Is this World War Three? by dreamtrove

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Is it? Jury's still out on that one, isn't it?

There's widespread REAL violence throughout the Mid-East, parts of Northern Africa, and Asia - but is that widespread enough to qualify as a "world" war?

Most of the conflicts seem to have been set into motion around the ends of the previous world wars - the divvying up of land after WWI and the further partitioning after WWII, both of which set friends against each other in stupid nationalistic and religious conflicts. Some of these were squelched via tyranny and brute force, but rather than defuse the situation, they only caused it to smolder and fester all the more, until they exploded given the first opportunity. See Bosnia, Iraq, and Afghanistan for classic examples, and Egypt, Libya, Syria, and Yemen for even more recent ones.

I don't think we're in a world war, yet. China as yet is only minimally involved, and so far only in a financial capacity. To watch a REAL world war erupt, wait until India and Pakistan go at each other again, and China decides to flex its muscles.

Russia seems to be fairly quiet at the moment. Perhaps TOO quiet. Makes me wonder what they're up to. Chances are, it won't bode well for us.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Thursday, June 30, 2011 3:45 PM

HKCAVALIER

Naw. It's just the U.S.A. having a midlife crisis coinciding with the human race continuing to transition into a type 1 civilization. So we go police-action happy and every dictatorship on the planet is finding that its lack of control over the flow of information across its borders has reached a critical mass. The dictatorships are all dying out. And no, they ain't going gentle into that good night.

Of course, that creates a tremendous opportunity for opportunistic militarists in the West who cannot wait to claim victory for "our side." I think your notion of a "third world war" actually plays into their hands, frames what's happening--spontaneously, locally--in a way that grants them extraordinary powers over a world wide situation where they are, in truth, only bystanders. If there's anything America hates, it's sitting on the sidelines when the game is getting hot.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Thursday, June 30, 2011 8:03 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

The major players are DreamTrove, Quicko, AURaptor, Signe and Frem of course. I'm siding with Genghis on this one, just to be safe. :))
:)P

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, June 30, 2011 11:33 PM

PEACEKEEPER

Keeping order in every verse

Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Naw. It's just the U.S.A. having a midlife crisis coinciding with the human race continuing to transition into a type 1 civilization. So we go police-action happy and every dictatorship on the planet is finding that its lack of control over the flow of information across its borders has reached a critical mass. The dictatorships are all dying out. And no, they ain't going gentle into that good night.

Of course, that creates a tremendous opportunity for opportunistic militarists in the West who cannot wait to claim victory for "our side." I think your notion of a "third world war" actually plays into their hands, frames what's happening--spontaneously, locally--in a way that grants them extraordinary powers over a world wide situation where they are, in truth, only bystanders. If there's anything America hates, it's sitting on the sidelines when the game is getting hot.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

Well I'm sure the Americans won't sit on the sidelines for too long. You've got to make up for being late in the last two wars by being bang on time for this one.(Minor, tongue in cheek snark mode adopted)

Peacekeeper---keeping order in every verse!!!

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Friday, July 1, 2011 2:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
The major players are DreamTrove, Quicko, AURaptor, Signe and Frem of course. I'm siding with Genghis on this one, just to be safe. :))
:)P

Okay, that was funny. DT and I aren't at war, though - just having a bit of a row about some details of historical events. It happens from time to time.

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Friday, July 1, 2011 2:10 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by peacekeeper:
Well I'm sure the Americans won't sit on the sidelines for too long. You've got to make up for being late in the last two wars by being bang on time for this one.(Minor, tongue in cheek snark mode adopted)

Peacekeeper---keeping order in every verse!!!

It only stings because it's true... :)

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Friday, July 1, 2011 3:42 AM

lol. Yes, we already have a head start.

Me and mike are like the US and UK, I suspect mike is the US, as he has the guns and muscle cars, and I have ginseng tea. Frem is Russia, the ally we suspect will turn on us once but we stick with him because he's so good at it.

