Welfare before the welfare state by Hardware

Well, while I am by no means in favor of cutting aid to folk who need it - in fact we don't give ENOUGH, and it winds up with them barely hanging on, never Quiiiiite able to catch up, leaving them running on the treadmill forever and ever, firmly in the control of the system, which is prolly the point...

I *DO* take issue with the Gov getting in the way of anyone ELSE helping those in need, arresting folk for feeding the homeless is the latest outrage which has become common place - feeding the hungry should never, EVER be a crime, it's appalling.

Although, given how "faith based initiatives" served as a funnel to shovel government tax money hand over fist into religion, without ever actually wending it's way down into helping anyone or anything save for their inhumane, bloodthirsty and malicious agendas - I am *NOT* in favor of government aiding "charity" of that form, besides which it corrupts the damn religion too by making them beholden TO a government, when in theory they should be serving a higher power than that.

The worst of it is when someone individually helps someone who happens to be recieving assistance from the government, and the state takes *issue* with that and makes hassle about it - *IF* it ever really was about helping people get back on their feet, they should welcome it, but when the idea is to keep them just barely hanging on, draggin em on a string, the notion of enough to climb out of the hole offends, sure.

Sure as shit, we don't make it easy - I was amazed that in order to find honesty about how hard climbing back out is in the most unlikely place.
http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-things-nobody-tells-you-about-being-poor/
And that's just the BEGINNING, I could quintuple that list without even tryin.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Wednesday, June 22, 2011 7:39 AM

HARDWARE

You know, the quality of articles coming out of cracked.com far exceeds my expectations.

I didn't know these mutual aid societies had ever existed. Amazing how the knowledge of them seems to have been exterminated along with the societies themselves.

It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so, and will follow it by suppressing opposition, subverting all education to seize early the minds of the young, and by killing, locking up, or driving underground all heretics - RAH

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

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Wednesday, June 22, 2011 8:14 AM

Well, the whole "mutual aid"(1) phrase itself is kind of a tipoff that they come out of Kropotkinist Anarchism, but we've pulled a suprising number of Libertarians into the idea as well, not that it has all that much to DO with ideology...

One other interesting thing to note: the practice of barter falls under the jurisdiction of the US Dept of Agriculture, which while it does have assholes with guns (as certain orchid growers learned to their peril)(2) what it DOESN'T have is the authority to levy or collect taxes - especially since barter is generally considered a straight exchange rather than for-profit activity.

Connectivity in the modern era is an edge as well, here's a notion that serves quite well for many locals.
http://www.realtimefarms.com/
Cut out the damn middleman, save the transport and storage costs - tastes a damn sight better, too.

That being one reason I am not terribly concerned about myself, primarily, in the event of infrastructure failure - I know all the damn farmers and happen to be a damn handy fellow to have around, you see - but be damned if I want folks to find out the hard way what'll happen to a city once it loses power, water and sanitation.
*shudder*

Also, waste not, want not - if you haven't sold it and it won't keep, why *NOT* help someone out, you know ?

Although I've recently seen some serious acts of needless, malicious cruelty along the corporate front, on that respect, like stores shredding unsold clothing before they pitch it out, and/or using a locked dumpster - ok, sure, health and safety, but for cryin out loud, shredding it instead of dumping it on a charity for the tax break ?
That's just plain fucking meanness, it is.

-Frem
(1) - http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/anarchist_archives/kropotkin/mutaidcontents
.html
(2) - http://www.theagitator.com/2009/10/05/federal-swat-raid-over-orchids/

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Wednesday, June 22, 2011 10:32 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

My father lived through the Depression and has many stories about how their family took in people from the country who were doing it extra hard, even though they were as poor as church mice themselves. He also tells stories about the kids that ended up in orphanges because there was no one else to look after them, and a dad had lost his job etc etc. It is worth remembering that many, many children who ended up in those horrific places did so, not because their parents were dead, but because of family break up and unemployment. Worse still were the children from homes who were sent to be labourers in other countries. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_children

The 'good old days' were a mixed bag and it is important to distinguish between nostalgia and reality.

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Wednesday, June 22, 2011 11:58 AM

The govt. wants you to need them. They do not want you relying on one another. If you can do that, you don't need them. Of all the reasons why religions succeed, I think this is the main one. It doesn't matter what their sacred text says, when people come together they learn to help one another again. I think it's a human instinct, suppressed for the purposes of control.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Wednesday, June 22, 2011 2:38 PM

Deeper than that, actually, see...
Mutual assistance is human nature - all our lives we get told over and over again how terrible human nature is, how we *NEED* some assholes leash to make us behave, yadda yadda, always, ALWAYS mind you, being offered BY said asshole "for our own good".

Yanno, that's bunk, if human nature really *was* like that, we'd never have managed to build civilization in the first fekkin place - but we've been trained and conditioned to accept this notion without question, sold a bad bill of goods on purpose by folk without our best interests in mind.

