Furries. Yes. No. Indifferent. by AURaptor

Can't see the video, but I think you're talking about people who are into anthropomorphs?

Well, there's different sorts, it runs the gamut from intelligent animals to human girls with a cat ear headband in their hair and cat tails pinned to their pants. I have a few friends who are into this. Generally any furry will tell you that the ability to consent is vital if they feel any sort of... attraction to this kind of stuff. A lot of them are even still attracted to distinctly human sex traits in the anthropomorphs, like one of them is most assuredly a breast guy.

Sometimes it's just people looking, sometimes it's people dressing up for cosplay... Sometimes for, um, yeah. ._. But, whatever, you know? If emphasis is explicitly on consent, who cares if they wear some kind of suit to mess around? It's none of my business. Generally, it seems like a harmless fantasy. Sometimes the fantasy can be so strong they feel no attraction for humans (or even humans in suits), which can interfere with them connecting romantically to people or having families, but that seems either like a choice or maybe even something they can't control, like orientation or something.

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 4:45 AM

America loves a winner!

Sorry,but here's another example

And yes, that's what I'm referring.

You twice used the word " consent ", which I kinda find curious.

Is it a common issue which is brought up ? I can't understand that anyone would be FORCED into participating in 'Furry' activity.

Now, I've been to DragonCon, and enjoyed watching folks gear up in a wide array of costumes, to show their devotion to favorite shows and characters. But this seems to be something quite a part. Anyone can slap on a Jayne hat and a Fighting Elves T-shirt, to tell the world you're a Firefly fan. Heck, I see that as being on par with sports fans wearing jerseys of their favorite teams.

Summer Glau can simply walk into Mordor

Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 4:56 AM

Well, consent and intelligence in anthropomorphic renditions is vital for the furry fandom, because it sets it apart from beastality. They're pretty careful to say they're not into beastality, probably because what they're into could be so easily misunderstood. Maybe there's a reason for them being a little defensive. It's not for me to say, really. I don't care so long as there's no animal abuse.

As for the above, I can't say it has much interest for me. I try to be tolerant though, especially since does seem harmless. It's just being a bit creative with the original medium.

What if you think of it like a crossover? You know that Disney Robin Hood movie with all the foxes? It'd be pretty easy to imagine Mal as a more surly Robin Hood, and Jayne as a more surly Little John, and etc. I bet someone's done that already. This is like, the next step after that, where it's wolves instead of foxes, because archetypically in storytelling wolves are thought to be more rebellious and dangerous than foxes.

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 6:14 AM

STARTROOP

Indifferent, it doesn't blow my skirt up so to speak but that doesn't mean anything. I am pretty garden variety myself ;-) Have fun and don't disturb the traffic ;-)

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 6:37 AM

Absolutely NO. And I'm willing to be good money that "Rappy" is a hard-core furry.

Furries would be negligible, as opposed to loathsome, if they could keep from comparing people with anti-furry sentiments to racists and misogynists. They put their questionable taste out there, and the BAWW whenever anybody wrinkles there nose and frame it as a human rights issue. Sorry, pal, your desire to dress up in a wolf suit and "yiff" is not equivalent to someone's african american ancestry, or sexual orientation. Not to mention that their "fandom" or fetish collects bottom feeders of all sorts, including baby furs, diaper furs, vorophiles.

LET THE FURSECUTION BEGIN!

EDIT: neglected to mention that i am angry at them for retroactively poisoining my childhood by making me suspicious of all representations of anthropomorphic animals, including the Bernstein bears.

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 6:59 AM

Granted on the sort of people it attracts. They're not all bad, but some of them, yikes.

But honestly, should the bad apples be allowed to represent the entire community? Most child molesters actually prefer adults and are straight, yet no one gives straight people crap about it, or calls straight people amoral because of those few that behave badly, or assumes that just because some of them do it, all of them are into it.

I base my moral judgments on whether harm is caused. Most furries, they aren't causing harm. Those that do, well, Firefly says something about a special hell that seems apt here.

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 7:05 AM

I just thought of something horrifying, and hilarious. I will spoilerize it to protect the more fragile sorts such as mincingbeast here.

Select to view spoiler:

In the comic book Better Days, Mal does mention having some sort of bizarre fetish... He was most likely kidding, but who knows? Maybe this lady who draws Wolf Mal is ahead of the game. XD

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 7:12 AM

AVERYFINECOMPANION

I find it very creepy....