I suppose Rap would be Japan here the one that Mike feels needs attacking but I feel is a possible ally, but at least a distraction from the real menace: an anti-semitic madman bent on total dommination.

Oh, sorry, I didn't mean anyone here

Reviewing my position, on the plus side I don't surrender, and I get a kick ass navy. On the downside, I might end up losing my empire.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Friday, July 1, 2011 6:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Naw. It's just the U.S.A. having a midlife crisis coinciding with the human race continuing to transition into a type 1 civilization.

Man, and you on occasion call ME an optimist?
If I had to pin it down, I'd be handing Earth a negative number on the Kardashev scale, myself.

And here's something else - I don't actually BELIEVE in "War" - it's a fantasy, a fiction.

You see, technically I qualify as a Conscientious Objector(1), and not by way of pacifism, but rather that I object rather strongly to capping people I have no personal quarrel with at an hourly rate, you want em dead, you pay by the head, anything less is unprofessional.

But it's also not that simple - see, my perspective on it is thus: some leader has a problem with something some other leader is doing, *MY* attitude about it is "Okay, you don't like it, you think he needs killin, you go do that, here's a rifle." - fucked if they have any right to order ordinary folk who may or may not care, who have no vested interest, and don't even KNOW those people, to go slaughter a bunch of OTHER ordinary folk which THAT leader set in opposition.
I mean, why the hell are ANY of them even listening to these dicks, much less takin their orders ?
IT MAKES NO SENSE.

This crosses over slightly in a religious fashion, as I believe the act of killing someone should be a last resort, only done when either no alternative remains, or not doing so will very likely enable or contribute to more harm than not - and it should be both immensely personal, but completely dispassionate in the doing.
Unless money is involved, at which point it should be done in a professional manner, also without emotional involvement.

For me, it isn't the act of killing itself which is morally reprehensible, but rather in part the act of emotional investment or involvement, whether it's nationalism, racism, religious intolerance or fear of punishment for not doing so. (aka "just following orders")
And the other part which makes it even more reprehensible it when it is neither personal, NOR professional, cause at that point you have NO RATIONAL REASON to do it.

Not sure if that is gonna come across, but while certainly no pacifist, the mere notion of "War" strikes me as repulsive, folks who have no quarrel and don't even know each other slaughtering one another just cause some asshole in a fancy uniform told them to ?
Down that path lies madness.

-Frem
(1) - Yes, that *does* in fact qualify as CO status, further explaination of exactly how that'd work in principle and practice will have to wait, however.

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Friday, July 1, 2011 8:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
lol. Yes, we already have a head start.

Me and mike are like the US and UK, I suspect mike is the UK, as he has the guns and muscle cars, and I have ginseng tea. Frem is Russia, the ally we suspect will turn on us once but we stick with him because he's so good at it.

I suppose Rap would be Japan here the one that Mike feels needs attacking but I feel is a possible ally, but at least a distraction from the real menace: an anti-semitic madman bent on total dommination.

Oh, sorry, I didn't mean anyone here

Reviewing my position, on the plus side I don't surrender, and I get a kick ass navy. On the downside, I might end up losing my empire.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

Only quibble I have with that is the part about the UK having the guns and muscle cars. Or about ME having muscle cars. ;)

I'm not sure Frem could be counted on to "turn on" anyone, either, especially since he's made it abundantly clear exactly what his goals and intentions are, so it could hardly be called "turning on" us. :) Frem's that warrior whom you turn loose on your enemies, and when he comes back in the night and slips the blade into your solar plexus, you just kind of have to shrug and think, "Well, I couldn't really call it unexpected... or unfair..."

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Friday, July 1, 2011 10:28 AM

HKCAVALIER

Hey Frem,

Good gravy, when did I last call you an optimist? Glad to hear you thinking in those terms! Hard to imagine me criticizing you for being overly optimistic. Anarchism without optimism is a sorry, hateful, childish thing indeed. You've not been reading terribly optimistic though, lately, that's for sure. All this Maltheism and "some things cannot be forgiven" et al. has had me all kind of...concerned...for you, my friend.

