REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Illegal for poor people to carry cash?

POSTED BY: CANTTAKESKY
UPDATED: Friday, March 25, 2011 18:09
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Monday, March 21, 2011 12:46 PM

CANTTAKESKY


http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/03/so_thats_what_they_mean_by_
the.php


Quote:

Minnesota is leading the way. Our Rethuglicans have figured out how to end poverty: by making it illegal to have money if you're poor? Wait, that makes no sense.

Minnesota Republicans are pushing legislation that would make it a crime for people on public assistance to have more $20 in cash in their pockets any given month.

Lest you think our most contemptible lawmakers have no heart at all, consider that this is the generous version of their earlier plan.

This represents a change from their initial proposal, which banned them from having any money at all.

I'm not sure what they're thinking. If they're so poor, the only way they could have any money is if they stole it from a rich guy? Or something? Maybe they're just setting up a perfect Catch 22: now the police can roust someone who looks poor, and if they've got no money, send them to jail for vagrancy; if they've got more than $20, arrest them for possession of illegal currency.

Some people don't believe me. Here's the link to the proposed legislation. They want to give all benefits via a debit card so they can restrict and monitor purchases. And if this is their sole source of income, that means they're only allowed a cash allowance of $20/month. Control, control, control.

Section 1. [256.9870] ELECTRONIC BENEFIT TRANSFER DEBIT CARD.
Subdivision 1. Electronic benefit transfer or EBT debit card. (a) Electronic benefit transfer (EBT) debit cardholders in the general assistance program and the Minnesota supplemental aid program under chapter 256D and programs under chapter 256J are prohibited from withdrawing cash from an automatic teller machine or receiving cash from vendors with the EBT debit card. The EBT debit card may only be used as a debit card.
(b) Beginning July 1, 2011, cash benefits for programs listed under paragraph (a) must be issued on a separate EBT card with the head of household's name printed on the card. The card must also state that "It is unlawful to use this card to purchase tobacco products or alcoholic beverages." This card must be issued within 30 calendar days of an eligibility determination. During the initial 30 calendar days of eligibility, a recipient may have cash benefits issued on an EBT card without the recipient's name printed on the card. This card may be the same card on which food support is issued and does not need to meet the requirements of this section.
(c) Notwithstanding paragraph (a), EBT cardholders may opt to have up to $20 per month accessible via automatic teller machine or receive up to $20 cash back from a vendor.



Here is more:
http://wonkette.com/440932/minnesota-republicans-to-outlaw-poor-people
-having-money


I understand (sort of..?) the intent, to keep cash benefits of people receiving public assistance from being spent on drugs and such. But as usual, lawmakers just bungle it with their deep-seated prejudices. Their assumptions about the targeted population shows through, no matter how they word it.



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Monday, March 21, 2011 12:50 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


That is just insane...and to me yet another example of how the Republicans, having focused on gaining power in states rather than federally, have gone overboard...WAY overboard...in their class warfare!

The article is hopelessly slanted, nonetheless, and even I found it a bit repulsive to read.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Monday, March 21, 2011 1:05 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


How are poor people supposed to buy their crack or meth?

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Monday, March 21, 2011 3:29 PM

CANTTAKESKY


So PN, do you think this is a testing ground for making cash illegal for the rest of us later on?




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Monday, March 21, 2011 4:55 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by canttakesky:
Minnesota Republicans are pushing legislation that would make it a crime for people on public assistance to have more $20 in cash in their pockets any given month.



Sigh. Not really. While this is undoubtedly an ill-conceived piece of legislation, it does not in the least make it illegal for poor people to carry more than $20.00 in cash. It'd just keep them from converting more than $20.00 of their public assistance per month to cash.

If folk want to attack this legislation, they should do so on the actual issues, instead of making up B.S. claims that anyone with a modicum of critical thinking could see are bogus.

Or maybe they're trying to appeal to folks who don't think, but just react.




