Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria by kpo

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

There are many areas that are beseiged by al Nusra, ISIL, and the various other jihadist groups and (sometimes) their FSA allies. To pretend that the Syrian government alone is responsible for all of the "hard to reach" areas is sheer nonsense. Scrubbing that info out of the UN reports protects ISIL and its backers as well.

I listened to an NPR report on that. They conflated ALL sieges under the Assad banner. Its very obvious that they're engaged in biased reporting.

An ACTUAL REPORT would talk about the numbers of people living in besieged ("hard to reach") areas and who was responsible, as well as the form of siege. For example, were residents prevented from escaping by sharpshooters embedded in the population? Were aid packages commandeered by specific groups? Or was this denial of permits to deliver aid?

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Thursday, January 28, 2016 1:47 PM

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
There are many areas that are beseiged by al Nusra, ISIL, and the various other jihadist groups and (sometimes) their FSA allies.

From the telegraph link above:

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The UN's humanitarian plans for Syria, leaked last week, also suggested that that the UN had censored itself by removing the words "siege" and "besieged" between the original draft and the final publication.

The plan is also careful to stress that areas are besieged not just by the regime, but also the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant and non-Isil rebels. Yet the vast majority - 49 of the 52 at risk - are held by non-Isil rebels and surrounded by the regime.

49 of the 52 starved areas are rebel-controlled, starved by the regime, says the UN. There are a few Shia villages that are also being besieged by the rebels, which is not in any way excusable, but this appears to be retaliation for what is a mass starvation tactic by the Assad regime and its allies.

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I listened to an NPR report on that. They conflated ALL sieges under the Assad banner. Its very obvious that they're engaged in biased reporting.

According to the UN Assad is responsible for the vast majority. Even so most Western reporting I've seen has mentioned the few non Assad-implemented sieges as well.

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An ACTUAL REPORT would talk about the numbers of people living in besieged ("hard to reach") areas and who was responsible, as well as the form of siege. For example, were residents prevented from escaping by sharpshooters embedded in the population?

The UN answered all of this, in its reporting on Madaya:

The Government of Syria and allied forces have surrounded the area of Madaya and Bqine since July 2015. Since September 2015, these forces have imposed increasingly strict restrictions on humanitarian access, commercial traffic on freedom of movement for the civilians inside the enclave, under the control of several non-state armed groups since late 2012. Despite the existence of a local agreement since January 2015, the access restrictions imposed on Madaya have translated into a severe deterioration of the living conditions for the estimated 42,000 people trapped in Madaya and Bqine
http://www.unocha.org/aggregator/sources/85

So the UN blames Assad and his allies. Russian media has a different spin I'll bet, but I think I know which one is lying.

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Were aid packages commandeered by specific groups? Or was this denial of permits to deliver aid?

The UN makes it clear that it is Assad's "strict restrictions" (i.e. siege) that has caused the mass starvation. That doesn't preclude the rebel fighters commandeering food for themselves of course.

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Thursday, January 28, 2016 1:55 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

But there are MANY MORE AREAS that are besieged. Areas besieged by jihadists and the so-called rebels. Areas that you're not told about. Areas that you don't think to think about.

Besieging a town is a terrible thing. Focusing on ONE town does a disservice to the others.

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The real story concerning the town of Madaya located on the Lebanese border is as follows. Madaya was the crossing point for many of these terrorists from Lebanon to Syria, and which, from 2011, had been under terrorist control. A ceasefire had been implemented to help residents in Kafraya and Faouah, two Syrian villages in the countryside of Idlib which were under the terrorists siege for eight months.

When the Syrian Army achieved success in Zabadani, the U.N. helped to have that ceasefire in Zabadni in exchange for helping Humanitarian aid to reach residents in those two villages, in which many of its kids lost their lives because of hunger, and illness, as well as the car bombs ...

When the terrorists in Madya found out about that ceasefire, their [terrorist] reaction was to put Madaya under siege as they didn’t want that ceasefire to be achieved. So Madaya became their hostage. They stole the people’s food and medicine and then sold it back to them at impossible-to-pay prices.

In Madaya, there are three factions of terrorists: 50% belonging to Al Nusra (affiliated with Al Qaeda), 30% to Ahrar Al Sham, and 10% to the Free Syrian Army; the very same ‘Free Syrian Army’ that began its operations by bombing Syria and executing officials and most of whose members became what is today referred to as ISIS.

Another point here that needs to be discussed is how the Western media used the Madaya crisis–meaning starvation of our residents here–as a platform for demonizing the Syrian government. In the same way they used media outlets to demonize the former Soviet Union by establishing Radio Free Europe, we now see the same media platforms aligning against Syria such as CNN, Aljazeera English, and many others who deliberately use false information and pictures in controlling the narrative. Where was the Western media when other towns were being besieged such as Deir Al Zour, Nobbul, and Zahra?

http://www.activistpost.com/2016/01/syria-under-siege-and-the-real-sto
ry-of-madaya.html

I don't think we're getting the full story here. Supposedly there are a lot of towns in the northwest that are being besieged by so-called rebels. I'll see if I can find that article again.

In addition, you could say that the entire nation of Syria is besieged, by the west, as it is under indiscriminate sanctions.

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Thursday, January 28, 2016 2:25 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

So, looking into this further, the BBC had what seems like a comprehensive report

I'm just going to pick out a few pieces here and there

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The [UN] organisation says only 10% of all requests for its convoys to hard-to-reach and besieged areas in Syria have been granted [ BY WHOM?] in the past year.

'Dire situation' in besieged villages
Which parts of Syria are affected?

According to the UN, those under siege include about 200,000 people in government-controlled areas of the eastern city of Deir al-Zour, which are besieged by Islamic State (IS) militants.

In the eastern Ghouta, a rebel stronghold outside Damascus, about 176,500 people are besieged by Syrian government forces in various locations.

In the suburb of Darayya and mountain town of Zabadani in Damascus Countryside province, about 4,000 and 500 people respectively remain besieged by government forces, the UN says.

Madaya, just to the south of Zabadani, has been under siege since July. The UN says about 42,000 people are trapped there, some of whom fled Zabadani.

In Foua and Kefraya, in Idlib province, some 12,500 people are estimated to be trapped by rebel groups and the al-Qaeda-affiliated al-Nusra Front.

...

The commission says that a father drowned in March 2015 when attempting to swim across the River Euphrates from a besieged area of Deir al-Zour to find food for his children.

Snipers in the city have targeted and killed civilians seeking to escape, including children, it says, and in April 2015 a 13-year-old girl died of hunger there.

A resident of Madaya, Abdel Wahab Ahmed, told the BBC on Thursday that two people had died of starvation in the town on one day in January alone.

I still need to find that info about the northwest.

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Thursday, January 28, 2016 2:34 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

And finally ... for now ..

ADEN, Yemen — While the media was flooded with images of the starving children of Syria, the thousands of children suffering from Saudi Arabia’s U.S.-backed onslaught on Yemen made far fewer headlines.

The mainstream media was eager to report on the struggle for survival in Madaya. The mountain town near Syria’s southwestern border was once known as a popular resort destination in the Middle East, but its population is now reportedly being starved under a siege by the Syrian army.

