American History: The last 16 years in two short sentences. by 6ixStringJack

Clinton made a mess on her blue dress.

Bush gave us all a facial.

Discuss.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Monday, November 12, 2007 3:42 AM

JONGSSTRAW

Pretty hard to respond to you when you frame the comparison as you have....
Clinton : great President, who made one little mistake
Bush : terrible President who has destroyed, or nearly destroyed America

Here's my take on them....

Clinton...smart man, careful calculating politician....America did very well under his Administration....good carefree times for all of us....a bit weak in National Security by closing down military bases and not going after Bin Laden
after numerous terrorist attacks against Americans. Left office somewhat disgraced, but the country was strong and sound and respected.

Bush...not a smart man....very poor choice of advisors and Cabinet picks....did not get Bin Laden after 911...did not wipe out Taliban after 911....made ( or Cheney/Rumsfeld made ) a disasterous decision to invade Iraq...whether the WMD evidence was real or fabricated, still would have been a bad decision. I think Bush meant to do the right thing; it's just that obviously no one around him knew what or how to do anything right. Further alienated world allies, and American Democrats with stubborn obsessions that have all blown up in his face....little left for him to do now other than just go away.

Next President has a lot to do..... We need someone who will re-unite America somehow...get out of Iraq now, and work with the other side of the aisle to get our country strong & respected again. Partisan politics as usual after the next election will not help anything. The extremists on both sides need to become more tolerant and moderate.

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Monday, November 12, 2007 4:23 AM

Hehe....

I think you mistake my comedy for a love of Demoncrats and Clinton. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I think he was a man who sold out our country behind our backs and balanced a lot of plates and they all came crashing down when he handed them over to clumsy Bush. Regardless of popular opinion, I don't think Bush is a stupid man at all. I'm scared as hell of Rudy though because he is everything that Bush was plus he has about 30 IQ points on Bush and a lot of foreign interests as well.

Honestly love your reply Jongstraw. Can't say I disagree with a single word of it, other than the level of intelligence Bush brought to the table.

You probably don't agree with me, but I think a vote for Ron Paul is in order. He sure as hell has a lot more support than Hannity would have us believe.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Monday, November 12, 2007 5:28 AM

JONGSSTRAW

I'd be curious and appreciative if you elaborated on how you feel Clinton sold out our country.

Also, if Ron Paul can get the Republican nomination I will vote for him.

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Monday, November 12, 2007 5:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

Also, if Ron Paul can get the Republican nomination I will vote for him.

Damn Jong- I'm agreeing with you all around here.

And I'd vote for Paul too Chrisisall

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Monday, November 12, 2007 6:19 AM

JONGSSTRAW

Maybe Chris I'm just worn out & tired of all the partisan hatred that took over my objectivity for the last few years. I see things differently now, and can no longer brush aside the endless screw-ups of this administration. Time for a healer, a uniter, a Moderate to get us back on track...otherwise it'll be another 4-8 years of further decline of America's greatness.

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Monday, November 12, 2007 6:24 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Clinton, slick tho he was.. was still a creep, NAFTA, CAFTA, and all around SHAFTA to our trade, putting our necks on the chopping block for the chinese, while turning a bit of a blind eye to various technological espionage on their behalf - not talkin nuclear, but more trade secret kinda stuff they coulda bought or licensed, but didn't wanna pay for.

He wasn't really much better than our current crop of slime, he was just slicker, is all.

One for you Six... guy down the street has a homemade bumper sticker on the back of his rusty ole F-150, which showed up right after they installed the shrub...

we're all wearing the blue dress now.

Presidential elections are a bit like replacing a lightbulb, the product never changes, only the wattage, and they're all screwed in, yanno.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Monday, November 12, 2007 6:36 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

IMHO both politicos were beholden to special interests. Clinton to international banks, media and international "free" trade, Cheney (and Bush) to oil and military-industrial. One of the differences: the Fed didn't give Clinton an break like the Fed is doing for Bush (unwisely, I might add). Altho Clinton sold us down the river (not only with NAFTA/ CAFTA but also with DMCA) he made the cage a little more comfortable for us.

