America needs more moderate Republicans by Niki2

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

What America really needs is SMARTER Republicans; the current crop are just astonishingly ignorant.

Gingrich, who cheated on his wife out of a profound sense of patriotism.

Romney, who either is or isn't for or against whatever it is that you either are or aren't for or against, just so long as it's a day that ends in "y".

Pawlenty, who had a spectacular failure and flame-out when asked about his Iran policy, and then asked again for confirmation that it was IRAN they were talking about, and then went on to launch into a diatribe about IRAQ, cut repeatedly calling it Iran and the people "Iranians" (not "Iraqis", which doesn't sound at all the same).

Cain, who can't tell the Declaration of Independence from the U.S. Constitution.

Bachmann, who can't tell New Hampshire from Massachusetts.

Palin, who still insists that Paul Rever rode through the countryside shooting his guns and ringing his bells while riding, in order to warn the British that the British were coming.

Then you have the maybe-rans, such as Chris Christie, who insists that we all need to "tighten our belts", which is especially ironic coming from someone who looks like he weighs all of 980 pounds, and who is physically incapable of tightening his own belt, and who can't walk the 100 yards from the taxpayer-funded helicopter to his son's baseball game, and who then can't even stay for the game, because WATCHING baseball is too much exercise for him.

MItch Daniels, whose claim to fame was serving as Bush's first budget director, and who saw the budget go from a $236 billion SURPLUS to more than $400 billion in deficits in just one year on his watch. Of course, he was also a member of the National Security Council on September 11th, and we all know how well that worked out for the nation.

Trump. 'Nuff said.

Rick Perry. What could possibly go wrong with the idea of electing a Texas governor to the White House? There are really only two words necessary to tank any hopes Perry has of courting a bunch of tea-baggers into voting for him: "Al" and "Gore". Seriously. You can't make this stuff up.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, June 11, 2011 2:18 AM

HARDWARE

I agree that there need to be more smart candidates on the ballot, on both sides.

I'll quibble on Daniels, as I do like what he's done with the Indiana budget since assuming the role of governor there.

Since you're boots on the ground in Texas I assume you know more about the day to day Rick Perry. Is there a certain piece of legislation or a pattern of behavior that you don't like? Tarring him with the same brush as Bush is just unfair. Unless you have an articulable reason.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, June 11, 2011 2:37 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

" producers of positive government "

Wow, there's an oxymoronic bundle, right there.

The list of great moderate Republicans, great moderate ANY things, is going to be embarrassingly short.

Moderates are sell outs. Appeasers. Those who believe in only that which will get them the most votes from both sides.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, June 11, 2011 2:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hardware:
I agree that there need to be more smart candidates on the ballot, on both sides.

I'll quibble on Daniels, as I do like what he's done with the Indiana budget since assuming the role of governor there.

Since you're boots on the ground in Texas I assume you know more about the day to day Rick Perry. Is there a certain piece of legislation or a pattern of behavior that you don't like? Tarring him with the same brush as Bush is just unfair. Unless you have an articulable reason.

Start with the Gardasil debacle, Perry's version of a "state mandate" on health issues.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2011/06/04/rick_perrys_garda
sil_problem_110089.html

Look into his campaign financing, specifically his use of Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission (TABC) employees to collect "donations" to his campaign from bar and club owners that the TABC regulates.

http://thetexascloverleaf.blogspot.com/2009/10/tabc-perpetuates-pay-to
-play-with-perry.html

HIs heavy-handed antics with regards to state-mandated ultrasound for anyone contemplating abortion are just the latest - the state dictating that every doctor giving advice or help MUST read a script written by conservative legislators and citing spurious medical data that have no basis in fact.

And, of course, just his woeful ignorance of his own state's history in claiming that Texas can secede anytime it wants.

Perry's "leadership" over the past decade has put Texas into almost as deep a budgetary hole as California, but they have more ability to dig themselves out.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, June 11, 2011 2:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
" producers of positive government "

Wow, there's an oxymoronic bundle, right there.

So you admit that no conservative runs for office to in any way bring about "postitive government", yes? It's only about power and a negative impact.

Quote:

The list of great moderate Republicans, great moderate ANY things, is going to be embarrassingly short.

Moderates are sell outs. Appeasers. Those who believe in only that which will get them the most votes from both sides.

Reagan was quite moderate. Obama's a better conservative than Reagan was.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, June 11, 2011 3:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hardware:
The problem with his appeal to conservatives is that Massachusetts created Romneycare under his Governorship. Anybody who is against Obamacare is going to take a dim view of that.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

Romney has more problems than Romneycare. He also quite after 18 months. He didn't step down, he just left his gov. Office never to return, or so I heard.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, June 11, 2011 4:30 AM

DMAANLILEILTT

Great moderate Republicans: Teddy Roosevelt anyone? Or what about Eisenhower?

"I really am ruggedly handsome, aren't I?"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, June 11, 2011 4:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

Reagan was quite moderate. Obama's a better conservative than Reagan was.

And as a guy who's " boots on the ground" here in California, and has been for a now-pretty-long lifetime, RR was the guy who wrecked this state, before he went on to the White House and began wrecking the entire nation.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, June 11, 2011 6:43 AM

Mike

Quote:

Reagan was quite moderate. Obama's a better conservative than Reagan was.

You can't really believe this...

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, June 11, 2011 8:42 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
And as a guy who's " boots on the ground" here in California, and has been for a now-pretty-long lifetime, RR was the guy who wrecked this state, before he went on to the White House and began wrecking the entire nation.

You literally live in bizzaro world. Reagan saved this nation, more than any other. Unbelievable the level of sheer ignorance that shows up on this board.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, June 11, 2011 2:05 PM

KANEMAN

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Mike
Quote:

Reagan was quite moderate. Obama's a better conservative than Reagan was.

You can't really believe this...

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, June 11, 2011 2:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Mike
Quote:

Reagan was quite moderate. Obama's a better conservative than Reagan was.

You can't really believe this...

You obviously have never looked into their tax policies. Isn't conservatism first and foremost about taxes? Size of government? Shrinking the debt?

Reagan's taxes were higher than Obama's. Reagan increased the size of the government by a larger percentage than Obama. Reagan also more than doubled the national debt, as did Bush. Obama has yet to come close.

