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Originally posted by DREAMTROVE:
SO not walking into this firestorm, just to feed a piece of information.

This is NOT a conspiracy theory, it's now established fact now, so whoever this helps, you're welcome, whoever loses point on this score, sorry, that's life.

The Turkish militants just confessed to their part in the Benghazi transfer of chemical weapons to Al Nusra for use against Assad in a false flag attack.

Their report completely backs up the story Seymour Hersh broke a couple years ago, the real story of Benghazi, that HRC used JSCO to transfer the weapons and then transfer weapons to Libyan rebels along with a list of targets that included the American consulate.

Hersh basically covers everything in his article, so there's not need for me to do so here, but I know the New Yorker originally rejected the story because they thought it would hurt Hillary, so it ran in Al Jazeera, a few on others.

The conclusion of the piece is that the gas attacks, both the initial 1500 victim attack and the total 15000, were in fact carried out from Al Nusra, with weapons surrendered to the Benghazi US consulate by Muammar Gaddafi. The weapons were transfered to Al Nusra by HRC. Al Nusra carried out the attacks, as a false flag to blame Assad and get open western support. They failed to get open support and have since joined ISIS.

Again, not arguing the point, just posting to end any argument as to the responsibility for the gas attacks, and the source of chemical weapons in Syria.

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Originally posted by 6STRINGJOKER:
Hey DT,

Go back and read all 1,000 posts over the weekend. We expect a book report on Monday.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
"During the last week of January, Syrian government forces supported by Russian airstrikes began a ground offensive in the northern part of the Aleppo Countryside governorate to break the siege imposed by armed groups on the towns of Nubul and Zahraa."

The quote above is the only reference specifically to Russian airstrikes.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
But there's nothing in that quote about airstrikes on hospitals or medical facilities that the article claims to be addressing.

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Originally posted by 1kiki: Maybe they got wise to the fact that astute people were noticing the lack of evidence for their claims.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
In any case, you won't find a single - not one - claim of specifically Russian airstrikes targeting the places they claim were targeted. Which is a glaringly obvious omission for an article you seem to think is about those bad Russians targeting civilians.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
And, in your haste to draw your pre-formed conclusions..."

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Originally posted by 1kiki: ... you missed the most important message in the story... "

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
- the siege was imposed by the terrorist groups that the Russians and Syrians are fighting against. "During the last week of January, Syrian government forces supported by Russian airstrikes began a ground offensive in the northern part of the Aleppo Countryside governorate to break the siege imposed by armed groups on the towns of Nubul and Zahraa."

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Originally posted by G:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So now, everyone is a craven coward because NOBODY in their right mind would welcome government troops??

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Huh? I can't even guess how your brain got so narrow. Little Signym One Note. Why do you almost always go 180 degrees to the negative assumption? You need so much hand holding.
So what you said, just the opposite in fact. EVERYONE in their right mind would welcome the stopping of shelling and cheer whoever the hell comes in as the victor - do you get that? Remember how just one post ago I said people welcomed ISIL?

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
This is your problem, in a nutshell: You just can't believe that anyone might have different motivations than you. You can't believe anyone would willingly join ISIL, [wrong - unbased assumption] and you can't believe anyone would willingly support Assad.[wrong - unbased assumption] You can't believe anyone would willingly fight Kiev, either. [wrong - unbased assumption] Any time anyone expresses an opinion that you don't share, they're either mistaken, or they're forced into it. [wrong - unbased assumption] Because they're all REALLY just GSTRING under the skin, or if they're not- they should be. There's just no other right way to think, except the way GSTRING thinks. [wrong - unbased assumption]

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Again, just the opposite of your assumptions. I think that's your thing, the way you preserve your fragile ego is to make these negative assumptions so you can easily knock them down. Kind of lazy and weak and very tedious. You also over simply most things. The life of some average citizen living in the hell that is Syria is full of trade offs. Where am I living? Where do my friends and family live. Who controls these areas? Who will best support me and family/friends in the future? Who do I have more to worry about. Who looks like they will win? Who does my neighbor support? Like the sands of the desert, it's an ever shifting list. Gee, I think someone said that before - were you listening? Are you listening?