I never liked it when our big damn heroes were drawn like that.

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 7:15 AM

It was a little off putting when Two first posted links to Furry-fly here. But I'm adaptable, I've moved on to acceptance through humour at all the strange things us humans get into.

As long as there's consent (which no, diaper (?) and baby fur would not qualify), then I've got no beef. I'm not necessarily going to go intentionally looking for this kinda stuff, but I can control my recoil response.

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 7:24 AM

yak, byte, i hella hate you. thanks. i now totally understand why mal/inara will never, ever work.

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 7:31 AM

I warned you! Although, in retrospect, warning you was actually probably taken as a challenge to the machismo, I have to be more careful about that.

Come on, it's not a little funny? Beauty and the Beast, tail as old as time. Imagine Inara's reaction!

Actually, all of them locked up in that ship with cabin fever, I bet they ALL have kinks. Except Book, because it's explicitly said he doesn't.

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 7:45 AM

dear byte,

if i was told not to throw salt in my eyes, i would probably throw salt in my eyes, just to prove a point. and then i'd have salt in my eyes, and pride.

granted, its funny. i'm scrapping my current fic and writing one where mal and inara are about to conusmmate their tragic relationship, and mal stops and puts on his tigger costume and explains that it is the only way he can get arosued. it will be rad, because it will be super angsty and absurd at the same time, and total deflate the conventions of the ship. also, jayne will be a furry too, with space clap, and he wants simon to examine him and his space clap, who is also a furry.

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 7:52 AM

I dunno, Mal and Inara have always been a little absurd in their own way. This, though, I'm dying thinking about it.

Hey, you know with all the companion-y stuff, she's probably got to cater to some unusual interests. Who knows what she's into?

I bet Atherton Wing was a furry! In fact, I bet he has some kind of bird suit!

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 7:59 AM

What? Mal and Inara are not absurd, but tragic. Unless you think that being madly in love with someone you can't stand, and do not accept, is absurd. Mal in his Tigger suit declaring his undying love to Inara while she rolls her eyes, well, that is super absurd.

I betcha Atheron Wing dresses up like Big Bird.

Anyway, one of us has to write the Mal/Inara furry-ship now, and it should probably be you, because you obviously have a stronger stomach than I, and are more open to nuance. If I wrote it, Mal would confess his furrydom, fearing rejection, and then Inara would try to accept it and point out that she's seen some weird kinks, which would make Mal freak out and withdraw from her, and call her a slut.

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:37 AM

Quote:
I betcha Atheron Wing dresses up like Big Bird.

We have exposed his secrets. He will challenge us to a duel now.

I dunno, being that I don't see it as weird as you do, I imagine Atherton Wing dressing up as something pretentious. Like maybe a crane, what with his Sihonese sensibilities. Something that Inara would think is elegant and attractive, so she'd feel okay going to see him multiple times. Their interplay would involve him comparing her to Leda, and himself to Zeus.

I'm imagining a curious Inara, experimenting in her youth and going to Sihonese masquerades...

And Mal, who as ever finds his own tastes shameful.

While there's no way I'd make an in-universe conversation so all the characters are anthropomorphs, I'd try to be respectful to the furry fandom. They get a lot of crap, I think, I wouldn't want to pile on. Besides, that lady, who drew those Mal Wolf pics? She's a browncoat. I'm not going to troll a fellow browncoat.

So, anyway. Back to the topic at hand?

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 11:03 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Well, consent and intelligence in anthropomorphic renditions is vital for the furry fandom, because it sets it apart from beastality. They're pretty careful to say they're not into beastality, probably because what they're into could be so easily misunderstood. Maybe there's a reason for them being a little defensive. It's not for me to say, really. I don't care so long as there's no animal abuse.

See, animal "abuse" wasn't even remotely on my radar. And now that opens up a whole new level of uncomfortableness for me.

I really am on the far outside of this phenomenon, and that's where I'll stay. Mimes, clowns and furries..... all creep the hell out of me, to be honest. Same goes w/ the BK 'King'... no thank you!

But team mascots, I got no problem with...go figure.

Quote:

As for the above, I can't say it has much interest for me. I try to be tolerant though, especially since does seem harmless. It's just being a bit creative with the original medium.