"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Monday, March 21, 2011 7:09 PM

DREAMTROVE


This sort of thing is always intended to make the poor spend their public assistance on necessities, when really, they should be boltering the economy anyway. If you force them to buy food, they could easily buy stuff that they could trade for drugs anyway if that's what they're going to do. I suggested a few years ago a welfare credit card, that way you could measure the purchases. If someone buys an ipod, fine. If they buy 40 ipods, then they're selling them, probably to buy drugs. Underlying this is a real issue: Most of the people I've known on public assistance have used their welfare checks to buy drugs. Another way to deal with this of course is to lower the price of drugs ;)

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Tuesday, March 22, 2011 2:56 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
It'd just keep them from converting more than $20.00 of their public assistance per month to cash.

Just to be clear, I wasn't the author of misleading quotation.

The people I quoted were quoting from this original article:

http://www.fightbacknews.org/2011/3/15/minnesota-republicans-say-poor-
people-money-should-be-outlaws


Quote:

St. Paul, MN – Minnesota Republicans are pushing legislation that would make it a crime for people on public assistance to have more $20 in cash in their pockets any given month. This represents a change from their initial proposal, which banned them from having any money at all.

On March 15, Angel Buechner of the Welfare Rights Committee testified in front of the House Health and Human Services Reform Committee on House File 171. Buechner told committee members, “We would like to address the provision that makes it illegal for MFIP [one of Minnesota’s welfare programs] families to withdraw cash from the cash portion of the MFIP grant – and in fact, appears to make it illegal for MFIP families to have any type of money at all in their pockets. How do you expect people to take care of business like paying bills such as lights, gas, water, trash and phone?”

House File 171 would make it so that families on MFIP – and disabled single adults on General Assistance and Minnesota Supplemental Aid – could not have their cash grants in cash or put into a checking account. Rather, they could only use a state-issued debit card at special terminals in certain businesses that are set up to accept the card.



I am still investigating where they got the "illegal to carry cash" accusation from.

Regardless, limits on cash conversion DOES have implications on how much cash you can carry. If all your income comes from public assistance, and you're not allowed to convert more than $20 per month, then effectively, you're not allowed to to carry more than $20 per month. It is designed to make drug transactions difficult, but it also makes many other normal transactions difficult, like giving your kids lunch money and such.





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Tuesday, March 22, 2011 4:33 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Hard for me to believe that this sort of thing is some kind of priority for Republicans. And coming on the heels of the Wisconsin/Ohio/Michigan union debacle? Seems like just a few months ago Republicans were popular, elected in a landslide victory in the House, and took control of many state Governorships and Legislatures. So this is what they come up with? This is how they govern? What a pathetic waste of voters' support. What a disgusting path to undo all the political gains they made as fast as they can. The Republican Party is out of control, with no leadership and no message. The Party looks petty and vindictive now. If nothing changes, we're gonna get trounced in 2012.






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Tuesday, March 22, 2011 4:52 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
That is just insane...and to me yet another example of how the Republicans, having focused on gaining power in states rather than federally, have gone overboard...WAY overboard...in their class warfare!


You guys have this whole thing backwards. The law is not that illegal for the poor to carry cash...its illegal for them to carry MY cash.

I have no problem with them carrying their own money, just hand over the food stamps, cause they can't have it both ways.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I would rather not ignore your contributions." Niki2, 2010.

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Tuesday, March 22, 2011 6:49 AM

THEHAPPYTRADER


Quote:

I am still investigating where they got the "illegal to carry cash" accusation from.

Regardless, limits on cash conversion DOES have implications on how much cash you can carry. If all your income comes from public assistance, and you're not allowed to convert more than $20 per month, then effectively, you're not allowed to to carry more than $20 per month. It is designed to make drug transactions difficult, but it also makes many other normal transactions difficult, like giving your kids lunch money and such.



If they are getting public assistance their kids are getting free lunches at school. I'm with Geezer on this. I've know a few folks that have been on EBT cards and two of which are currently on them. They didn't need to use their cards for cash, the cards on their own were plenty enough. Now, they did have a habit of blowing the leftover fundage on large amounts of snacks, drinks, and other stuff they didn't really need right before the cards got refreshed, which seemed kinda wrong, but it wasn't illegal.

Quote:

St. Paul, MN – Minnesota Republicans are pushing legislation that would make it a crime for people on public assistance to have more $20 in cash in their pockets any given month. This represents a change from their initial proposal, which banned them from having any money at all.