Almost forgot to re-ask you: what does Russia gain from this?

I love this! What a steaming pile... where you there to ask these people?

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Here's the way it works, son: SOME of the people who could run- ran. With the approach of Sunni jihadists towards Aleppo, Xtians, Druze, Alawites, etc who could run - ran. SOME of "the people" welcomed jihadism. WHY? Because they were Sunnis theocrats under-the-skin who wanted to impose their theocracy on everyone. SOME of the population fought. Why? Because they were not Sunni theocrats under-the-skin, and they viewed the Sunni theocrats as an existential threat. MANY ducked their heads and tried to hang on, hoping for help from elsewhere. Why? Because they had neither the physical nor emotional capacity to fight OR to run, so they "hid". And SOME, through either fear or reward, changed sides and joined the jihadists ... they collaborated.

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You must have the best Google map app to see all of that - wait, I know, it's easy for you. Except, most of that is "no shit" people doing whatever to survive, as already stated. A lot is just your imagined powers of *guessing* from an over-priced yuppie computer chair in Cali.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
With the current approach of four plus one troops, those who are running are mostly Sunni theocrats and their collaborators (and family) because they fear retribution. Yanno, kind of like what happened after WWII with Nazi collaborators. It's as simple as that, and ... you should have figured that out by now.

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"...four plus one troops..." do you have one of their t-shirts? Are you typing while wearing one of their hats?

4+1
=
DEATH

You sound like a sports fan.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
The fact that you have to castigate an entire people as collaborators... some of whom are against Sunni theocracy and terrorism ... says an awful lot about you.

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*snort* Eh? What would a SIGNYM post be without a lie? I know - you just can't help yourself.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
It says that you can't differentiate among groups and see (much less accept) their diverse motivations. That explains your failure to understand that MANY Syrians support Assad.

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Both wrong and obvious - they had a good life under Assad and want it back - doesn't take a 10,000 word post to say that.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
It explains your failure to recognize that nearly all of the Crimean population happily voted to secede from Ukraine, and a third of Ukrainians were angry with or afraid of the new regime in Kiev. It explains your failure to see that at least a third of Libyans STRONGLY supported Qaddafi, which is why "the war" required NATO bombing and tons (literally) of Qatari and Saudi support. And that Iraq would head in three entirely different directions. You so strongly assume that everyone feels (or should feel) the way GSTRING feels that entire groups ... quite possibly close to three-quarters of the globe ... of people are invalid/ invisible to you, and anything they say is dismissable as cowardice or collaboration.

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"It explains your failure to recognize..."
Yahtzee! Double points for making more sh*t up twice. When did I voice an opinion on any of those mostly unrelated topics? Never? So you made that up then - ok.

"GSTRING feels that entire groups ... quite possibly close to three-quarters of the globe ... of people are invalid/ invisible to you, and anything they say is dismissable as cowardice or collaboration."

Hahahahahahahaha! You may be a liar but you're also a crack up.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I'm using a lot of words hoping that SOME of them will get through, but here's the point: You're on the wrong side of this moral equation. You, THUGR, and KPO. Somehow, you've wound up on the side of ISIL and jihadism. How did you get there?

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Because innocent civilian babies taste best when roasted with scuds!

You really are a total drama queen / idiot.

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Originally posted by DREAMTROVE:
6, lol

Thg,

I already said. I posted 1 story by Sy Hersh, there are others, anyone can just search seymour hersh, syria, and fine everything.

Second, wikileaks i mentioned, again, search wikileaks syria, and you'll find these accounts in agreement.

third, i mentioned the turkish militants confess, somewhere i already posted the story, but again, easier to find it probably just by searching.

this isn't like climate change, there actually really isn't a debate about differing accounts with solid backing. Even the UN agreed with this account, and said they wouldn't put it in the first report, because they didn't want ot anger the US, so they made a second report and released it anyway.