What if you think of it like a crossover? You know that Disney Robin Hood movie with all the foxes? It'd be pretty easy to imagine Mal as a more surly Robin Hood, and Jayne as a more surly Little John, and etc. I bet someone's done that already. This is like, the next step after that, where it's wolves instead of foxes, because archetypically in storytelling wolves are thought to be more rebellious and dangerous than foxes.

I guess I just see the animals portraying characters like Robin Hood as being cartoon animals. Like Mickey Mouse ( wearing pants ) or Pluto,a dog, having another dog for a pet. They're cartoons, it doesn't have to makes sense.

I think I just paraphrased Homer Simpson on that last part.

Summer Glau can simply walk into Mordor

Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 11:12 AM

Sure, just cartoons.

I doubt if a cartoon were ever produced of Firefly it'd be the characters anthropomorphized, but you never know. Robin Hood, he was possibly a real person sometime in the medieval times, that a legend grew up around. And when Disney made their movie, they chose to represent Robin Hood not as a person (and it's not like Disney can't do it, look at Snow White and etc.), but as a fox. Likely because of the folk tales about Reynard the Fox... Still. Why'd they do that?

Only thing I can come up with, is for the fun of it. And so look at Furry-fly here. Furries do have a kind of overly sexualized stigma in internet circles, which isn't to say it's not earned, or that this Furry-fly isn't meant to appeal to that on some level (Mal licking his gun? Um, okay, sure). But the way I see it, the mostly likely reason the artist did it was to have fun with it. That's why us browncoats are here, isn't it? Maybe the furry doesn't appeal to you, and that's fine (it doesn't actually appeal that much to me, either), but I don't see anything wrong with what's been done.

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 11:15 AM

CYBERSNARK

I don't really care one way or another, though I've grown up surrounded by science fiction, and currently write sci-fi for a(n attempted) living. Interspecies relationships aren't all that unusual to me, so long as both parties are actually sapient beings.

My definition of "normal" is probably a little off.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 11:21 AM

Byte, I appreciate how thoughtful and restrained you are, but please note that 1) furries have earned their reputation for sexualizing everything and putting fur on it. If it were just cartoon characters, like Donald Duck, nobody would bat an eye. Also, 2) they are evil. I recognize that I am falling into the trap of blaming the victims for their "fursecution", but i do not care.

Moreover, I'm convinced that Rappy is a furry. There is a proven correllation between furrydom, conservative politics, christianity, and repression. No joke!

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 12:18 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by mincingbeast:
Byte, I appreciate how thoughtful and restrained you are, but please note that 1) furries have earned their reputation for sexualizing everything and putting fur on it. If it were just cartoon characters, like Donald Duck, nobody would bat an eye. Also, 2) they are evil. I recognize that I am falling into the trap of blaming the victims for their "fursecution", but i do not care.

Moreover, I'm convinced that Rappy is a furry. There is a proven correllation between furrydom, conservative politics, christianity, and repression. No joke!

Where's that been " proven " ? Or are ya just havin' a bit o' fun ?

'Cause I'm an atheist, and think furries are, as I said, somewhat on the creepifying side. But if that's something you're into, by all means... have at it.

Sorry 'bout your theory.

Summer Glau can simply walk into Mordor

Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 12:18 PM

I don't think they're evil, but yeah, I even said that the furry fandom has earned their reputation. But what makes it different from any other fetish that has some interest in altering their appearance, to the point of finding non-human attributes/accessories attractive?

Humans aren't born with elongated canines, but the vampire culture will get crowns, sometimes they even actually bite each other and drink blood. Some people, yeah, they're going to find that strange and unattractive, even recoil from it. The sanguinarians, that's risky behaviour, you're even hurting people, albeit with their consent. So are they wrong? Are they evil? And remember, this is coming from someone who hates fictional vampires for being so emo.

So, except for the "barrel-scrapers" as you called them, which can be found in a number of fetish and non-fetish cultures... Why the hate for furries?

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 12:26 PM

rappy, i am amending my theory slighty. i now maintain that you are a closet furry. ;) also, the words and deeds of such legendary furries as CrusaderCat support my theory.

byte, i'm being irrational. i guess that as a mal/inara fic'er, closeted geek, and comic book enthusiast (not to mention my fascination with...rpgs), I need to know that there is someone lower on the totem pole than me. Furries are despicable, and a safe target for other fanbois such as myself. Thats probably it, if I'm honest.