What human nature *IS*, is rooted in empathy, which is why our social and educational structures are so hell bent on crushing it out, and despite every effort - never quite manage to do it effectively, it's like paving over a tree root, NATURE ALWAYS WINS, sooner or later.

What it does do, of course, is mess people up pretty bad - I've long held that a substantial cause of aberrant behavior among children is the mixed messages, their own nature tells them to cooperate, share, love, trust, accept...
And our society tells them to exploit, take, hate, exclude, abuse - holds these up as things to be celebrated even while giving snide lip service to how "awful" they are, mainly cause someone got caught at it, we all know that game.

So the collision of messages causes all manner of collision of concept in between their ears and they act out - instead of discovering why, since we KNOW why and won't friggin admit it, we throw labels at it, then "therapy" aka more conditioning, then drugs, and when that fails... the camps - join or die, in it's most fell fashion.
Only... those camps are gettin hard to come by, nature has made succeeding generations resistant to the drugs, the conditioning - cause as a survival skill in a longterm sense, sociopathy sucks, which is *why* we are hardwired for cooperation.

And despite how horrible it can look from an immediate perspective, again - NATURE ALWAYS WINS.

For a deeper understanding of this concept, RSAs pictogram lecture is essential, if a bit long.

And if you need more convincing...

Born for Love: Why Empathy Is Essential--and Endangered
http://www.amazon.com/Born-Love-Empathy-Essential-Endangered/dp/006165
6798/
Note that the authors are Doc Bruce Perry, and Maia Szalavitz, one of the foremost researchers on this kinda thing, and one of the most instrumental folk in crushing the hellcamps, respectively - folk who know of what they speak.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Wednesday, June 22, 2011 7:44 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

I agree with Frem that cutting social services isn't a good idea. I do also agree with the fact that we need to help each other and do for each other. It would be nice if the government made it easier for people to get on their feet and start succeding more affectively instead of the welfare flaws I hear about where people sort of get stuck because the system is a bit whacky.

Frem, when I was a little girl, five and under, I was not interested in cooperating, empathy, or helping others. The only people I was willing to help were little ones who were notably smaller than I, but anyone my own age or older, forget it, it was my way or the highway. I learnt how to behave by watching those around me and being guided. Then once I hit about age six or seven it started making sense, I realized that compromise was the only way to get anywhere and I'd get what I wanted a lot easier if I was nicer. Of course as I grew older things only got better and I reckon myself to be a decent sort. But my early childhood "nature" wasn't to be a sweet person, it took people showing me what they expected and experiences in order for me to internalize it.

I think that human nature is a mix of both the bad things and the good things, every person seems to have a little of both, but some have more of one than others. But I believe that both things are there within us. I feel it is utterly naive to deny the one and unfair and inaccurate to deny the other, not necessarily in that order.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, June 23, 2011 1:50 AM

Well, everyone is different, some folk develop attachment later than others - and that can come from many factors.

What rooks me, is when folks get lack of attachment confused with Sociopathy though - it's hard to explain, but there's a very large difference between not having that mutual desire to belong, not liking other people, and Sociopathy, folks with attachment issues often strive in fact harder to do right than others, treasure the humanity they have all the greater, because they have so little of it, you see ?

The folks I work for, both directly and indirectly, some of em have this mild misperception that I'm kinda evil - since I am nocturnal, uncommunicative, antisocial and almost ghostly quiet in motion, without realizing that a lot of it is intense focus on the job at hand and being discrete so as not to alarm or disturb people - and there's also that because the cold, quiet darkness is my natural environment, I have a huge edge on the crooks and skells, for while they may be using the darkness for cover (thus the term "cover of darkness") they're still not adapted, comfortable or fully effective there.

Not all flowers that bloom in the night are wicked things.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Thursday, June 23, 2011 11:01 AM

Beir bua agus beannacht

I agree with you about attachment challenges vs. sociopathy, that they aren't the same thing, evidenced by a friend of mine. I think you've totally hit the nail on the head there.

I like darkness, it is the great equalizer, everyone's equal in the dark.

I made up this movie idea with my cousins where the land of the light are the badguys and the people of the dark are the good guys, but you don't find out until later in the movie. The people on this planet live either on the side of the planet where it is light all the time or on the side where it is dark all the time.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Friday, June 24, 2011 2:29 PM

Speakin of that hateful malice the current regime in power tends to direct at the poor, this is an excellent piece on the topic.