However, the actual situation is far more complex. The U.S.-supported, so-called “moderate” rebels including the Nusra Front, the Syrian branch of al-Qaida, had first laid siege to the cities of Kefraya and Fua, leading to a retaliatory siege on Madaya by the Assad government. Those same rebel groups were also, in turn, responsible for allowing the starvation in Madaya to continue by occupying the city and keeping humanitarian aid out of reach of the populace as a strategic tactic. Additionally, many images used in media reports on Madaya turned out to be fake or misleading.

Meanwhile, far fewer journalists are covering the large-scale starvation and displacement taking place in Yemen, a situation caused by a bombing campaign and blockade led by Saudi Arabia and its allies and backed by U.S. military aid. The Nusra Front, one of the groups responsible for skyrocketing food prices in Madaya, also has the backing of the Saudi government, like many of the rebel forces in the region.

Saudi Arabia is currently engaged in a proxy war with Iran, who Riyadh blames, inaccurately, for the rise to power of the Houthis in Yemen and setbacks to the kingdom’s agenda in Syria, leading to a bombing campaign and embargo on crucial resources that began in April.

UNICEF reported in October that 537,000 Yemeni children were at risk of severe malnutrition nationwide, while Alexi O’Brien, reporting for Al-Jazeera in September, noted that the United Nations warned that 96,000 children were “starving and close to death” in the port city of al-Hodeidah, and an additional 8,000 children faced starvation in Aden in 2016.

The situation was so dire nationwide that, in June, the U.N. reported “that at least six million people in Yemen are in urgent need of emergency food and life-saving assistance, a new United Nations (UN) investigation has found … 10 out of Yemen’s 22 governorates are facing an ‘emergency level’ food security situation amid the ongoing conflict, including major areas like Aden, Taiz, Saa’da and Al Baida.” In July, Oxfam reported that the number of starving people in Yemen had topped 6 million — nearly half the country’s population of 13 million. Aid workers are struggling to reach the needy, with the World Food Programme reporting that it had served 3.5 million Yemenis by August.

While the suffering of the residents of Madaya is heart-wrenching, some critics have questioned the motives behind the media’s focus on this single town rather than suffering in Yemen or even elsewhere in Syria. Vladimir Safronkov, Russia’s deputy ambassador to the U.N. Security Council, lamented recently that the timing of the reports seemed calculated to undermine the budding peace process in Syria, according to a report from RT. “It looks like that, under the pretext of the deterioration of the situation in besieged cities, attempts are being made to undermine the launch of the inter-Syrian dialogue scheduled for January 25,” he told an emergency meeting of the Security Council on Saturday.

Safronkov said the West practices a “double standard” by raising the alarm about Madaya while ignoring cities besieged by anti-Assad forces:

“Much is being said about Madaya, but not a word about the villages of Nubul and Az-Zahra in the province of Aleppo. And we are talking about the fate of tens of thousands of people.”

On Monday, Ben Norton, politics staff writer for Salon, cited the siege of Yemen, as well as Israel’s decade-long blockade of Gaza, when he questioned why some atrocities are condemned and others are “barely even acknowledged.” He wrote:

“All sieges are of course tragic, because they harm civilians. There should be outrage at the siege on Madaya, but there should be proportionate outrage. All of the other ongoing sieges — and the much larger blockades — that happened to be supported by the West should not conveniently be ignored.

Americans, in particular, should be concerned about the millions upon millions of people being starved in policies backed by their ostensibly democratic government, right at this very moment.”

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Thursday, January 28, 2016 7:12 PM

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

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Areas besieged by jihadists and the so-called rebels. Areas that you're not told about. Areas that you don't think to think about.

Areas that you can't come up with any evidence for, or even name - they're so mysterious.

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In Foua and Kefraya, in Idlib province, some 12,500 people are estimated to be trapped by rebel groups

The two Shia villages I've already mentioned.

Not sure what else in that BBC article you wanted to highlight, as nothing in it really helped your case.

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Besieging a town is a terrible thing. Focusing on ONE town does a disservice to the others.

I'm focussing on the 52 towns and the party that is responsible for besieging 49 of them (the Assad regime).

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I don't think we're getting the full story here. Supposedly there are a lot of towns in the northwest...

"Supposedly". Rumours, and rumours of rumours. From blogs, no doubt.

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In addition, you could say that the entire nation of Syria is besieged, by the west, as it is under indiscriminate sanctions.

A desperate and weak attempt to deflect away from Assad and Putin's guilt.

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And finally ... for now ..

ADEN, Yemen

A desperate and off-topic attempt to deflect away from Assad and Putin's guilt.

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Friday, January 29, 2016 2:13 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

First of all, KPO, it's very clear from the title of your thread that you're only interested in RUSSIA'S and SYRIA's war crimes. For some reason, you're not interested in anyone else's war crimes; why is that?

Anyway, I read your links carefully, and what I found was a pronounced emphasis on Assad and Madaya - yanno, your favored focus - and not much information about anything or anyone else. One article (FP) was full of "some say" and "some feel". The other (Telegraph) really minimized anyone else's contributions to the problem.

But in looking at the BBC article and just roughly totaling up their list, the other actors (yanno, the ones supported by Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and the USA) account for about half of the population under siege. Furthermore, the Syrian government has been pressured into allowing aid into Madaya, but ISIL/ Nusra/ FSA still haven't allowed any food into their areas of responsibility. When are you going to start agitating about that? Never?

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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Saturday, January 30, 2016 9:28 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Meanwhile: "Rebels" war crimes in Syria. I put "rebels" in quotes because many of them are foreign actors from Iraq, Libya, Morocco, as well as CIA-funded actors.

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Hundreds of residents in the pro-regime a-Zahraa neighborhood in Homs city pitched tents and burned tires for the second day on Thursday of a sit-in demonstration. Protestors demanded the resignation of the provincial governor and other regime and security officials, reported pro-regime and pro-opposition media on Thursday.

The demonstrations follow a car bomb and a suicide attack at a regime checkpoint in the neighborhood that killed 24 people and injured more than 100 others on Tuesday reported the regime affiliated Organization of Syrian Arab Radio and TV (ORTAS) on Wednesday. The media outfit reported that “terrorists” with the Islamic State (IS) were behind the bombings.[Why did the authors put quotes around the word "terrorists"? It indicates a certain amount of disbelief or disagreement about the use of the word, but if ISIL is setting off car bombs, it seems to me they deserve the use of the unquoted word. So what does that say about the bias of the article?- SIGNY]

IS did in fact claim responsibility for the attack via its media affiliate Amaq on Tuesday.

The latest Islamic State attacks even on the periphery of the locked-down district of a-Zahraa has rattled residents. The twin bombings this week are the latest in a string of unclaimed car bombings that have rocked pro-regime neighborhoods in Homs over the past two years. In one infamous October 2014 incident, two explosions directed at a school killed more than 40 children.

http://syriadirect.org/news/pro-regime-reporter-in-homs-city-%E2%80%98
no-confidence%E2%80%99-in-security/

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Monday, February 1, 2016 10:53 AM

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Medecine Sans Frontieres from 2 days ago: 16 more die of starvation in Syrian government-starved Madaya:

http://news.yahoo.com/16-more-starve-death-syrias-besieged-madaya-msf-
083223561.html

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MSF said the additional deaths in Madaya brought to 46 the number of people reported to have died of starvation in the town since December.

