like TWITCHY: categorizing a whole group of people bc you have a personal grievance.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


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Tuesday, December 14, 2021 5:33 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Now? Sure. I'm not looking, and I don't ever intend to again.

I've met and dated plenty of women in my life. Enough to know better.

It's a shame that I'm not gay. I'd give Ted a night he'd never forget.



If government didn't make the price so steep, it'd still be worth looking. But everything is stacked 100% against men in a relationship from day one. We live in a society where Western women are the most privileged and entitled class of human beings who ever existed on the planet. Yet they'll still cry that they're oppressed all day long to anybody who will listen to them, and nobody calls them out on it.

There is zero ROI in dating or getting married anymore.


I'm simply ahead of my time. You see articles all the time talking about how low the marriage rate is among Millennials is. Gen Z will be quite a bit worse.

This is why.


If I cared one single bit about the future of the human race, this would bother me. But outside of a few people I really don't.

Nothing ever gets better anyhow. Every year, things just get worse for everyone and nobody is ever going to change anything.


I've opted out of all of it. Let it all burn down around me for all I care.



--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

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Tuesday, December 14, 2021 5:37 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Well, the ROI for women isn't so hot, either, judging by you. I think you need to get over your mommy issues. I know I did.

Also, wake up and smell the coffee. If you really care about a few people, you better plan for a future that's more than 5 years away. You can't help them if you're dead, sick, or destitute.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


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Tuesday, December 14, 2021 7:22 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

If I cared one single bit about the future of the human race, this would bother me. But outside of a few people I really don't.

Nothing ever gets better anyhow. Every year, things just get worse for everyone and nobody is ever going to change anything.

I've opted out of all of it. Let it all burn down around me for all I care.
Your words would fit into Arthur Fleck's mouth:

Arthur Fleck: The worst part of having a mental illness is people expect you to behave as if you don't.

Arthur Fleck: You don't listen, do you? I don't think you ever really hear me. You just ask the same questions every week. "How's your job?" "Are you having any negative thoughts?" All I have are negative thoughts.

Arthur Fleck: For my whole life, I didn't know if I even really existed. But I do, and people are starting to notice.

Arthur Fleck: I used to think that my life was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a fucking comedy.

Arthur Fleck: I've got nothing left to lose. Nothing can hurt me anymore. My life is nothing but comedy.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7286456/quotes/?ref_=tt_trv_qu

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Tuesday, December 14, 2021 7:25 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Arthur Fleck: The worst part of having a mental illness is people expect you to behave as if you don't.


We've all got one mental illness or another or several.

Only holier-than-thou idiots like you refuse to recognize their own.


Why don't you tell us how we should all kill our bosses and steal everything they own again, or how you could kill Trump and exactly how you could get away with it?

If you forget posting that, I could show you where it's archived, Arthur.



--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

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Tuesday, December 14, 2021 7:30 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Well, the ROI for women isn't so hot, either, judging by you. I think you need to get over your mommy issues. I know I did.


Has nothing to do with mom. I don't hate women. Women aren't worth the trouble is all.

Quote:
Also, wake up and smell the coffee. If you really care about a few people, you better plan for a future that's more than 5 years away. You can't help them if you're dead, sick, or destitute.


I'm doing fine. When my house is ready to sell I'll get 5 times what I paid for it. Especially in an area that is soon to be booming with the new railroad that will join it directly to Chicago and South Bend, and everybody fleeing the taxes in Illinois.



The only person in the world I would ever actually support is my brother. And assuming the government doesn't collapse, he's locked in with SSDI and isn't going to have to worry about anything the rest of his life anyhow.

If government does collapse, we're all up shit's creek. I will have no problems navigating that challenge. For some people I would be their immediate problem at that point.

--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

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Tuesday, December 14, 2021 7:33 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Arthur Fleck: The worst part of having a mental illness is people expect you to behave as if you don't.


We've all got one mental illness or another or several.

Only holier-than-thou idiots like you refuse to recognize their own.


Why don't you tell us how we should all kill our bosses and steal everything they own again, or how you could kill Trump and exactly how you could get away with it?

If you forget posting that, I could show you where it's archived, Arthur.
6ix, previously you wrote about the movie, Joker: I've become so jaded that I didn't believe that Hollywood was even capable of putting a film like this out anymore. Not only was it the best comic book movie that likely will ever exist, but if one was being honest with themselves they'd be hard pressed to find another movie of any genre that was better than Joker.

Maybe I'm just still "high" off of it, and it wasn't as good as it "felt"? This is a possibility. Watching it was grueling. My first words to my old man when it finally ended were "I'm exhausted". I felt like I had just come out of the gym after a great workout... and I think my entire body had been tensed up for so long that this wasn't all that far from the truth. Sitting through it was the definition of uncomfortable. Yet at the same time, it was the least violent Batman universe flick ever made.

http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=36&tid=63327&mid=10857
85#1085785

6ix, the Joker movie only gets an emotional reaction like yours from people like Arthur Fleck. But at least Arthur Fleck doesn't post at fireflyfans.net

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Tuesday, December 14, 2021 7:38 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Arthur Fleck: The worst part of having a mental illness is people expect you to behave as if you don't.


We've all got one mental illness or another or several.

Only holier-than-thou idiots like you refuse to recognize their own.


Why don't you tell us how we should all kill our bosses and steal everything they own again, or how you could kill Trump and exactly how you could get away with it?

If you forget posting that, I could show you where it's archived, Arthur.
6ix, previously you wrote about the movie, Joker: I've become so jaded that I didn't believe that Hollywood was even capable of putting a film like this out anymore. Not only was it the best comic book movie that likely will ever exist, but if one was being honest with themselves they'd be hard pressed to find another movie of any genre that was better than Joker.

Maybe I'm just still "high" off of it, and it wasn't as good as it "felt"? This is a possibility. Watching it was grueling. My first words to my old man when it finally ended were "I'm exhausted". I felt like I had just come out of the gym after a great workout... and I think my entire body had been tensed up for so long that this wasn't all that far from the truth. Sitting through it was the definition of uncomfortable. Yet at the same time, it was the least violent Batman universe flick ever made.

http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=36&tid=63327&mid=10857
85#1085785

6ix, the Joker movie only gets an emotional reaction like yours from people like Arthur Fleck.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two



Tell us, once again, how we should kill our bosses and steal everything they own, or how you're going to kill Trump and feed him to the pigs, Arthur.


