REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

For Geezer

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Thursday, September 1, 2011 04:13
SHORT URL:
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Monday, August 29, 2011 5:54 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


And I'm going to try very hard not to respond to what I'm sure will come from you on this:
Quote:

Working-class anger bubbled over at a town hall hosted by Rep. Charlie Bass Saturday, when dozens of organized activists berated the Republican congressman for not helping the job market in his home state.

"During the ’90s we could afford to hire members of the community, but now we're barely able to pay ourselves," said Greg Goldberg, a furniture store manager who wore an Obama 2012 cap. "How much longer are we going to be able to do even that if companies continue to get tax breaks while continuing to send our jobs overseas?"

Many in the audience - including an organized group that traveled by van to the event - tried to turn the meeting into a rowdy debate as they scoffed at Bass' answers and applauded each other's hostile questions.

Bass stood at the podium with his sleeves rolled up and two bottles of water at hand, scribbling down questions on a sheet of paper as he called on even the most defiant questioners.

"To what degree did working-class Americans contribute to this crisis?" asked Tess George, a Democrat who said "Wall Street greed" and spending on foreign wars were to blame for the debt crisis.

Bass responded that Democrats should share the blame for the struggling economy, saying the president had several years to create jobs. He told the audience the Obama administration's stimulus initiative helped prove that spending would not pull the country out of its economic slump.

"We've got to create an environment in which businesses want and can employ people to do real jobs," Bass said. "And my ideas for that - I know you won't like, but they're the only hope, in my opinion that we have at this point - and that is to lower our corporate tax rate so it's competitive –"

He was cut off by shouts and groans in the audience. Bass then added Congress would work to make the tax code "simpler and fairer" in the fall.

Some of the outspoken opposition said they were members of the American Dream movement, a progressive group that advocates for middle-class workers.

At times, Bass would listen to a speaker's question and then say he had already answered with his thoughts. When one questioner became heated, Bass said: "Fair enough, that's your view, not mine."

He also pointed out that with 5.2% unemployment, New Hampshire is better off than many other states.

At one point a man asked Bass about his thoughts on General Electric, which pays little to no federal taxes and has become the target of liberal ire.

"In answer to your question, I don't believe that companies are people," Bass replied, drawing applause from the audience.

On the campaign trail, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney has attracted notice by saying "corporations are people too" in defense of low tax rates for businesses.

Not to be outdone, some conservatives in the audience attacked Bass for signing onto the deal to raise the debt ceiling.

One man called Bass' vote on the debt deal "gutless" because it didn't cut enough spending.

After an hour of questions, Bass thanked the group and said the back-and-forth gave him "renewed vigor and optimism" about the electorate.

"I welcome you to come and I appreciate the fact that you're here," he said. http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/08/27/organized-opposition-d
ominates-bass-town-hall/#more-172625

I think Bass had balls to face them in the first place and did a marvelous job of dealing with it. Very, very classy. Yes, I abhor that a group deliberately caused trouble. No, I do not see it as a "plot", it was one town hall meeting and not a widespread effort. And apparently it wasn't disruptive enough that nobody else got to talk or ask questions. I LOVED the bit about corporations!

Bass gets a huge from me.

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Monday, August 29, 2011 6:05 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I hope it's okay to comment, since I'm not Geezer.

I enjoyed reading about a politician responding to a hostile audience to the best of his ability. He may not have won them over, but he did the right thing in answering their concerns- even if they didn't like the responses. That he didn't arbitrarily shut people down, ignore them, or run away says a lot.

And if you don't mind me saying so, I have some respect for Geezer. He holds opinions on this board that are frequently unpopular, but even if you find his opinions and responses unsatisfactory, he usually keeps from getting nasty. I wish folks like Wulf and Rap were more like him. I think we'd have better conversations.

--Anthony


_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Monday, August 29, 2011 6:18 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


It's directed at Geezer specifically only because we've been "debating" (or at least I've been attempting to) some Republicans having pay-per-view events, and also because he asked if I would think it was un-American if Democrats did it. Here is an example I'm offering and yes, I certainly think it's wrong to put people into a town hall just to disrupt it. But of course anyone's welcome to comment.

I agree with all the things you said about Bass, I really think that was very classy.