Quote:

Section 1. [256.9870] ELECTRONIC BENEFIT TRANSFER DEBIT CARD.
Subdivision 1. Electronic benefit transfer or EBT debit card. (a) Electronic benefit transfer (EBT) debit cardholders in the general assistance program and the Minnesota supplemental aid program under chapter 256D and programs under chapter 256J are prohibited from withdrawing cash from an automatic teller machine or receiving cash from vendors with the EBT debit card. The EBT debit card may only be used as a debit card.
(b) Beginning July 1, 2011, cash benefits for programs listed under paragraph (a) must be issued on a separate EBT card with the head of household's name printed on the card. The card must also state that "It is unlawful to use this card to purchase tobacco products or alcoholic beverages." This card must be issued within 30 calendar days of an eligibility determination. During the initial 30 calendar days of eligibility, a recipient may have cash benefits issued on an EBT card without the recipient's name printed on the card. This card may be the same card on which food support is issued and does not need to meet the requirements of this section.
(c) Notwithstanding paragraph (a), EBT cardholders may opt to have up to $20 per month accessible via automatic teller machine or receive up to $20 cash back from a vendor.



Anyone else notice how these two statements don't quite match?

Not blaming you for jumping to conclusions CTS but your quoted article's conclusions are full of partisan garbage. IMO if you receive government money (as in public assistance and you did not earn it working), the government that gives it to you has a right to decide what you can't do with it. If you don't like it, you'll just have to earn your own money you can use however you please. I understand this isn't always easy or even possible and my solution is far from perfect, but beggars can't be choosers.

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Tuesday, March 22, 2011 7:29 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Ahh, if it's true this isn't to keep them from carrying cash, then we've been misled and I feel differently about it. Don't like to see any group targeted like this, but I understand the current feeling about it. I actually think the credit-card thing is a good idea, even tho' no matter what anyone does, those determined to spend their funds illegitimately will always find a way, so I think it's a silly waste of governing.
Quote:

Seems like just a few months ago Republicans were popular, elected in a landslide victory in the House, and took control of many state Governorships and Legislatures. So this is what they come up with? This is how they govern? What a pathetic waste of voters' support. What a disgusting path to undo all the political gains they made as fast as they can. The Republican Party is out of control, with no leadership and no message. The Party looks petty and vindictive now. If nothing changes, we're gonna get trounced in 2012.
WELL SAID, JS, what I see and what I've been saying for a while. The victories in the midterms went to Republicans' heads, in my opinion, and they thought they could push through everything they wanted before anyone reacted. It seems pretty clear from ALL their actions, especially that they immediately focused on social issues (and have continued to) rather than what they ran on. Does anyone know of ANY jobs created by the Republicans since being elected?? I sure don't, tho' I know of many things they've done which will COST jobs...

I also think they have no intention of working to better things; I think they believe if they keep the economy bad, they'll win in 2012 and that's been the plan all along. I was reluctant to believe anyone would actually DO such a thing, even the Party of the Rich, but circumstances have made me reluctantly believe that.

They've sure done Democrats some huge favors. We'll see how it goes.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Tuesday, March 22, 2011 8:05 AM

DREAMTROVE


One thing that might work also would be rewarding those who spent frugally. It could be measured in dollars, but also tracked by computers which could identify the "end of the month binge" or the "buy stuff to resell or trade for drugs."

One possible benefit is that the unspent cash could go into a trust fund to be used later for the kids.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Tuesday, March 22, 2011 8:29 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:
Anyone else notice how these two statements don't quite match?

The first statement is misleading, but not entirely inaccurate. Meaning there is a little truth in it.

Quote:

Not blaming you for jumping to conclusions CTS but your quoted article's conclusions are full of partisan garbage.
Agreed. Even if they carefully and accurately stated the problem, the concerns would remain the same. The bill effectively restricts receivers of public assistance from access to and use of cash. All their transactions must now be monitored, like they're in high school or prison.

Quote:

the government that gives it to you has a right to decide what you can't do with it.
Of course they have the right. But that doesn't mean whatever they decide is morally right. This restriction on cash assumes the worst about the poor, that they are morally deficient, incapable of making judicious decisions about their own spending. Just because they are poor. It treats them in an undignified and denigrating manner BECAUSE they are beggars. It strips them away from what little bit of self-determination is left for them. That isn't right.