It said real toll could be worse.

"The real number is almost certainly higher, as MSF is aware of reports of people dying of starvation in their homes."

This is happening to innocent men, women and children. In the 21st century.

Signy, if you are going to deflect away from this by accusing the rebels of atrocities equally as bad, then PROVIDE EVIDENCE. Not just rumour.

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Tuesday, February 2, 2016 1:07 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Signy, if you are going to deflect away from this by accusing the rebels of atrocities equally as bad, then PROVIDE EVIDENCE. Not just rumour.

I provided the BBC article, from which I tallied the approximate number under siege by both sides.

What - BBC not good enough for you now?

Apparently it doesn't matter what the BBC says, because you're only interested in what RUSSIA does, and what ASSAD does, and you will scour every report and every paragraph and every tweet to find what you're looking for. That's typical of that biblical statement about seeing the speck in your brother's eye but not the log in your own. Well of course: that log is occluding your vision. And you even pretend to be unbiased, and that you're just interested in "the truth". What a fucking hoot!

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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Wednesday, February 3, 2016 6:54 PM

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

In case anyone is still wondering where all the Syrian refugees are coming from, and who is creating them, have a look at what Assad did to an opposition-held city:

A good article on the background of the city in question, "Homs - capital of the Syrian revolution" - http://www.vox.com/2016/2/3/10906078/drone-syria-homs

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Wednesday, February 3, 2016 9:02 PM

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
I provided the BBC article, from which I tallied the approximate number under siege by both sides.

What - BBC not good enough for you now?

This is some steaming bullshit, even by your standards Sig. From the BBC article:

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...about 200,000 people in government-controlled areas of the eastern city of Deir al-Zour, which are besieged by Islamic State (IS) militants.

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In the eastern Ghouta, a rebel stronghold outside Damascus, about 176,500 people are besieged by Syrian government forces.

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In the suburb of Darayya and mountain town of Zabadani in Damascus Countryside province, about 4,000 and 500 people respectively remain besieged by government forces, the UN says.

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Madaya... has been under siege since July. The UN says about 42,000 people are trapped there (KPO: By government forces, as we all know)

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In Foua and Kefraya, in Idlib province, some 12,500 people are estimated to be trapped by rebel groups

So lets tally up the numbers of people being starved by all sides:

~223,000 civilians being besieged by Government forces
~200,000 civilians being besieged by ISIS
~12,500 civilians being besieged by rebel forces.

So just looking at the few cases given in the BBC article, we can say that rebel forces are responsible for approximately 3% of starved civilians. This matches what the UN says. That the rebels are doing any starving at all is reprehensible, and is a war crime. But sadly we already know that there are radical elements amongst the rebels - the Al Qaeda linked Al Nusra. However. The numbers of civilians being starved by the Syrian government, backed by Russia, FAR exceeds the number being besieged by rebel forces, and even exceeds the number being besieged by the evil ISIS. AND - People are DYING in the Syrian government-starved towns. Are people dying in the rebel-besieged towns? Any evidence?

So what was that you were saying about tallying up the numbers?

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What - BBC not good enough for you now?

The BBC is fine by me. Just your bullshit accounting I take issue with, as usual.

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Thursday, February 4, 2016 9:14 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Yep, there you go: Ignoring the entire body of evidence to look for the speck that you want to find, just like I said you would.

So, what you WILL find out about sieges by "rebel" forces (whom you warmly support, despite their alliance of convenience with al Nusra/ al Qaida, and their primarily sharia-Sunni orientation) you'll find backhanded. Under the title

Syria conflict: Government 'cuts Aleppo rebel supply route'
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-35485563

you will find the following

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Syrian government forces are reported to have broken a siege of two towns north-west of Aleppo, severing a key rebel supply route into the city... The two mainly Shia towns, which have a population of about 40,000, have been besieged by hardline Sunni Islamist and jihadist rebels since early 2013.

The article says that the towns were seiged by "hardline Suuni Islamist and jihadist rebels" (one might be tempted to think Al Qaida or even ISIL) but the MAP shows that area under the control of your "rebels".

That has been a salient feature since I started following this, not just a recent development.

And BTW, these are two of the towns in NW Syria that I had alluded to earlier as being under siege by either "rebels" or terrorists. I believe there are more, but I haven't had time to find that article again.

So 40,000 people under siege by rebels, who have recently been freed. 40,000 that didn't appear in your tally, but acknowledged after-the-fact by the BBC. OF course, the BBC and western media don't focus on the sieges, but write endlessly about civilians killed and infrastructure destroyed. Yanno, if those towns hadn't been used as human shields by the rebels then this wouldn't have happened, so let's place blame where it's due. There's enough to go around.

Since the coalition of the SAA (Syrian Arab Army, which BTW is 70% Sunni), Hezbollah, Russia, and the Kurds are making significant military advances in NW Syria (Latakia into Idlib) you may read about other sieged towns after-the-fact. But of course, since the reporting is egregiously biased, you'll have to look at it with fresh eyes to see what information you can pull out of it. That is what is called being objective.

--------

So, let's have a quick recap of what happened in Syria. A small group of well-meaning people wanted democratic reforms in Syria. Another (native) anti-government Sunni-sharia group jumped on the bandwagon to topple Assad and institute pro-Sunni sharia law. Since the USA and Saudi Arabia were itching to depose Assad at any cost ("Assad must go"), and direct military bombardment was thwarted by Russia (2013) they turned instead to using this "moderate rebel" group as cover, and funded and armed jihadists and mercs endlessly, making Syria a Mecca (so to speak) for foreign jihadists from Chechnya to Brussels to Morocco to Sudan, instituting a proxy war and creating chaos and strife. Russia, Iran, and Hezbollah intervened and prevented the overthrow of the Syrian government by foreign-funded radical jihadists and native Sunni jihadists. The pro-democracy group ... irrelevant compared to the forces unleashed by the USA and Saudi Arabia.

So, here we are: Syria enmeshed in a proxy war. The west wringing its hands about the situation in Syria, which they themselves created.

FWIW, I've also been following the UN peace process. The anti-Assad forces met in Riyadh (Saudi Arabia) to select their delegates. Despite the fact that hardline, foreign jihadists were not supposed to be included in the group, they managed to get in anyway. That's what you get when the KSA sponsors you!

The anti-Assad delegates refuse to include the Kurds in their delegation. Their argument is that the Kurds are more pro- than anti-Syrian government, so currently the Kurds- who control much of the Syrian-Turkish border and who have been an effective anti-jihadist fighting force - are unrepresented.

The UN talks have been suspended. Since the four-plus-one coalition has made significant advances on the ground (Their opinion is that the current area of fighting in NW Syria is the most difficult, due to terrain, and that once that territory is taken advances will be swift) I would imagine that they have no interest in negotiating what they will take militarily. The longer the talks are suspended, the greater the "facts on the ground" in their favor.

So you recall when someone (possibly you) came up with that faux-concerned argument that battle-hardened foreign jihadists would leave Syria and return "home"? My comment at the time was

IN BODY BAGS.

Thankfully, that looks to be the case.