Meanwhile, in reality...

I never once celebrated anything that Arthur Fleck did in that movie. He was NOT the good guy. It was an emotionally draining experience to sit through that movie because watching it made you so fucking uncomfortable your skin was crawling. That's because Joaquin Phoenix put on what is possibly one of the best acting performances that have ever been recorded on film.

Seriously. Stop throwing this around like it means something.

You're a fucking idiot, and you're the one who was going around telling everybody to kill themselves with your alternate Reaverfan handle.

I have the IP info to prove it.



--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

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Tuesday, December 14, 2021 7:52 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Seriously. Stop throwing this around like it means something.
6ix, you dumped your guts in front of everybody at fireflyfans.net about Joker, Covid-19, Trump and thousand other subjects. Your comment about Men Going Their Own Way was also very revealing about yourself and women. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men_Going_Their_Own_Way

Your wildly inappropriate belligerency is exactly what got Arthur Fleck thrown into Arkham Asylum for the Criminally Insane at the end of the Joker movie. (Not unexpected from 6ix or Arthur Fleck, but the last thing Arthur Fleck did in the movie was kill for no reason a woman working in Arkham and spreading her blood down the hallway with his footprints.)

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Tuesday, December 14, 2021 8:03 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Seriously. Stop throwing this around like it means something.
6ix, you dumped your guts in front of everybody at fireflyfans.net about Joker, Covid-19, Trump and thousand other subjects. Your comment about Men Going Their Own Way was also very revealing about yourself and women. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men_Going_Their_Own_Way

Your wildly inappropriate belligerency is exactly what got Arthur Fleck thrown into Arkham Asylum for the Criminally Insane at the end of the Joker movie. (Not unexpected from 6ix or Arthur Fleck, but the last thing Arthur Fleck did in the movie was kill for no reason a woman working in Arkham and spreading her blood down the hallway with his footprints.)

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two



Whatever you say, Arthur.

I've got plenty of your receipts on file.

I would strongly suggest you take control of yourself for once in your life and refrain from throwing stones from the basement of that little glass house your parents own.



--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

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Tuesday, December 14, 2021 9:03 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Justice Kavanaugh had sounded eager to prevent states from nullifying constitutional rights. Why did he change his mind?

During oral arguments over S.B. 8, the Texas abortion ban that empowers vigilantes to sue clinics and their “abettors” for a $10,000 bounty, Justice Brett Kavanaugh appeared to understand the state’s cynical game. S.B. 8, Kavanaugh explained, is a brazen effort to work around Supreme Court precedent, with ramifications for many other rights favored by conservatives. He brought up an amicus brief filed by the Firearms Policy Coalition, which opposed S.B. 8 out of fear that blue states could deploy the same strategy against gun rights. “This will easily become the model for suppression of other constitutional rights,” the justice said, quoting from the brief. “And it could be free speech rights,” he continued. “It could be free exercise. … It could be Second Amendment rights if this position is accepted here.” By the end of arguments, I anticipated that the justice would vote to let federal courts block S.B. 8 — not because he supported abortion rights, but because he grasped the existential threat that Texas’ law posed to his court’s authority.

I was wrong. On Friday, the Supreme Court released its decision on S.B. 8, and this circumspect, principled version of Kavanaugh had vanished. Instead, the justice threw in with the four other hard-line conservatives, shielding Texas’ attorney general and state court clerks from federal suit. His vote will likely prevent federal courts from halting S.B. 8, forcing abortion clinics to remain shuttered for fear of ruinous lawsuits. Kavanaugh did not bother to explain why he sided with the far-right flank of the court, joining a willfully obtuse opinion that trivialized S.B. 8’s radical departure from legal tradition. But his pre-SCOTUS record suggests one possibility that bodes poorly for Roe v. Wade’s survival: Kavanaugh will never cast a vote that authorizes a single abortion.

Kavanaugh’s hostility to abortion has been evident since he served on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit.

Four days after Kavanaugh ruled, the full D.C. Circuit vacated Kavanaugh’s decision. Kavanaugh’s performance in Garza v. Hargan was a successful audition for the Supreme Court, a demonstration of his zeal for eviscerating Roe v. Wade. Recently, during oral arguments in Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization, he all but announced that he would follow through, spurning the notion of a constitutional right to abortion access.

More at https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/12/brett-kavanaugh-dobbs-sb8-
abortion-texas.html

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Tuesday, December 14, 2021 11:27 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Geez. This thread really spiralled out of control in record time.

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Wednesday, December 15, 2021 3:36 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Geez. This thread really spiralled out of control in record time.
yeah, sorry, I derailed it!

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


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Wednesday, December 15, 2021 9:39 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Geez. This thread really spiralled out of control in record time.
yeah, sorry, I derailed it!
The thread got derailed immediately when 6ix wrote, "I do believe that abortion is murder." But then 6ix gives inconsistent reasons to let murder happen despite his belief. Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh has not yet written "I do believe that abortion is murder" but that statement is tacitly in every decision. Unlike 6ix, Kavanaugh's entire working life on the Supreme Court is absolutely consistent with "I do believe that abortion is murder."

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Wednesday, December 15, 2021 8:00 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:
Originally posted:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Geez. This thread really spiralled out of control in record time.
yeah, sorry, I derailed it!
The thread got derailed immediately when 6ix wrote, "I do believe that abortion is murder." But then 6ix gives inconsistent reasons to let murder happen despite his belief. Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh has not yet written "I do believe that abortion is murder" but that statement is tacitly in every decision. Unlike 6ix, Kavanaugh's entire working life on the Supreme Court is absolutely consistent with "I do believe that abortion is murder."
Hey, dummy. Try to get a clue.
6ix wrote that in the OP. It is not possible for the OP to derail the thread, numbnuts.

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Wednesday, December 15, 2021 8:25 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK




--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

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Thursday, December 16, 2021 8:01 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Oh... P.S., Sigs...

You want to talk about lies?

How about you backpedal right now about your statement that "the only reason I'm for choice is because of the vaccinations now"?

You know that's not true.

