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Originally posted by SergeantX:
What do you all think of the new law in Massachusetts requiring everyone to buy health insurance?

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Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Why not just have a public system then and be done with it...

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Originally posted by rue:
SergeantX

"How about we just quit trying to tell each other what to do?"

I suggest this - up and up socialized medicine. A certain percentage of your tax will go for your cut of 'free' care. If you opt out, you don't get to enjoy the benefits. It's pay as you go for everything from the trivial to the financially devastating. And you don't get government aid like food stamps if medical costs make you poor.

Would that satisfy you?

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Originally posted by rue:
SergeantX

"How about we just quit trying to tell each other what to do?"

I suggest this - up and up socialized medicine. A certain percentage of your tax will go for your cut of 'free' care. If you opt out, you don't get to enjoy the benefits. It's pay as you go for everything from the trivial to the financially devastating. And you don't get government aid like food stamps if medical costs make you poor.

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Originally posted by Fletch2:
I also find it interesting that folks that cry foul over forced motor insurance and socialised healthcare dont think twice about dropping a few trillion on defence spending. Defence is the ultimate form of "insurance" if things go well you would never use it and it would be an appauling waste of money. The point is that when you do need it is when you are glad you paid the "premium." In any case we all pay for it. We are not given the option to opt out and not pay it. The day that I see folks the same folks who argue against healthcare campaigning to opt out of paying for the Pentagon is the day I take tehm seriously. Until then it's "I dont want the government telling me how to spend my money --- unless it's something I want, at which point I'm ok with it."

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The carrot is lower rates for the poor

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Personally I would prefer that saving your hide didnt involve dipping into my pocket.

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Originally posted by Fletch2:
...The terrible irony of my poor friend was that she got sick, was unable to work lost her job and with it her insurance. She had incidents that put her into a coma twice, and on both occasions got fairly expensive emergency care, but not having insurance once she was no longer in immediate risk she was left to fend for herself. This resulted in more expensive emergency hospitalisation and finally cost her life.

Had the medical folks kept treating her after the very first incident there is a chance that the later ones couyld have been avoided and she would still be alive. As it is tax payers ended up picking up a bill for not saving her....

Tell me how that makes sense?

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Originally posted by rue:
But that kind of savings isn't found is free-market medicine, it's found in socialized medicine.

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Originally posted by rue:
You seem to think that bad medicine only came about after govt regulation and industry monopolization.

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No, but that is where the insanely overpriced medicine came from.

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There are countless ways patients could assure quality service from doctors without resorting to anti-competitive regulation.

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The problem with the alternatives (I'm assuming you'd consider it a problem) is that people would be free to make their own judgements on the nature of the quality vs. risk calculation.

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"Humans have overpopulated the Earth and in the process have created an ideal nutritional substrate on which bacteria and viruses (microbes) will grow and prosper. We are behaving like bacteria growing on an agar plate, flourishing until natural limits are reached or until another microbe colonizes and takes over. I am convinced that the world WOULD clearly be much better off without so many of us. The ancient Chinese curse 'may you live in interesting times' comes to mind -- we are living in one of the most interesting times humans have ever experienced."
-Prof Eric R. Pianka
http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/%7Evaranus/Everybody.html

"He's a radical thinker, that one! I mean, he's basically advocating for the death of all but 10% of the current population! And at the risk of sounding just as radical, I think he's right. It's the harsh reality that many people alive right now should be dead. And even harsher to think that the world would be better off with them dead too."
-Serenity, associate cult member of Dr Pianka, "Dr. Death Gets FBI Visit - Media, colleagues continue to portray him as the innocent victim," April 6, 2006
www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2006/060406fbivisit.htm

Serenity Blog
http://brenmccnnll.blogspot.com/2006/03/dr.html

VIDEO DOWNLOAD: NBC News - UT Genocide Scientist Backpedals on News Report
http://infowars.com/video/clips/news/science/040406_ut_genocide_scient
ist.htm
www.kxan.com/Global/story.asp?S=4720390

US professor wants genocide of 5.5-billion humans by bioterrorism - Fellow professors and scientists applause and roar approval at elite's twisted and genocidal population control agenda
www.infowars.com/articles/commentary/emails_pianka_response_biologist.
htm

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US patents on HIV/AIDS mycoplasma and Congressional Report ordering
invention of HIV/AIDS:
www.aidsbiowar.com
www.boydgraves.com
www.gulfwarvets.com
www.geocities.com/gulwarnationalguard