Anthony, I never mind you saying ANYTHING, and I agree Geezer isn't as bad as our worst. I'm having some difficulty at present because I'd come to respect him, but lately his responses have seemed like things we WOULD get out of Rap and Wulf, coupled with some nastiness. It's disappointing, that's all.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Monday, August 29, 2011 12:55 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Good for Bass, if he disagrees with something he should explain why he thinks that way, take all questions etc. So good for him.

Yeah Geezer usually seems pretty nice. I suppose everyone has bad days though, even the more civil posters, everyone's human after all. I try to be nice while still expressing my viewpoints, but sometimes it comes out more meanly than I intended. And sometimes it comes out meanly because I intended, we all have crappy days sometimes, today seems to be one for me.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Monday, August 29, 2011 1:18 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Suggesting to Geezer that U.S. military bases are legitimate targets for our enemies to attack tends to bring the worst out in him, though.


Meanwhile, props to this guy for facing the crowd.

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Monday, August 29, 2011 1:39 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
And I'm going to try very hard not to respond to what I'm sure will come from you on this.



Niki.

I agree that it's good to see Congresspersons handling dissent at town halls in a controlled manner. I'd wish that the disruptive elements of both parties would cool it and allow constructive dialog.

My whole problem with the Politico article that started our debate/discussion is that it was nowhere near as evenhanded as this article, or the NY Times or Washington Post articles I cited on Congresspersons of both parties either reducing their town hall meetings due to harrassment, or finding that they can't use them as effective sounding boards for their constituents due to the disruptive tactics of a few folks from both parties.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Monday, August 29, 2011 1:39 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I have issues with his answers, b/c frankly, he lied a few times. 'Bravely' facing a hostile audience with propaganda is not an honorable thing. And I fault the audience for not calling him on them.


Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in taxpayer funded bailouts, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in bonuses, and paid no taxes?

Yeah, me neither....

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Monday, August 29, 2011 1:40 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Suggesting to Geezer that U.S. military bases are legitimate targets for our enemies to attack tends to bring the worst out in him, though.



Mike, your trollskin is showing.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Monday, August 29, 2011 1:52 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Suggesting to Geezer that U.S. military bases are legitimate targets for our enemies to attack tends to bring the worst out in him, though.



Mike, your trollskin is showing.

"Keep the Shiny side up"




Awwww, looks like I touched a nerve. Or a troll.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Monday, August 29, 2011 1:54 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Suggesting to Geezer that U.S. military bases are legitimate targets for our enemies to attack tends to bring the worst out in him, though.



Mike, your trollskin is showing.

"Keep the Shiny side up"




Awwww, looks like I touched a nerve. Or a troll.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill



Hello,

You baited him and he responded.

Is this behavior mysterious?

--Anthony



_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Monday, August 29, 2011 2:00 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Not mysterious at all; quite predictable, in fact. For all his vitriol towards me and posting about leaving in a snit, he still can't help but dance when I play a tune.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Monday, August 29, 2011 4:15 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Not mysterious at all; quite predictable, in fact. For all his vitriol towards me and posting about leaving in a snit, he still can't help but dance when I play a tune.



So you're pretty much admitting you're a troll. Such a surprise.

You want to actually discuss stuff in a thread, I'll do so.

You want to be a troll in a thread, I'll call you one and ignore you.

In this thread, you're a troll. Bye.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Monday, August 29, 2011 4:27 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Not mysterious at all; quite predictable, in fact. For all his vitriol towards me and posting about leaving in a snit, he still can't help but dance when I play a tune.



So you're pretty much admitting you're a troll. Such a surprise.

You want to actually discuss stuff in a thread, I'll do so.

You want to be a troll in a thread, I'll call you one and ignore you.

In this thread, you're a troll. Bye.

"Keep the Shiny side up"




Yeah, troll, I guess you missed the part where I specifically replied to this thread. I notice you edited it out in your "Reply with Quote" response, which shows that you had no intention of discussing this issue, which you have yet to discuss in this thread AT ALL.

So I've responded on topic, and you haven't. Back under your bridge, troll.

BTW, you suck at ignoring. Perhaps you don't know what the word means?