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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Thursday, February 4, 2016 7:49 PM

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
So 40,000 people under siege by rebels, who have recently been freed. 40,000 that didn't appear in your tally, but acknowledged after-the-fact by the BBC.

If the UN made no mention of these towns in its recent report on starving people then maybe it's because this was a siege in the ordinary, military meaning of the word, and not a starvation siege. From what I read the rebels were letting intermittent aid into the towns, and the towns have retained Syrian government supply lines as well. So siege, yes. Starvation of civilians, no. If I'm wrong, then where are the starving civilians?

Quote:
And BTW, these are two of the towns in NW Syria that I had alluded to earlier as being under siege by either "rebels" or terrorists.

And so where are the starving civilians? These are government-held towns - surely if the rebels were starving them it would be in their interest to broadcast that fact to the world?

Quote:
Yep, there you go: Ignoring the entire body of evidence

Ignoring what? I keep asking you for evidence of rebel starvation sieges, outside of the two Shia villages that I've already mentioned, and you keep not providing any...

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Thursday, February 4, 2016 8:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by G:
Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
This is some steaming bullshit, even by your standards Sig.

She builds her arguments from bricks made of shit....

Has a ring to it - carry on...

I think all this is great. Many here have been flat out stating that SIG and 1kiki were Russian propagandists. In the last six months they have posted enough bullshit denying any culpability on Putin's part, concerning anything posted by legitimate news sources. The cat's out of the bag and there's no way to put it back.

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Thursday, February 4, 2016 11:28 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
I think all this is great. Many here have been flat out stating that SIG and 1kiki were Russian propagandists.

I guess that makes you a pro-ISIL terrorist-lover, then. YOu never seem to notice when they do anything wrong, you always minimize their heious actions, and you're always defending them.

Well, your (and your two terrorist-loving buddies') precious terrorists are going home- IN BODY BAGS. Like they should.

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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Thursday, February 4, 2016 11:53 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Saudi Arabia stands at the ready to help the USA coalition "fight ISIL" ... in Syria!
And if you believe that, I've got a bridge to sell you!

The reality is that the USA would LIKE to emplace troops somewhere in Syria so they would have a bargaining chip of any sort. But this would never take place under UN auspices. So unless the USA is ready to do away with a UN figleaf altogether, and engage in an entirely illegal invasion, it's not going to happen.

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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Friday, February 5, 2016 10:59 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

GSTRING

Quote:
God, you're a clown. You have achieved self-parody.

SIGNYM rap:

O-Well, o-well
your and your
two and two
Terrorist-loving
Buddie-Buddies
precious precious
terrorists buddies
are going home
IN BODY BAGS
IN BODY BAGS
IN BODY BAGS

bump-sa-bump
bump-sa-bump
bump-sa-bump

Yanno that experiment that we were going to try - addressing each other's points instead of each other? Well, it lasted as long as your post in this thread.

Quote:
She builds her arguments from bricks made of shit....

You must have a really short memory, or poor impulse control, or absolutely no experience being an adult. You're the clown. Hell, look at your post!

You should be looking at whether or not I can explain and predict better than you. That's science. So far, your explanations and your expectations are batting about zero.

I'm not posting for you, or to you. Wallow in your self-imposed ignorance, I don't care.

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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Friday, February 5, 2016 5:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

THR
Quote:
I think all this is great. Many here have been flat out stating that SIG and 1kiki were Russian propagandists.

SIG
I guess that makes you a pro-ISIL terrorist-lover, then. YOu never seem to notice when they do anything wrong, you always minimize their heious actions, and you're always defending them.Well, your (and your two terrorist-loving buddies') precious terrorists are going home- IN BODY BAGS. Like they should.

I would love for you to show me where I posted anything positive or showing support for DASH. You can't because I have not. I've never minimized anything they have done. You're just a liar SIG and always have been.

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Friday, February 5, 2016 6:26 PM

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

On with the topic of the thread.

Aftermath of airstrikes on rebel-held Douma, children screaming. One of the *mildest* aftermath videos you will see:

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Friday, February 5, 2016 7:40 PM

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Russia and Assad displace tens of thousands in just a few days of attacks on Aleppo - 15,000 arrive at Turkish border: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-35503343

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Saturday, February 6, 2016 3:57 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Because, yanno, the many hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of refugees displaced by ISIL, al Nusar, al Qaida, and their allies of convenience the FSA are hardly worth mentioning?

The Syrian Xtian that I knew had family back in Aleppo. They managed to get one person to the States, a young woman whom my acquaintance promised to marry. But the rest of the family- the grandmother with diabetes, the mentally challenged uncle with seizures ... I've been wondering what happened to them when al Nusra took over. Healthy people can run faster. These were probably left behind. Since Aleppo was taken over by a combination of al Nusra, al Qaida, and ISIL and part of the population of Syria supports them and is pro-Sunni theocracy life for non-Sunnis must have been hell.

Anyway, I found this characterization of Aleppo refugees fleeing to Turkey in comments from Zerohedge.

Quote:
These are the civilian fuckers that stuck around because they are pro ISIS and they pointed out the houses of the Christian neighbors left behind. These fuckers were involved in the rape and pillaging. It shows since they didnt run when ISIS came to town but only when the good guys show up because they know there will be payback.

...

Quote:
Yep, Sunnistan collaborators. Now its payback for all that "Christians to Lebanon, Alawites to the grave" crap.

...

Quote:
These are obviously the ISIS losers that are getting pushed out of Aleppo. If this is war, round em up and send them to some fucking desert tent camp in far east syria where Russia can carpet bomb their asses.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-02-05/video-shows-tens-thousands-ma
ssing-turkey-border-russia-iran-bear-down-key-syrian-ci

And these were the nice comments! I'm not sensing much love for those "poor refugees" on ZH. God bless those ZHers, they're so cynical.

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Saturday, February 6, 2016 4:01 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

THR
Quote:
I think all this is great. Many here have been flat out stating that SIG and 1kiki were Russian propagandists.

SIG
I guess that makes you a pro-ISIL terrorist-lover, then. YOu never seem to notice when they do anything wrong, you always minimize their heious actions, and you're always defending them.Well, your (and your two terrorist-loving buddies') precious terrorists are going home- IN BODY BAGS. Like they should.

I would love for you to show me where I posted anything positive or showing support for DASH. You can't because I have not. I've never minimized anything they have done. You're just a liar SIG and always have been.

I would love for you to show me where I posted anything positive about Russia, except in their war against jihadists. And, you ARE against jihadists, are you not?

You dickless tool, you can't even keep your arguments straight!

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Sunday, February 7, 2016 7:34 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

So, while THUGR is busy scouring FFF.net posts for anything positive I might have said about Russia ... more importantly, what is happening in Syria? (the topic of the thread)

The UN talks are set to resume Feb 25. The USA, Saudi Arabia and other GCC, and Turkey, are anxious (I would imagine) to create NEW "facts on the ground" before the talks resume.

The SAA, along with Hezbollah, the IRGC, the Kurds, and Russia, are busy re-taking Aleppo from al Nusra/ ISIL/ ash Sham and the dozens of jihadist offshoots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_armed_groups_in_the_Syrian_Civil
_War and the so-called FSA.

