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Whoever transmits in interstate or foreign commerce any communication, with the intent to coerce, intimidate, harass, or cause substantial emotional distress to a person, using electronic means to support severe, repeated, and hostile behavior, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both....

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Originally posted by canttakesky:
If this act passes, most RWED'ers could become felons. Can you imagine? A good portion of RWED is substantial emotional distress and severe, repeated hostile behavior.

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Originally posted by Malachite:
Hmmm... How are they going to enforce this?

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Funny, that.

I am actually hostile to the Christian Belief System, despite many of my allies being Christian and one of my staunchest and most reliable moral advisors being a former nun.

But that's the thing, it's the *systems* I don't like - individualised religion I have found to be a positive force on peoples behavior, one of the rare instances where actual experience has trumped all logic to the contrary.

I am a Universalist Unitarian from a Humanist perspective, mind you, and as a UU Lay Priest, there's room for everyone, right ?


As for instilling values, you don't have to be a parent to connect with the younger generation, a couple local high school kids got to talkin to me while I was waiting to pick up a friends kid cause they had car trouble, and this evolved into what we call the Socrates Club, where we discuss issues or I even teach stuff (mostly history), and on many occasions we discuss tricky moral stuff that kids of that age mostly will not discuss with adults cause they don't trust em enough to do anything but parrot the socially acceptable challenge-response.

That's actually had a very positive effect educationally too, said history teacher hung around after school to sit in and see if he could figure out why stuff "stuck" when I told em, and didn't in his class - a lot of the problem was his boring delivery, so he's taken to borrowing period props and stuff to try and add a more visual component to the usual curriculum, and between us personally he's more than a bit frustrated with teaching a curriculum which is somewhat distorted, but he cannot risk his job, and all.

One of the other very positive effects was one of the kids who's got one hell of an aptitude as an appliance repairman, I loaned him some books and tools and he managed to repair his mothers washing machine, to her surprised delight, and I fronted his entrance application fee for a local tech school cause he's absolutely GOT what it takes.

And while I might not be the best role model, surely it's better than the sociopaths society holds up as heros to emulate, while casting scorn and derision upon moral, tolerant and merciful folk.

I also disagree with the law as a check against bad impulses, cause it leads down a road that ends with us locked up in padded cubicles in between our service to Government/Corporation "for our own good", which isn't a viable end point in my opinion.

Hell, it wasn't all THAT long ago you could buy opium right over the counter as a toothache remedy, and damn cheap too - yet we didn't have such a problem with it then as we do now, the forbidden fruit aspect adds to it as well.
http://wings.buffalo.edu/aru/preprohibition.htm

I think addiction should be handled as a purely medical concern, myself, cause I fail to see how locking someone upon without treatment would have any net positive effect.

One reason, besides being an Anarchist, that I do not see Government or Law as a solution is because both of those things are made by the very fallible, sinful and imperfect humans they are used against, and all too often for selfish wicked reasons.

Also, laws are meant to protect people and their stuff, but over time you'll notice that somehow in the end they always wind up not only considered more important than those things, but are just as often twisted and distorted in direct opposition to the very things they were supposed to protect and still considered more important.

At which point, with me, they lose all validity, you see ?

What we got, what will work, is for us, all of us, to reach out to each other, embrace our humanity instead of isolating ourselves as this technological society has caused us to do, to smash the barriers of race, religion, income, and every other stupid thing that evil people use to divide us, instead of building them higher and wrapping them with barbed wire.

One life, spent well, can touch SO many others in a positive way that a tiny minority can be the very change they wish to be if they only act on it instead of waiting for some mythic figure to lead em - every time I hear folk say "someone should DO something!" - my first response is always "You're somebody."

As for where to find that guidance, it's inside us, our humanity, our empathy, our free will - what I call our human essence, what you call gods grace, and others call the ka, but no matter what you name it, it's in us, one and all, and through that voice lies our only road to the necessary social, emotional, and mental evolution required to finally not NEED Government or it's Laws, and leave the nest to finally take our place in the universe as sovereign individuals.

But first, we need to grow the wings - and all my life, I've worked on that.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Originally posted by citizen:
You smell and have stupid hair.

And I'm not subject to your laws, so there's nothing you can do about it :p

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Originally posted by Malachite:
Hmmm... How are they going to enforce this?

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Just one more case of how the road to hell gets paved.

You can NOT legislate away stupidity, malice, or a lack of common decency - in fact you cannot LEGALLY enforce any SOCIAL value, it just does not work and it's idiotic to even try.

Not that this, yanno, ever stops em, but they're using a screwdriver to do a hammers job here.

-F

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Originally posted by Geezer:

BTW, what happened to your "I only get insulting when I'm insulted" bullshit?

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What I evidently had missed was how much potential for good you see in humanity. Aren't you the same person who posted the link to the self-defense website that talked about being aware of your surroundings and the need to think like a perpetrator in order to anticipate situations where criminal activity could take place? If so, I am reminded of how Jesus told his followers to "Be as wise as serpents and as innocent as doves"...

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That being said, I am perhaps more pessimistic in my view of humanity in that I feel that even in ideal circumstances, there will always be those who choose to disagree with the ideology and even some who will go on to violate the rights of others. It is their free will, after all.

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I think you will have to have an established set of guidelines to know what those rights are

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but I agree that for some (possibly many?) there are more meaningful consequences that could actually work toward rehabilitating people.
Sorry, I'm not good with examples on this -- perhaps education and job skills training along with medical care, mental health treatment and substance abuse treatment?

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I also don't think that even if you could just put adults together and teach them critical thinking, they would come to the same conclusions about what is right and wrong. Heck, RWED has enough intelligent, critical thinkers who sometimes have vastly opposing viewpoints on what is right and wrong. I'm not sure it would be a good thing, even if you could do it, to create some atmosphere where they all have the same viewpoint...

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The problem is, most don't live in the ideal society you describe, so what do we do in the meantime? How do we create the society?

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What morals do we decide are good?

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So we are left with what you describe, merely doing our best to spread the light in the community we live in and beyond -- but that doesn't address those other members in the community who violate others' rights.

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And, I know I'm rambling here, but the same flaws that you mention with the legal system (laws are determined by imperfect, flawed people) would still apply to whatever idealistic society we would set up (that is, whoever sets up the ideals is likely just as flawed as the lawmakers because he is human).

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Originally posted by citizen:

What happened to your sense of humour?

Hmm, Geezer trolling, now there's something we see every day.

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I see that British wit is keeping you well embedded like a chigger under the skin of anyone here with an opposing view

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