I've long been pretty aggressively optimistic, but lately I've even become optimistic about science and technology. Weird, I know.

It all started when I began writing this SF novel last November. I've been doing a ton of research on technology and futurism and that tends to dovetail well with a lot of past history, intellectual history, historical trends as well and I've gotten an oddly positive picture of the long view of our human endeavor. Sure, we're heading into some troubled waters, a lot of folk are drowning as it is, but I don't see that it's gonna last, not really. In another 50 years, most of this shit won't even be relevant.

The emergent world culture seems an inevitable development of the Age of Information. Dictatorships are indeed dying. How can they possibly sustain themselves without being able to control information? Social Liberalism will follow, and follow everywhere. Women everywhere will achieve the education they desire, being gay will be just another way to be human, religious fundamentalism will become more and more marginalized with every passing decade, etc. What's gonna stop any of it? Sure, the bad actors will bitch and moan and commit horrendous and vicious crimes, but isn't the fact that the writing is on the wall the thing most strongly motivating them to go ballistic in the first place? The fundies may be going out with a bang, but they are assuredly going out.

Y'know, there have been some pretty nasty characters on the planet with Nuclear capability for half a century now and beside the single obvious and shameful exception, no one has launched a nuke at another country in earnest. That to me is astonishingly hopeful.

I see signs of world culture developing all over the place, every day, don't you? What serious impediment do you see to its eventuality? Screw one world government! When the world shares a single inclusive, polyglot culture, the nation state will be a dead issue. Quarrels between nations will be no more relevant than the Super Bowl.

As to pacifism, didn't Mohamed Ali say as much when he was objecting conscientiously? I don't think it's all that eccentric, actually. It's the commonest of sense to me. How can you ask me to kill a man I don't know and have no personal beef with? You may find yourself utterly surrounded by foolish, pampered Liberals who say all kinds of goofy stuff they have no idea if they truly believe because they've never been tested, but real adults know violence cannot simply be denied out of existence.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Friday, July 1, 2011 12:57 PM

mike

Oh fuck

Sorry, fixed that there for ya. You are the US, I am the UK. You have gone on a fair amount abiut guns and muscle cars in more detail than I can actually follow.

"just bear in mind that if we ever *do* defeat the fuckers, I'm as likely to turn on yiu as not if it suits my purposes" - Frem

So, I was snarking, but I thought it was pretty solid, and you wouldn't want to be disagreeing with something solely on the ground that it was I who posted it, now, would you ?

I just meant more sort of roles, otherwise, not sure, Sig is more the socialist, and can't think of an anarchist, Chiang Kai Shek was fairly chaotic.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Friday, July 1, 2011 1:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
mike

Oh fuck

Sorry, fixed that there for ya. You are the US, I am the UK. You have gone on a fair amount abiut guns and muscle cars in more detail than I can actually follow.

Well, yeah - I *know* muscle cars, but that's just from growing up in that era and being a "car guy" in general. I was never a huge fan of them, though, although I like some of the "pony cars", like the '67-'68 Mustang and the '69 Firebird.

Quote:

So, I was snarking, but I thought it was pretty solid, and you wouldn't want to be disagreeing with something solely on the ground that it was I who posted it, now, would you ?

No, but I'm not going to automatically AGREE with someone based solely on who they are, either.

Quote:

I just meant more sort of roles, otherwise, not sure, Sig is more the socialist, and can't think of an anarchist, Chiang Kai Shek was fairly chaotic.

As a completely unrelated aside, I went to school with Chiang's grandson when I lived in Taiwan. It was kindergarten, 1966. Apparently we fought, or so I'm told (I don't remember it) - my sis said I beat him up. Just think - I may have set U.S.-Taiwan relations back a decade or more!

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Friday, July 1, 2011 2:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Good gravy, when did I last call you an optimist?