You really need to check your own partisan blinders sometime, DT.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, June 11, 2011 4:28 PM

Mike

1) My partisan blInders? i'm a disloyal democrat. You're often mindlessly partisan (sorry)

2) Reagan had one of the most sensible tax plans I've ever seen. The lowest I've ever seen, for the poor. Obama's are the highest. Perhaps ever. Obama has gotten rid of the bottom two tax brackets, and added everyone in the mom and pop shop world to contractor levels for FICA. my tax rate will be an effective 35% on a subpoverty income, under Reagan, it would have been 0%

3) you're going to talk about debt in %s and ignore raw numbers? Reagan created almost no debt (certainly didn't double it. He inherited two trillion 2000 $ and left with two trillion and change.) Obama inherited $8T and now has $14T PLUS the $8 trillion in mortgage debt which he created, by giving a govt. Guarantee, which was done by Obama, not Bush, and the TARP investment liability (max $23 trillion) and then there's the long term liability issue created by entitlement programs.

Sorry, that statement was so moronic it was Hero-worthy. It has about as much truth and makes as much sense as saying that Ayn Rand is to the left of Mao.

Basically. Reaganomics is Thatcherism with an American twist and a light sprinkling of corruption. (or perhaps a double dip with nuts and jimmies) but it's still thatcher at its core.

Obama is solid Chicago School with a side of CFR and a Bernanke on top with a Keynesian shake and a tip that would make a stripper blush.

I can't say that Obama is the most fiscally irresponsible president I've ever seen, unless you mean American. After all, I've seen Yeltsin and Mugabe. OTOH, it's only been two years. Give Obama eight years and he may very well hit that mark.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, June 11, 2011 7:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
And as a guy who's " boots on the ground" here in California, and has been for a now-pretty-long lifetime, RR was the guy who wrecked this state, before he went on to the White House and began wrecking the entire nation.

You literally live in bizzaro world. Reagan saved this nation, more than any other. Unbelievable the level of sheer ignorance that shows up on this board.

I LIVE IN CALIFORNIA. Do you? I LIVED in this state when it was a pretty damn good state. That was before Reagan was Governor. I WATCHED what he did here. This state has been a wreck ever since. And I SAW what he did while in the White House, and that the entire nation is worse off because of it.

So don't talk to me about ignorance , you lying, propaganga spewing punk.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, June 12, 2011 12:31 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

I'm telling you that you're ignorant, straight up.

I also saw what he did FOR this country, and how it rebounded from Carter's malaise. California is a perpetual train wreck, and no ONE governor can save it. Y'all need far more help to do that, so your claims of Reagan screwing up your state are laughable, at best.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, June 12, 2011 2:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:

1) My partisan blInders? i'm a disloyal democrat. You're often mindlessly partisan (sorry)

You mean you're a dishonest Republican. Your right-wing partisan blindness is well-known in these parts. Sorry, but anyone who admires Reagan's economic policies and tax strategies is blind, plain and simple. Don't add stupidity to your blindness by posting stuff like this:

Quote:

2) Reagan had one of the most sensible tax plans I've ever seen. The lowest I've ever seen, for the poor. Obama's are the highest. Perhaps ever. Obama has gotten rid of the bottom two tax brackets, and added everyone in the mom and pop shop world to contractor levels for FICA. my tax rate will be an effective 35% on a subpoverty income, under Reagan, it would have been 0%

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/06/01/233526/taxes-lower-reagan/

Quote:
That House Republicans find this preposterous is symptomatic of the hold Reagan mythology has over them. After all, for seven of Reagan’s eight years in office, the top tax rate was higher than the current 35 percent. In six of those years, it was 50 percent or more. And every year that Regan was in office, the bottom tax bracket was higher than the current ten percent.
For a family of four, the “average income tax rate under Reagan in 1983 was 11.06 percent. Under Clinton in 1992, it was 9.18 percent. And under Obama in 2010, it was 4.68 percent.” During Reagan’s time, income tax revenue ranged from 7.8 to 9.4 percent of GDP. Last year, it was 6.2 percent and is not projected to climb back to 9 percent until 2016. In fact, in 2009, Americans paid their lowest taxes in 60 years.
Republicans are very fond of saying that the U.S. has “a spending problem, not a revenue problem.” But the truth is that revenue has plunged due to the recession and to continued misguided tax cuts, and revenue needs to be raised to eventually bring the budget into balance. And Reagan knew that taxes were an important part of the budget equation. After all, he “raised taxes in seven of his eight years in office,” including four times in just two years.

Quote:

3) you're going to talk about debt in %s and ignore raw numbers? Reagan created almost no debt (certainly didn't double it. He inherited two trillion 2000 $ and left with two trillion and change.) Obama inherited $8T and now has $14T PLUS the $8 trillion in mortgage debt which he created, by giving a govt. Guarantee, which was done by Obama, not Bush, and the TARP investment liability (max $23 trillion) and then there's the long term liability issue created by entitlement programs.

THAT, old friend, is hilarious; it's also patently ridiculous. You want to compare the national debt when Reagan STARTED in "2000 $", and then you neatly leave his debt upon exiting in 1988 $. And even with that cute little trick of yours, the raw numbers still say you're full of crap.

Let's have a look at the raw numbers, shall we?

Quote:

09/29/1989 2,857,430,960,187.32
09/30/1988 2,602,337,712,041.16
09/30/1987 2,350,276,890,953.00
09/30/1986 2,125,302,616,658.42
09/30/1985 1,823,103,000,000.00
09/30/1984 1,572,266,000,000.00
09/30/1983 1,377,210,000,000.00
09/30/1982 1,142,034,000,000.00
09/30/1981 997,855,000,000.00

So, starting with around a trillion, give or take a few bil, and ending at nearly THREE trillion. You're right in one sense: "he certainly didn't double it". I was being kind to Reagan, giving him the benefit of the doubt. He damn near TRIPLED the national debt.

And of course you don't see that as any big deal. Just a bit of spare change.

You're also either woefully misinformed about Obama's numbers, or you're deliberately misleading people about them.

Quote:

09/30/2010 13,561,623,030,891.79
09/30/2009 11,909,829,003,511.75

That's not $8 trillion in debt when he came in; it also doesn't show anything like the $6 trillion you claim he's added.

TARP was Bush's baby. Sorry you lost your sense of time on that one. He signed it into law in October 2008.

As to "entitlement programs", did Obama invent such programs?

Really, your claims here are so idiotic and provably untrue that it makes one question whether you can be honest about ANYTHING. You probably owe "Hero" an apology.

Quote:

I can't say that Obama is the most fiscally irresponsible president I've ever seen, unless you mean American. After all, I've seen Yeltsin and Mugabe. OTOH, it's only been two years. Give Obama eight years and he may very well hit that mark.