The Banishment of Agape
http://distributistreview.com/mag/2011/06/the-banishment-of-agape/

Quote:
Across our nation a war is brewing against charity. New state and local regulations discourage volunteer groups from street feeding the homeless and destitute, making food sharing prohibitive and outreach difficult for unincorporated associations, churches, and charitable organizations. Local ordinances mandate daily permits ranging from $125-$175, food certification and dry goods licensing, the training and hiring of food managers, storage and serving requirements, and portable bathrooms and sinks. Fines for violations are up to $2,000. Legislation dampening the efforts of citizens who are selflessly providing aid for the homeless and poor on the streets is passing in cities all over the United States. Miami, Atlanta, Cleveland, Orlando, Las Vegas, and Nashville—all have jumped on the bandwagon.

More and more I am seeing acts of just plain MEAN-ness, for lack of a better word, such as I mentioned above, shredding unsold clothing into useless rags instead of foisting it off on charity for a tax break, stuff that doesn't even make financial sense - which qualifies IMHO as a malicious and inhuman act for the sheer sake of spite.

I can point to a historical parallel of that behavior, too - Marie Antoinette.
And look what happened to her.

Guess I better increase the stock of pitchforks and torches, eh ?

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Monday, June 27, 2011 12:40 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

That pisses me the rut off, that's the all of it. A pile of rutting luh suh. I think people should just find ways to dodge the government rules on those things and use loopholes. Sounds like our government wants to boss us around like China and you know what I think about China's government. I guess it shouldn't be surprised though since our government is in bed with China.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Monday, June 27, 2011 11:33 PM

So you're interested in a bulk purchase, then ?

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Tuesday, June 28, 2011 1:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

I can point to a historical parallel of that behavior, too - Marie Antoinette.
And look what happened to her.

Source?

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Tuesday, June 28, 2011 6:19 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Just to play devil's advocate, I think a middle ground exists today. A lot of people took in those who lost their homes in Katrina, remember. A number of groups got together to save the pets, as well, on their own. I think this kind of thing still exists; yes, the government gets in the way sometimes, and it's stupid. But it does still exist, and how can we know about all the people who helped others quietly, without the media picking up on it?

I don't think it's an either/or situation; I think the government does what it can, with agendas in some cases, just plain poorly in others, but in many cases people pick up the slack and also help.

In case anyone forgot, by the way, remember that YOU all sent ME to the Gulf to do volunteer work (for which I will be eternally grateful, by the way--now when I hear New Orleans mentioned on TV, I remember what it's like and better understand what's being said). That was organized partly by the government and partly by small groups, with the work done by volunteers who paid our own way down there to do it. All working together, and we made an impact--as did the myriad other non-government groups who help out in virtually every emergency.

I don't see the government as the Big Bad. I see it as imperfect, driven sometimes by ideology in the wrong direction, but for me it's not black and white. I think both sources are valuable, people/groups working on their own, and the government at leat TRYING to do what it's supposed to.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Tuesday, June 28, 2011 8:35 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

I too think that there needs to be help available from private agencies/groups as well as the government. Options are good. The thing I was angry about last night was the regulations the government has restricting private groups from helping, making you have to get permits for every little thing etc. Sure there are certain things that permits could be used for, but does everything under the sun have to have an associated permit that you're fined for if you don't have? That's what bothers me. Looking back at my post from last night I can't figure out how China figured into this particular scenario, maybe it was the idea that China's government has way too many regulations? Anyways the more help and options there are the merrier. And the more people who are managing well in life are encouraged to help the merrier.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, June 28, 2011 10:27 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

My experience exactly, Niki. Just because some government services exist, doesn't mean that no one does anything. Some of the best services of all are run by volunteers here, including the Country Fire Authority and the State Emergency Services, which mix both. Some government funding to co-ordinate and train, and volunteers which do all the amazing work of fighting fires and mopping up disasters.

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Wednesday, June 29, 2011 4:03 AM

Being a former Quartermaster, I have a keen understanding of just how much a force multiplier proper organisation can be - in fact that's as ever been MORE useful than the ability to stomp, scare, or intimidate, for a fact.

What'd be most useful, would be a specific organisation to cross-coordinate those efforts and reduce redundancy, waste and collisions of intent - and even run in the wasteful, slapdash and corrupt manner of our Government, we'd STILL save dollars for every penny spent on it, so long as Corporate involvement can be prevented, something which would be problematic at best cause they'd want in on it at first for PR reasons, and then eventually bend it into an enforcement arm of their will.

Which is why despite it being a good idea, the longterm implications make it a counterproductive one unless you address the matter of Corporate influence prior to that, alas.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Wednesday, June 29, 2011 5:48 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Riona, there I definitely agree. Stories of how regulations stood in the way of perfectly valid things abound. THOSE are the kind of regulations we should be looking at, rather than regulations on corporate interests who just don't want to spend the money to make things safe(r). You'll get no argument from me on that point, which I believe was addressed in the initial article.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Wednesday, June 29, 2011 12:23 PM

The proper way to deal with redundancy is by creating the Department of Redundancy Department.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Wednesday, June 29, 2011 12:41 PM

BYTEMITE

It's a tautology.

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Wednesday, June 29, 2011 2:02 PM