I know I'm extremely opinionated about how much the current system sucks and how men get fucked in the ass by everybody in Western society today, and I know I've said time and time again that I personally believe that abortion is murder...

But you will never find one single instance where I ever sided with Pro-Lifers.

Even on this issue which is VERY important to me, personally, I have never said that our Government should be the one who gets to decide on that issue. Never. Not once in my entire post history here from the mid-2000's.

--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

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Friday, December 17, 2021 11:33 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Here's the lie:

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

The ONLY reason why you're rethinking abortion is because "My body, my choice" affects YOU, personally, because of the vaccine mandate.


I'm not "rethinking" anything.

What I've stated in this thread is EXACTLY what I've always said about abortions.

--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

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Friday, December 17, 2021 11:49 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Here's the lie:

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

The ONLY reason why you're rethinking abortion is because "My body, my choice" affects YOU, personally, because of the vaccine mandate.


I'm not "rethinking" anything.

What I've stated in this thread is EXACTLY what I've always said about abortions.



Oh, THIS little gem??

You complained LONG and LOUD that your g/f had an abortion and didn't even tell you. You said you (and ALL men) should be part of the decision-making process bc, right now, all LEGAL rights belong to the woman.

Please let me know if I'm misrepresenting you in any way.

Therefore, your argument would go, men should have a LEGAL right in the baby-making decision. Therefore, you are against a WOMAN'S right to choose bc it should - partly- belong to the putative father.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


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Friday, December 17, 2021 11:55 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Here's the lie:

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

The ONLY reason why you're rethinking abortion is because "My body, my choice" affects YOU, personally, because of the vaccine mandate.


I'm not "rethinking" anything.

What I've stated in this thread is EXACTLY what I've always said about abortions.



Oh, THIS little gem??

You complained LONG and LOUD that your g/f had an abortion and didn't even tell you. You said you (and ALL men) should be part of the decision-making process bc, right now, all LEGAL rights belong to the woman.

Please let me know if I'm misrepresenting you in any way.

Therefore, your argument would go, men should have a LEGAL right in the baby-making decision. Therefore, you are against a WOMAN'S right to choose bc it should - partly- belong to the putative father.


Yes. The decision should belong to BOTH of the people who created the baby.

No. The GOVERNMENT should not be allowed to tell people that they cannot have an abortion.

It's a simple fucking concept. Don't get it twisted.


I'm not rethinking shit. I've ALWAYS said this, and I haven't changed my mind because of Covid either.


I'm SURE there have been divorces in the last two years over spouses arguing about getting vaccinated. This is unfortunate, but up until the government stepped in and attempted to mandate the vaccination and make it essentially a matter of life and death for workers AND their families, that decision for one party to either get vaccinated OR the other party to just accept that one of them won't get vaccinated OR that this is a deal breaker that needs a divorce was their OWN choices.

Once the government stepped in, it wasn't a choice about what they were doing with their own bodies between spouses anymore. It was one person deciding that they would no longer be able to pay bills anymore.



--------------------------------------------------

Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."

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Tuesday, December 21, 2021 1:05 PM

JAYNEZTOWN


Wishimay hated when I wrote anything on this type of topic. What I thought and still do think, Women in the West have it easy, some screech over nothing as their civilization decays while other women across the world are getting acid chucked in their face, its strange how rare you see Feminists speak out for the real people suffering oppression, the Western 4th Feminist can often come across as little more than a spoiled brat. On the religion thing, I don't really know religion, I know a little of it, Buddhist view concerning abortion was to say it was a negative thing, anti-life, Christianity often seen it as a crime ro sin or grave act as sexual immorality, classical Hindus would be strongly against Abortion, Judaism I think would shape-shift somewhat on the subject maybe thanks to that weird shit in the Babylon talmud, , Orthodox Jews I believe oppose abortion after the 40th day, in Shinto it might be bad karma or offend Japanese gods but I think the Japanese themselves these days are kinda Atheist, I'm not sure about the Korean pagan or folk religion communities, the Sikhs explicitly prohibit it in reglion and call it 'killing' and the Mohammedans, the islamic jihadi moslim well I've only read so much of that shit book the Quran or Koran but gtuess as to the type of person Moohammad was, if he wanted an Abortion I guess he'd just grab the women he was having sex with and do it the old fashioned way and just punch the crap out of her stomach to abort that unborn kid. The only types of people today who worship abortion seem to be some kind of Lunciferian Satanic weirdo church or maybe a bunch of creepy Atheists or maybe Nihilistic. Is a greedy self centered concept of Nihilism and Hedonism dominating the USA spiritually and culturally today?
The islamics on the other hand have simply weaponized the baby making business, they beat their women, kidnapp them with an AK-47 shoved into their face, arrange weddings or bondage or concubinage or weddings even if the women don't want...and yet despite all the Anti-Humanity and Anti-Feminist, anti-Democracy...they will export this ragheaded jihad beard islamo culture and people in the West will be importing this 'culture' to keep the population numbers up, and the Latinos and Latina, some Democrats are also happy they are in the baby making business.

Maybe part of my mindset is from a far past or maybe its an unseen future, in a post Apocalypse future like 'Mad Max' or something,
I had a response to this topic a while back it and drove 'WISHIMAY' crazy
Like I said before I don't see what the Obsession with exterminating kids is about or aborting un-born babies, it not as if there are not other choices out there such as the Pill or Condoms for Birth Control, I do see some form maybe such as the life of the mother being in danger or in the case of rape or abusive incest or something...I do not understand an obsession with terminating babies, in a ways its weird gross and very off putting...probably another reason as to why Men go 'Red Pill' or MGTOW and look overseas to women or marry overseas brides or whatever?
and its not as if Crocodiles or Wasps will be writing articles for the rights of human babies, or Hyenas or some other thing is going to come out and speak up for the life of the unborn human.

but like I said to Wishiway, I found the people of Sparta more interesting than your hedonist of today, nobody deserved a grave stone back then, only those who died for their civilisation, only Spartan women who lost their life bearing a kid, a woman who had died in childbirth and men who fought and died in a war or had died in battle were given a headstone or marked grave.