As I've pointed out before, that honor - most fiscally irresponsible - belongs squarely to Lincoln. Look it up. He set the tone for future Republicans with his profligate spending and running up the debt.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, June 12, 2011 9:21 AM

Don't get me started on Lincoln... just don't.
The fact that we have monuments devoted to that motherfucker makes me nauseous, it does.

-F

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, June 12, 2011 9:56 AM

Mike,

Lincoln was a moron. However, I wasn't there to see him. I suspect Obama is on a similar path.

I'm not defending Bush. Bush also sucks. That doesn't excuse Obama's sucking.

Here the pre-Obama debt is at 9 trillion 2009 dollars, that's probably the same as 8 trillion 2000 dollars. I was going by a chart in 2000 dollars I posted here a while back, there's been inflation. Congress is waiting on raising the debt ceiling BECAUSE China will not let us without giving them some guarantee. That will undoubtedly end up in some arrangement like PN was saying, where China builds colonies in the US, rather than where we actually pay them, which we might as well borrow a trillion to do.

Right now

The budget is at a $1.4 trillion shortfall, plus 1.645 shortfall for the 2012 budget. That means over $3 trillion the debt ceiling will have to be raised. If it's not, Obama will do what Clinton did, and start selling off pieces of America. What can he sell? Mineral rights to the resources under the US: Oil, Coal, Natural Gas.

That's 14.3 trillion PLUS 3 trillion (no matter how they get it, because it's debt either way) PLUS the 8 trillion in mortgage bonds, PLUS, whatever they pay to TARP, PLUS the entitlement spending etc. Bare minimum is 25 trillion of actual bonds to pay, total is going to be over 100 trillion. That's enough to bankrupt America.

Obama expanded bailouts, entitlements, and wars. We are currently at war in: Syria, Yemen, Libya, Pakistan, Iraq and all of Afghanistan (Which is a bunch of little countries, not one big one.) That's up from Iraq and 1/3 of Aghanistan.

Wars cost money. So, Obama borrows money. And raises taxes. <- this is not a political partisan statement. Obama raises taxes. My taxes are skyrocketing because of Obama.

The current state of official debt
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
Note, debt is 97.8% of GDP, spending is 46%. This doesn't include debts like Mtg backed (now obama govt. backed) bonds, TARP liabilities and entitlement liabilities. (welfare: 2/3 of all welfare spending goes to households with assets of over a million dollars) To say nothing of corporate subsidies, dach.

The price of oil is skyrocketing because of Obama:

The staged BP oil spill banned offshore drilling.
Obama has attacked or funded revolutions in virtually every member of OPEC

When Obama took office, it was at $35 a barrel. That didn't sit well with him. The price is now over $100. That has given a lot of support to fracking and mountaintop removal, policies supported by Bush/Obama, which are killing us, right here, right now.

Or perhaps I should call it OBusha.

My old Kentucky Home, in the good old days of So-so Ronald Reagan:

Hopey Changey Kentucky, JULY 2010

My Reagan water

My Obama water

Obama 2012: Don't drink the koolaid. Better not drink the water either.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, June 12, 2011 12:14 PM

I call bullshit.

I too was here for that fucker Reagan, albeit not in California.

Quote:
Although it has been pointed out that Ronald Reagan (1981-1989) had been pretty solid on the environment as governor of California, he seemed to take a turn for the worse once he got to the White House. "The Reagan administration adopted an extraordinarily aggressive policy of issuing leases for oil, gas and coal development on tens of millions of acres of national lands -- more than any other administration in history, including the current one," the Wilderness Society's David Alberswerth has reported.

Perhaps setting the tone for much of his policy, Reagan famously (and bizarrely) said "trees cause more pollution than automobiles do," and that if "you've seen one tree you've seen them all." As president Reagan shocked greens by hiring the notorious James Watt and Anne Gorsuch for the heads of the Department of Interior and the EPA. The industry-friendly appointees worked tirelessly to roll back environmental regulations, from the Clean Air Act to the Clean Water Act. In the administration's first year, there was a 79 percent decline in the number of enforcement cases filed from regional offices to EPA headquarters, and a 69 percent decline in the number of cases filed from the EPA to the Department of Justice.

Reagan's Superfund director, Rita Lavelle, was sent to jail after a Congressional investigation into alleged corruption (called "Sewergate"). Lavelle returned to prison in 2005 after being accused of fraud in a case of faked environmental cleanup in the private sector.

Reagan also rolled back Carter's CAFE standards for car gas mileage, slashed funding for renewable energy (sending the burgeoning industry into a freefall it still hasn't recovered from), signed an executive order that forces unworkable evacuation plans on communities surrounding nuclear power plants, and unceremoniously ripped the solar panels off the White House. Reagan may have been a nice man, but he drove us right back into oil addiction, some say setting the stage for years of global conflict and indirect funding of terrorism.

Indirect my ass, lest you forget, I have an EXTREME personal grudge against the friggin Reagan administration over Nicaragua, not the LEAST of which is what happened to the poor bastards who *did* get on that plane.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reagan_Doctrine#U.S._role_in_human_rights
_abuses_in_Central_America
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Contra_affair#U.S._knowledge
_of_drug_trafficking_and_the_Contras
Death Squads, School of the Americas, Drug Trafficking, Murder and Torture (although we hid it better and no one much cared), propping up Fascists to help us loot their country while thousands starved, were poisoned by american corps polluting, or simply murdered by the goon squads we trained, oh yeah, such a nice guy Reagan was - even sent Rumsfeld to help facilitate the sale chemical weapons to Saddam, cause, yanno the Iranians didn't take well to us murdering Mossedeigh and propping up The Shah, who imprisoned, tortured and murdered a damn lotta people before they ran his ass out and replaced him with Khomeni, who, frankly, had DAMN GOOD REASONS for his grudge against us, so we prop up some other slimeball bastard, name of Saddam Hussein, and encourage him to make war on em - yeeeeahh, tell me how WELL that worked out?

And yeah, verily, I know we're STILL doin all of it, denials aside - case in point Grumman Gulfstream II, tail number N987SA, go look it up.

Or how about Reaganomics, and Trickle-Down, which if you really wanna pick some shit, was the point where our current economic crash STARTED, with his fucking robbing the poor to give to the rich, and handing out corporate welfare left and right while doing jack-diddly shit about them outsourcing, something made all the worse by BOTH of the nimrods that followed him and no one's done fuckall about it since.