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Monday, August 29, 2011 4:58 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


CLOMP, CLOMP, CLOMP! This is me walking, loudly, across a very wide bridge that you both can fit under. I don't have any goats for you to eat though because they all fainted.
:)

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, August 30, 2011 7:00 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I'm with Riona. Mike, you do behave like a troll at times. You DID bait him, and beyond that, you come in often with snarks that bait people, just like Raptor. I hate the idea that you seem to so often stoop to their level, I really like you and you post some really good points, many of which I agree with, but you lose my respect when you do your "troll" shit. Geezer's response to a thread directed at him was more civil than I expected, but before he even posted any response, you came in what a Raptor-like irrelevancy that, exactly like Raptor, diverted the thread to a nasty back and forth. And I'll bloody well call you on it when it happens. Over time, you have eroded any high ground you stood on, so tho' I'll agree with you when you're right, I abhor that you behave like Raptor.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Tuesday, August 30, 2011 7:04 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

I have issues with his answers, b/c frankly, he lied a few times. 'Bravely' facing a hostile audience with propaganda is not an honorable thing. And I fault the audience for not calling him on them.
Kiki, I agree. To me it IS brave of him to hold a town hall and face what he knew would be angry constituents, but I, too, was disappointed that nobody called him on the lies; that's an important part of town halls, in my opinion. Someone should have come back at him with facts and see how he responded; they all propagandize at town halls, and it's a shame they aren't called out every damned time. I don't think we have town halls around here; if we did, I'd go prepared with facts and see what happened. Would be interesting, if nothing else.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Tuesday, August 30, 2011 7:05 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Geezer, you didn't--to the best of my recollection--state that it was only that the article wasn't even handed in the other thread (if we're talking about the Republican's "pay-per-view" argument); if you did, you went FAR beyond that. You again and again insisted on a point which I had proven wrong and mischaracterized what I and others said into more dramatic (and often wrong) terms; that's what frustrated me. If you'd merely said that you thought both parties engaged in the same tactics from time to time and you simply didn't like the slant of the article, we'd have had little or no argument. But you didn't, and to say that was your "whole argument" now is disingenuous.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Tuesday, August 30, 2011 7:45 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


My point when I "baited" Geezer (your claim, not mine) was that I *don't* have much respect for him, despite what others may claim, because when it comes down to it and his views are challenged, he acts exactly like Rappy and so many others: he starts with the name-calling ("You're a sick fuck, Mike" and the like) and then runs away.

Sorry, but I don't find such behavior respectable. Niki, you say you'll call me on it, and that's fine; go for it. But don't forget to call Geezer on his trollishness as well, because he puts it on display quite regularly.

Geezer's got an agenda just like everyone else here, and he's as partisan as the worst of us. He decries it when anyone points out the hypocrisy of "Republicans", claiming we're smearing ALL Republicans when doing so, but look at his posts and how often he smears "liberals" en masse.

If pointing out such behavior makes me the bad guy, then that's a cross I'll gladly bear. I'm pretty sure I've never claimed any high ground, moral or otherwise, but I'm also sure I'll never cede said high ground to someone I view as just another in a long line of partisan hacks.




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Tuesday, August 30, 2011 4:36 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


I suppose we all have our Norse mythology moments. :), some just do it more than others, but even people who do it more than others can be nice folk at other times.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, August 30, 2011 4:42 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

Perhaps I've merely been fortunate to miss whatever egregious behavior has so embittered you, Mike.

I've never seen anything from him that would elevate him to the verbal atrocities that Raptor has committed.

And it seems to me you regularly poke at him in order to incite an outburst, when the alternative seems so much better for everyone.

You may not aspire to the moral high-ground, but it makes me much more comfortable when you stay within easy climbing distance.

--Anthony




_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Tuesday, August 30, 2011 4:48 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
[BGeezer, you didn't--to the best of my recollection--state that it was only that the article wasn't even handed in the other thread (if we're talking about the Republican's "pay-per-view" argument); if you did, you went FAR beyond that.



Looking at the thread, my first response was pretty much "So they're holding fund-raisers. Big whoops." that some Republican Congressmen were allowing folks who sponsored meetings with food to charge the price of the food. My second was that the Politico article was "...spinning so hard it could power all of Rep. Ryan's district." The thread's available if you want to read it.