Now if you want to stop giving them money, that's one thing. But this is the equivalent of giving money to a beggar by throwing it into a muddy ditch to see how low they would go and how much dignity they would surrender to collect your money.

It is not so much the logistics of making do without cash as the attitude behind this bill that I am worried about.

Quote:

.. but beggars can't be choosers.
Supposedly in a democracy, even beggars can have a voice in the legislation that will impact them. So they can try to stop this bill from passing and "choose" not to let it pass.

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Tuesday, March 22, 2011 10:39 AM

DREAMTROVE


Democracy is just dictatorship where you get to pick from two dictators. Our current choice appears to be starting WWIII. Did anyone notice that in the UK there's a real partisan dispute over who has the power to issue the British Pound?

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Tuesday, March 22, 2011 11:02 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Why do the national-socialists (i.e. the alliance) here LOOOOOOVE Britain?



"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"



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Tuesday, March 22, 2011 3:33 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Hard for me to believe that this sort of thing is some kind of priority for Republicans. And coming on the heels of the Wisconsin/Ohio/Michigan union debacle? Seems like just a few months ago Republicans were popular, elected in a landslide victory in the House, and took control of many state Governorships and Legislatures. So this is what they come up with? This is how they govern? What a pathetic waste of voters' support. What a disgusting path to undo all the political gains they made as fast as they can. The Republican Party is out of control, with no leadership and no message. The Party looks petty and vindictive now. If nothing changes, we're gonna get trounced in 2012.





You're surprised that the teabaggers, who were allegedly all about "rights" and keeping the government from taking them away, and all about "small government" and keeping it out of your personal business, would do an about-face and pass legislation that takes away the rights of workers to unionize and collectively bargain, and would now try to put the government's hand squarely in the pockets of the poor?

You're actually surprised by any of this?

Really?

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Tuesday, March 22, 2011 3:36 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
That is just insane...and to me yet another example of how the Republicans, having focused on gaining power in states rather than federally, have gone overboard...WAY overboard...in their class warfare!


You guys have this whole thing backwards. The law is not that illegal for the poor to carry cash...its illegal for them to carry MY cash.

I have no problem with them carrying their own money, just hand over the food stamps, cause they can't have it both ways.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I would rather not ignore your contributions." Niki2, 2010.




Why? You're fine with the rich carrying their own cash AND mine.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Tuesday, March 22, 2011 3:42 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Of course they have the right. But that doesn't mean whatever they decide is morally right. This restriction on cash assumes the worst about the poor, that they are morally deficient, incapable of making judicious decisions about their own spending. Just because they are poor. It treats them in an undignified and denigrating manner BECAUSE they are beggars. It strips them away from what little bit of self-determination is left for them. That isn't right.



Not only that, it seeks to continually REMIND them that they are "beggars", to hold it over their heads.


How many of you would support such restrictions on subsidies, tax breaks, and incentives given to corporations? Restrictions on EXACTLY what they could have, what form they could have it in, what they could do with it, where, when, and how?

Anyone?

Any bets on how long it would take Wulfie to start screaming about how "the government's trying to tell us how to live!"?



"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 8:25 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Not only that, it seeks to continually REMIND them that they are "beggars", to hold it over their heads.


How is that a bad thing? I would not want someone who is a begger to think himself otherwise, it might make them feel...entitled to what they are get (which is what the rest of us are).

I'm entitled to my nice home, fancy car, and hot girlfriend because I work hard for what I get.

I also have to pay for what they get, which bugs me, but I'm a Christian and a good citizen, so lets (grumble, grumble) help folks out...but they have no right not to be grateful or to take advantage.

I'd make them wear a t-shirt that says "I owe all I have to Hero" on one side and "I'm a begger" on the other.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I would rather not ignore your contributions." Niki2, 2010.

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 1:56 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


How very "christian" of you. Just have to make sure everybody knows how good a person you are, eh? Not enough that your stupid god knows.