Plus, they are such tempting targets.

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 12:34 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
rappy, i am amending my theory slighty. i now maintain that you are a closet furry. ;) also, the words and deeds of such legendary furries as CrusaderCat support my theory.

So, because I start a thread on Furries, or because I plainly state that they creep me out, tells YOU that I'm a closet furry ?

Wow.

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 12:37 PM

yes. i firmly maintain that you are a closet furry.

its okay, you're amongst friends.

tell me about your fursona. are you some sort of raptor? ;)

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 12:37 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Meh, if it makes em happy.. *shrug*

I know a few, but catgirls don't really register on the furrydom "realm" though, save in pretty rare instances, mostly because of two reasons...

A: different fandom, completely.
B: most catgirls ain't old enough to be even interested in that kinda thing, hell, most of em are still at the boys-r-icky stage of life.

That of course requires the somewhat embarrassing admission that I am the unofficial catgirl "princess" around here as a direct result of rather brutally jacking up a vendor that made an offensive and improper threat/proposition to two of em within my hearing - BAD idea, that, since whenever I get stuck watchin the brats at a convention there's usually a few of those in the horde, including Kiras catboy little brother, and I happened to watching those two when he did it.

The "princess" thing comes from both Gus and my Ex complaining about how prissy and fincky I can be about stuff, loudly and within the hearing of said bratlings....
*eyeroll*

So yeah, you upset/offend/frighten the local pack of em and they threaten to sic "the princess" on you, that'd be me - it's stupid, but it amuses them, so I'll play along.

Anyhow, different fandom, wrong age group, as a rule.

-F

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 12:37 PM

FEARTHEBUNNYMAN

In lieu of contributing to the discussion, I'll just leave this here

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 12:37 PM

Really? RPGs? You and I've got some stuff to talk about some other time. :)

EDIT: Oops! Someone got the hierarchy before me.

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 12:41 PM

lol, exactly, the hierarchy of fandom is spot on.

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 12:46 PM

I've always found the bottom rung to be curiously specific.

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 12:50 PM

FEARTHEBUNNYMAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Really? RPGs? You and I've got some stuff to talk about some other time. :)

EDIT: Oops! Someone got the hierarchy before me.

great minds think alike. ;)

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 12:54 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Same goes w/ the BK 'King'... no thank you!

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 2:00 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by mincingbeast:
yes. i firmly maintain that you are a closet furry.

its okay, you're amongst friends.

tell me about your fursona. are you some sort of raptor? ;)

Raptors have feathers, or scaly skin.

No fur.

Summer Glau can simply walk into Mordor

Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 2:02 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by mincingbeast:
lol, exactly, the hierarchy of fandom is spot on.

Fits my opinion, which puts me well above, better than any 'Furry'.

Summer Glau can simply walk into Mordor

Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 2:33 PM

That actually doesn't matter. There are people out there who like reptile anthropomorphs, or more commonly, dragon anthropomorphs. They're still called furries, though they're a subset that I *THINK* calls themselves scalies. But I'm not sure on that, I get things mixed up.

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 2:40 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
That actually doesn't matter. There are people out there who like reptile anthropomorphs, or more commonly, dragon anthropomorphs. They're still called furries, though they're a subset that I *THINK* calls themselves scalies. But I'm not sure on that, I get things mixed up.

Curses! I'm outed !!

Summer Glau can simply walk into Mordor

Bones: "Don't 'rawr' her!"
Booth: "What? she'rawred' me first."

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 3:32 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

I know of an example of a Firefly / Reptile furry combo.
Iguana boyfriend and Anya Rose Ewing in her Captain Malcolm Reynolds/Wolf fur-suit
I can't say that I approve of such scandalous & wanton behavior.
http://www.furaffinity.net/full/1730379/

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 3:33 PM

Sorry for the length, but I love that comic, and there was no other possible response. Anytime someone talks about anthropomorphic raptors, I always think of Dr. Dinosaur now.

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 3:58 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Truly a brilliant comic. I got my scientific two cents to add.

In 1974, Frank J. Tipler designed (but did not build) a time machine. Tipler's PhD dissertation in physics, "Causality Violation in General Relativity," was about that machine. You can read more at

http://books.google.de/books?id=39KQY1FnSfkC&q=Frank+Tipler+#v=snippet
&q=Frank%20Tipler%201974&f=false

The book that explores the confused notions about time machines in Science Fiction is "Time machines: time travel in physics, metaphysics, and science fiction, Second Edition" by Paul J. Nahin. I learned two things: Time travel is possible. And the other thing is that time travel is impossible the way it is done in comics, TV, movies, novels, and short stories.