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"The most stunning statistic, however, is that the total number of deaths caused by conventional medicine is an astounding 783,936 per year. Using Leape's 1997 medical and drug error rate would add another 216,000 deaths, for a total of 999,936 deaths annually. It is now evident that the American medical system is the leading cause of death and injury in the US."
—Gary Null, PhD; Carolyn Dean MD, ND; Martin Feldman, MD; Debora Rasio, MD; Dorothy Smith, PhD, Life Extension Magazine, "Death by Medicine", March 2004 (plus 1.5-Million annual aborticides in USA)
www.lef.org/magazine/mag2004/mar2004_awsi_01.htm

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MARBURY v. MADISON, 5 U.S. 137 (1803)
5 U.S. 137 (Cranch)

This original and supreme will organizes the government, and assigns to different departments their respective powers. It may either stop here; or establish certain limits not to be transcended by those departments.

The government of the United States is of the latter description. The powers of the legislature are defined and limited; and that those limits may not be mistaken or forgotten, the constitution is written. To what purpose are powers limited, and to what purpose is that limitation committed to writing; if these limits may, at any time, be passed by those intended to be restrained? The distinction between a government with limited and unlimited powers is abolished, if those limits do not confine the persons on whom they are imposed, and if acts pro- [5 U.S. 137, 177] hibited and acts allowed are of equal obligation. It is a proposition too plain to be contested, that the constitution controls any legislative act repugnant to it; or, that the legislature may alter the constitution by an ordinary act.

Between these alternatives there is no middle ground. The constitution is either a superior, paramount law, unchangeable by ordinary means, or it is on a level with ordinary legislative acts, and like other acts, is alterable when the legislature shall please to alter it.

If the former part of the alternative be true, then a legislative act contrary to the constitution is not law: if the latter part be true, then written constitutions are absurd attempts, on the part of the people, to limit a power in its own nature illimitable.

Certainly all those who have framed written constitutions contemplate them as forming the fundamental and paramount law of the nation, and consequently the theory of every such government must be, that an act of the legislature repugnant to the constitution is void.

This theory is essentially attached to a written constitution, and is consequently to be considered by this court as one of the fundamental principles of our society.

Why does a judge swear to discharge his duties agreeably to the constitution of the United States, if that constitution forms no rule for his government? if it is closed upon him and cannot be inspected by him.

If such be the real state of things, this is worse than solemn mockery. To prescribe, or to take this oath, becomes equally a crime.

It is also not entirely unworthy of observation, that in declaring what shall be the supreme law of the land, the constitution itself is first mentioned; and not the laws of the United States generally, but those only which shall be made in pursuance of the constitution, have that rank.

Thus, the particular phraseology of the constitution of the United States confirms and strengthens the principle, supposed to be essential to all written constitutions, that a law repugnant to the constitution is void, and that courts, as well as other departments, are bound by that instrument.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=case&court=us&v
ol=5&page=137

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Queen Elizabeth aka Queen of Babylon at Bohemian Grove and King/Prince Philip of 55-nation British Commonwealth Empire that's merging with USA via NAFTA/SHAFTA

"In the event that I am reincarnated I would like to return as a deadly virus in order to contribute something to solve overpopulation."
—His Royal Highness Prince Philip, King of USA via NAFTA, husband of German Queen Elizabeth Sax CoBurg Gotha of England, father-in-law who murdered Princess Diana, from autobiography, head of Porton Down bioweapons lab that rountinely genocides British citizens and livestock, "Down to Earth: Speeches and Writings of His Royal Highness Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, on the Relationship of Man With His Environment", in chapter titled, "His Royal Virus"
www.amazon.com

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THE GEORGIA GUIDESTONES

On one of the highest hilltops in Elbert County, Georgia stands a huge granite monument. Engraved in eight different languages on the four giant stones that support the common capstone are 10 Guides, or commandments. That monument is alternately referred to as The Georgia Guidestones, or the American Stonehenge. Though relatively unknown to most people, it is an important link to the Occult Hierarchy that dominates the world in which we live.


Genocide program written in Hebrew

The origin of that strange monument is shrouded in mystery because no one knows the true identity of the man, or men, who commissioned its construction. All that is known for certain is that in June 1979, a well-dressed, articulate stranger visited the office of the Elberton Granite Finishing Company and announced that he wanted to build an edifice to transmit a message to mankind. He identified himself as R. C. Christian, but it soon became apparent that was not his real name.

The messages engraved on the Georgia Guidestones deal with four major fields:

(1) Governance and the establishment of a world government (overthrow of USA)
(2) Population and reproduction control (genocide of USA)
(3) The environment and man's relationship to nature, and (declaring US land off-limits to humans)
(4) Spirituality (occult world religion).