I can't imagine a Pres being elected who isn't beholden to one big financial interest or another. If anyone even gets close, they'll either get screwed under (like Perot) or outright killed.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Monday, November 12, 2007 6:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I'd be curious and appreciative if you elaborated on how you feel Clinton sold out our country.

Also, if Ron Paul can get the Republican nomination I will vote for him.

I will give you a great explanation later Jongstraw, but I need to get to bed. Frem glossed over a few points in his post and though I can't argue that our economy was so great that it gave kids my age at the time the illusion that money grew on trees, I know better now that it was an illusion that had been initiated then and we're just now feeling the ramifications of. Mucho Dinero in a Chinese bank (and dare I say a Chinese sub popping up within torpedo range of an American Aircraft Carrier) today is his legacy.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_
article_id=492804&in_page_id=1811

Clinton was no better than his ascender and I really have no reason to believe anybody who's held the title in the past was any better, for that matter, since I don't believe anything I've ever read in a history book.

I never thought I'd like a politician before, and Ron Paul may confirm my previous beliefs. He hasn't yet and for the first time, I'm pretty damned excited about how the future may unfold for Americans.

Hey Frem..... can you find a way of getting a few of those bumper stikers my way?

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Monday, November 12, 2007 6:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
I can't imagine a Pres being elected who isn't beholden to one big financial interest or another. If anyone even gets close, they'll either get screwed under (like Perot) or outright killed.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

Sadly... I couldn't find a better way to sum up the current state of affairs any better.

Ron Paul is a very brave man. If he were elected, I don't think he would last a term before having a "heart attack" or some other "accident". He's pretty old and the sheep would buy it in a second. No need for gurrilla warfare to take him down.

I just hope that his legacy lives on. There is a large movement stealthely gaining a lot of ground now and I hope that we never forget no matter what happens....

I know Frem knows what I mean when I say that Ron Paul is Harrison Bergeron.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Monday, November 12, 2007 6:55 AM

Guys---is this a thread with no disagreements?
I'd not thought that possible

Chrisisall

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Monday, November 12, 2007 8:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I know Frem knows what I mean when I say that Ron Paul is Harrison Bergeron.

Hey, I know what that means. And sadly, I agree.

Did you see the movie? They made a good film adaptation starring Sean Astin as Harrison Bergeron. I think it was for TV cable.

Here are my two sentences for the last 16 years:

1. If they are corrupt enough to get in power, they will screw the country for somebody.
2. Vote for Ron Paul, even if he doesn't get the nomination--cause wouldn't it be something if an independent candidate wins the popular vote despite the corrupt machinery in place to present only sold-out candidates for vote?

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

Aude sapere (Dare to know). -- Samuel Hahnemann, M.D.

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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 3:55 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Clinton made a mess on her blue dress.

Bush gave us all a facial.

Discuss.

Kind of ignores the two most important events of the last sixteen years. The Information Revolution and the creation of Firefly...

H

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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 3:58 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
Here are my two sentences for the last 16 years:

1. If they are corrupt enough to get in power, they will screw the country for somebody.
2. Vote for Ron Paul, even if he doesn't get the nomination--cause wouldn't it be something if an independent candidate wins the popular vote despite the corrupt machinery in place to present only sold-out candidates for vote?

Wait, assuming point "1." is true, then if Ron Paul does win...you must assume he is corrupt and will screw up the country.

Wow, sucks to be you (or at least your candidate).

Really the only way you can win is not to vote. Oddly, Ron Paul's numbers will not be affected if you choose that option.

H

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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 5:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
then if Ron Paul does win...you must assume he is corrupt and will screw up the country.

Yep.

Quote:
Wow, sucks to be you (or at least your candidate).

Well, no. Just because I think he is corrupt, doesn't mean he is. Besides, Ron Paul is honest and won't win. He's Harrison Bergeron.

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

Aude sapere (Dare to know). -- Samuel Hahnemann, M.D.