After her usual screeching and Feminist ranting, it took her a while to cool off and she went on her usual I don't care Hunter Biden embezzled a billion and had sexual bestiality relations with a dead donkey on film...it was difficult to have any kind of normal discourse with this woman

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Tuesday, December 21, 2021 1:50 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by JAYNEZTOWN:

I found the people of Sparta more interesting than your hedonist of today, nobody deserved a grave stone back then, only those who died for their civilisation, only Spartan women who lost their life bearing a kid, a woman who had died in childbirth and men who fought and died in a war or had died in battle were given a headstone or marked grave.
A little history of the Spartans: The Helots, whose name means “captives,” were fellow Greeks, originally from Laconia and Messenia, who had been conquered by the Spartans and turned into slaves. The Spartans’ way of life would not have been possible without the Helots, who handled all the day-to-day tasks and unskilled labor required to keep society functioning: They were farmers, domestic servants, nurses and military attendants.

Spartans, who were outnumbered by the Helots, often treated them brutally and oppressively in an effort to prevent uprisings. Spartans would humiliate the Helots by doing such things as forcing them to get debilitatingly drunk on wine and then make fools of themselves in public. (This practice was also intended to demonstrate to young people how an adult Spartan should never act, as self-control was a prized trait.) Methods of mistreatment could be far more extreme: Spartans were allowed to kill Helots for being too smart or too fit, among other reasons.

Unlike such Greek city-states as Athens, a center for the arts, learning and philosophy, Sparta was centered on a warrior culture. Male Spartan citizens were allowed only one occupation: soldier. . . .

In 371 B.C., Sparta suffered a catastrophic defeat at the hands of the Thebans at the Battle of Leuctra. In a further blow, late the following year, Theban general Epaminondas (c.418 B.C.-362 B.C.) led an invasion into Spartan territory and oversaw the liberation of the Messenian Helots, who had been enslaved by the Spartans for several centuries. The Spartans would continue to exist, although as a second-rate power in a long period of decline. In 1834, Otto (1815-67), the king of Greece, ordered the founding of the modern-day town of Sparti on the site of ancient Sparta.

More history of the Spartans at https://www.history.com/topics/ancient-history/sparta

The admiration of Sparta is known as Laconophilia. Philosopher Bertrand Russell wrote:

Sparta had a double effect on Greek thought: through the reality, and through the myth.... The reality enabled the Spartans to defeat Athens in war; the myth influenced Plato's** political theory, and that of countless subsequent writers.... [The] ideals that it favors had a great part in framing the doctrines of Rousseau, Nietzsche, and National Socialism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sparta

(For you who don't remember: National Socialism is Nazism. Unsurprising that the Nazis had slaves as did the Spartans.)

** “It is quite true that the history of philosophy is a series of footnotes on Plato, but in the last few centuries, many of these footnotes have been saying, ‘Notice how much harm this particular bad Platonic idea has done’.” -- Richard Rorty, ‘What is Dead in Plato’

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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Tuesday, December 21, 2021 2:11 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


JAYNZE..

Spartans practiced infanticide.

Abortion was well-known in ancient times, and practiced by ancient Greeks and "wise women" throughout history.

The latrines of houses of prostitution in Roman times were filled with the skeletons of aborted fetuses, and babies.

Jews did not consider a fetus to be alive until "quickening" - when a woman can feel the baby's movements- which doesn't occur until about the fifth month.

Once upon a time, there was a plant in N Africa that had such a high concentration of phytoestrogens (estrogen-like compounds produced by plants) that it was an effective form of birth control. But people, being people, over harvested the silphium plant which led to it's extinction.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


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Tuesday, December 21, 2021 2:39 PM

JAYNEZTOWN


It does not seem like the couple of Sparta Aborted the Kid while it was still inside the Pregnant woman.

The gossip story, the Rome-o-phile in old Greece, he doesnt like Sparta, he comes to write down, adds more horror and flavor to the thrilling tales, killing of the kids chucking them off a mountain

We have many sites of Ritual anicent killing in Mexico and South America, bruning or bleeding of poor peoples, the Human Sacrifice In Mesoamerica, in Africa in parts of Pagan Europe in Asia, in North America, in Arabia the bones of numerous infants have been found in Carthaginian archaeological sites in modern times, perhaps a god linked to gods desribed in North Africa and Arabia of Moloch or Cronus or Baal, in ancient Egypt death of a King he would be accompanied with servants, diggings in ancient China, revealed 80 skulls ritually buried underneath the city walls...the Bible tells stories of such times, in Hindu India, human sacrifice also and an antire culture of 'Thuggee' which gave us the English word 'Thug's and so much evidence for killings in other culture so why has this Sparta child site not been found in Greece, maybe there was no mass ritual on the side of a mountain, maybe they died while out hunting or camping or going through some rite?

The gossip for this one comes from the Greek boy lovers, they liked to have girl kids or the 'stories' would originate from Plutarch, the gossipy tinsel town pedophilies who lived some 600 years after Thermopylae. There was alleged site examined many hundreds of years after, it was said to be a site these murders on Taygetos, the site of Taygetus overlooks the cities of Sparti and Kalamata, it it had revealed many skeletons but only of adult males not infants. Plutarch might have been writing propaganda for Rome at the time or maybe there was a political conflict and he was writing in favor of another political movement or religious temple such as 'Apollo' why did he rename himself Lucius Mestrius Plutarchus, usually the Romans changed the Greek god names like Zeus and Jupiter or Venus and Aphrodite but for some reason, the ancient Romans never change Apollo's name. Maybe soem gods were more favored than others, some peoples of higher class than others. In parts of ancient Greece being a prostitute could have a Greek stripped of civil rights. The guy writing abot Sparta culture the Persian-Spartan War 400 BC his writings come hundreds of years after the Persian invasion of Greece, long after Battle of Thermopylae, he might have added in the child killing as part of a plan to make his stories more 'spooky' and thrilling, he doesn't seem to favor Sparta but instead is something of a Rome centrist guy.

The weird pedo shit is all over Greek culture, it seems to have been tolerated, I have never seen anything wrote the pedo shit in Sparta culture they were warriors not weirdos, in a ways the 'Spartans' might have been the more normal less perverted ones.

