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Originally posted by Traveler:
The universe is made of particles which we call mass and sometimes with enough effort we have energy. You know, light, gravity, heat, etc.

Now will someone tell me where all this mass, that is bouncing, around came from.

I've heard of the big bang. But what went bang?

Did someone put their car in reverse by mistake and hit the person behind them? BANG!

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Is he both able and willing? Whence then is evil?
Because man was created for the opportunity to be in a free-willed relationship with God. Without free will, love is nothing. Without choice of good and evil, free will is nothing. God lets evil exist for free will's sake.

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Regardless, it begs the question, if it's so obvious that god isn't real, why do so many people believe? Is it hardwired into the human mind?

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I think the question is "What" made this world.

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Regardless, it begs the question, if it's so obvious that god isn't real, why do so many people believe? Is it hardwired into the human mind? Are they all just sheep?

Should those of us who think we see a deeper truth try to wake up the great mass of the deluded? Do we have any business, or any right to do that? Or should we leave them in their reverie, contented with their myths and happy bedtime stories?

Frankly, I'm not sure. People generally don't like to hear that their most cherished beliefs are hogwash. They certainly don't want to see themselves as suckers.

And here's the bigger question. Do the vast majority of human being need to believe to stay sane? It certainly seems like a possibility. So what if we do manage to convince everyone that god is just a myth, and they all go crazy?

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how it took millions of years of geological change and evolution to get things juuuuust right to create us,

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Originally posted by SergeantX:

So what if we do manage to convince everyone that god is just a myth, and they all go crazy? Hmmm... I

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Originally posted by Whimsicalnbrainpan:
S'ok CHRISISALL. I was just hoping for some lively debate.

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Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
Magdelena

I would ask you to marry me. Except for the whole YOU ARE A GIRL thing.

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Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
Magdelena

I would ask you to marry me. Except for the whole YOU ARE A GIRL thing.

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So?

Embrace your inner Willow Chrisisall

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Originally posted by Whimsicalnbrainpan:
Sorry if something I said offended you,

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Originally posted by chrisisall:
It was on one of the shows. Required viewing for my High School.

One-time Monty Python addict Chrisisall

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Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:


Required viewing for your high school or required viewing to SURVIVE your high school?

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Originally posted by Cruithne3753:
Here's the proof there is no God:-
[url] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Carroll_%28lottery_winner%29

Now why is my luck never in?

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Originally posted by citizen:

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Originally posted by Traveler:
The universe is made of particles which we call mass and sometimes with enough effort we have energy. You know, light, gravity, heat, etc.

Now will someone tell me where all this mass, that is bouncing, around came from.

I've heard of the big bang. But what went bang?

Did someone put their car in reverse by mistake and hit the person behind them? BANG!

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Our universe collapsed into a point of singularity, although the 'Big Crunch' took Billions of years to play out the final collapse took billionths of a second and the resulting singularity was unstable, causing it to explode, creating the big bang that started our universe.

There is no beginning there is no end, there is no first time through the loop of creation/destruction and there is no last time through. This is both the first iteration and the nth iteration through the loop.

If this sounds strange it is. We live in a universe of physics, causality and linear time but these are emergent properties of our universe, at the point of singularity our universe does not exist, neither does it’s emergent property of time, so the end and the beginning of our physical universe could exist at the same point.




I don't think it sounds strange at all Citizen.
Time is part of existance. So before and after existance there is no time. Therefore there is no beginning or end.

Actually I sort of suspected it. I mean, it would be rather foolish of us to think we are in the only universe to exist.

Thank You;
Traveler

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Cruithne3753:
Here's the proof there is no God:-
[url] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Carroll_%28lottery_winner%29

Now why is my luck never in?

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Originally posted by Geekmafia:

The whole "I don't believe in god and am therefore smarter than you" thing among some atheists has always struck me as quite pretentious, it's bit like saying i'm right and you can never prove me wrong.

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Originally posted by misbehaven:
"The whole 'I believe in God, and am therefore smarter than you' thing among some Christians has always struck me as pretentious, it's a bit like saying I'm right and you can never prove me wrong." Also, it's a good deal more prevalent. And Atheists back up their claims with scientific facts, not blind faith.

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Originally posted by misbehaven:

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Originally posted by Geekmafia:

The whole "I don't believe in god and am therefore smarter than you" thing among some atheists has always struck me as quite pretentious, it's bit like saying i'm right and you can never prove me wrong.

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As an Atheist, I feel compelled to point out that there's a flip side to that coin: "The whole 'I believe in God, and am therefore smarter than you' thing among some Christians has always struck me as pretentious, it's a bit like saying I'm right and you can never prove me wrong." Also, it's a good deal more prevalent. And Atheists back up their claims with scientific facts, not blind faith.

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And you just lend credence to the quoted poster's point. "Atheists back up their claims with scientific facts, not blind faith." That right there is an I'm-smarter-than-you-so-there comment.

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Then you go on to say that the Christian attitude is more prevalent but in the next paragraph say that Christianity is a minor world religion.

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I will tell you, from personal experience, I face a lot of derision once people learn that I am a Christian. When it came up in conversation with one particular friend, she told me not only that she was "Disappointed because she thought I was an intelligent person," but also that she lost respect for me. Fact of the matter is that many people view faith (especially Christianity) as a personal crutch for the weak-minded. People couldn't possibly be intelligent, well-spoken, well-read or followers of science and still be a Christian.

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Originally posted by misbehaven:
Originally posted by RugBug:

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And you just lend credence to the quoted poster's point. "Atheists back up their claims with scientific facts, not blind faith." That right there is an I'm-smarter-than-you-so-there comment.

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I'm not saying that I'm smarter, but that what I believe is grounded in scientific fact. It's not an article of faith, which by it's very nature is not a fact.

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Originally posted by misbehaven:
A couple of points. Christianity is a missionary religion, thus their attitude is more dominiant as they are continuously seeking converts.

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Originally posted by misbehaven:
Secondly, I meant this attitude is more prevalent in the United States where the overwhelming majority of the population is Christian; consequently, it is more dominant, visible, noticeable etc.

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The problem is that the assertion that Atheism is based in scientific fact implies that you are more logical and thus "smarter." Also, I have a problem with the statement that Atheism is grounded in scientific fact. The belief that there is no God cannot be proven through science anymore than the belief that there is a God.

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I do think it is interesting that I, as a Christian, feel I am in the minority and you, as an Atheist, feel that the Christian mindset is more prevalent.

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Originally posted by misbehaven:
Each possible religion including Christianity, is but one ticket in a lottery with infinitely many tickets. Each bet has an equal chance of being best: i.e., an infinitesimal chance.

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Originally posted by misbehaven:
[B And Atheists back up their claims with scientific facts, not blind faith.

B]

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My Dad, no philosopher he, says that you can't win the lottery if you don't play. Your well stated argument leaves only one sure loser...those who choose not to play.

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And you can cite all the facts and figures you want. I have absolute definitive and legal proof that God exists. Its eyewitness testimony...my own, other people. And being a lawyer we always like to cite the busload of nuns witnessing something as the perfect unimpeachable eyewitnesses...

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state these facts please.

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Originally posted by misbehaven:
[B And Atheists back up their claims with scientific facts, not blind faith.

B]

state these facts please.

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Originally posted by RugBug:
The problem is that the assertion that Atheism is based in scientific fact implies that you are more logical and thus "smarter."

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