Not all that long ago, old friend - which amused me greatly since you can actually see that through the rage and hostility focused on those who wanna burn the books, subjugate the women and drag us back to the caves...
Not to mention the damn fools who forgive and forgive and forgive, and thus enable them at every bloody turn and corner - it's like that friend who comes whining to you cause he's broke, cause he loaned money (which you know damn well he ain't never gettin back) to his cousin, who spent it on drugs again, and then starts pressuring YOU for some cash, and has the damn nerve to get upset when you refuse to feed the cycle of stupid, you know ?
I mean, really, what part of STOP ENABLING IT do people not get ?
Which of course, as a non-stop, every-damn-day-all-damn-day thing, would make anyone perhaps a bit bad tempered.

I concur that "the writing is on the wall", and while from our tiny little in-the-moment perspective it looks pretty ugly, the fuckheads of the world are prettymuch doomed - in fact I think they know it, cause all this recent intensification of effort strikes me as a last ditch grab for what they can get before it all goes to hell on em... something I really hope I am around to watch, if not help along.
My impatience comes from the notion that like the angry little children they resemble, they might well blow us all up out of spite or at least do so much damage that recovering will be a long process indeed - what I desperately fear is that one act of forgive-and-forget that lets em near the means to do it, when people should KNOW BETTER - a falling tyrant is apt to do just about any bloody thing, right ?

Ah.. *THAT* is the word I've been looking for - Perfidy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfidy
The flat-out "bad faith" of our current political cycle, in that the INSTANT they're let off the hook, the knife slams into our back, and yet nobody ever seems to learn from this, no matter how phony their contrition, no matter how pathetic their excuses, they just keep letting it slide - it practically defines the word.

While I do believe technology and communication will be a substantial factor in our advancement, I don't think it'd work without the necessary empathy to actually care beyond ones self, which is essentially WHY I've for all my life taken to smashing the structures and social setups geared towards crushing it out in order to stunt our development and maintain a status quo which benefits those currently in power - of course, globally it's not so much of a problem as it is here, but I *live* here, mores the pity.
One thing that struck me about Larssons books, was that even those opposed to each other for the most part interacted in a far more humane way than americans do, something I was already somewhat familar with via personal contact with folk overseas, especially for lack of a better word "nordic" countries, Iceland, Finland, Sweden, etc - they're by far not even CLOSE to as hostile to each other as we are, and as you know I have my suspicions and theories as to why, which the work of Perry and others seem to prove out.

Anyhow, in order to make maximum use of those technological advantages, particularly communication, there has to be empathy - simply spewing bile and intolerant nationalistic hatred at people ain't communication, it's a form of verbal abuse, really - nor is there any inclination to actually understand or accept other people, other ways of life, something about our closed mindedness which always rooked me from even my own childhood, like theres this one-right-way and anything else needs to be smashed, bah, humbug!
I didn't buy it then, and I sure don't buy it now - the idea that ones ideology cannot exist in concert with others is IMHO, an admission that it has failed completely, cause the only REASON for that is the belief that if there's any other option people will flock to it, and enforcing a failure with violence strikes me as just plain mean it does...
That's a discussion I've had with a couple Pashtun quite recently, as there's parts of their culture I don't find very palatable, and the reverse is just as true, and so I told em, hey, if that's how YOU wanna live, you go right on ahead - just do not expect or demand me to!
Which is where my *issue* with most other folk comes from, cause they do - and when you don't live how they would like you to, they bring all forms of hostile force, social, legal, at times even physical, against you.
THAT comes from lack of empathy - cause it's what tolerance is rooted in.

It's also a humans natural state, given the sheer amount of intensive effort it takes to mangle it with even partial success - so all one really has to do is weaken the chains pinning it down...
Although it's also a double-edged sword, cause empathy leads to forgiveness, which in the case of a sociopath, or sociopathic entity, is not only wasted effort, but directly and immediately enables further and worse abuses.
There really isn't an answer for that, beyond not creating such monsters in the first place, which dovetails exactly with the rest of what I do.

In the end though, NATURE ALWAYS WINS - and if we really were ravening beasts who needed to be forced by a government to behave ourselves, how the hell did we build civilization in the first place, eh ?
It's not just potential that we'll reach that point - it is INEVITABLE, provided the dickheads of the world don't render this place uninhabitable out of spite before we do.