Maybe circumstance led to the gossip, a woman in ancient Greece would have borne many children – life is tough, war hard, food store is short, some of them die either due to infection or intentional exposure maybe due to sickness or plague or hunger or due to neglect. The Spartans threw criminals or traitor or invaders into a chasm of Taygetus known as Ceadas or Caeadas. Plutarch was a real person recorded in history, he wasn't gossip about killing kids, he wrote Plutarch had wrote a portrait of Numa Pompilius of Rome, he was possibly a homosexual, wasn't what one would consider a patriot and liked Rome instead of Greek culture, was interested in Egyptian worship of Isis and Osiris he was essayist, perhaps a gossiping lair and priest, he was no Spartan warrior, at the very most Plutarch would have visted a place that was once the glory fo Sparta but never actually saw of what he wrote, he was not a scientist nor a forensic detective and he was not an archaeologist he just repated and copied and wrote down other people's folklore and gossip. Most consider his writing to be a mix of falsehood, myth and fact, very 'controversial'. He could be interesting as a writer but Aristotle, Socrates and Plato and others seem far more interesting. In Greece during cheating or rape the man had legal right to kill the offender if caught in the act; the same went for rape. Cheats, Whores, Female adulterers, prostitutes, were all classed among the same thing and forbidden to marry or take part in public ceremonies ...although there might have been some ritual prostitute sacre sex cult like you had among Hindu Indians, Japanese or Pagans, 'sacred prostitution' or whatever its called, the prostitute was often a type of slave, the porn-nai were often captured slaves of barbarian origin. there were probably many Religion Sex Temples or Fertility Rituals, "companion" would be a higher class or higher paid prostitute and their was also Concubine. Aristotle was probably soemthing of a 'sexist' and criticized the Spartan state primarily for the power that their women had. Zeno of Citium although he was from Cyprus and Athens he probably would have been best suited to describe and examine peoples of Sparta, or maybe Democritean skeptical rational types like Pyrrho of Elis and his teacher Anaxarchus, could have recorded the stories of them without bias.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:


Your objection to abortion isn't moral, it's propertarian. Personally, I fail to see how a man can have ANY say in whether a woman carries a baby to term, or not.


Maybe the posts of 6ix will make sense after the Acceleration, after an Apoclaypse Doomsday

Womens Rights? ...Females are Property
The girl or a woman was the property of her father, the village wise witch elder or the female is worth about 5 sheep or 2 Cows, simply the propety of her husband

Quote:
Originally posted by second:

The Helots, whose name means “captives,” were fellow Greeks, originally from Laconia and Messenia, who had been conquered by the Spartans and turned into slaves.


Almost every place on Earth had slavery at one time almost every ancient culture took part in some kind of slave owing.
Maybe you think I'm American or something, however I fully believe in compulsory labor of imprisoned criminals or 'Penal labour'. You often accuse me of being another poster who I am not, some other users on fireflyfans. What do I know of this old place in anicnet time? I only know of what I read on anicent Spata and some of it can be taken with a pinch of salt maybe tales were exaggerated some events made bigger some made smaller, The Helots probably existed, they were probably Greek Hellenic but maybe 'Sparta' practiced some form of ethno-nationalism with a slave class, the Helots were not considered Spartans or Dorians.
Although I believe a prisoner should 'work' I believe Slavery is wrongt and multi-generational slavery is even more wrong. Spartans were not really democratic types like you see in the West, they could be hard warrior people or badass I guess, they also fall behind in learning as others progress, they lack allies and fall in the sciences and warfare.


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Spartans practiced infanticide.



It's possible it happened

On deformed and mentally unwell who would not be solider to farm not be able to fight, dying of exposure was one thing that happened.

perhaps a woman raped by a Persian maybe that was also a physical defect, I can not read ancient Greek and I'm not that up on ancient Greek history to call myself an expert

they also had a rite of passage, a kid sent out into the wild to survive among the wild animals just as the Native Americans did with their kids.

Quote:
Originally posted by second:

(For you who don't remember: National Socialism is Nazism. Unsurprising that the Nazis had slaves as did the Spartans.)


oh great this again, its not as if it isn't posted every damn week anyways





Ok cool National Socialism like SOCIALISM like COMMIE Socialists like COMMUNISM ... again you seem to think me someone else, some person who is an America maybe, its not as if you don't inject Red Blue America Nazi Germany Holocausting Hitler politics into every thread including now a discussion on the ancient world
Can you tell us other stories maybe about Yellows who owned Slaves or Blacks or owned Slaves or Jews and Arabs or moslim islamic Ottomans who owned slaves, or maybe go off tangent and talk about Pol-Pot and Video Games or Q-Anon or something?

Anyways back to your subject of Helot it seems its possible the people who destroyed them the most were Romans, perhaps the helotage first disappeared during the Roman Occuptaion Period, the entire peoples and language and culture and customs and history finally wiped out by Rome?

So in the end it was Rome that enslaved and killed them, not Sparta.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:


The latrines of houses of prostitution in Roman times were filled with the skeletons of aborted fetuses, and babies.




Rome is not Sparta nor is it Greece, the Spartans operated independent of the philosopher, the pedos, men with girl child brides, the boy lovers, poets...the Spartan was not really Greek nor was it a Roman.
for all Rome's glory and might it was defeated and sacked and invaded and declined many many times, Germanic Visigoths, the Celtic Gauls, the Vandals, Norman warlord Robert Guiscards, the Papal state wars, the Ostrogoths, wouild a glorious Rome have been able to stop Napoleon appointed to command the French Army of Italy an alien army which took the North and dozens of modern provinces down the leg of Italy, would a glorious Rome and Vatican have been able to stop Hitler coming down through the Austrian Alps in his tanks. The ancient Rome despite its Glorious days it also a hedonist corrupt shithole ridden by plagues corruption and degeneracy wrote deep into its past, perhaps much like we see NewYork or Washington or London or Amsterdam or Commiefornia of today. A society of 'Prostitutes' have rarely won wars, Spartan women were however more free and could legally own and inherit property and they were usually better educated than the elite class of Athens, most oldwritten sources on Sparta have their own bias are limited and largely from a non-Spartan viewpoint. I think it is very possible Spartans had some kind of selective breeding or ancient eugenic policies.


Maybe the prostitute is part of the debate, I read somewhere that the Prostitution worker of the world was likely had an average of almost 2 abortions per year, I'm not sure if that stat was for North America or the res of the world figures combined.