So everybody knows, HRC put the hit on Benghazi to cover up the hit they put on Syria, We were defeated by Lebanon, of all nations, and Russia came in to clean up the mess. Well, good for Russia. I hear Syria is a very nice place, I'd like to go sometimes. And all those immigrants in Sweden I'm sure would love to get back there, once the US is gone.

It's strange that all the liberals are baking the fundamentalist far right sunni theocrats against the alawite (unitarian) socialist govt of Bashar al Assad. That's not liberal, that's just party line democrat into high absurdity.The Saudis and their US puppets want this, but no one else wants it. God knows the Syrians don't want it.

If the Syrians wanted someone else, it's a democracy, they could just vote for someone else. The fact of the matter remains that Assad, like Putin, has a higher approval rating than any US president this century. And they deserve it, because they're actually defending their people, not fucking around in some forgotten corner of the world where most of the people back home in their country would never have heard of the place or speak the language or even be able to pronounce the names.

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Originally posted by DREAMTROVE:
It's strange that all the liberals are baking the fundamentalist far right sunni theocrats against the alawite (unitarian) socialist govt of Bashar al Assad. That's not liberal, that's just party line democrat into high absurdity.The Saudis and their US puppets want this, but no one else wants it. God knows the Syrians don't want it.

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No one seems to have noticed that thread, or the Korea one.

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Originally posted by DREAMTROVE:
That a proven fact is still dismissed because it conflicts with Thgr's opinion.

You asked me to explain, so I did. Obviously i'm not going to do your work for you, I have other things to do, I have to heal myself of a terminal illness. I don't actually care who agrees with me. I'm just hear to learn stuff I didn't know.

I took the time to do this because you insisted. I have no interest in changing anyone's mind.Try learning something you don't already know.

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Originally posted by THGRRI:

This is Putin's propaganda and you dreamtrove are spreading it.

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Originally posted by DREAMTROVE:

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Originally posted by THGRRI:

This is Putin's propaganda and you dreamtrove are spreading it.

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Nah it's my opinion.

Keep it Shiny.

BTW, you have a point on Iraq. I say enough with them socialists already, but I'm not a Syrian. Obama tried "let's kill a million syrians, and leave 11 million refugees homeless." And Hillary made it happen.

that's also my opinion.

As for the election, anyone not succeeding in running against the party in power would need to establish a based, have a pro-syrian rather than western puppet platform, and collection some international watchdogs not run by a t-shirt shop in Coventry.

meanwhile, looks like there's a brand new nation of ISIS, where you can buy a tween slavegirl.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/roughly-3-000-women-girls-sold-i
sis-sex-slave-market-article-1.2700156

Good job Obama, that's change I can believe in.

I'm sure Trump going to war with them won't help.

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Originally posted by kpo:
It goes on, every day, away from the headlines.

Douma city, earlier today:

(Another video Sig and kiki will no doubt dismiss as "fake".)


-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Evidence the Syrian regime sponsors ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521

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Editor's note: This story contains extremely graphic images of dead children.

She stares off into the distance as she gasps for air, her tiny chest heaving desperately to take in more oxygen. Her eyes are wide and unflinching, her pupils constricted, the panic behind them clear.

The little girl looks confused: she doesn't understand why she is dying, why she is lying in the back of a truck with other small children, some foaming at the mouth, others motionless, the life already gone from them.

The ground all around her is strewn with bodies, some wracked with convulsions, thrashing around in the mud as rescue workers attempt in vain to hose off the chemical agent that has blanketed them.

