A R-rated discussion of women's fashion... by chrisisall

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Actually, I'm more curious: Do most men have the same perception of high heels as Chris does, or is he just a deviant?

Do you mean women managing to dress in such a way as to make men think about sex? It's not that hard...

But I don't look down on women embracing their sensuality and their curves to feel empowered, and even older people can be sensual creatures.

Heads should roll

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Tuesday, June 9, 2009 8:19 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Mmm...okay, 'cause I think if women knew that they might not wear high heels so much.

SOME clothes (midriff tops showing a lot of cleavage) are an invitation and most women know that and wear it for that reason. But most women wear high heels to be generically "attractive", not to paint an OPEN SEASON sign on their butts.

----------------------
We should have strapped him into a glider, filled it nose heavy w/ explosives, and dropped his Allah lovin' ass into a large, empty field. After which, release wild boars into the area so they could make good use of his remains. Now THAT's justice.- rappy

Yeah, that's what Sheikh Issa said. Seems you both have a lot in common.- signy

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Tuesday, June 9, 2009 8:30 AM

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

To be honest it takes more than high heels to suggest 'open season'.

High heels and demure clothing would gain the advantages of being taller/longer legs/feeling attractive without making men think about sex, I think. Choose whatever look you personally want to go for - and then even deviant's ought to be able to control themselves.

Heads should roll

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Tuesday, June 9, 2009 8:37 AM

On a reassuring note, Signy, I think it's fair to say that the men who invented high-heels and bras hate women. So at least objectifying women was secondary to causing them pain.

Evolution to describe variable social behaviours... I dunno, kpo. I think that's stretching, no society or current social behavior represents a universal method of mate selection to trace back into pre-civilization.

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Tuesday, June 9, 2009 8:43 AM

AGENTROUKA

I thank the person who invented bras. Whether it was a man or a woman.

For some women, going without support can be downright painful, and it's certainly NO fun to run without a bra if you have breasts beyond a small size.

I NEVER got where that bra-hating notion came from.

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Tuesday, June 9, 2009 9:38 AM

Even if the bra is the right size and fits, it can still be uncomfortable and constraining, depending on the design or if there are flaws.

I've definitely seen bras that looked and felt like they were designed by someone who had never even SEEN a breast, let alone understood the anatomy or god forbid TESTED them on an actual woman.

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Tuesday, June 9, 2009 9:47 AM

AGENTROUKA

Yeah, but just because there are bad apples out there and not every woman wants/needs to wear them you shouldn't knock the entire concept as misogynistic.

Sure, the social pressure to wear bras sucks for those who don't want/need them, but it's up to the women concerned to change that by just not wearing them, instead of demonising the entire concept, thus creating another artificial divide of judgment between women.

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Tuesday, June 9, 2009 10:03 AM

CITIZEN

Well, if I were a bra designer, I can assure you I'd demand extensive testing.

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Tuesday, June 9, 2009 10:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
paint an OPEN SEASON sign on their butts.

Thanks for that questionable visual.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Tuesday, June 9, 2009 12:46 PM

Yeah... Actually I wear bras myself (not that it makes much difference... 9_9 @ self), I was just saying, you know, and making a joke.

There's nothing wrong with women who wear bras or heels, didn't mean to imply that. Just saying, if there were some sexualized subversive intent when high heels and bras were invented, then apparently no one complained too much, about that OR about the pain. And I suppose it also wouldn't be the first time that women have done painful things to themselves to look good. Like footbindings. Or, well I hear bodices don't HURT exactly, but I can't imagine squishing yourself up like that is very good for you.

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Tuesday, June 9, 2009 1:37 PM

We should just all run around naked, like in Tahiti of the past.
Pass the sunscreen.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Tuesday, June 9, 2009 2:29 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Or, well I hear bodices don't HURT exactly, but I can't imagine squishing yourself up like that is very good for you.

Oh indeed, corsets as a classic example.

History has some amusingly bizarre things done in the name of fashion, like the bustle...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bustle

Even Cracked mocks some of em.
http://www.cracked.com/article_16997_6-popular-fashion-trends-that-kil
led-people.html

As for Bras, I don't think it's a matter of them being designed by Marquis De Sade, although you prolly *could* make a case for some of em - as much as folk never quite realizing the fact that women are individual people and different from each other even if the breasts of one are ostensibly the same standard size as those of another.

As such, finding the RIGHT bra is a far more intricate process for some then just yanking the appropriate standard size off the rack - most men have not a clue of this, and it seems some women don't seem to neither - I have nieces, remember, and since I happen to be the only adult actually honest enough with em to be trusted, wind up as advisor on the things they are too shy or embarrassed to mention to no one else.