Your bible says you're going to hell, by the way. ;)

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 9:21 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


I think this is a horrid bill. I'm one of the "poor" people spoken of here so the idea of not being able to carry enough money when I'm out disgusts me and scares me. What is the point of this rule exactly?

And Niki's idea of having a card scares me too, its bad enough that people can track what you buy on your credit card, but having people be able to track your everyday purchases, no rutting way. I'm a responsable spender thank you very much. There are already too strict of restrictions about how much money a person getting benefits can save in the bank at any given time. The good news is that none of us here, as far as I know, live in Minnasota.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, March 24, 2011 1:50 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


It's a bit telling to see the so-calld "small government" conservatives show their support for such big-government actions.

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Thursday, March 24, 2011 2:47 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by piratenews:
How are poor people supposed to buy their crack or meth?



Easy. Register to vote. As long as they register as Democrats.


Jury Convicts Five in Federal Vote Fraud

ASSOCIATED PRESS

EAST ST. LOUIS, Ill. (AP) - A federal jury Wednesday convicted the chairman of the city's Democratic Party and four others of scheming to buy votes with cash, cigarettes and liquor last November.

Prosecutors relied largely on secretly recorded audiotapes in which they say the accused could be heard talking about paying $5 per vote to get key Democrats elected.

Charles Powell Jr., 61, the city's Democratic Party chairman, was found guilty along with the city's former director of regulatory affairs and three others

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Thursday, March 24, 2011 4:29 AM

MOCKROMANCER


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by piratenews:
How are poor people supposed to buy their crack or meth?



Easy. Register to vote. As long as they register as Democrats.


Jury Convicts Five in Federal Vote Fraud

ASSOCIATED PRESS

EAST ST. LOUIS, Ill. (AP) - A federal jury Wednesday convicted the chairman of the city's Democratic Party and four others of scheming to buy votes with cash, cigarettes and liquor last November.

Prosecutors relied largely on secretly recorded audiotapes in which they say the accused could be heard talking about paying $5 per vote to get key Democrats elected.

Charles Powell Jr., 61, the city's Democratic Party chairman, was found guilty along with the city's former director of regulatory affairs and three others




I almost could not believe this story, then I saw it was out of Illinois. This chairman took too much of a risk in my opinion. He should have had a community organizer do this. Power to the people.

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Thursday, March 24, 2011 7:39 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by RionaEire:
What is the point of this rule exactly?


The point is if you have your own money...you don't need mine.

BTW, I'm sorry that you are poor. I wish you were as sorry about it as I am.

I'm tired of hearing that being poor is nothing to be ashamed of. You should be ashamed, I was ashamed when I was in my dead-end job earning my $18k/year. I was ashamed enough to work my ass off to make it to the upper middle class. If I ever get poor again, I'll be ashamed again.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I would rather not ignore your contributions." Niki2, 2010.

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Thursday, March 24, 2011 7:49 AM

MOCKROMANCER


What the state is saying is they want to put food and cash benefits on a card, thus eliminating actual cash in the hands of losers that buy booze, smokes, or drugs with the money. The state will be able to put the onus on the grocer that sells non-approved items(booze and smokes) by tracking the scan sales. I have no problem with this. My guess, only those fucking over the state will care. The recipients of these benefits can have all the cash they want, just not state "cash". So, if you feel bad for any of these people you can always go to Minn and give them all the cash you want. See, they can have that in their pockets. $20 is all the state will give in "cash assistance". Just clearing this disaster up. peace out.

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Thursday, March 24, 2011 7:49 AM

BYTEMITE


...I have no response to the post Hero just made. There are layers and layers, and they are all bombarding my mind in a coordinated assault using cake decorations.

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Thursday, March 24, 2011 7:55 AM

MOCKROMANCER


Quote:

Originally posted by Mockromancer:
What the state is saying is they want to put food and cash benefits on a card, thus eliminating actual cash in the hands of losers that buy booze, smokes, or drugs with the money. The state will be able to put the onus on the grocer that sells non-approved items(booze and smokes) by tracking the scan sales. I have no problem with this. My guess, only those fucking over the state will care. The recipients of these benefits can have all the cash they want, just not state "cash". So, if you feel bad for any of these people you can always go to Minn and give them all the cash you want. See, they can have that in their pockets. $20 is all the state will give in "cash assistance". Just clearing this disaster up. peace out.