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Tuesday, December 21, 2021 3:44 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



"they also had a rite of passage, a kid sent out into the wild to survive among the wild animals just as the Native Americans did with their kids."

Native Americans had short-term tests of survival, and also 'vision quests' where they would go out to the wilderness to seek an understanding of their place in the world. What they did was nothing like what the Spartans did.

Sparta started with infanticide - any newborn deemed as less than robust would be set off to die in the wild. And that was just the beginning of a highly-fatal culling.

Quote:
https://www.history.com/news/sparta-warriors-training

According to the ancient Greek historian Plutarch, who wrote several centuries after Sparta’s heyday in the 400s B.C., Spartans began developing soldiers shortly after birth, when male infants were evaluated by Spartan elders. The “well-built and sturdy” children were allowed to live, while those who were deemed unhealthy or deformed were left at the foot of a mountain to die.

At age seven, Spartan boys were turned over by their parents to the state, where they were organized into companies that lived, studied and trained together.

“The boy who excelled in judgement and was most courageous in fighting was made captain of the company,” Plutarch wrote. “The rest all kept their eyes on him, obeying his orders and submitting to his punishments, so their boyish training was a practice of obedience.”

To toughen them up even more, Spartan boys were compelled to go barefoot and seldom bathed or used ointments, so that their skin became hard and dry, Plutarch wrote. For clothing, they were given just one cloak to wear year-round, to make them learn to endure heat and cold, and made their own beds from plants that they had to rip out of the ground with their bare hands from river banks.

According to Plutarch, as the young Spartans grew, they were required to exercise more and more to build their bodies. As Donald G. Kyle notes in his book Sport and Spectacle in the Ancient World, Spartan youth had to present themselves for regular inspections in the nude, and boys who didn’t look sufficiently fit were flogged.

In addition to foot races and wrestling, their sports included a particularly brutal contest in which two teams would try to drive each other off an island by pushing, kicking, biting and gouging their opponents, according to Kyle’s book.

To make life even tougher, Spartan boys were fed a meager diet. Xenophon, a philosopher and historian who lived from the late 400s to mid-300s B.C., noted that one purpose was to keep them slim, which Lycurgus, the founder of the Spartan system, believed would make them grow taller. But the boys’ hunger was also intended to embolden them to steal food from gardens and other places “in order to make the boys more resourceful in getting supplies, and better fighting men,” Xenophon wrote. But to make sure they learned cunning, boys who were caught stealing were whipped.

“Whipping was a test of courage and stoicism,” Reiter says. “Boys looked forward to the public display of their fortitude.”

Strictly speaking, the Agoge didn’t include military training, which didn’t start in earnest until they became adult soldiers.

According to Plutarch, Spartans continued regular military training throughout their adult lives. “No man was allowed to live as he pleased, but in their city, as in a military encampment, they always had a prescribed regimen,” he wrote. As Cartledge writes in Spartan Reflections, it wasn’t until age 60 that Spartans finally were allowed to retire from the army—provided that they lived that long.

The Spartan emphasis on individual fitness through a severe weeding-out process gave them a declining population. And their insistence on rigid conformity, enforced through severe punishment, made them inflexible and hampered creative problem-solving off the battlefield and on it.

In any case, Sparta depended heavily on post-birth abortions (we'd call it murder) to maintain the physical purity of its population.

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Tuesday, December 21, 2021 3:54 PM

JAYNEZTOWN


Whatever accounst we have it is still a lot different than killing an unborn child isnide the womb.

History a broken jigsaw puzzle and years later we get to try attempt to piece something back together before it all gets scattered by the sands of time.

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:



According to the ancient Greek historian Plutarch


I know this already, I quote him above and I've read him and I have already expalined to you why he might not be the best source but go ahead and quote his writing if you wish

Thanks for the history dom com quote anyways

Keep in mind he's not Spartan and he was a 'writer' he might have added flavor to the story just as Hollywood likes to add in stuff when it does a based-on-events DVD or block buster movie.

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:



Native Americans had short-term tests of survival, and also 'vision quests' where they would go out to the wilderness to seek an understanding of their place in the world. What they did was nothing like what the Spartans did.


Again I have told you a lot of what was wrote on acient Greece and Sparta of that time came hundreds of years after Sparta so while it might be true we can not be 100% certain it is truth or if it is a mix of truth, and fairytales and gossip and mythology.

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:

In addition to foot races and wrestling, their sports included a particularly brutal contest in which two teams would try to drive each other off an island by pushing, kicking, biting and gouging their opponents, according to Kyle’s book.


The Biting and Gouging seems like bullshit, nobody trains or does sport to collect long term severest form of injury. combat sports were dangerous but the biting and gouging on the edge of some island cliff seems to ridiculous to be true, some might survive a grevious injury and still be a solder but most of the time a warrior with fingers bitten off or an eye gouged out is pretty much a near useless person.

Writers in any period liked to add their own hollwyood horror movie flavor to an ancient story that was already brutal

Boxing, Chariot racing, diskos and javelin throwing and Wrestling were all real sports

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
The Spartan emphasis on individual fitness through a severe weeding-out process gave them a declining population.


It's possible it happened, however we don't know... we do know for sure there was a Roman conquest of Ancient Greece in the 2nd century BC long after Sparta's peak, the Greek peninsula gets assimilated or defeated or falls to the Roman Republic and digging up around the sites of ancient Greece today all we have are writing of Sparta and we have a mountain side where a bunch of foreign alien criminals or traitors were thrown from

Sparta even though it had rivals was subject of considerable admiration in its day, even in rival Greek city state of Athens. I do not doubt they may have practiced some form of infanticied in Sparta or weeding out or eugenics but little evidence has yet to be found

all we have are the writings of some weirdo many years later who dressed in Roman clothes, and liked Egypt culture more than his own heritage from Greece, all of it almost lost to time it become part of the Roman the Byzantine Empire, the Fourth Crusade, a more imperial war rather than a counter attack to islam and it was gradually conquered by the Frankish Principality of Achaea, finally it falls to Turkish moslem Ottomans, a history of crushing defeats, a new Greek state reborn hundreds of years after Greek War of Independenc or the Greek Revolution and a rebiorth of their own history perhaps?