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Originally posted by G:

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Originally posted by kpo:
The latest HRW report on the Syrian government's use of chemical weapons, including at Khan Shaykhun:

https://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/report_pdf/syria0517_web_2.pdf

-------------------------------------------------------

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

Russia's and Assad's War Crimes in Syria - http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60278
Evidence the Syrian regime sponsors ISIS - http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=60521

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Thanks KPO. Sadly, I have little hope that the work these people do will have any effect on stopping the war. Nor do I think the involvement from the US or other outside forces would have ANY positive influence on the outcome. It might actually cause more deaths of innocents. It's hard to think of any time in the last 50 years where there has been such a hell hole as Syria. That whole country will be dead bodies and concrete rubble and a bunker with Assad crouching in the corner when this is done.

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Putin's getting desperate for a solution. Remember,
the Russian economy is roughly the size of Italy's. Their ambassador is meeting with Trump today.

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“The attempt to cover up mass murders in the Assad crematorium is reminiscent of the 20th century’s worst offenses against humanity,” said Nikki R. Haley, the American ambassador to the United Nations.

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Originally posted by kpo:
The latest HRW report on the Syrian government's use of chemical weapons, including at Khan Shaykhun:

https://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/report_pdf/syria0517_web_2.pdf

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The FFM’s [Fact Finding Mission of the OPCW] mandate is to determine whether chemical weapons or toxic chemicals as weapons have been used in Syria; it does not include identifying who is responsible for alleged attacks.

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FFM was unable to visit Khan Shaykhun.

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The rapid deployment to a neighbouring country, however, enabled the team to attend autopsies, collect bio-medical samples from casualties and fatalities, interview witnesses and receive environmental samples.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
BTW, that's what I do for a living: I munch through raw data - both ours and other laboratory's - of trace chemical analyses. Sometimes its of commercial products, sometimes its of toxic releases. I do everything from look at the raw analysis data to mapping the results to giving the results a "sanity check", and I'm VERY good at what I do. VERY good. You have no idea of the breadth of errors that I'm capable of detecting. When our agency staff has a report they really want checked over, they give it to me. And just to give you an idea how closely our work resembles that of the OPCW, one of our chemists, who was trained in my group, just got a job at an international chemical-weapons-monitoring group doing an analysis that's almost exactly the same as ours.

That's why I go on so much about physical evidence. It can be very important; OTOH it can be equivocal, flawed, or even manipulated.

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BTW, that's what I do for a living: I munch through raw data - both ours and other laboratory's - of trace chemical analyses. Sometimes its of commercial products, sometimes its of toxic releases. I do everything from look at the raw analysis data to mapping the results to giving the results a "sanity check", and I'm VERY good at what I do. VERY good. You have no idea of the breadth of errors that I'm capable of detecting. When our agency staff has a report they really want checked over, they give it to me. And just to give you an idea how closely our work resembles that of the OPCW, one of our chemists, who was trained in my group, just got a job at an international chemical-weapons-monitoring group doing an analysis that's almost exactly the same as ours.

That's why I go on so much about physical evidence. It can be very important; OTOH it can be equivocal, flawed, or even manipulated. - SIGNY

Sig, if you really knew your shit and could critically review evidence, you wouldn't fall for so many dumb conspiracy theories. Was it you or kiki who claimed that MH17 was shot down by a Ukrainian fighter jet?- KRAPO

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Yes, I said it was a POSSIBLE explanation.

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Wait? What? She lied?? - GSTRING

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Was it you or kiki who claimed that MH17 was shot down by a Ukrainian fighter jet?- KRAPO

Neither one of us, you lying sack of shit. But thanks for the bump! - SIGNY

Hmm. Here's the main page in the Russia invades Ukraine thread where you assert the plausibility of a Ukrainian fighter jet being responsible for downing MH17, including posting a video about how the MH17 wreckage has apparent machine gun damage:

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Sig, if you really knew your shit and could critically review evidence, you wouldn't fall for so many dumb conspiracy theories. Was it you or kiki who claimed that MH17 was shot down by a Ukrainian fighter jet?- KPO

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Oh yes you did. You trolled against the truth with every possible explanation; except, the Russians did it. Just another example of your trolling SIG.