Anyhows, don't even SPEAK to me about that bastard Reagan unless you're prepared to discuss the tremendous amount of blood on his hands - just cause he didn't do it personally does NOT whatever absolve him of a (conservative) SEVEN DIGIT bodycount....

Which makes him, in my eyes, a monster.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, June 12, 2011 4:35 PM

Quote:
The price of oil is skyrocketing because of Obama:

In the future, in case you were wondering, that's where I decided you had nothing of value to add to any discussion, and realized that you are well and truly batshit-PN-variety-crazy.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, June 12, 2011 5:43 PM

Frem,

Of course.

But now we are doing that in spades. Presidents just get worse over time. Think of the endless number of countries we're currently funding revolution and wars against all across the middle east and africa, *outside* of the places we're currently at war.

I actually don't see where you get off posting BS to my post, because, quite frankly, there's nothing you just posted about Reagan that I didn't post myself. Much of it several times. I'm sorry, it just comes off as partisan hackery.

The point was Mike's rather preposterous statement that Obama was more of a conservative that Reagan, economically speaking.

I'm not defending Reagan, who I just called "so-so" in the very post you're responding to, but I have to call out some nonsense.

1) I don't recall Reagan using the term trickle down, but I do recall Obama using it. It's not a conservative economic idea, it's a moronic one. That's what they're using to excuse bailouts, but it's still nonsense.

2) I used to think 7 digits, but I've revised it down to 6 for Reagan. The worst US presidents on death toll are FDR, who gets 7, Truman also 7, Johnson, 7, and Lincoln, 7. I'm not sure about Wilson, unless we're counting deaths due to arms that he sold, then I suppose he makes the grade, and in that sense, Clinton, who I grant 8 digits, otherwise he gets 7. Clinton probably is a match for Wilson.

But you know damn well that the Reagan era shenanigans funding thugs worldwide is SOP for the US govt, and neither started nor ended with him, and is going on right now with not just CIA and the old alphabet soup but whole new mercenary armies with JSOC and XE.

If you want to look at American casualties, for the first time since Lincoln* this poisoning the Earth thing is going to rack us over 7 figures, and Bush/Obama get the blame for this, With Cheney and Clinton in the back room pulling the strings.

* Also can count Jackson in there, though not during his term in office.

But really, the question was about fiscal responsibility. Reagan (read my previous post) was corrupt, but at least there was halfway sound economic theory (Thatcher) behind the idea. Obama is either incredibly crooked economically, or incredibly dumb. I suspect that he's economically clueless and his economic advisors are crooked.

Reagan is everything you say he is, and this is more of the same, only worse.

You do know that Lisa Jackson of the new and improved EPA just backed up industry claims that people have always been able to set their water on fire, it's perfectly natural and there's nothing toxic in the fracking mix, and that mountaintop removal was also a-ok.

So, if you actually want to dispute anything I actually said, please feel free, but I don't see anyone doing that.

Mike,

Obama invaded almost every country in OPEC, and put sanctions against most of the remaining members, and the price of oil tripled, almost directly. Stating a market fact is too crazy?

Oil prices, Jan 2009-Dec 2010

Oil prices, start in the middle of the graph for jan-2011 to present.

Today I have it at $102. That would, yes, be up from $35. I suspect policies had something to do with this. I know that the high oil prices have a lot to do with the fracking and MTR.

Yeah, I know Bush jacked up the price of oil too, and promoted these same sorts of policies.

This ain't a partisan issue dude. In PA right next door, the massive contamination that I suspect is the source of my sister's cancer is the product of a democratic govt. and governor, with strong support from the current democratic party of PA, and it's getting nothing but love letters from the PA republican party as well.

Wake up. The Dems are just another flavor of GOP. There's no difference. Individuals might be different, but face it, it's the same sh*t shoveled with the same scoop just came out of the wrong end of a different animal.

Individual politicians may be different, but the parties, their leaders, the collective voice... there's no damn difference, and there never was... and the good people aren't ever going to outnumber the corrupt corporate cretins.

I'm sorry, I just get sick of the whole donkey dong sucking. Nothing good is coming out of that donkey dong that you want to drink.

Same goes for anyone with an elephant schong in their mouth.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, June 12, 2011 7:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
My Reagan water

That.

Bullshit.

Reagan and his religious nutball appointees did their level best to gut and destroy the Clean Air and Clean Water acts, and rolled back not only many protections, but ended much of the testing which ensured folk had clean water - consider that only recently has the EPA at all, and barely, recovered from years of being sabotaged and attempts to turn it into as much a corporate enabler as the FDA has become.

So you're Reagan water comment was straight BS - only reason he played along with California is cause they woulda gone berserk and kicked him out of office if he pulled that shit as governor, and even the hacks in Congress at the time were appalled by his disrespect for the environment and often fought him tooth and nail on these measures, with varied success.

Also, simple solution, start fucking impeaching them and handing em over to the ICC or the Hague, this lack of international accountability HAS TO STOP, they shouldn't get away with this shit just cause they don't (yet) do it on american soil, oh hell no - it's still malicious and criminal, innit ?

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, June 13, 2011 7:29 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

Frem, is there anyone in the world who doesn't piss you off? Are there any times when you aren't angry? Who would you say is your favorite and least favorite president?

No matter who the president is he/she will mess up because no one can do things that everyone will agree with or like. Its just part of being human. The other problem is that people in power are all making back room agreements with each other and they're all corrupt, as power tends to do, it corrupts absolutely. Seems to be part of being a polititian.

There was once a woman in a bookstore who said she thought the best way to choose leaders would be to randomly draw names out of a hat. As much as that would totally not work in reality I think the point she was trying to make is that anyone who gets involved in politics, has any experience with it whatsoever, ends up corrupt so maybe average Joes wouldn't be tainted yet. I think that was what she was getting at.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, June 13, 2011 7:40 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
In the future, in case you were wondering, that's where I decided you had nothing of value to add to any discussion, and realized that you are well and truly batshit-PN-variety-crazy.

Well, DT's not QUITE as crazy as PN. But he has his moments....

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, June 14, 2011 5:34 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Oh, BTW... Why does American need more moderate Republicans? We have quite a few of them. They're called Democrats.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, June 14, 2011 6:22 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
And as a guy who's " boots on the ground" here in California, and has been for a now-pretty-long lifetime, RR was the guy who wrecked this state, before he went on to the White House and began wrecking the entire nation.