In all honesty most of the designs I've seen could seriously benefit from better engineering, especially those for the well endowed cause the support structure looks more like a torture device than anything else.

-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Tuesday, June 9, 2009 3:12 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Thanks for that questionable visual.

You're welcome. But ... I got that visual from... ahem... YOU!

Bras.... As a better-than-averagely-endowed female, I can tell you I appreciate them when playing tennis, or any other sport. Do you want another visual??? Nothing like bloody nipples to ruin a nice jog.

(Funny thing is, when you google marathon+ bloody, it HELPFULLY pops up with "nipples" not "feet" as you might expect!)
----------------------
We should have strapped him into a glider, filled it nose heavy w/ explosives, and dropped his Allah lovin' ass into a large, empty field. After which, release wild boars into the area so they could make good use of his remains. Now THAT's justice.- rappy

Yeah, that's what Sheikh Issa said. Seems you both have a lot in common.- signy

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Tuesday, June 9, 2009 3:19 PM

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
Evolution to describe variable social behaviours... I dunno, kpo. I think that's stretching, no society or current social behavior represents a universal method of mate selection to trace back into pre-civilization.

Not talking about behaviours, first of all, or methods - I'm talking about just one aspect of female psychology that influences the behaviour of mate selection. Women can choose a mate on many factors, like kindness and good potential for fatherhood. But even these women will still retain romantic/sexual fantasies, or at least be swayed by ones that are portrayed in fiction. 'Tall, dark and handsome' is a recurring, resonant theme in such fantasies I would say - as well as other things like strength, power, and money.

The tastes are there (very often, if not universally) - but they don't have to be over-riding. The question I guess, is are they an invention of society, projected onto women and warping their real romantic desires?

Hmm.

Heads should roll

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Tuesday, June 9, 2009 3:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
As a better-than-averagely-endowed female, I can tell you I appreciate them when playing tennis, or any other sport.

Are you trying to excite me, Signy?

My Wife is more than sufficient for that.

The boobiesisall Chrisisall

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Tuesday, June 9, 2009 3:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
The question I guess, is are they an invention of society, projected onto women and warping their real romantic desires?

The peeps you are referring to are beyond consideration as serious candidates for true love.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Tuesday, June 9, 2009 4:19 PM

Well, male and female ideas of beauty have changed through the ages, so that's one area at least that isn't constant and could be socially defined.

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Tuesday, June 9, 2009 4:22 PM

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Chris,

Women who see beauty in tall/strong/powerful men?

What about men who see beauty in soft, sweet, feminine women?

That's all I'm referring to.

Heads should roll

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Tuesday, June 9, 2009 4:43 PM

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Well, male and female ideas of beauty have changed through the ages, so that's one area at least that isn't constant and could be socially defined.

If you're talking about physical beauty, then I think we can agree to some extent that society can influence - size zero and all that.

Ideas of beauty/appeal within the male/female character are more tricky. Psychologists have said that 'women look for their fathers', in their mate selection - what do you think of this? I reckon maybe it explains an apparent female comfortableness with submissive roles in their adult relationships.

Heads should roll

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Tuesday, June 9, 2009 4:59 PM

I'm really not the person to ask that. Can't comment. You can try some of the other girls who actually have gone through some manner of mate selection process.

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Tuesday, June 9, 2009 11:00 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

strippers use the platforms, both ball and heel are elevated.
The strictly high HEEL version is intended to curl up the calf muscles, making the ankle and lower leg seem thinner, giving an extra curve to the calf. It's a slimming technique, which women use in many different ways.

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Wednesday, June 10, 2009 8:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
Psychologists have said that 'women look for their fathers', in their mate selection - what do you think of this?

Kinda depends on whether their Fathers were cool or not...

Quote:
I reckon maybe it explains an apparent female comfortableness with submissive roles in their adult relationships.

THAT'S a bit of a holdover from a different century mixed with lazyness.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, June 10, 2009 8:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
strippers use the platforms, both ball and heel are elevated.

I'd avoid such sweeping statements, JSF.
Strippers wear everything from extreme heels to bare feet- you obviously have very little real life experience in this matter, depending instead upon movie stereotypes.
At least, that's what my friend tells me...

The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, June 10, 2009 9:58 AM

Uh huh.

By the way, the lady on stage is waiting for you to shut your laptop and give her a fiver.

(

)

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Wednesday, June 10, 2009 10:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
fiver.

She says you're stingy.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, June 10, 2009 11:14 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"In all honesty most of the designs I've seen could seriously benefit from better engineering ..."

Front closure; shoulder straps that come to a Y in the back ...

PS - in my grandmother's day (great grandmother-era to most of the people here) a bra was sinful, something worn by women of loose morals. You needed to go without as god intended.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

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Wednesday, June 10, 2009 11:28 AM