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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 5:12 AM

What's the point of voting? If you already set the condition that the act of being elected make someone a crook, then you might as well just give up.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 5:29 AM

SERGEANTX

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Kind of ignores the two most important events of the last sixteen years. The Information Revolution and the creation of Firefly...

Chris is agreeing with Jong. I'm agreeing with Hero...

Something's not right. Somebody, quick, say something to piss me off!

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 5:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
What's the point of voting? If you already set the condition that the act of being elected make someone a crook, then you might as well just give up.

I vote because I want to voice my support for who I WANT to win. I know he or she won't win, but I think it is important to take a stand for the ideal, even if it never becomes reality.

Besides, if enough of us do it, then one day, we might be able to expose what a sham and an illusion our corrupt system is. For example, if Ron Paul somehow miraculously wins the popular vote as an independent, but the electoral college system somehow ends up with a Dem or Rep candidate, we'll have the will of the people vs. a rigged two-party system staring us in the face. The myth that "anyone with the most votes" can become president becomes exposed. I'll line up for that show.

Hey, just my opinion.

Can't Take My Gorram Sky
Aude sapere (Dare to know). -- Samuel Hahnemann, M.D.

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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 5:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
What's the point of voting? If you already set the condition that the act of being elected make someone a crook, then you might as well just give up.
I vote because I want to voice my support for who I WANT to win. I know he or she won't win, but I think it is important to take a stand for the ideal, even if it never becomes reality.

Take a stand for what?!! As soon as whoever you’re taking a stand for gets elected - he’s a crook, by the very fact that he got elected. Seems pretty pointless to me. You might as well just go be a hermit with Stringfellow and Grizzly Adams.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 5:50 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
What's the point of voting? If you already set the condition that the act of being elected make someone a crook, then you might as well just give up.
I vote because I want to voice my support for who I WANT to win. I know he or she won't win, but I think it is important to take a stand for the ideal, even if it never becomes reality.
Take a stand for what?!! As soon as whoever you’re taking a stand for gets elected - he’s a crook, by the very fact that he got elected. Seems pretty pointless to me. You might as well just go be a hermit with Stringfellow and Grizzly Adams.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

Yes, you're right. Better to just do as we're told, and not even try to make an impact.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 5:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Yes, you're right. Better to just do as we're told, and not even try to make an impact.

What impact?!! You can’t tell me that you’re interested in making any kind of positive impact if you’ve already decided any impact you might make is negative. So what’s the point?

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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 5:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:

Chris is agreeing with Jong. I'm agreeing with Hero...

Something's not right. Somebody, quick, say something to piss me off!

Sarge...George Bush is your father!

NOOOooooooooChrisisall

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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 5:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
You might as well just go be a hermit with Stringfellow

Give me the first Airwolf off the line for transportation and I'm there.

Hawkeisall

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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 6:04 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
You might as well just go be a hermit with Stringfellow
Give me the first Airwolf off the line for transportation and I'm there.

Okay, but as a condition I get to investigate how you can afford a resort cabin on a lake in Arizona on a fugitive’s salary.

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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 6:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Okay, but as a condition I get to investigate how you can afford a resort cabin on a lake in Arizona on a fugitive’s salary.

Naww, I changed my mind on the whole thing; I'd probably jus' start drinkin' too much...

*hic*Chrisisall

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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 7:13 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Take a stand for what?!! As soon as whoever you’re taking a stand for gets elected

First of all, Finn, there is no need to be snarky.

I'll say it again slowly.

Take a stand for the IDEAL. MY ideal. And as I said, my ideal is someone who is NOT going to get elected. That is right, I vote purposely and only for someone that I believe cannot possibly get into office.

If he DOES get elected (not just win the popular vote, but actually gets elected), I would seriously suspect that I made a mistake in judgment about this person.

Your comments are based on the premise that the only reason to vote is to elect. My votes are not to elect, but to make a statement, a poetic expression if you will.

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

Aude sapere (Dare to know). -- Samuel Hahnemann, M.D.

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Sunday, November 18, 2007 5:57 PM