You literally live in bizzaro world. Reagan saved this nation, more than any other. Unbelievable the level of sheer ignorance that shows up on this board.

I LIVE IN CALIFORNIA. Do you? I LIVED in this state when it was a pretty damn good state. That was before Reagan was Governor. I WATCHED what he did here. This state has been a wreck ever since. And I SAW what he did while in the White House, and that the entire nation is worse off because of it.

So don't talk to me about ignorance , you lying, propaganga spewing punk.

No point trying to talk sense to the devout. Reagonomics is a religion to morons like the RapTard.

ETA: And upon catching up with the thread, I guess we can count DT amongst that group of zealots. Wow.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, June 14, 2011 7:08 AM

BYTEMITE

>_> Do we want smart politicians? Because if we have smart politicians, they might actually be able to hide all their misdeeds instead of being immediately found out. It's bad enough we have smart political advisers.

I'd be happy with a crop of idiots that we could stick in the Rotunda and entertain with puppet shows for six years. Then we can make them sign off on anything where people might die if they didn't, and otherwise they do NOTHING ELSE.

...I'm going to spend the rest of today blissed out and imagining that world. That should fill my yearly quota of not being a cynical cuss, I'm going to be pretty worthless for a few hours. Just so you know.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, June 14, 2011 7:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:

No point trying to talk sense to the devout. Reagonomics is a religion to morons like the RapTard.

Too, too true.
I had forgotten. I thought perhaps that REAL FACTS, based on actual experience, might count as Truth in argument.
I also noticed that he never did answer my question about where he actually lives.
Living in a place where we actually experienced what Reagan did doesn't weight in against long distance faith and zealotry.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, June 14, 2011 7:36 AM

BYTEMITE

Hmm? AURaptor lives in Georgia. DT lives in New York. He might've been living in Chicago or Iowa at the time of Reagan, he's mentioned it before and I'm fuzzy on his life history.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, June 14, 2011 9:57 AM

I was living in Kentucky. See above post that's being tiraded against.

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:

ETA: And upon catching up with the thread, I guess we can count DT amongst that group of zealots. Wow.

Nice dick move there.

Check the above pictures of Kentucky then and now.

The Reagan discussion between me and Frem continued here:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=48758

Specifically, I was making the point that Mikey made a comment that was completely absurd, almost on the level with Hero's "Before we nuked Japan they were living in grass huts throwing spears" or "Trees don't deserve to live."

Oh, and BTW, your guy nuked my KY home. And now my NY home. For cheap coal and gas.

Frem is right: just because Reagan didn't blow up America doesn't make him a good man or a good president. It does make him not as bad as Bush/Obama. I hold that Mikey's statement in defense of Obama is still idiotic.

Obama is George W. Bush V. 2.0. Fuck him. Is there a corner of the world he hasn't fucked up yet?

Mountaintop Removal, the BP "spill", Syria, Yemen, Libya, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and now we're supporting terrorism in two dozen more countries and Fracking, on every continent on Earth, not to mention deforestation, etc. And that doesn't even touch the largest debt the world has ever seen, which is what is really making us subservient to socialism, which is the ideology of almost all of the governments the planet has ever seen, with the exceptions of Francisco Solano Lopez and Leopold II and probably a couple others.

God, I'm impressed by how much my party sucks. Anyone who dissents on any point is pilloried. How completely pathetic.

Really irritated and very busy at the moment, which is why I need to take a break. Keep it real, and don't drink the Koolaid.

Select to view spoiler:

It was Flavoraid. Jim Jones was too cheap for Koolaid, saved 2c a packet. Unless it was really the CIA, in which case, they were too cheap, but the brand paid the price anyway. OTOH, where is Flavoraid now?

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, June 14, 2011 11:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
Frem, is there anyone in the world who doesn't piss you off?

A few, not many - Jains in particular don't as I have more sympathy than I'd ever admit to em for just how painful it must be for them to work with someone (myself) who's beliefs and methodology so deeply violate many of their core principles, and do so without rebuke or anger.

Quote:
Are there any times when you aren't angry?

I have my moments, but it's hard NOT to be angry when the ugliness of our current world and society crowds into ones consciousness at every turn and corner - I'm not the emotionless wrecking ball some take me for, my rage comes from the fact that I *do* care, albeit damn near unwillingly.

Quote:
Who would you say is your favorite and least favorite president?

Fav: Eisenhower - flawed that he was, he was the cream of a pretty cruddy crop.

Worst: Lincoln - hands down, he destroyed everything that made "America" what it was in one fell swoop, and he didn't free the slaves, he made us ALL slaves, bitches to the Federal Government monstrosity that Hamilton wanted, and Pat Henry dreaded.

-F

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, June 14, 2011 12:45 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

To a number of people:

Quote:
What America really needs is SMARTER Republicans; the current crop are just astonishingly ignorant.

Not sure about that. I don’t think they’re particularly DUMB (for politicians, that is), just way too “ideologically” stupid, and being extremely manipulated by their hard-core right. With the exception of Bachman, who HAS to be either ignorant, stupid or just plain crazy.

Quote:
I agree that there need to be more smart candidates on the ballot, on both sides.

Agreed, as has seemed to be the case in my lifetime!

Quote:
Moderates are sell outs. Appeasers.

Bullshit, compromise is the only way ANYTHING, good or bad, gets done in government. It’s been that way from the start.
Dman: EISENHOWER! I met him when he came to Afghanistan (of course at that age, I didn’t know shit from shinola), and what I learned of him later made me respect him.

Sig:

Quote:
Oh, BTW... Why does American need more moderate Republicans? We have quite a few of them. They're called Democrats.

Ouch.

Unfortunately, all too true.

Story:

Quote:
No point trying to talk sense to the devout. Reagonomics is a religion to morons like the RapTard.

ETA: And upon catching up with the thread, I guess we can count DT amongst that group of zealots. Wow.

Also unfortunately all too true, and yeah, DT surprised me too.

Newold:

Quote:
I had forgotten. I thought perhaps that REAL FACTS, based on actual experience, might count as Truth in argument.

But you see, with Raptor and Wulf, you’re not HAVING an argument...or a debate, or even communication. They spout what they’ve heard, and “real facts” mean absolutely nothing to them. I try to keep that in mind. I know it’s hard sometimes, as there are actual people here who WANT to engage in communication, but it’s mentally healthier to remember whose post I’m reading when it comes to them. Mocking is about as close as I get to responding most of the time.

