THE FORSAKEN - Burning Bridges by PhoenixRose

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

So there's been a bit of nastiness this week, both on and off the site. We should leave that behind now and party!

Pretty, isn't it?

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 4:07 AM

ODDSBODSKINS

the burning bridge is falling down, falling down, falling down,
the burning bridge is falling down, fair, for-saken!

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 4:09 AM

SIMONWHO

Aaargh. Now I have that Status Quo song in my head.

Damn right you should be damned.

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 4:09 AM

So guess what I'm doing this Saturday?

I've been "volunteered" to officiate the opening and closing ceremonies at a Harry Potter School of Witchcraft camp, as well as teach two classes on basic and intermediate Spells and Charms!

How cool is that?

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 4:16 AM

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

SHINY, Paul!

An insincere and evil friend is more to be feared than a wild beast; a wild beast may wound your body, but an evil friend will wound your mind. - Gautama Siddharta

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 4:59 AM

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

GrrrrrrSnarl...
Paul! Would you ever date a Christian?

An insincere and evil friend is more to be feared than a wild beast; a wild beast may wound your body, but an evil friend will wound your mind. - Gautama Siddharta

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 5:10 AM

What an odd question!

Short answer: yes I would.

Longer explanation: 1st wife was Jewish. 2nd wife was Methodist. 3rd wife was Neo-Pagan. It really doesn't matter if two people believe differently, as long as they respect each other's beliefs. If I were with someone who thought Paganism was "Devil Worship!" or thought it was just a complete joke, we wouldn't be together for very long.

Now, why do you ask, PR? One of your boys a christian?

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 5:21 AM

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

No, not really. But someone contacted me today who was Christian, 30, and black, and I kind of asked the Imponderables how I should respond to the question "Do you date black men" because that obviously would not be my problem with him. I said I couldn't date a Christian because my beliefs are very, very important to me and they tend to clash with Christianity (in almost all its forms) so I don't think it would work long-term. A random person kind of jumped down my throat about it, compared it to saying I could enver date and Asian, which I think is ridiculous and it pissed me off. I would want to be very open with anyone I was in an intimate relationship, and I wouldn't want to fight about fundamental beliefs; it's just not attractive to me. I, personally, can't just not talk about such things, so I nearly always end up fighting with Christians over something. I can have casual friends, but not close friends or romantic partners if I can't talk about those things. I tried to make the point that it was me personally and it was a fact of myself and my life and they jumped down my throat again. So I just wanted to know what your take might be, as a fellow Pagan.
Maybe it's my problem. I've just never met a Christian that didn't have some belief that made me want to tear my hair out. As long as whatever it was wasn't broached, no problem, but spend enough time with someone and it will be, so there have been problems.
And I'm a little irked that someone would be telling me what would and wouldn't work for me.

An insincere and evil friend is more to be feared than a wild beast; a wild beast may wound your body, but an evil friend will wound your mind. - Gautama Siddharta

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 5:26 AM

TRISTAN

______________________________________

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 5:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
...and I wouldn't want to fight about fundamental beliefs;

Gotcha. There are some christians out there that don't wish to fight either, but since it's a "missionary" religion and they believe that it's their responsibility to "spread the word" and "save your soul" they are admittedly few and far between.

Usually when I get a radical christian trying to "save me" I just give them examples from their own bible that prove that Paganism is the true way.

In fact, the Jehovah’s Witnesses had me on their "Do Not Contact" list for several years because they lost too many of their converts after they knocked on my door and I invited them to come into the house and talk for a while. Gotta love that!

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 5:34 AM

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

*awe and admiration*

Teach me, oh great one!

An insincere and evil friend is more to be feared than a wild beast; a wild beast may wound your body, but an evil friend will wound your mind. - Gautama Siddharta

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 5:42 AM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.

---

Go to http://richlabonte.net/tvvote/ and vote Firefly!

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 6:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
*awe and admiration*
Teach me, oh great one!

LOL! It’s really not that big a deal. All it takes is to actually read the bible with an open mind.

The basic gist of my explanation is that there are two separate and contradictory creation stories in the book of Genesis.

The first creation story documents how all the Gods and Goddesses gathered together and performed the Great Creation, the 7 day create-a-thon, which culminated in Them creating men and women together as equals, and giving them “dominion over the birds of the air, the fish of the sea, the beasts of the earth,” etc. This is the famous “Let US create man in OUR image, in OUR likeness,” quote. It’s the only time the bible uses the plural in reference to god, so don’t try to explain it as the royal “we” since it’s not used anywhere else.

Now skip ahead a bit, and we get to the second creation, in which a single god goes off by himself in secret and creates a man and a woman (no where does it say Adam and Eve were the first ones). These poor, less than perfect beings were never given dominion over anything, and were created with the sole purpose of worshiping this single vain god.