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You trolled against the truth with every possible explanation

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Why argue that hard for something you're not convinced by? To stop other people drawing the correct conclusion?

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The Dutch Safety Board (DSB) reported yesterday that its evidence for concluding that a single ground-to-air Buk missile caused the crash of Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17 was
an explosive blast of sound on the cockpit voice recorder lasting 2.3 milliseconds;
a spray pattern of damage to the cockpit area of the fuselage;
three distinctively shaped metal fragments found in the bodies of the cockpit crew;
a chemical analysis of explosive residues missing 2 out of 3 warhead explosives;
and a match of paint samples collected up to 4 months apart.

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... aviation lawyers close to the MH17 case now believe there is no evidence of a crime – a war crime, a crime against humanity, or a crime of terrorism — that would meet international prosecution standards. ...

However, it will be difficult to prove that Russian forces, even if they provided the weapons, were aware of the alleged criminal act that the separatists were about to commit ...

... victims may rather want to pursue the avenue of civil liability of assorted organized actors, in particular of Ukraine [For directing air traffic over a conflict area? SIGNY], the Russian Federation [for potentially providing the weapon], the People’s Republics Donetsk/Luhansk [the party potentially response for firing the missile], and Malaysia Airlines [Good lord, I have no idea why, other than they have deep pockets and its easy to prove the passengers were on the airplane! - SIGNY]

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Nope. To prevent people from JUMPING to conclusions, WHICH YOU DO ALL THE TIME. It's called "rush to judgment".

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But we keep being right- KRAPO

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From what I've read so far, since everybody uses the same or similar equipment, it would be hard to tell the difference between a Kiev-controlled APC and a Russian one except by close examination ....

If the convoy was destroyed, there should be a line of burned-out APCs visible by satellite or drone. There should be prisoners or bodies. But again, no photos, no evidence, no on-the-ground examination.

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So, in your opinion, the USA invaded Panama to stop drug flow, but didn't make a dent in it. The USA bombed Afghanistan to destroy the Taliban and bring democracy, but failed. The USA embargoed, bombed, invaded and occupied Iraq in order to topple a tyrant and bring freedom to the people, and after 10 years and a trillion dollars left a great smoking clusterfuck of ruin. The USA and NATO bombed Libya to support pro-democracy rebels' fight against Qaddafi, but wound up promoting jihadists instead. The USA fomented rebellion in Syria to topple (yet another) tyrant, and wound up arming and funding ISIl/ISIS/IS. The USA agitated to split South Sudan from Sudan to save the black Xtian South Sudanese from their Arab Muslim northern overlords, and ended up with a corrupt government and civil war.

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... and all your alternate theories keep being wrong.- KRAPO

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No, you keep being wrong.

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Here's another case where you were wrong: Proshenko claims he destroyed a Russian military convoy in Ukraine... NO EVIDENCE. This particular unprovable incident

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Here are a few more cases where you were wrong:

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Unlike you, I refuse to settle on one fixed conclusion until there's enough evidence to analyze.

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No, you keep being wrong. Every one of the 4 examples I gave of me (and others) being right has been verified by official bodies - weapons inspectors, official MH17 investigators and the Russian government actually confessing.

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So what higher authority are you citing to tell me I'm wrong? Zerohedge? Your own "expertise"? You know better from behind your computer than weapons and aviation experts who've analysed the physical evidence?

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Russia annexing Crimea with its "little green men".- KRAPO

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Russia waging war in the Donbass.-KRAPO

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MH17 being shot down by a Buk from separatist territory.- KRAPO

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The Khan Shaykun attack being Sarin.- KRAPO

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It would be instructive to drill down on this data.
How many samples were brought to the FFM? Five? A hundred?
How were they geographically distributed at the original site?
Out of all of the samples brought to the FFM, how many showed Sarin residue?
Was it in expected concentrations? Were they able to look for impurities and stabilizers?
Did they test for anything else?