Quote:
Living in a place where we actually experienced what Reagan did doesn't weight in against long distance faith and zealotry

But you have to remember, Raptor and Wulf HATE California, so nothing wrong here could be Reagan’s (or Ahnold’s) fault. Raptor hates us because we’re tolerant (and usually go Democrat in elections) and Wulf hates us because we’re the home of the hippies (in his mind we still ARE). You’ll never get any logic or sense out of either one when it comes to California.

As to Frem, Riona, he’s often not angry. Politicians, yes, he’s got a strong dislike of even the best of them (is there such a thing?), but one can look at his life’s work and see quite clearly that politicians created/defended/approved of a lot of the things he worked so hard to destry in order to save kids from “what’s good for them” (shudder). So he’s got reasons for being angry the rest of us don’t have, and if you’re here long enough, you’ll see there’s LOTS he doesn’t hate.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, June 14, 2011 12:47 PM

http://mydd.com/2009/11/19/undoing-reagan-restoring-the-california-dre
am

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

As for Reagan, he’s a whole ‘nother matter. There's a politician I truly hate, for all the damage he did to California and then the country.

Quote:
And as a guy who's " boots on the ground" here in California, and has been for a now-pretty-long lifetime, RR was the guy who wrecked this state, before he went on to the White House and began wrecking the entire nation.

Ahhh, a fellow Crazy Californian. I knew I liked you. As to what you said: Right on, 100%; we couldn’t believe it when he was actually ELECTED Prez. Unfortunately, our fears about him were pretty right on, while our fears about Bush turned out to be more than we ever imagined!

Quote:
You literally live in bizzaro world. Reagan saved this nation, more than any other. Unbelievable the level of sheer ignorance that shows up on this board.

gawd, it hurts I’m laughing so hard!

Quote:
I LIVE IN CALIFORNIA. Do you? I LIVED in this state when it was a pretty damn good state. That was before Reagan was Governor. I WATCHED what he did here. This state has been a wreck ever since. And I SAW what he did while in the White House, and that the entire nation is worse off because of it.

THAT about sums it up! Hee, hee, you sound about as pissed off as I am about it. Just some info for those who don’t know shit from shinola NOW (not that he'll read it or believe it). Here are a few comments that say it pretty well:

Quote:
It looks like his policies as governor may result in California becoming the US's first failed state. Almost all of the US's current problems can be traced to Reagan, who took Jimmy Carter's solar panels off the White House and began changing tax laws to benefit the rich. Changes of policy matter. Some take a long time to reach their logical consequences. The destruction of California's first-class public school system followed fairly quickly after Reagan. The rest has just taken longer. Here's what seems relevant to me: The rich paid more in California and the USA before Reagan came to power (and still lived pretty damn well). Reagan made sure they got to keep more of their wealth; the price was the nation's infrastructure, so things kind of suck for the rest of us now.

Here's what seems relevant to me: The rich paid more in California and the USA before Reagan came to power (and still lived pretty damn well). Reagan made sure they got to keep more of their wealth; the price was the nation's infrastructure, so things kind of suck for the rest of us now.

http://shetterly.blogspot.com/2010/01/did-ronald-reagan-destroy-califo
rnia.html

Here’s a video:

Quote:
This video exposes the Arnold Schwarzenegger's role in creating the crisis by pushing through another major cut in California taxes in 2003. The situation now is devestating as these two video clips show, and popular protest is mounting (with teachers planning a hunger strike.) The crisis didn't start with Schwarenegger; nor did it start with the grand fraud perpetrated by Enron. It began when Ronald Reagan was governor in 1978 and pushed through Proposition 13 -- a major tax reduction that also instituted the requirement of a 2/3 majority. Reagan did begin the process that led to the passage of the Jarvis proposition 13, with his support to proposition 1, which was defeated.

(video and text at http://discuss.epluribusmedia.net/content/reagans-vision-america-now-c
alifornias-reality)

Comments: Ronald Reagan is a metaphor for both the GOP, and everything that's wrong with America today. He not only destroyed our economy with the ridiculous scam that if you give Gucci a big enough tax cut he'll hire people to sell gucci bags in a homeless shelter, but he also flooded our inner cities with drugs to finance his illegal imperialism in Nicaragua. He should have not only been impeached, but jailed.

Proposition 1 was an inevitable and essential part of the Reagan saga. When he took office, Reagan dealt with the existing imbalance of the California budget by raising taxes; later legislation provided some tax relief, but California taxes and spending were greater in relation to state personal income at the end of his tenure than at the start.

The thing I blame Reagan for the MOST is the destruction of our educational system, which was once the BEST IN THE WORLD! That alone I will never forgive, much less his enhancement of the rich at the expense of the rest of us:

Quote:
Ronald Reagan launched his political career in 1966 in his run for the governorship in California by targeting UC Berkeley's student peace activists, its professors, and, to a great extent, the University of California itself. His oft-repeated mantra was "to clean up the mess at Berkeley." In the end, he destroyed what was one of the great equalizers in California's meritocracy. Under Reagan began our shift from education as a right to education as a privilege for the wealthy or as an investment for the rest of us.

Reagan, who attended a bible college without distinguishing himself, viewed the Free Speech Movement at Berkeley with deep suspicion. In his campaign he vowed to "investigate charges of communism and blatant sexual misbehavior on the Berkeley campus." He proposed deep across budget cuts for the system and cavalierly suggested that Berkeley sell its collections of rare books in the Bancroft Library and hold bake sales in Sproul Plaza. He repeated Milton Friedman's views whenever and wherever he could: "Individuals should bear the costs of investments in themselves and receive the rewards."

"The state should not subsidized intellectual curiosity" declared Reagan when he finally ended a century-long state policy of free tuition in what has long been the nation's crown jewel of public universities. Founded in 1868 as a city of learning, the University of California was free for all. Today tuition runs $9,748 for in-state residents. Total cost runs over $28,000. And it is about to go up significantly effectively ending the American dream for tens of thousands who will be priced out of the nation's largest higher education system. For the 2010-2011 academic year, tuition will rise by 32 percent.

It's not just the ten flagship campuses of the University of California system that are hurting. It is the entire system. The state's 110 community colleges are designed to be affordable launchpads to further education, with the assurance that after a two-year foundation, students can land at one of the California State University or University of California campuses. Once they arrive at universities, data shows that transfers are successful, graduating at a slightly higher rate than students who enter as freshmen. But six in ten community college students are unable to graduate largely because cuts have so devastated the system that they can't get the classes they need to complete their associate's degree. California now ranks 39th among states in the percentage of bachelor's degrees awarded to high school graduates.