This also explains why when Cain slays his brother Able, there is an entire city for him to run off to. This city is populated by the children of the first creation, who took pity on this poor lost soul and welcomed him into their community, where he proceeded to spread his own “original sin” throughout the population via his descendants.

Since the descendants of the second creation have no dominion over the earth, when we children of the original population demonstrate our God and Goddess given abilities we are labeled as witches and burned at the stake by the jealous children of the second.

The Pagans are the original population, and the Christians (descendants of Adam and Eve) came later with lesser abilities. This is all according to their own bible.

There’s a lot more to it, and many more examples of the single god being petty and cruel (the same god who lied to Adam and Eve in the garden - the snake actually told the truth!), but that’s the basic gist of the explanation.

We are the true people. We are the way. So says their own bible.

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 6:33 AM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.

You're my new hero, PaganPaul!
---

Go to http://richlabonte.net/tvvote/ and vote Firefly!

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 6:37 AM

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

You are so totally my hero!
I've tried to read the bible. Hurts my brain, it really does. I know it's supposed to be symbolism and stuff, and I wanted to read it just so I could really debate it, but I couldn't get very far. Much admiration to you for even wading through it all; the archaic language if nothing else! And that breakdown was just... Wow. Can you do that with the whole book?
I need to go to bed...

An insincere and evil friend is more to be feared than a wild beast; a wild beast may wound your body, but an evil friend will wound your mind. - Gautama Siddharta

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 6:46 AM

Gosh Forsaken, lots going on.

Had something to say, but it suddenly got very busy. PP and PR, you guys are great. We share differing beliefs that are so similar.
Peace to y'all and have a great day you wonderful Forsaken Pagan Browncoats!

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 9:12 AM

See now PR I am christian, but my husband is an athiest and we've never had a problem. I believe what I want and he believes what he wants and it's all good. I don't need my SO to be on my page, just acknowledge my page is there and leave it intact:)Plus I can accept that we both might be right or both wrong or whatever. I am irish so I do also think that pagans aren't exactly wrong. You can't go to Ireland and not see
However, if I were on a dating site and a guy in his approach said he was christian, I'd assume it was a big deal to him and be less interested and all so I can easily see why you wouldn't be comfy with that. Is your religion posted as well? 'Cause it's interesting that he contacted you if he knows you're pagan:)

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 10:27 AM

TRISTAN

In the famous words of our beloved Captain, "...huh!"
I have, for the most part, gotten along with everybody I have met of differing religious beliefs. It's nice to know we can do the same here, without preaching at each other or naysaying each others' beliefs. And we are the labeled "Forsaken". Odd, ain't it?

______________________________________

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 10:46 AM

Tristan- I think that's because most religions have some sort of us against them exclusionary feature and those of us who are very accepting kinda mess that up:)

Hey my nephew is in the newspaper... My sister in law takes him to a baby sign language class ( it helps toddlers because their vocab hasn't caught up with their brain by letting them communicate)and they did a feature in the paper:)

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 12:27 PM

Time to go home, pack up a few more boxes, take 'em to the apartment, and then grab some shut eye.

G'night, FORSAKEN! See you all in the a.m...

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 5:32 PM

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

Good morning (evening) Forsaken!
Differing similar beliefs... See that is totally shiny!
The dating profiles always have religion listed. No, mine does not say Pagan because Pagan is not an option on these sites, so I am listed as "other religion". While I could have said Buddhist, that isn't entirely accurate, so I thought I'd just leave it at "Other". You can say "New Age" if you want, but that always offended me so I don't use that option...
There are certain Christians I can get along with just fine. I've even known Christian Witches (though I still think they're a little weird, they can be pretty cool) so, y'know, I get how it can work sort of. And I try to be tolerant, I really do, but it amazes me sometimes how cloudy a religion can make a person's thinking.
For example, just as an example, my mom has this friend, knew him in college, just recently got back in touch with him. He's a PhD, he was an Existentialist in college, he's a very clever, very smart man and he writes all kinds of books, mostly about Jung. Somewhere along the line, he converted to Mormonism, which absolutely blew my mom's mind when she found out. She says that he'll send her his books sometimes, looking for feedback, and they're always very clear and well-written, and then the text just stumbles because he's tried to insert something from his faith that makes no sense. And he always thanks her for pointing it out to him, and admits that he's forcing it, and yet he keeps doing it.
Cloudy thinking; gets all tangled with everything else.
... I'm not sure what my point is, but I know I have one!
Anyway, while I can get along with people of many faiths, I can never be my whole entire self around all of them, which would be important in a relationship.
I guess that was my point. Sorry to get all heavy.