Those fleeing Aleppo to Turkey, according to the cynical posters on Zerohedge, are probably native Sunni extremists who have betrayed their Xtian, Alawite, and Druze neighbors to the terrorists, so the terrorists could kill them and take over their houses. In post WWI Europe they were called "collaborators with the enemy". According to history, and to those ZH posters, they rightfully fear retribution.

Others are fleeing to Kurdish-controlled territory.

In the interests of creating "new facts on the ground", Saudi Arabia has offered to be part of any American coalition boots-on-the-ground invasion of Syria ... er, I mean, "effort to fight ISIL".

Turkey, meanwhile, has refused a routine and agreed-on Russian observational overflight of its Syrian border, and is massing troops and weapons on the Syrian border. Erdogan, I imagine, is hoping to parlay his NATO membership into support for an invasion of Turkey.

Meanwhile, any USA general worth his (or her) salt is busy considering those Russian Kaliber missiles, and wondering just how many are left.

Whatever happens, has to happen before Feb 25.

Stay tuned.

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Sunday, February 7, 2016 7:48 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

The ZEROHEDGE outlook

"They'll Return To Their Countries In A Wooden Coffin": Iran, Syria Warn Saudis, Turks Against Ground Troops

Quote:
Two days ago, a Saudi military spokesperson told AP that the kingdom is ready to send ground troops to Syria “to fight ISIS.”

That served as confirmation of what we’ve been saying for months and represented an affirmative answer to the following question that we posed in December: "Did Saudi Arabia just clear the way for an invasion of Syria?"

Four months ago, we previewed the “promised” battle for Aleppo, Syria’s second largest city, which is controlled by a mishmash of rebels [al- Qaida affiliates- SIGNY] and is one of the hardest hit urban centers in Syria. In October, Iran called up Shiite militias from Iraq, rallied thousands of Hezbollah troops, and coordinated with the Russian air force on the way to planning an assault on the city. Victory would mean effectively restoring Assad’s grip on power. So important was the battle, that Iran sent Quds commander Qassem Soleimani to the frontlines to spearhead a kind of pep rally prior to the assault. [He was injured at the time- SIGNY]

Fast forward four months and Russia, Iran, and Hezbollah are on the verge of routing the Syrian opposition [al Qaida affiliates - SIGNY]. After an arduous push north from Russia’s air field in Latakia, Aleppo is now encircled. Rebels and terrorists alike (assuming there’s a difference) are cut off from their supply lines in Turkey and Moscow’s warplanes are bearing down. Tens of thousands of people are fleeing the city ahead of what promises to be a truly epic battle.

Put simply: this is it. It’s almost over for the opposition.

That’s not to say ISIS isn’t still operating in the east. That, as we’ve said on a number of occasions, is another fight.

But the “moderate” opposition backed by the West and its regional allies is on the ropes. That’s why Saudi Arabia is floating the ground troop trial balloon. It has nothing to do with Islamic State and everything to do with making a last ditch effort to keep arch rival Iran from restoring the Alawite government in Damascus on the way to preserving the Shiite crescent and the supply line to Hezbollah in neighboring Lebanon.

Now, it’s do or die time. Either the Saudis and the Turks invade or it’s all over for the rebels.

And Iran knows it.

"I think Saudi Arabia is desperate to do something in Syria," Andreas Krieg of the Department of Defence Studies at King's College London, told AFP. He also notes that “the ‘moderate’ opposition is in danger of being routed if Aleppo falls to the regime.”

"Turkey is enthusiastic about the ground troop option since the Russians started their air operation and tried to push Turkey outside the equation," Mustafa Alani of the independent Gulf Research Centre added, underscoring Russia’s warning that Turkey may be preparing a ground assault.

If Turkey invades Syria, look for how the western press handles it. That will tell you how committed NATO is in supporting it.

Quote:
On Saturday, Tehran openly mocked the Saudis. "They claim they will send troops (to Syria), but I don't think they will dare do so," Maj. Gen. Ali Jafari told reporters. "They have a classic army and history tells us such armies stand no chance in fighting irregular resistance forces."

In other words, Iran just said the Saudis are useless when it comes to asymmetric warfare.

Readers will recall what we said back in October: “... it’s worth noting that using Hezbollah and Shiite militias to fight the ground war decreases the odds of Moscow getting mired in asymmetric warfare with an enemy they don’t fully understand.”

In other words, Hezbollah has no problem engaging in urban warfare - they practically invented it. The Saudis - not so much. "This will be like a coup de grace for them,” Jafari continued. “Apparently, they see no other way but this, and if this is the case, then their fate is sealed.”

Yes, “their fate will be sealed,” or, as Syrian Foreign Minister Walid al-Moualem said on Saturday, “I assure you any aggressor will return to their country in a wooden coffin, whether they be Saudis or Turks.”

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-02-06/theyll-return-their-countries
-wooden-coffin-iran-syria-warn-saudis-turks-against-gro

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Sunday, February 7, 2016 9:23 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Aaaaaaand finally (for today) ... also from Zerohedge:

An Exasperated John Kerry Throws In Towel On Syria: "What Do You Want Me To Do, Go To War With The Russians?!"

Quote:
“Russian and Syrian forces intensified their campaign on rebel-held areas around Aleppo that are still home to around 350,000 people and aid workers have said the city - Syria's largest before the war - could soon fall.”

Can you spot what’s wrong with that quote, from a Reuters piece out today? Here’s the problem: “could soon fall” implies that Aleppo is on the verge of succumbing to enemy forces. It’s not. It’s already in enemy hands and has been for quite some time. What Reuters should have said is this: “...could soon be liberated.”

This helps explain why THUGR and KPO are such nut-bags about who the real enemy is in Syria: they share the western press bias.

Quote:
While we’ll be the first to admit that Bashar al-Assad isn’t exactly the most benevolent leader in the history of statecraft, you can bet most Syrians wish this war had never started and if you were to ask those stranded in Aleppo what their quality of life is like now, versus what it was like in 2009, we’re fairly certain you’ll discover that residents aren’t particularly enamored with life under the mishmash of rebels that now control the city.

In any event, Russia and Iran have encircled Aleppo and once it “falls” (to quote Reuters) that’s pretty much it for the opposition. Or at least for the “moderate” opposition. And the Saudis and Turks know it.

So does John Kerry, who is desperate to restart stalled peace negotiations in Geneva. The problem for the US and its regional allies is simple: if Russia and Iran wipe out the opposition on the battlefield, there’s no need for peace talks. The Assad government will have been restored and that will be that. ISIS will still be operating in the east, but that’s a problem Moscow and Tehran will solve in short order once the country’s major urban centers are secured.

But another article mentions that Turkey and/or Saudi Arabia might want to implant special forces somewhere in Syraq, perhaps commingled with USA Special Forces.

Quote:
As we noted on Saturday, Riyadh and Ankara are extremely concerned that the five-year-old effort to oust Assad is about to collapse and indeed, the ground troop trial balloons have already been floated both in Saudi Arabia and in Turkey. For their part, the Russians and the Iranians have indicated their willingness to discuss a ceasefire but according to John Kerry himself, the opposition is now unwilling to come to the table.

“Don’t blame me – go and blame your opposition,’” an exasperated Kerry told aid workers on the sidelines of the Syria donor conference in London this week.