And as California's educational prowess sinks so does the state overall. Restoring the California Dream does, in fact, mean undoing Reagan. A nation is only as good as its public universities.

Quote:
I'm telling you that you're ignorant, straight up.

I also saw what he did FOR this country, and how it rebounded from Carter's malaise. California is a perpetual train wreck, and no ONE governor can save it. Y'all need far more help to do that, so your claims of Reagan screwing up your state are laughable, at best.

Now that’s not even funny. It only proves that, not only are you ignorant, but you have no grasp of the historical facts whatsoever. You spout the party line and I’ll bet you didn’t know SHIT about what Reagan did in this state. Not that you’ll educate yourself with the above, but it’s there for others who’d like to know the truth.

I won’t even START on the harm Reagan did to the country’s environment, which we are still experiencing today. Anyone remember James Watt and Gorsuch?? That should be “‘Nuff said”, but what Frem said and his quote explain it in more detail.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, June 14, 2011 2:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Oh, BTW... Why does American need more moderate Republicans? We have quite a few of them. They're called Democrats.

FUCK! You really need to warn me before you do that, damn you!

Funny as hell. And sadly, too fucking true.

Reagan would be lynched by the modern GOP.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, June 14, 2011 2:51 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

Kennedy would be lynched by the modern democratic party. People back in the day, 80s and before for our current purposes, were a lot less extreme on both ends.

Frem, I hope you're not angry at me because if you are you're wasting your energy. :)

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, June 14, 2011 3:42 PM

Yes, Niki, I remember what Ronald Ray-Gun, the Robbing Hood who stold from the Poor and Gave to the Rich, did to the California colleges. I went to California State ( then College, now University) at Long Beach in the fall of 1969. First coupla years there, I paid $ 73 a semester for a full time schedule. Parking was like $ 30 a semester more, and books cost less than $ 150 a semester. But RR got elected, and besides cleaning up the mess at Berkeley, he wanted to punish San Francisco State. So he wound up clobbering the entire State College System as well. While I was there, he implemented tuition for new enrollees at the State Colleges, cost almost $ 1500 a semester then. Ran the po' folks out in droves, right into the Army and the jungles of Vietnam. Almost ran me out, but I fell under the old rules, and graduated at the same prices as I entered, nearly. And during the time I was there, there were continuous marches, demonstrations and protests against the Vietnam war, civil rights injustice, and the other issues of the day, including himself. He helped solve those by advocating closing the schools, throwing students in jail, and using more tear gas and guns, while cutting the budget. Which really helped those of us who were there trying to learn more skills, and stuff that would help us lead more productive lives.

Oh,yes, I remember it well...

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, June 14, 2011 3:56 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Boy, you sure do! Neat to run up against someone who remembers Ronnie Ray Guns! Where in CA are you, and how old (if you don'tmind me asking)? Male or female, if I might ask?

I'm sure glad you "snuk through"; I look at it now and turn white, what they've done and are doing to our education system. It was such a great one, we were so proud of it...sigh. I've read that RR went after the universities partly because of an inferiourity complex about his own education; who knows? But I sure couldn't believe the country would elect him PRESIDENT with his record...once again it goes to our liking to elect "handsome", heroic-sounding figures. He was a lousy actor to begin with, and his "acting" as Prez was truly pathetic. Thank gawd he has Ms. JustSayNo to run the country when he went all alzheimerish.

What has always amazed me, too, is that people didn't GET IT when he lost it; it seemed so obvious that he wasn't all there, but nobody said anything...weird.

Okay, I've had my fun (and thank you for the best part of being here today); it's gone hot on me, so I'm hiding here from the heat. But it's getting boring and cooling down, so I'm outta here. Keep the faith!

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, June 14, 2011 4:53 PM

Oh hell no, Riona - see, you have an honest, HUMAN perspective on things which kind of encourages me to actually answer questions from you I'd prolly blow off from anyone else.

Because in the end, that's what it ALL comes down to, humans, interacting with humans - but when folk forget the humanity of the "other guy", and begin to discard their own, disaster isn't far behind, ever.

-Frem
PS. In case anyone hadn't noticed, that's why I consider the Jedi bad actors and think they had it coming.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, June 14, 2011 6:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Yes, Niki, I remember what Ronald Ray-Gun, the Robbing Hood who stold from the Poor and Gave to the Rich, did to the California colleges. I went to California State ( then College, now University) at Long Beach in the fall of 1969. First coupla years there, I paid $ 73 a semester for a full time schedule. Parking was like $ 30 a semester more, and books cost less than $ 150 a semester. But RR got elected, and besides cleaning up the mess at Berkeley, he wanted to punish San Francisco State. So he wound up clobbering the entire State College System as well. While I was there, he implemented tuition for new enrollees at the State Colleges, cost almost $ 1500 a semester then. Ran the po' folks out in droves, right into the Army and the jungles of Vietnam. Almost ran me out, but I fell under the old rules, and graduated at the same prices as I entered, nearly. And during the time I was there, there were continuous marches, demonstrations and protests against the Vietnam war, civil rights injustice, and the other issues of the day, including himself. He helped solve those by advocating closing the schools, throwing students in jail, and using more tear gas and guns, while cutting the budget. Which really helped those of us who were there trying to learn more skills, and stuff that would help us lead more productive lives.

Oh,yes, I remember it well...

And one of my favorite Reagan quotes came from that era, when he said of the anti-war marches and his attempts to crush them, ""If it takes a bloodbath to silence the demonstrators," Reagan said, "let's get it over with."

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, June 14, 2011 8:00 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

Frem I agree that there are good and bad in every lot, we're all just human after all. I'm sure that something will come out of my mouth someday that will make you angry, statistically its bound to happen eventually. Don't get too upset though since you can't do anything about it over the Internet.
If I don't ask questions then how can I learn things? Yes, some of my questions to you are asked in a sarcastic poking fun sort of way, like "Is there anyone on this planet that doesn't piss you off?" but some of them are genuine questions. I guess the example was part sarcasticness and part real curiosity.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, June 15, 2011 5:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Boy, you sure do! Neat to run up against someone who remembers Ronnie Ray Guns! Where in CA are you, and how old (if you don'tmind me asking)? Male or female, if I might ask?

( SNIP some...)

Okay, I've had my fun (and thank you for the best part of being here today); it's gone hot on me, so I'm hiding here from the heat. But it's getting boring and cooling down, so I'm outta here. Keep the faith!