An insincere and evil friend is more to be feared than a wild beast; a wild beast may wound your body, but an evil friend will wound your mind. - Gautama Siddharta

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 6:59 PM

JOSSISAGOD

Okay, This thread has lost me. I'm really no good with discussions about religion. While I respect others views I can't really get into a conversation about religion, that doesn't envolve one person or the other getting huffy(usually me). I have a lot of closed minded people where I live, and I have never encountered one that I can openly discuss religion with, without them getting all upity and trying to convert me, if I don't share their views.

Edit: hey, WOW, I've just darkened the contrast on my screen, and it made the flames in my sig, and Pheonix's stand out even more!

JOSSIS(Most Definitely)AGOD

Self appointed Forsaken! Been on the list for a while now!

98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature.
"Look at me, I'm STUPID!" The Doctor.

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Tuesday, August 15, 2006 11:07 PM

*yawn*

I could join in the weighty religious conversation, but it's 10am here and I slept in this morning and am in dire need of coffee.

*turns the contrast on her PC down* Oooh! Fire pretty!

Good luck to all the Irish teens who get their Leaving Certificate results today!

*wanders off in search of coffee*

More animations available at http://desktophippie.googlepages.com

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Wednesday, August 16, 2006 3:18 AM

Boy this thead is dead today.

*dances all by herself*

More animations available at http://desktophippie.googlepages.com

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Wednesday, August 16, 2006 3:27 AM

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

*tears up some applications and throws them in the fire*
Job hunting is my least favorite activity. It takes forever and I'm always afraid I'll write the wrong thing or make an error. Grrr. Arrg.

Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. - Gautama Siddharta

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Wednesday, August 16, 2006 4:10 AM

G'mornin FORSAKEN!

OK, I didn't mean to turn this into The Religious Debate thread (even though we are FORSAKEN and got our start by being damned by TRS), so if anyone else has questions and/or comments of a religious nature, please feel free to send them directly to me instead of posting to the thread.

Now that we've got that resolved...

LET'S DANCE!

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Wednesday, August 16, 2006 5:34 AM

JOSSISAGOD

Good Morning Forsaken!

It just so happens that I've brought the most massive Forsaken coffee pot any one has ever seen.

*JIAG comes into the thread dragging said coffee pot.*

JOSSIS(Most Definitely)AGOD

Self appointed Forsaken! Been on the list for a while now!

98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature.
"Look at me, I'm STUPID!" The Doctor.

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Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:06 AM

MMM, Coffee. Thanks.

Howdy to all the Forsaken. Guess the partyin' needs a boost.

Maybe some Baileys for the coffee.

Oh yeah, thats the stuff.

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Wednesday, August 16, 2006 7:27 AM

TRISTAN

Afternoon, fellow Forsaken!
I am, unfortunately, stuck on the front desk today...receptionist is out and I drew the short straw. I'll be posting when I can!
In the meantime...coffee! Thank you JIAG!

______________________________________

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Wednesday, August 16, 2006 10:45 AM

WHIMSICALNBRAINPAN

Joins The Forsaken dragging in a keg of a fine microbrewed ale. She pigs out on chocolate and then dances around the fire but at a safe distance.

"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." http://whimsicalnbrainpan.blogspot.com/

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Wednesday, August 16, 2006 11:10 AM

ok so a leaving certificate would be like a GCSE or like a GCSE 6th form?

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

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Wednesday, August 16, 2006 11:19 AM

It's more like the SATs. It's a set of exams that everyone must take in their final year of secondary (high) school. You sit exams in at least five subjects (some subjects like English, Irish and Maths have two exam papers) and receive points based on your grades. Colleges and Universities give all their courses point levels, and if you've applied for that course you have to achieve the set number of points in order to be accepted.

There aren't usually interviews or anything like that as most colleges and universities are run by the department of education, so they handle all the applications through something called the Central Applications Office. When students apply to university here they basically fill out one form listing all the courses they're interested in applying for. Third level education is free in Ireland. Well, mostly free. Your first degree or diploma is free, except for administration fees which, while pricey, are nothing like actual university fees, and of course you have to buy your books and materials too.

If you go to a private college or if you go on to postgraduate level then you have to pay your own way. But it's still a heck of a lot cheaper here than in the US.

More animations available at http://desktophippie.googlepages.com

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Wednesday, August 16, 2006 11:30 AM

wow that's a wonderful system. We have so many kids here who don't bother to take advanced classes or even to work their hardest in school because they know there is no chance they could afford college. Such a waste of potential. Of course as an example if you'd like to be a teacher and you work really hard in school you can take out a large student loan ( average of $35,000 usd) and go to college. In order to graduate you have to student teach which requires you to spend 3 months unpaid working as a teacher ( and you'll have to quit whatever job you did hold to do it) then you get hired by a district who will send you to trainings all summer ( so you can't work then) and then you start teaching. Now the way the pay system works the first paycheck a teacher gets is on the first of October. So this poor new teacher (who has been unable to have any paid job for 6 months) has to wait a further 2 months for the first paycheck..making a grand total of 8 months with no source of income what so ever... now to add a bit of insult your health coverage ( no universal health remember) starts in Novemeber and you only have 6 months after you graduate before student loans come due so big bills are piling up during this 8 months without any income..
OK this is a long post. I am just feeling really sorry for the newly graduated teacher we hired. She and her husband have been surviving on his tiny part time job income ( he's still in college)for 8 months and they went on about needing new clothes to be "professional" and she sat down and cried because she can't even afford to eat meat more than twice a month.