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Here's another case where you were wrong: Proshenko claims he destroyed a Russian military convoy in Ukraine... NO EVIDENCE. This particular unprovable incident ... SIGNY

First of all: STRAWMAN. Neither I, nor anyone else on this board (as far as I know) asserted that Poroshenko's claim was true.

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Russian military has moved into Ukraine - fact.- GSTRING

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Second: utter logic fail. You think that a lack of evidence means that a claim is definitely wrong?? No. A lack of evidence means just that - a lack of evidence. Something can be completely true and still, for various reasons, lack evidence.

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Here are a few more cases where you were wrong: .... SIGNY

Oh piss off. Now you're just quoting one of your rants from another thread??= KRAPO

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Unlike you, I refuse to settle on one fixed conclusion until there's enough evidence to analyze.- SIGNY

Ha, you utter clown, that's exactly what you've just done, repeatedly. "Assad didn't gas his own people" "Russia didn't send a convoy into Ukraine". The evidence is to the contrary for both of these "fixed conclusions"

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but more than that, you categorically can NOT prove them. I'll give you a clue: it's logically impossible. And yet here you are, stating these two conclusions as facts.- KRAPO

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Russia annexing Crimea with its "little green men".- KRAPO

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I never said it didn't happen, so what ARE you going on about?

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I never said it wasn't Sarin.

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MH17 being shot down by a Buk from separatist territory.- KRAPO
I never said it wasn't.

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First of all: STRAWMAN. Neither I, nor anyone else on this board (as far as I know) asserted that Poroshenko's claim was true.
Except GSTRING

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Russia annexing Crimea with its "little green men".- KRAPO
I never said it didn't happen, so what ARE you going on about?

Here's you arguing it didn't happen:
Signym: "But, yes, there were "little green men" in Crimea, in the background and not doing anything, as far as I - or anyone- can tell."
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=58021&p=1

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I never said it wasn't Sarin.- SIGNY

Here's you saying it wasn't sarin:
Signym: "As far as I can tell, this attack was just as phony as the "Assad gassed his own people in Ghouta" story. One telling point- for those who have not bothered to look into the evidence - is that the "rescuers" were handling the "victims" with bare hands. If the CW agent were really Sarin, the "rescuers" themselves would have been dead. That is an .incontrovertible. fact. Ergo, everyone who says it was "sarin" is lying or mistaken."
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=61551&p=2

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MH17 being shot down by a Buk from separatist territory.- KRAPO
I never said it wasn't. - SIGNY
Ha, actually you said several times that Kiev was to blame for MH17.

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But you don't seem to understand what you are being accused of. You seem to have lost the thread of the whole argument. I gave 4 examples where I was right (and others) and where YOU argued otherwise. Now, your arguing otherwise was not always saying we were 100% wrong - you sometimes simply pushed alternate (false) theories hard, and accused us of "rushing to judgement". But we were right. And you were arguing against the truth. Repeatedly. This is my point, and you can't deny it.-KRAPO

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No, that is me arguing that there WERE "little green men" in Crimea. But. what did they "DO" to annex it?

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Okay, I did say it wasn't Sarin.

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And it probably wasn't, for those bodies.

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The "Russian invasion of Ukraine" never happened, not even in Crimea.
Assad probably did not "gas his own people".

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Nederland - The Joint Investigation Team (JIT) is convinced of having obtained irrefutable evidence to establish that on 17 July 2014, flight MH-17 was shot down by a BUK missile from the 9M38-series. According to the JIT there is also evidence identifying the launch location that involves an agricultural field near Pervomaiskyi which, at the time, was controlled by pro-Russian fighters.

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No, that is me arguing that there WERE "little green men" in Crimea. But. what did they "DO" to annex it? - SIGNY
Putin has already admitted the military operation to take Crimea, he's even handed out medals to the Russian troops who took part... - KRAPO

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Okay, I did say it wasn't Sarin. - SIGNY
Good.- KRAPO
And it probably wasn't, for those bodies.- SIGNY
And I almost respected you there a little, for a minute.- KRAPO

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