I'm an old guy-- just had my 60th birthday. Born in Santa Monica, CA. Moved to Mendocino County, just up the road from ya, when I was 10 and graduated from High School there, then came back to Long Beach to go to college, met my wife here, got married, had my kids, got a job, it turned into a career...

So yeah, I know about you folks from Marin County-- my homies who invented sensemilla sold it to you "rich hippies" down there.

If it's hot, it must be that Global Warming-- I've seen the pictures you've posted, and while I would never comment on the age of an attractive lady, you're past the "hot flashes" stage.

Ya know I love ya, right? And mostly agree with you, So if I tease, it's to make you smile... glad I succeed once in a while.

Edit: "OMG, Blue text! How the Hell did I do that?. No like! How do I fix it? Duh, can't,... it's Niki's fault!!"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, June 15, 2011 9:29 AM

BYTEMITE

She does run blue, doesn't she.

*Is clobbered for stupid jokes*

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, June 15, 2011 11:15 AM

So the Democrats have been assimilated ?
Now we're all doomed.

*even worse joke*

-F

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, June 15, 2011 1:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

So the Democrats have been assimilated ?
Now we're all doomed.

*even worse joke*

-F

Resistance is futile.

Or, as the GOP puts it, "Resistance is feudal."

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, June 18, 2011 12:56 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Just getting around to responding now; computer finally insisted on seeing the “doc” and just got home. Bank account now wants to see the doc.

Well, hell, yer just a tyke.

Looking back from the wise old age of 62-1/2, I can tell you quite clearly that there are FAR more non-rich Marinites than the other kind; they just keep the stereotype alive, while the rest of us hang on by our fingernails!

Tho' I'm afraid I have to shake my head sadly at anyone who lived in Mendocino County (where in?) ever choosing to spend the rest of their life down THERE!

My husband was VP of Round Table Pizza when we met, and we left to have our own franchise. Our choices were Redding, Long Beach and San Rafael. While San Rafael is a pit, everything around it isn't, and while I wouldn't be caught DEAD among the rural rednecks of Redding, the concept of Long Beach as a permanent residence simply makes me shudder. Talk about UUUU-gly! (As to Redding being Republican, for those of you who think all of Northern California is crazy and liberal, this says it all:

Quote:
Redding was the proposed capital of the State of Jefferson, a failed 1940's-origin secessionist movement which includes rural Northern California and Southern Oregon. The movement was born from economic troubles in the area, in addition to a perceived indifference from leaders in Salem and Sacramento to the needs of rural citizens of their respective states.

Note the term “rural”. There are areas of Northern California that are as right wing as any in Middle America. Mendocino, AND Long Beach, by the way, are pretty liberal. Whatever; I wish you well down there, and pitying you is MY issue, not yours, so just ignore me.

AND if you want to talk “homies”, I spent every minute I could from the age of 20 to 50 in and around Arcata and Prairie Creek because my oldest friend in the world was a park ranger there and her sister still lives in Arcata. So you needn’t tell ME about the dope; I smoked nothing but Humboldt Gold until they made dope medicinally legal...driving up there is more expensive than driving over to my local pot club.

Yes, I am well past that hot-flash bullshit, thank gawd, as well as many other things I do NOT miss! Was pretty hot once, as even a couple of my detractors here admitted, but now just an aging crip, and that heat only lasted one day, we’re back to our usual mid-seventies highs and nighttime fifties. I do love the California climate!

‘Ya know I love ‘ya too, doll, and yes, you definitely give me

Given my reactions to a lot of what else I read here, it is much appreciated!

Lastly, hey, the text isn’t BLUE, it’s LAVENDER...quotes are in blue. Harumph!

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, June 19, 2011 5:07 AM

Yeah, I grew up in Mendocino County. We lived near Ukiah, literally the next hill north of Parducci Winery, if you know the area in detail. SO I'm an old grape stake and grape stomper by nature.
And I knew folks from Arcata and Humbolt County. Almost went to Humbolt State, and my dad once owned a piece of ground just north of Crescent City, right where Highway 101 and 199 split.
I came to Long Beach to go to college. My GrandMother lived here, so I could go without the cost of Housing. And met my wife, got a job, etc. until I'm tied here. Can't say I like, let alone love, the place-- I miss the woods every day, even though it's been over 40 years since I've been home.
And as to blue vs lavendar, I am just a little bit color blind- color insensitive ya might call it, a very high percentage of males are, a WAY higher percentage than women. I did good to get "BLUE", especially since your regular text font uses fine lines against the black background. It is easier to see in the quote in your sig. Not complaining about your font, it's readable , just hard to judge color from.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, June 19, 2011 5:28 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Hmmm, I didn't know my font did that. It's kind of my "signature font", I've used it everywhere I have been on the internet (that it's available). Have to think about that. Don't want to make it difficult for anyone.

And yes, hubby is color blind too, and I know far more men are. Just another weakness of your sex, poor darlings I would die without the ability to discern shadings, color is a biggie with me (you'd never have guessed, would you?). Many bipolars are like me; we LOVE color.

Well, I would hope you'd get a chance to return to the "better" California, but at our age, it's probably not going to happen. Jim and I talk regularly about whether we can go on hanging on here or will have to move...which would be pretty far north to afford anything, or even Oregon. I'll have to be pried away if it comes to that, and I'm praying it doesn't. Got the Bay on one side, ocean on the other, Mt. Tam, HUGE amounts of protected open space, redwoods, the City right there but not in my face...my heart is definitely locked here. Not as wonderful as further North, but I'm not a rural kinda gal, so I'm happy with Marin.

Gawd; Ukiah to Long Beach. Inconceivable. You have my sympathy, Long Beach is just so ugly, and has few redeeming qualities from what I've heard from people who've lived there, that it's hard to think of someone who comes from what I consder the BEST part of No. California stuck there...for 40 YEARS no less! I don't think you could find too many more drastically different places! I was "born 'n bred" in the South Bay, which is nearly as bad now, but that was back when Cupertino was an "unencorporated" part of San Jose...you know, when we still had fruit orchards! Came here with Jim, previously hadn't cared where the hell I lived. Then I discovered Marin. Been here 35 years, hopefully I'll never have to leave.

Hey, at least Long Beach is fairly liberal, from what I hear. We need you guys to counter those rich Republicans splattered all over LaLaLand--out-voting them is TOUGH! Keep up the good fight...

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, June 19, 2011 7:16 AM