Oh, and Re: the supposed CBD issue?
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChronicBackstabbingDisorder
The second example on the page, for example - Milliardo Peacecraft.
It wasn't a matter of him betraying his employers - so much as his employers betraying HIS principles.
You do that, act in complete contravention to something someone believes in with all their heart, how can you NOT expect them to turn on you ?
To his credit, Trieze not only realized it, he sent out assassins to kill Milliardo BEFORE he took that path, although he didn't really expect them to succeed either.

That's also why in fiction, and often enough in reality - people that helped overthrow a regime or whatnot came back around and wound up fighting the very folk they helped loft into power to begin with, not because of any psychological need to be contrary (which too damn many people seem to think this is!) but because THAT ruler then went and betrayed the very principles of those who put them there - an act of, as I said above, Perfidy.
Attempting to throw the "betrayal" card at those who *DIDN'T* violate their principles is an act of projection and diversion - nothing more.

Ergo, if don't want my knife in your back - don't ally with me and then piss on everything I hold dear.
Again, a simple concept - only that's not so easy when one thinks in terms of black and white, and thinks the ends justify the means... and the other thinks in shades of grey, and thinks the means matter more than the ends.
Which is as close as I can explain it, I think.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Saturday, July 2, 2011 3:55 AM

Mike

Lol. You probably pushed him on a path to not slaughter thhe peasants, he was perceived as weak, and en conquered by China.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Wednesday, July 6, 2011 8:17 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

Frem I enjoyed and laughed at "If ya want 'em dead, you gotta pay by the head", that was the funniest saying I heard all day, like Jayne.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Wednesday, July 6, 2011 9:23 PM

I actually got my own laugh out of it relevant to something DT said elsewhere, cause the little afterthought on it, which I suspect he had that comment in mind when he added.

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Absolutely. We don't call hitmen a legitimate free market enterprise. (Okay, most of us don't)

Seriously though, MORAL value of a life aside, if you're going to pay money to make someone dead, bulk rate cheapens it so much in both ways - it may sound kind of grim to assign a price to such things, but I think that making it too cheap, convenient and easy actually encourages killing, you see ?

You put a price on it, make someone pay individually for the death of a named, specific individual, they can't weasel out of their own responsibility for it, they MUST face the fact of what they are doing and answer to themselves for it, as well as whether or not it's actually "worth" both that and the payment in order to have them dead.
Nor can the person carrying it out deny responsibility for their part in it either.

C. J. Cherryh's Foreigner series has a quite interesting take on that concept in a larger social sense, via the Atevi Assassins Guild - I think you'd like the series, actually.

-Frem
PS. Worth noting that I used it as a primer for my initial difficulties communicating here with folk who don't think so sideways.

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Thursday, July 7, 2011 5:11 AM

PEACEKEEPER

Keeping order in every verse

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
I actually got my own laugh out of it relevant to something DT said elsewhere, cause the little afterthought on it, which I suspect he had that comment in mind when he added.
Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Absolutely. We don't call hitmen a legitimate free market enterprise. (Okay, most of us don't)

Seriously though, MORAL value of a life aside, if you're going to pay money to make someone dead, bulk rate cheapens it so much in both ways - it may sound kind of grim to assign a price to such things, but I think that making it too cheap, convenient and easy actually encourages killing, you see ?

You put a price on it, make someone pay individually for the death of a named, specific individual, they can't weasel out of their own responsibility for it, they MUST face the fact of what they are doing and answer to themselves for it, as well as whether or not it's actually "worth" both that and the payment in order to have them dead.
Nor can the person carrying it out deny responsibility for their part in it either.

C. J. Cherryh's Foreigner series has a quite interesting take on that concept in a larger social sense, via the Atevi Assassins Guild - I think you'd like the series, actually.

-Frem
PS. Worth noting that I used it as a primer for my initial difficulties communicating here with folk who don't think so sideways.