So, just to clear up my clearing up. The state no longer is going to give anymore than 20 in cash. The benefits remain the same, it is just in a more accountable form. Nothing like the hysteria in the stupid link that started this joke of a thread. peace out.

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Thursday, March 24, 2011 7:57 AM

DREAMTROVE



It's worth noting that virtually the only thing you can't buy with a credit card is drugs.



That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Thursday, March 24, 2011 10:05 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
...I have no response to the post Hero just made. There are layers and layers, and they are all bombarding my mind in a coordinated assault using cake decorations.


There should be a stigma to being poor. Does this mean we treat the poor worse then those with money, give them a worse education, or less ability to freely travel and enjoy the comforts of our great society...we're already there folks.

I say the poor should be noticed and frowned upon. We should make the poor wear some kind of hat. And those working to better themselves we should encourage and support, and give them a nicer hat.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I would rather not ignore your contributions." Niki2, 2010.

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Thursday, March 24, 2011 12:33 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Byte, I'm having cake later, huzzah! I'll think of you, yay cake!

I hate credit cards, I know I'll eventually have to succumb to having one but I really don't want to, too confusing. But I know I'll have to give in because people don't let you do anything big if you don't have a credit history. :(

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, March 24, 2011 12:48 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Mockromancer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Mockromancer:
What the state is saying is they want to put food and cash benefits on a card, thus eliminating actual cash in the hands of losers that buy booze, smokes, or drugs with the money. The state will be able to put the onus on the grocer that sells non-approved items(booze and smokes) by tracking the scan sales. I have no problem with this. My guess, only those fucking over the state will care. The recipients of these benefits can have all the cash they want, just not state "cash". So, if you feel bad for any of these people you can always go to Minn and give them all the cash you want. See, they can have that in their pockets. $20 is all the state will give in "cash assistance". Just clearing this disaster up. peace out.




So, just to clear up my clearing up. The state no longer is going to give anymore than 20 in cash. The benefits remain the same, it is just in a more accountable form. Nothing like the hysteria in the stupid link that started this joke of a thread. peace out.




In other words, you want more government intrusion and tracking of what people buy, and where, and when, and how. Just as long as they start with poor people. That way, you figure it will hit you last - and THEN you'll get concerned.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Friday, March 25, 2011 5:04 AM

DREAMTROVE


Well, as one of my ancestors (to cross threads) put it: Let them eat cake.
Just be careful, the anti-cake crowd is vicious


That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Friday, March 25, 2011 5:59 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Don't forget the FOREVER MARK OF DOOOOOOM!, either.

Editorial: State should fix cruel, costly change on food assistance
http://www.freep.com/article/20110325/OPINION01/103250350/Editorial-St
ate-should-fix-cruel-costly-change-food-assistance

Quote:

Whether by design or default, the administration of Gov. Rick Snyder has effectively proposed, in next year's budget, banning food and other assistance to people with drug-related felony convictions.

Among other things, this discriminatory, counterproductive and inhumane policy would undermine the state's nationally recognized Michigan Prisoner Re-entry Initiative (MPRI), which has reduced recidivism by helping parolees successfully return to their communities.


Yanno, at SOME POINT, it comes to the question that if you're going to punish someone FOREVER, no matter how they make it right, no matter how much time they serve, no matter how many times over they've paid their debt to society...
If yer gonna do that, it might be more merciful to shoot them in the fucking head.

And, of course, by making SURE they have NO OTHER RECOURSE, *but* to resort to crime, it becomes a self-perpetuating cycle which destroys society in order to enrich the police-security state and it's incarcerative subchapters.

Of course, Snyder ain't even got that excuse, he's just a hateful fucking sociopath like Walker and the rest of them, who like to get their kicks by stomping on folk unable to resist.

-Frem
Quote:

Those responsible, will be held accountable.
V for Vendetta


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Friday, March 25, 2011 6:09 PM

DREAMTROVE


I oppose any marks following ex-cons. Let em go or keep em. Even if I don't agree with the system, it has to be fair or it's completely bogus.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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