La storia è scritta dai vincitori, la historia fue anotada por los Campeones ganadores
something like that said by Winston Churchill

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Tuesday, December 21, 2021 4:04 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



https://spartareconsidered.blogspot.com/2011/11/infanticide-in-sparta-
and-athens.html

Most ancient Greek families were small. We do not hear of families with dozens of children as in the Middle Ages. Contemporary literature from comic opera to court documents make the notion of widespread sexual abstinence an unlikely explanation of the low birthrates. On the contrary, despite the ready availability of slaves, prostitutes and concubines, Greek literature, comedy, philosophy and legal proceedings assume frequent sexual contact between men and their wives. Birth control therefore had to come from contraception or infanticide. The documentary evidence is that infanticide in the form of abortions and exposure of unwanted infants after birth were the only effective contraceptive known in ancient Greece.


Historians hypothesize that at a woman in ancient Greece would have borne on average 4 to 6 children – and watched 2 to 4 of them die either due to intentional exposure or due to neglect. Most of those neglected/murdered infants would have been female because ancient Greek society was misogynous. Women were considered mentally and physically inferior to men, and they were a financial burden because they required dowries. In societies today with similar attitudes (Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, east Africa, traditional China), female fetuses are more likely to be aborted, and female infants are more likely to die of neglect. It is estimated that 2 million female infants die each year because they are unwanted. The Greek comic poet Posidippus put it this way: “Everybody raises a son even if he is poor, but exposes a daughter even if he is rich.”


In short, exposing unwanted children was a common (not to say universal) practice in ancient Greece. What shocked male commentators from the rest of Greece about the Spartan practice was that 1) it applied to males rather than (worthless) females, and 2) it was left to the state (elders of the tribe) rather than the father to decide a infant’s fate. It was not the fact of murdering children that other Greeks found offensive, but the fact that a father did not have absolute control over the fate of his sons. In Sparta and Sparta alone, an outsider (a tribal elder) could interfere in a father’s despotic control over his own family.


None of this makes the Spartan practice of murdering “unworthy” infants more palatable. It is and remains an aspect of Spartan society that I too find alienating. But I would welcome more recognition of the fact that infanticide was not one of the aspects of Spartan society that made it “weird” and different from the rest of Greece. Infanticide was the norm throughout ancient Greece – including in “enlightened” Athens.

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Tuesday, December 21, 2021 4:21 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


"for all it's glory and might, Rome was defeated"

So was Sparta.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake


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Tuesday, December 21, 2021 4:28 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.




interesting article:

https://www.abc.net.au/religion/early-christianitys-resistance-to-infa
nticide-and-exposure/10898016

[e]xposure was widespread in the ancient world, where reliable means of preventing conception were not widely used and abortion was a dangerous undertaking for the mother."

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Tuesday, December 21, 2021 4:34 PM

JAYNEZTOWN


The thoughts on exposure to element...Greek also worshipped Earth, Air, Water and Fire as fundamental elements so maybe this was some sort of test to see if the kid was going to be 'fit' the exposure story makes a lot more sense than some big sacrifice ritual of throwing kids off a mountain, it sounds like some other fairytale or real story from another part of the world make taken and a part of Greece was forced to make this fake hoax story their own. We live in different times now so it might be difficult to see and understand old and ancient mankind almost having this fitness test like a pack of Wolves or Lions or Bison do to their weaker young, abandoning them to nature, maybe this truly was society's response to the birth of an unhealthy or impaired newborn as the 1KIKI linked article points out, the childs soul perhaps had not been welcomed into the family, it had not gone through ritual baptism or purification and naming, the child was still an outsider waiting to pass some cruel rite test, one might even ask was the story of Moses in a basket common in ancient times as exposed infants were picked up by others or raised as adopted kids into a family that 'found a baby', maybe the family poor or maybe the baby judged not fit enough.

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:

Most of those neglected/murdered infants would have been female because ancient Greek society was misogynous.


Greek not Sparta

Do not confuse the two

Digging up the past and examination it was found the Female Spartan baby were as well fed as their male counterparts – in contrast to Athens, where it was male dominated and the boys were better fed than girls – the woman was an important maker of people, they were kept healthy in order to have physically fit women to carry future children and give birth to the future generation.


Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:

[e]xposure was widespread in the ancient world, where reliable means of preventing conception were not widely used and abortion was a dangerous undertaking for the mother."



So once again the average Greece is not Sparta and Sparta is not Greece, yet is it then unlikley the Spartan would kill a child in the womb... there was poet Lysias who suggested that abortion a crime against the husband, if his wife was pregnant, since his unborn child could have claimed the estate.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:


So was Sparta.





Yup by Rome, the nature of War changes in time from more simple tribes chucking spears or punching and wrestling as animals do or banging each other on the head with club, it becomes a planned strateic shifting 'game' of sorts Phalanx, Carriage, Formations, Cavalry, Archery, War ships and Siege and Catapult, when two warriros are of near equal strength the superior tech and superior strategist will win. The Romans were experts in war and studied the Greeks very well, they studied all their best enemies, it can be argued that Rome was never really conquered but always feel from within, the Romans can't claim credit for their first defeat that came at the hands of the Greek Boeotia Thebes a clever battle strategy that exposed a wing of their lined up troops. I don't think the allegations of 'Sparta Abortionists' matter much here, I don't think any idea of Abortions in Sparta had really anything to do with Fall of the Western Roman Empire, the ancient Sparta was long dead by that time.

Second mentions the 'Thebans' in an above post, it might have been a lot more relevant and readable if Second had not put this Red Blue Democrat Antifa Nazi political crap into it.

Like I said before I enjoyed the writings of historian Plutarch but he comes hundreds of years after and I take his story of kids getting chucked off a mountain with a pinch of salt because he was a Rome-o-phile.

Also a lot of Greeks were weird but I think the Spartans were ok, even if they fell behind when it came to reading and the science of war.

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Tuesday, December 21, 2021 4:36 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Basically, while the description of a practice of examining infants for fitness, and the naming of an actual site for death by exposure may have been confabulations, the rest if it seems credible by various types of evidence; including death by exposure, and the rearing of male children in the agoge.

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Tuesday, December 21, 2021 10:42 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:
In any case, Sparta depended heavily on post-birth abortions (we'd call it murder) to maintain the physical purity of its population.
post-birth abortions (we'd call it murder)

What a whopper of a lie.