Ahh, but the assassins Guild must work with FINESSE!!!But don't worry Frem, the tea is safe.!!!!

Peacekeeper---keeping order in every verse!!!

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Thursday, July 7, 2011 5:14 AM

BYTEMITE

Hey Frem, did you ever hear Riona's story about how the Irish and blood money? Actually sounds kinda similar to what you're describing here and in a strange way it kinda works.

Ask her about it.

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Thursday, July 7, 2011 6:34 AM

Indeed I did, Byte - which struck me as a quite similar theme, and is part of why I mentioned this, cause I felt it would be understood in concept.

One must remember also that the primal roots of my own belief system come from the same place as that which spawned the Thugee and the Hashishin, although some time prior to that it point it when in a wholly different direction - but the idea of it having to be a personal transaction did remain, because the act is so terribly senseless otherwise, and at the time the folk threshing things out were trying to make sense of a world which was so much larger, contained so much more, than they ever imagined.

And yes, Peacekeeper-Ji, finesse is very important, certainly it saves wear on the furnishings.

Ironically I understand Man'chi a hell of a lot better than most human interaction, meh.
Oh, and some Atevi-related humor for you, which left me in hysterics.
http://shejidan.tripod.com/foreigner/discussion-children-tv.html

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Thursday, July 7, 2011 7:53 AM

PEACEKEEPER

Keeping order in every verse

Haha. Indeed, could you imagine the Atevi equivalent of "Ten Green Bottles".

Ten green Bottles sitting on the wall
But if one green bottle were to accidentally fall
There would be a fortunate number of green bottles remaining!!!!

Peacekeeper---keeping order in every verse!!!

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Thursday, July 7, 2011 10:15 AM

Beir bua agus beannacht

Yup, it was that way with other peoples of the northern European persuasion too, if you killed someone you needed to pay the manprice or else the family of the slain would just come take it from you, at least I figure they would come and take it if you didn't pay. Ireland had a very complex legal system with lawyers and judges etc. so the sentence could be enforced more officially but I don't know about the other folk who used this method. In Ireland if you slandered someone or besmirched their name you would have to pay an honor price, this like a man price depended on the social rank of the person etc. So in Old Eire if you wanted to break the law you had to count up your assets and see if you could afford it first.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Friday, July 8, 2011 5:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
I actually got my own laugh out of it

Was waiting for that, wondering when...

Oh, I ain't back btw, or at least, I ain't gonna bite on any more little squiggle bugs that have a hook in 'em.

Learned my lesson on that one

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Friday, July 8, 2011 11:14 PM

Oh, and regarding the Foreigner series...

Bianichi, despite having an oddball and more human-compatible sense of humor than his peers, was *NOT* kidding about the notion that he really should get Bren-Ji licensed with the Assassins Guild.

In fact, much of Brens conduct in that respect seems to leave Bianichi somewhere between amused and enraged, for good reason.

Select to view spoiler:

It was Bren who shot Tamun, non-fatally (although I presume Bianichi or Jago took credit to avoid unpleasant questions there), AND Bren later also managed to shoot the usuper, I forget his name, quite, quite dead, thus resolving most of the Man'chi problems in a rather final fashion...
(And due to circumstances everyone KNOWS he did)
On top of this, it's also Bren who body-tackles the Aiji in order to protect him from an assassination attempt shortly thereafer.

So yeah, Bianichi isn't kidding whatever, in addition to being more than a bit annoyed at the required presumption on behalf of the Padhi-Aiji.

Heaven knows I'd be, were I his bodyguard.

"YOU do not guard US, Bren-ji" - Jago
-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Monday, July 11, 2011 6:49 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

Frem, is that a manga series? If so I'm going to have to pass. But I did put Un Lun Dun on my list of books to read. The process I go by is complex so it will be more than two years until I get to it, the list is quite long, but its on there as you suggested, even though sentient milk cartons sound tiresome, I'll try it, it looks like a neat book.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, July 12, 2011 1:39 AM