Wait- those aid organizations who helpfully provide info to the west about Russia's and Assad's "war crimes" are allied with ISIL, al Qaida, and the FSA???

Quote:
America’s top diplomat also said that the country should expect another three months of bombing

When Russia entered the fray Sept 30, their original estimate was 4-6 months. In three months, that will be 8 months.

Quote:
that would “decimate” the opposition, according to Middle East Eye who also says that Kerry left the aid workers with "the distinct impression" that the US is abandoning efforts to support rebel fighters.

In other words, Washington has come to terms with the fact that there's only one way out of this now. It's either go to war with Russia and Iran or admit that this particular effort to bring about regime change in the Mid-East simply isn't salvageable.

"He said that basically, it was the opposition that didn’t want to negotiate and didn’t want a ceasefire, and they walked away,” a second aid worker told MEE.

“‘What do you want me to do? Go to war with Russia? Is that what you want?’” the aid worker said Kerry told her.

MEE also says the US has completely abandoned the idea that Assad should step down. Now, apparently, Washington just wants Assad to stop using barrel bombs so the US can "sell the story to the public."

"A third source who claims to have served as a liaison between the Syrian and American governments over the past six months said Kerry had passed the message on to Syrian President Bashar al-Assad in October that the US did not want him to be removed," MEE says. "The source claimed that Kerry said if Assad stopped the barrel bombs, Kerry could 'sell the story' to the public, the source said."

Of course Kerry won't be able to "sell" that story to the Saudis and the Turks, or to Qatar, all of whom are now weighing their oppositions as the US throws in the towel.

"Kerry’s mixed messages after the collapse of the Geneva process have put more pressure on Turkey and Saudi Arabia," MEE concludes. "Both feel extreme unease at the potential collapse of the opposition US-recognised Free Syrian Army."

And so, as we said earlier this week, it's do or die time for Riyadh, Ankara, and Doha. Either this proxy war morphs into a real world war in the next two weeks, or Aleppo "falls" to Assad marking a truly humiliating defeat for US foreign policy and, more importantly, for the Saudis' goal of establishing Sunni hegemony in the Arabian Peninsula.

The only other option is for John Kerry to face the Russians in battle. As is evident from the sources quoted above, Washington clearly does not have the nerve for that.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-02-07/exasperated-john-kerry-throws
-towel-syria-what-do-you-want-me-do-go-war-russians

What THUGR and KPO should be asking themselves is ... who would they rather see victorious in Syria: Russian-backed Syrian forces, or ISIL/ al Qaida/FSA? And be honest with themselves.

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Monday, February 8, 2016 5:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI: Posted Dec. 23, 2015

Russia can not afford a protracted campaign in Syria. Especially since they are expending resources in the Ukraine as well. Their strategy is to inflict as much pain as quickly as they can, to influence their position in negotiations.

Is Putin's system finally starting to decay?

"It’s a fool’s errand to try to predict what might touch off political upheaval. A growing economy could forestall it. But a system built on corruption and intimidation will develop in that direction until it can’t anymore. When it’s time to apportion the blame, Russians are likely to recall one of their popular sayings: “A fish rots from the head.”

https://www.minnpost.com/foreign-concept/2016/02/putins-system-finally
-starting-decay

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Monday, February 8, 2016 9:08 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Before unpacking the question, let’s stipulate that:

1. Putin’s interventions in Ukraine, Crimea and Syria are less than an unqualified successes. Ukraine is a stalemate. Crimea is a drag on the economy. The Syrian government is nowhere near able to stand on its own.

2. Russia’s economy has been, and will continue to be, hurt by low oil prices.

3. But Putin remains very popular at home.

Yanno, the entire article makes one assertion after another, all without any ... evidence.

Oh that nasty word again.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Tuesday, February 9, 2016 8:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Before unpacking the question, let’s stipulate that:

1. Putin’s interventions in Ukraine, Crimea and Syria are less than an unqualified successes. Ukraine is a stalemate. Crimea is a drag on the economy. The Syrian government is nowhere near able to stand on its own.

2. Russia’s economy has been, and will continue to be, hurt by low oil prices.

3. But Putin remains very popular at home.

Quote:

Yanno, the entire article makes one assertion after another, all without any ... evidence.

Oh that nasty word again.

As you and SIG continue to spin the facts reality marches forward.

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Tuesday, February 9, 2016 1:06 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Syria is a clusterfuck not because of the many POVs there, but because of the millions of dollars and hundreds of tons of weapons poured into that nation, along with the invasion by thousands of foreign jihadists paid by Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Qatar and the USA CIA (indirectly). Because nothing creates a clusterfuck like fomenting a civil/ proxy war, on purpose.

The reality, G, is that in Syria there really are only two choices, because of who has chosen to exert themselves militarily:

Syria/ Russia/ Hezbollah/ Iran

OR

Saudi Arabia/ Turkey/ Qatar/ ISIL

One or the other is going to win. Not any other third or fourth party that you might prefer. From a moral or ethical standpoint, you might want to say "none of the above", and I might even agree, but that's just a hypothetical choice which is not going to happen, no matter how much you might want otherwise. I suspect that the USA might back some sort of "federalization" Sunnistan option as a third possibility, but I doubt that either Russia or Syria would allow that to happen. I think that Obama's restraint was brought about by Russia's open military assistance, because bombing Syria in 2013 suddenly didn't seem like such a good idea with Russia destroyers athwart the Syrian coast.

Now, given that only one or the other is going to occur, which one brings you closer to your goal of a democratic, open, secular Syria?

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Tuesday, February 9, 2016 2:42 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

This is something of a repeat of a previous Zerohedge posting, but the fact that the KSA keep re-proposing "boots on the ground" is worrisome

Quote:
As we reported yesterday, in one of the most surprising developments involving the Syrian proxy war, Saudi Arabia and U.S. presence on the ground, the latest twist is that both Turkey and Saudi Arabia are now mulling a full-scale invasion while Russia and the Syrian government continue their progress in wiping out the US and Saudi-funded rebellion. To be sure, there was confusion when CNN Arabia reported first that the Saudis may send as much as 150,000 troops into Saudi Arabia, by way of Turkey, something which Anadolu news promptly denied.

However, the denial itself was softly denied by the Saudi Press Agency, which further stirred the water earlier today when it reported that not only is Saudi Arabia ready to send a special force to fight in Syria, but that this deployment was proposed by the US, which would oversee the Saudi troops as part of the US-led coalition in Syria. To wit:

AL JUBEIR SAYS U.S. PROPOSED GROUND FORCE DEPLOYMENT: SPA
SAUDI FORCE WOULD FIGHT AS PART OF U.S.-LED COALITION: SPA
SAUDI MINISTER SAYS SENDING GROUND FORCE UNDER DISCUSSION: SPA
SAUDI ARABIA READY TO SEND SPECIAL FORCE TO FIGHT IS IN SYRIA

And so, what was until recently purely an air campaign involving all the major global powers (except China, for for the time being), is about to become a full-blown land war, involving not only Suunis and Shi'ites (especially once Iran joins the fray), but also Russian troops on one side and US and Saudis on the other.