Rational, reasonable, ethical and moral folk call this infanticide by the factual term Murder.
Libtards and other Democraps absolutely demand that Post-birth Murder be called "abortion" in America.

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Tuesday, December 21, 2021 11:56 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Carthaginians actually sacrificed newborns to the god(s).

There's an interesting take I linked - the difference between setting an infant out in the wild v killing it. There was some slight chance someone would pick up the infant and take it home, so it wasn't as final as outright killing. It was even accounted for in the laws of the time - the foundling child retained the status of its birth parents, if parentage could be proved in the future.

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Wednesday, December 22, 2021 7:37 AM

JAYNEZTOWN


Maybe the reason I like Sparta and other cultures is its an Unknown its like a Mystery, something yet to be dug up and sloved, even in fiction 'Murder on the Orient Express' everyone loves a good mystery and Greece and Egypt and India and China and Rome and so many other places have so many things waiting to be dug up and solved. You try to figure out what the women and men were really like from an almost forgotten time.

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:

Carthaginians actually sacrificed newborns to the god(s).



The previous Canaanites of Arabia might have worshiped some of the very same gods, Moloch and Baal (ba'al) were some of the previous gods. They would have made contact with anicnet Empire of Babylonian and Persian, they had an old Israelite culture but the Jewish texts or Bible also them as a group which the Israelites had annihilated with this Baal god of Arabia moving from the Levant Northwest Semitic of Arabia and morphing into Phoenician god Baal Hammon of North Africa, thye might have exported or imported some culture into Egypt as they invaded Egypt and the Canaanite also had sarcophagi. There is much evidence and site found that support the finds of mass sacrifice in other ancient culture

but Sparta we don't have any exact evidence of any site in Sparta of Greece, some might be 'confabulations' as you say


Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:


What a whopper of a lie.



So here's a thought and reply revisited

Quote:
Originally posted by 1KIKI:


Native Americans had short-term tests of survival, and also 'vision quests' where they would go out to the wilderness to seek an understanding of their place in the world. What they did was nothing like what the Spartans did.


As parts of this world collapse other parts of our entire world might become one big collective nanny state. What age did you first go camping by yourself, at what age did your grandparents first go out to work in the field or hunt or camp by themselves, did their great grandparnets also hunt or explore or work, maybe they were nomadic no place to call a home. Or perhaps there were in prisons or slaves or it was atime when people went to war, or was Child labour cruel? Was it wrong to have a kid inside a workhouse or texttile mill or is it unfair today to have child work practiced by Amish children?

If an American in Alaska were to send a bunch of young kids out with a tent by themselves 'camping' not defenseless but with supplies a pistol let's say, they are alone by themselves for the weekend...something happens, one breaks a leg let's say....and suddenly liberal or conservative tv and radio get the story...would the parents be charged with something, what kind fo charges would the media want thrown at them...abuse perhaps, neglect, attempted murder? What of Native Americans living on current reservation lands, is any of the old culture allowed, are these young allowed to take part in hunts, fishing by themselves or horse culture or journeys or short term tests of survival, if one of their Native kids died on some test or travelers trail and CNN or Fox got the story, would they call it a killling or infanticide or murder or something?

I do agree that setting an infant out in the wild was brutual, it was cold-hearted, a death sentence. However these days most of us kind of live Pampered lives, most men rarely lived behond 30 in old times. We have no idea what it was to live in that time even as a seller, utterly depending on selling your fruit at the market. The fruit are bad this year, you had to fight off bandits hand to hand and just made it out of an almost dark winter when that Fire Mountain started exploding again. Others of you fleed and lived that a damp cave, half of you are now suffering fever and sickness with a pack of wild dogs and some big animal trying to chase you down, we don't really see a world of mass stavation, sickness and plagues and crop failures, total wars where one tribe or civilisation would almost utterly annihilate or subjugate another enemy civilisation. I guess we get glimpses of the mindset as we see collapse in Yemen caused also by mordern high tech weapons, or what the Tigray Region of Ethiopia is facing or what ISIS did to the Yezidi ...but we don't really see the past or what it was truly like, we just have broken pieces of a jigsaw puzzle we try putting back together. Also in those times people were highly superstitious, they believed in folklore and demons and ghosts and spirits and the supernatural was almost always used to explain events rather than rational thinking or logic, the Spartans seem more driven by passion and cultural heritage rather than Aristotle's influence of scientific reason and debate. Socrates again is a person were we read gossip and secondhand information, he did not write any texts so instead or knowledge of him comes from scholars, including Plato, Aristotle and Xenophon ... the problem of 'Sparta' is the history of Sparta seems to be recorded by some weird Greek guy who prefered to dress in Roman clothes and he wrote down the story hundreds of years after the Theban–Spartan War, hundreds of years after Sparta's Battle of Thermopylae.

If for example somehow by magic America destroyed itself with some doomsday technovirus or yellow stone Volcano goes boom and wipes out America or something else, do you think the Russians, the Iranians, the Saudi, the Mexicans, the Chinese, the French do you think all these people would accurately record what the USA was and keep these records in perfect condition for the next thousand years, or would each other nation and state put their own propaganda spin on it all? ...Even if you took people connected to America and got them out and had them describe the USA's history how would Piers Morgan or Rush Limbaugh or 'PirateNews' remember America? That's why I don't trust the poet historian writer Plutarch, he wrote 'stories' and I don't think of him as a true Greek, he liked foreign things, he lived a long and comfortable life with lof of fruit and wine and bread and dies aged 73–74, he was involved in politics and politicians have been making up stories since the dawn of time, he dressed in Rome clothes, took a Roman name and was something of a Rome-o-phile, the religious temple he followed as one of the few not to be 're-imagined' by the Romans.

I can't make excuses for putting a kid out in the cold, it just seems wrong but 'tests' or rite of passage, or testing a young person's fitness or health in a strange ways it makes sense if you put that mindset into another time.

But like I said the hedonists of today mostly bore me, 4th waves feminists wanting open borders and bringing in hordes of islamists, it makes no logical sense.
I find mystery of people of Sparta more interesting than your drug chasing highs and hedonism of today, nobody deserved a grave stone back in those days only those who died for their civilisation, only the Spartan women who died in childbirth and men who died out there in service fighting for their people and civilisation.

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