1. "Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature."

Limiting the population of the earth to 500 million will require the extermination of nine-tenths of the world's people.

"Since the site was unveiled to the public in a ceremony attended by more than 400 people in 1980, it has been the object of both wonder and controversy. Local ministers denounced it as satanic. Wiccans have traveled from near and far to hold pagan ceremonies."
http://www.southwrite.com/articles/stones.htm

Georgia Rosicrucian Guidestones
(Luciferian Jewish Masonic Mafia)
www.rrcg.org

Modern Stonehenges all over USA for Satanic human sacrifice rituals today:
http://web.umr.edu/~stonehen/answers/text2.html

Bohemian Grove human sacrifice cult of Bush Crime Family:
www.infowars.com/bg1.html


"Bohemian Grove Is The Most Faggy Goddamned Thing You Could Ever Imagine" - Richard Nixon
www.rotten.com/library/conspiracy/bohemian-grove/

"Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor. And advanced forms of biological warfare that can 'target' specific genotypes may transform biological warfare from the realm of terror to a politically useful tool."
-Rabbi Dov Zakheim, Sir Donald Rumsfeld Jewish Knight of the British Empire, Jew Dick Cheney, Jew JEB Bush, Jew Richard "Prince of Darkness" Pearl, Sir Paul Wolfowitz Jewish Knight of the British Empire (all members or guests of Jewish human sacrifice cult at Bohemian Grove), Project for the New American Century Corporation, "Rebuilding America's Defenses", Sept 2000
http://newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf

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The Massachusetts legislature approved a bill Tuesday that would require all residents to purchase health insurance or face legal penalties. Gov. Mitt Romney (R) supports the proposal, which would require all uninsured adults in the state to purchase some kind of insurance policy by July 1, 2007, or face a fine. All residents will have to provide details about their health insurance policy on their state income tax returns in 2008. Those who do not have insurance would first lose their personal state tax exemption, perhaps worth $150, and later face penalties equal to half the cost of the cheapest policy they should have bought. That might work out to $1,200 per year, officials said. Those who cannot find an affordable plan could obtain a WAIVER.
www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/04/AR20060404019
37.html

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Select to view spoiler:

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Learning to sew up a torn jacket: $40.
Learning to sew up a torn arm: $750,000.
The look on the insurance company's face when they pass that Massachusetts Compulsory Insurance law nationwide: priceless.

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Health insurance MAY be mandatory in Mass

Plan would offer free or subsidized coverage to those who cannot afford it

April 4, 2006

The measure does not call for new taxes but would require businesses that do not offer insurance to pay a $295 annual fee per employee.

The cost was put at $316 million in the first year, and more than $1 billion by the third year.

The House approved the bill on a 154-2 vote. The Senate endorsed it 37-0.

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12156882/

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Originally posted by Fletch2:

PN, if you are a business employing 10 or more people you are expected to provide some kind of health cover. If you dont you get fined $295 per uninsured worker. The worker doesnt pay $295 in additional taxes.

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Originally posted by rue:
Fletch2 -

Mandatory private health insurance - that follows the current p/c insistence on spending tax money on privatized services, just like the wildly effective and efficient Medicare drug policy - ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ....

It would be unthinkable to just set up the damned clinics and be done with it.

Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

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It's a question. How many uninsured are you willing to kill for ideological purity?

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Originally posted by Fletch2:
PN "Annual fees" mean once a year..... and it's a fine, if you pass on a labor fine to an employee you go to jail, it's called false accounting.

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Originally posted by rue:

PN,

For example - within months of the discovery of penicillin, resistant bacteria were found. Within a few years Fleming was warning of resistant bacteria being common. But stockyard people found animals grew fatter with antibiotics. Doctors were only too happy to prescribe the wonder drugs to demanding patients. And pharm companies were happy to make and sell as much as they could. No where in this system was there a place for sound regulatory rules. In fact, decades later with a runaway resistance problem there still are no rules. While the CDC and other agencies recommend withholding antibiotics for all but proven use, you will still find doctors able to routinely write prescriptions 'just in case'.

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Originally posted by rue:

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It's a question. How many uninsured are you willing to kill for ideological purity?

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Fletch2

Well, somebody's gotta be first even if it's not Mass.

It doesn't prevent me from standing on the sidelines, pointing my finger and laughing at Mass for being too chicken-sh*t to do what's necessary.


Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

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or an asteroid taking out New Jersey (though that isn't so terrible)

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Originally posted by rue:
I realize I'm arguing against a powerful ideology...

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