If you build Tipler's time machine, you don't have to worry about your H.G. Wells time machine reappearing in the vacuum of space somewhere near Pluto because you have much bigger problems. You'll need to find a star that no one is using. Then you'll need to build a star ship to travel there. Then you need to squeeze the star into a cylinder. Then rotate that cylinder to half the speed of light because you're warping spacetime. Are you seeing the difficulties here?

The good part is that Tipler's machine would actually work, unless Einstein completely screwed-up general relativity theory and how likely is that?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipler_cylinder

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 4:21 PM

Honestly, it's reasonably likely Einstein did get some things wrong, though I have my doubts string theory has the answers. There might be some fundamental issues with quantum theory, as well.

However, I can believe that time travel would take some serious tricks on physics and the fabric of space time.

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 5:12 PM

just when i was starting to feel a little bit tolerant, and could entertain the notion that furries are just folks with tastes wildly divergent from my own, you had to go and ruin it, two. curses. furries are evil! where are my pitchfork and torch, for purposes of vicious fursecution?

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 5:25 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Right here.

$29.99 USD for the fork, $3.99 for the torch, and I'll even throw in a cheap disposable lighter.

-Frem

PS. Nobody tell him I sold the Furries crossbows first.

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 6:10 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by mincingbeast:
just when i was starting to feel a little bit tolerant, and could entertain the notion that furries are just folks with tastes wildly divergent from my own, you had to go and ruin it, two. curses. furries are evil! where are my pitchfork and torch, for purposes of vicious fursecution?

I think you would feel better about furries if you knew that Einstein, with that hair, was a very early furry - long before the term was invented. The man was truly a pathfinder. And Bytemite is right, Einstein didn't win every scientific controversy, particularly the Bohr-Einstein Debates, With Puppets. Einstein as a Bichon puppy puppet: http://www.akc.org/breeds/bichon_frise/

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Tuesday, March 30, 2010 11:53 PM

America loves a winner!

How anyone could find Bichon or black lab puppets 'sexy', is beyond me.

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Wednesday, March 31, 2010 5:59 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by AURAPTOR:
How anyone could find Bichon or black lab puppets 'sexy', is beyond me.

Women swooned for the teenage Einstein - I tell you they were madly in love with his furriness - his Bichon puppy dog good looks. Seventeen year old Einstein knocked up his 21 year old girlfriend. Genius! Much later they married, but before that his illegitimate daughter was adopted, vanishing from history. The book to read is "Einstein In Love" http://books.google.com/books?id=uKR7X7Ve6zMC&printsec=frontcover&dq=e
instein+in+love+a+scientific+romance

"If everybody lived a life like mine there would be no need for novels... Or Firefly." - A. Einstein to his sister, Maja, 1899

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Wednesday, March 31, 2010 6:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURAPTOR:
How anyone could find Bichon or black lab puppets 'sexy', is beyond me.

I thought you could offer us some insight into this, you being a furry and all. But I suppose feathers and claws are more your thing, right? Still waiting for a detailed description of your fursona, your furvert.

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Wednesday, March 31, 2010 6:41 AM

Someone who's into reptile-furry may not be into regular mammal-furry. Some furries are quite discriminating about the type of furry that they're into. Not that you could tell by Iguana-don and Wolf Mal there. ^_^'

Whether or not AURaptor is a furry, it's likely he honestly doesn't understand the attraction to canine-furry or canine-furry puppets.

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Wednesday, March 31, 2010 6:56 AM

STARTROOP

That's funny! I fit into way too many of the boxes.

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Wednesday, March 31, 2010 7:10 AM

Byte, it has already been established that Rappy is, infact, a furry. He freely admitted to as much. Granted, he may try to edit or disavow his earlier admission, or claim that he was joking. But since when has Rappy ever joked, or been funny? ;)

It seems, though, that there are divisions in the furry community. Scaly furries discriminate against mammalian furries, and vice versa? Perhaps we could exploit these tensions and bring about the end of the fandom through furry civil war.

Also...were the teenage mutant ninja turtles furries?

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Wednesday, March 31, 2010 7:54 AM