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

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Wednesday, August 16, 2006 11:32 AM

so of course we took her shopping ( we may not get paid much, but we all had a bit to spare) and got her a few basics ( nice suit, nice skirt, nice pants, and a good pair of shoes)to tide her over until October.

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

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Wednesday, August 16, 2006 11:40 AM

Chocolate and beer.
Thought I was the only one.
Any other takers.

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Wednesday, August 16, 2006 11:49 AM

The Irish system is not perfect by any means - the points race puts terrible pressure on teens, and there are still issues with many students that simply can't afford third level education - but it is much, much better than the American way of doing things. And the UK way recently, since they ~had~ free third level education and then scrapped it! Unforgiveable, in my book. Free education and free healthcare are my biggest soapboxes. I just cannot stomach a system where whether you go to university or whether you get treatment when you're sick is based on whether or not you have money. It goes against everything I believe in.

Oh yeah, we have free healthcare too. You get these things when your country is run by wacky liberals

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Wednesday, August 16, 2006 11:54 AM

yeah imagine a government that thought it's people were all deserving of medical care no matter what was in their wallets...or that their children deserved as much schooling as they were capable of handling...It's almost like your country values people over money ( you little commies :)

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

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Wednesday, August 16, 2006 12:07 PM

And on that note, 'tis time for me to retire to my nice comfy bed

See you tomorrow

More animations available at http://desktophippie.googlepages.com

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Wednesday, August 16, 2006 12:12 PM

good night sleep tight:)Slan go foill ( sorry my comp won't do the accents, but you get the point:)

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

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Wednesday, August 16, 2006 12:21 PM

I had no idea, but apparently, "The Forsaken" were originally a group of hell-bound heathens chosen by TheRightStuff. I was on that list. What do I have to do to get my Forsaken badge?

________________________________________________________________________
I wish I had a magical wish-granting plank.

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Wednesday, August 16, 2006 12:30 PM

Contact FMF, smear some blood on the alter, grab a beer, get nekkid, dance around the pyre, eat some smores, burn something, post cool pictures, invade a small country with emotes, and send me $199.99 (USD).
Okay, you don't have to send me money.
But I sure wouldn't complain any.

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Wednesday, August 16, 2006 12:33 PM

FMF, can I have something to add to my sig? (Something smallish.)

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I wish I had a magical wish-granting plank.

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Wednesday, August 16, 2006 12:40 PM

FUTUREMRSFILLION

what would you like?

We are The Forsaken - We aim to burn! and we don't need no stinkin levels!

one of the Forsaken TM

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Wednesday, August 16, 2006 12:48 PM

Something the same size as my "Shiny" thing, with some flames and a Chi Rho in it:

________________________________________________________________________
I wish I had a magical wish-granting plank.

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Wednesday, August 16, 2006 1:09 PM

'Night Forsaken.

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Wednesday, August 16, 2006 2:24 PM

FUTUREMRSFILLION

For that we need the Forsakeny smilie god Penguin!

We are The Forsaken - We aim to burn! and we don't need no stinkin levels!

one of the Forsaken TM

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Wednesday, August 16, 2006 2:34 PM

Well, hell. If you see him, let him know. He's from my home state, maybe that'll grease the wheels!

________________________________________________________________________
I wish I had a magical wish-granting plank.

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Wednesday, August 16, 2006 2:36 PM

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
Well, hell. If you see him, let him know. He's from my home state, maybe that'll grease the wheels!

________________________________________________________________________
I wish I had a magical wish-granting plank.

]

Now Causal, you do know that your home state DOES NOT IN FACT EXIST right! It is a mythical land!

We are The Forsaken - We aim to burn! and we don't need no stinkin levels!

one of the Forsaken TM

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Wednesday, August 16, 2006 4:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
Well, hell. If you see him, let him know. He's from my home state, maybe that'll grease the wheels!

________________________________________________________________________
I wish I had a magical wish-granting plank.

Now Causal, you do know that your home state DOES NOT IN FACT EXIST right! It is a mythical land!

Yeah, that's the rumor. But I assure you that it is, in fact, a real place; quite a nice one, as well; you should visit!

________________________________________________________________________
I wish I had a magical wish-granting plank.

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Wednesday, August 16, 2006 5:17 PM