Most notably, oil has refused to budge even an inch on what is rapidly shaping up as a precursor to World War III.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-02-09/saudi-arabia-prepares-send-sp
ecial-forces-syria-will-fight-part-us-led-coalition

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Wednesday, February 10, 2016 10:54 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

I think you place too much emphasis on how people "feel" about things. Most people are induced to feel one way or another about something because TPTB induce them to feel that way, for purposes of their own. The Saudi Royal Family has been pouring billions of petrodollars into wahhabist maddrassas for over 45 years ... since I was about 15, when I remember reading a distinct, impassioned, and long article about how the Horn of Africa was going to become radical Muslim if the western world didn't create a viable educational system there. The Saudis went on to radicalize Pakistan, which went on to radicalize Afghanistan etc. The USA must have had a deal with the Saudis, because "we" never interfered - despite full knowledge of what was happening- and we have found the jihadists somewhere between useful (Afghanistan, Chechnya, Yemen, Libya and the beginnings of Syria) to tolerable (Africa, Yemen) up to now. And then, funding jihadists with millions of dollars, arming them with hundreds of tons of weapons, and providing them with political cover (which KPO fully acknowledges) goes a long, long, long way to establishing their rule. You can't establishing a power base without these mechanics, as the fully-oligarchized USA is discovering.

Knowledgeable reporters (like Pepe Escobar) trace this to the attempted establishment of a Qatar to Mediterranean pipeline which is supposed to displace Russian gas from the EU, which is a USA geopolitical goal. In his view, this is so much pipeline-drive that he has called this region "Pipelineistan".

How people feel is very malleable. The population of the USA can be turned against any nation within a few months. Just look at how people jumped on board the various invasions of formerly unnoticeable nations, like Grenada and Panama and Afghanistan and Iraq.

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Wednesday, February 10, 2016 1:20 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

What I'm trying to say is that how society works, and the way it runs, isn't just a reflection of the average opinion of "people" or how they feel. If that were the case, there would not be the misery that we have today, when most people don't get what they want or need. Society becomes something between an organism and an ecology. I go into a lot more detail about what I think the real drivers of society are in

Quote:
Society is not the government, or the nation

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60332

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Wednesday, February 10, 2016 7:24 PM

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Syrian regime 'exterminating detainees' - UN report:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-35521801

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Wednesday, February 10, 2016 8:23 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

But when the US kills or 'renders' detainees, it's A-OK!

And when the 'militants' (officially on the US terror list) overrun a city or region they politely ask people who disagree with them to please leave their homes and possessions, schools and places of worship and businesses behind and please find another place to live.

Right?

Or do you find the accusations in the MSM peculiarly one-sided? Because from what I've been reading, only a few bad apples sawed of people's heads with dull knives or set them alight in cages, and that was ages ago. Other than that - if you go by what you see in the MSM - they must be perfect gentlemen.

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Wednesday, February 10, 2016 9:39 PM

Gotta say it again, I LOVE IT. The past year we have witnessed SIG and 1KIKI defend atrocity after atrocity when committed by Putin and his allies. Their credibility when pointing the finger at anybody for anything is now officially nil. Them complaining about atrocities against man going forward will only be met with laughter.

Nice job guys, you've

yourselves. AGAIN

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Thursday, February 11, 2016 6:22 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

To quote from the BBC itself

Quote:
The report says thousands of detainees have been killed while in the custody of warring parties* during that time.

* "Warring parties" like ... ISIL? FSA? Ahrar ash Sham? Al Qaida? Hezbollah? Syrian government?

As G has so helpfully pointed out, there are quite a few "warring parties" in Syria, of which the Syrian government is only one. The BBC quote leads me to think that the actual report talks about many bad actors, but KPO - with his axe to grind - focuses on only one. I'm sure there are atrocities all the way around, some of which can be placed on the Syrian government, and some of which can be placed elsewhere.

The detainees are portrayed as just a group of democracy-loving secularists, when in reality you have no idea how many may have been Sunni extremists. My Syrian Xtian acquaintance was horrified from the get-go about what was happening, he and his family in Syria realized almost from the start that this was a "depose Assad" movement, not a "pro-democracy" movement, and as a non-Sunni minority he predicted- accurately- where this was all going. I still trust his reaction more than the western press: many demonstrators were pro-Sunni Sharia law. Democracy was not in their plans, but it WAS a convenient cover-story for the western press, just like R2P was a convenient cover-story for Libya and WMD was a convenient cover-story for Iraq.

Well, whether Sunni terrorists or not, they shouldn't be tortured. That's an aspect of the Syrian government which needs to be changed. But you're not going to get where you want to go by allowing extremists to dismember the government, and turn Syria in Libya or Iraq or Afghanistan ...

which is where KPO and THUGR seem to be heading unerringly.

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Thursday, February 11, 2016 6:25 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Gotta say it again, I LOVE IT. The past year we have witnessed SIG and 1KIKI defend atrocity after atrocity when committed by Putin and his allies

I've always said: COUNT THE BODIES first, and scale your criticism based on that.

Well, have you counted the bodies?

Because so far, in the body count, the USA is way ahead.

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Thursday, February 11, 2016 6:39 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Meanwhile ...

Quote:
Two US Air Force A-10 Thunderbolt II assault warplanes carried out airstrikes on Aleppo Wednesday, destroying nine facilities, Russia’s Defense Ministry reported. The same day, the Pentagon accused Moscow of bombing two Aleppo hospitals, while there were no Russian flights over the city.

https://www.rt.com/news/332109-russian-jets-isis-warlords/

-----------

G: Well, I could have quoted Reuters. It's a NEWS ITEM. Hello...
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-aleppo-airstrik
e-idUSKCN0VK0JD

Feel better now?
I guess that Russia doesn't want to get into a shooting war with the USA.

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Thursday, February 11, 2016 10:38 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Since you liked the previous link to RT.com so much, here's another one:

ISIS execution video shows 4yo 'Jihadi Junior' blowing up 'British spies'

Quote:
Islamic State has released a new clip showing a British boy, nicknamed 'Jihadi Junior' and thought to be aged four, blowing up three prisoners. The kid with an ISIS headband is seen pressing a button on a remote control device seconds before a car with alleged “spies” inside explodes.
Trends
Islamic State

In the video, believed to have been shot by Islamic State (IS, formerly ISIS/ISIL) in their de facto capital of Raqqa, “Jihadi Junior,” dressed in camouflage clothing, is seen pointing to the "non-believers." The men inside the car, wearing handcuffs and orange jumpsuits, obediently confess their "crimes" to the camera shortly before their vehicle explodes.

The boy is accompanied by a young masked man, who makes a threat to British Prime Minister David Cameron. Speaking in an English accent, the man, whose face is covered, vows that his fighters will not be defeated. He accuses the Conservative Party leader of sending armed groups in Syria to fight the jihadists, adding that the killing of three “spies” will be revenge.

More at
https://www.rt.com/news/332116-jihadi-junior-execution-video/

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Thursday, February 11, 2016 2:04 PM

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
You quoting putin.com is priceless.

I know, she claims to not be 'pro-Russian' but keeps posting Russian government propaganda!!

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Thursday, February 11, 2016 2:06 PM

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

International Red Cross: "Increase in airstrikes and ongoing sieges “making a mockery” of international efforts to help Syrians"
http://www.rescue.org/press-releases/increase-airstrikes-and-ongoing-s
ieges-%E2%80%9Cmaking-mockery%E2%80%9D-international-efforts-help-sy

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Close to 100,000 people have been forced to flee their homes to escape air-strikes in Syria since the beginning of the month. Nearly, 42,000 people have fled northern Aleppo, with the majority heading to the Turkish border, and up to 50,000 people are estimated to have escaped air strikes in Dara’a province by fleeing into the countryside or towards the Jordanian border. More than a thousand have also fled their homes in the north Syrian province of Lattakia.

David Miliband, President of the IRC, said: “That nearly 100,000 have fled their homes less than a week since world leaders pledged over $10 billion to support humanitarian efforts is making a mockery of the international community’s commitment to help Syrians. The severe disregard for the safety of civilians leaves Syrians no choice but to flee for their lives.”

“IRC aid workers in northern Syria have told me that they know of least two infant deaths due to malnutrition and the cold at the border. These airstrikes even left some of our staff with no choice but to sleep rough for several nights, but many have it far worse. Syrians are in desperate need of shelter, water, food, blankets and clothes."

All of which reminds me of this:

SIGNY:

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The Syrian Xtian that I knew had family back in Aleppo. They managed to get one person to the States, a young woman whom my acquaintance promised to marry. But the rest of the family- the grandmother with diabetes, the mentally challenged uncle with seizures ... I've been wondering what happened to them

Ah the Syrian family you like to bring up so regularly. Still wondering about them? Well from the above there's a good chance they've been blown to pieces by Russian airstrikes/barrel bombs, or are fearing that it could happen any moment, or are amongst the 100,000+ that have fled their homes and are shivering in the cold on the ground on the Turkish border.

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Thursday, February 11, 2016 3:20 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Dear THUGGERY

Hey asshole - why don't you quote where I 'defended Russia'. Because I didn't, and you will not be able to find where I did.

So, why don't you go take your opinions and your trolling, and shove them way back up in the dark smelly place they came from?

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Thursday, February 11, 2016 3:49 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

So, for anyone else who can read, and think, and is honest - well, I guess that keeps krappo, thuggery and 'g'string off the list - what I was pointing out is how slanted the media coverage about terrorists has been in order to conform to the neocon agenda.

Going WAY back, when al-Qaeda was fighting the Russians in Afghanistan, the US called them 'freedom fighters'.

After 9-11 (remember 9/11? when al-Qaeda terrorists took over 4 large commercial jets and flew them, or attempted to fly them, into 4 separate mass targets on US home soil in places you know?) they were put on the terror list as 'evildoers' (one of Bush's milder descriptions) and Bush vowed to get bin Laden 'dead or alive'. And as al-Qaeda and its offshoots spread terror from one country to the next it remained on the list of top US targets.

Until Syria, that is. Then suddenly, despite it STILL being on the terrorist organization list, it became moderate and acceptable again. Maybe a little rough around the edges, but useful for the US. The US government did everything but going back to calling them 'freedom fighters'. Now they're just 'rebels' in the fight for Syrian 'freedom'.

And even ISIS is getting a free pass nowadays. After their initial gruesome bloody days, (remember? people getting their heads sawn off slowly, agonizing minute by agonizing minute, with dull blades; and people being set alight in cages?) if you go by what you're NOT hearing about them in the media, they've become perfect gentlemen. Don't never do nothin' bad to nobody.

If you believe all this spin ... krappo, thuggery and 'g'string, that means you ... I have a bridge to sell you.

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Thursday, February 11, 2016 6:13 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
The Syrian Xtian that I knew had family back in Aleppo. They managed to get one person to the States, a young woman whom my acquaintance promised to marry. But the rest of the family- the grandmother with diabetes, the mentally challenged uncle with seizures ... I've been wondering what happened to them - SIGNY

Ah the Syrian family you like to bring up so regularly. Still wondering about them? Well from the above there's a good chance they've been blown to pieces by Russian airstrikes/barrel bombs

First of all, Russians don't use barrel-bombs, which are a low-tech, low yield weapon. Any entity using a barrel bombs is using them out of lack of resources, they're not the scourge that you've been told.

Second, why do you imagine that the Russians are bombing indiscriminately? Yes, they're conducting a lot of airstrikes, but (according to them, anyway) they don't strike a target unless its been confirmed by several different sources. All of figures that you've come up with ... 8 civilians killed here, 9 killed there ... I'm not hearing about mass civilians deaths in the western press, despite the western press' obvious intentions- and yours- to paint the Russians in the worst possible light

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or are fearing that it could happen any moment, or are amongst the 100,000+ that have fled their homes and are shivering in the cold on the ground on the Turkish border.

Or have fled to Afrin, where the Kurds are.

Yes, it's a terrible tragedy. How about this: Instead of blaming the Russians for bombing the "rebels", why don't we expect the "rebels" to cede the city and save the population from warfare? Why not put the blame for this clusterfuck on who started it and who's been propelling it forward: Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Qatar, UAE, and the USA CIA? OH, I KNOW WHY! Because you're too one-sided to look at this realistically.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Thursday, February 11, 2016 7:40 PM

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
Any entity using a barrel bombs is using them out of lack of resources, they're not the scourge that you've been told.

Says who? Russian state media and your echo-chamber of pro-Russian anti-Western blogs.

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Second, why do you imagine that the Russians are bombing indiscriminately?

Err, 100,000 displaced in less than 2 weeks?? And who said anything about 'indiscriminately'? Hospitals, market places etc. - it seems to me Russia's bombing of civilian infrastructure is heavily targeted.

Quote:
Why not put the blame for this clusterfuck on who started it and who's been propelling it forward: Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Qatar, UAE, and the USA CIA?

Even if it were true that the backers of the rebels started this war (it's not, and they didn't), what we're talking about in this thread is WAR CRIMES committed by Russia and Assad. There is NEVER any excuse for them, no matter how hard you try to deflect and blame someone else.

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why don't we expect the "rebels" to cede the city and save the population from warfare?

Just amazing reasoning. And staggering hypocrisy. Can you say why the Syrian rebels should be obliged to do this, but the pro-Russian separatists defending against Ukrainian government offensives shouldn't?

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Thursday, February 11, 2016 7:40 PM

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
Any entity using a barrel bombs is using them out of lack of resources, they're not the scourge that you've been told.

Says who? Russian state media and your echo-chamber of pro-Russian anti-Western blogs.

Quote:
Second, why do you imagine that the Russians are bombing indiscriminately?

Quote:
Why not put the blame for this clusterfuck on who started it and who's been propelling it forward: Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Qatar, UAE, and the USA CIA?

Quote:
why don't we expect the "rebels" to cede the city and save the population from warfare?

Just amazing reasoning. And staggering hypocrisy. Remember back in spring/early summer 2014 when the Ukrainian government was driving back the separatists, and laying siege to Donetsk and Luhansk? And you were howling against the Ukrainian government for attacking population centres? And NOT condemning the separatists for defending from them? Can you say why the Syrian rebels should be obliged to cede cities in their control to an attacking government, but the pro-Russian separatists shouldn't?

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Thursday, February 11, 2016 8:18 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Your 'separatists' are ISIS. I guess you like ISIS.

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Thursday, February 11, 2016 8:25 PM