You and SignyM were the ones crying "Where's the free town hall meetings?". And when I noted that Pres. Obama is charging a lot more than the cost of the food for meeting the public, you both got all huffy.

After that, I agree that we all escalated.

If you can really read the original Politico article and tell me that you don't think it's got a Liberal spin, then I have to stand by my statement that you've drunk the Liberal kool-aid and there's no point in even trying to have a discussion with you.

I consider this a loss, because you sometimes seem to be able to see both sides of an issue.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Tuesday, August 30, 2011 4:57 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Tax breaks ? It's the tax INCREASES and ridiculous over regulation in the first place that are sending jobs over seas.

The inability of the Left to comprehend basic economics and the free market can't be this bad. No way. There must be an overt attempt to sound stupid and lie about what's going on here, by the Left, to try to sway people's opinions.

It's the only logical conclusion. The Left has no real ideas, nothing but more of the same train wreck that's keeping us from recovery, and they don't want folks to wake up and see the light.

Hopefully, astro-turffed stunts like these will only hasten Barry's exit from the White House, and remove enough socialist loving Dem scum from power.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, August 30, 2011 6:05 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Tax breaks ? It's the tax INCREASES and ridiculous over regulation in the first place that are sending jobs over seas.

The inability of the Left to comprehend basic economics and the free market can't be this bad. No way. There must be an overt attempt to sound stupid and lie about what's going on here, by the Left, to try to sway people's opinions.

It's the only logical conclusion. The Left has no real ideas, nothing but more of the same train wreck that's keeping us from recovery, and they don't want folks to wake up and see the light.

Hopefully, astro-turffed stunts like these will only hasten Barry's exit from the White House, and remove enough socialist loving Dem scum from power.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "



Hello,

I'm not sure exactly what you're responding to, but if you have something worthwhile to say, you can probably dispense with the conspiracy theories and 'socialist loving Dem scum' phrases.

You need to make peace with the fact that Democrats and Republicans have different opinions about how to handle financial matters. They have different priorities about where to invest money. It does not make the opposing group inherently evil.

You have never shown the capacity to understand that someone can share a different fiscal philosophy without being a monster.

--Anthony




_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Tuesday, August 30, 2011 7:18 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"Tax breaks ? It's the tax INCREASES ..."

Which haven't existed since the early years of Bush the Deux. Unless of course Rap is talking about IMAGINARY tax increases, in which case, they could be anytime!


"... and ridiculous over regulation ...that are sending jobs over seas."

YEAH! Like to GERMANY! And SWEDEN! DAMN! those shifty diabolical Swedes!


"There must be an overt attempt to sound stupid and lie about what's going on here .."

Yes, there is.


"... socialist loving Dem scum ..."

And now we have the real argument straight from the horse's ... ass.

It does my heart good to see Rappy frantic and totally unhinged. It's nice to know that there is some justice in the world.




Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in taxpayer funded bailouts, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in bonuses, and paid no taxes?

Yeah, me neither....

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Wednesday, August 31, 2011 2:00 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Tax breaks ? It's the tax INCREASES and ridiculous over regulation in the first place that are sending jobs over seas.



What tax increases are you talking about? Be specific.

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Wednesday, August 31, 2011 5:30 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Geezer, in my opinion you are mischaracterizing what happened. Your first response was to liken the pay-per-view town halls to fund raisers, and put them up against an Obama fundraiser. It was pointed out that the meetings in question were not fundraisers, as claimed by the spokesmen themselves, and that here is no comparison between the two.

Your explanation of the second response wasn't quite all you said. Your remark about the spin was the very last remark; prior to that was
Quote:

Nowhere does the article state they don't hold town hall meetings at all. In fact, per the article, Rep Ryan will "... host telephone town hall meetings but no free events in person during the recess, spokesman Kevin Seifert said. Seifert said Ryan is also “holding business tours and office hours throughout the recess.”, so folks apparently have access to him.

Also, the concept that a person interested in confronting their representative would be dissuaded by a $15.00 charge for a chicken dinner seems a bit unbelievable.

We debated that "telephone town halls" were the same as public, in-person town halls, and explained that in this economy, poorer people (those most upset about the Republican policies) would have a hard time getting to see their representative.

You went on to AGAIN compare Obama's fundraisers to the pay-per-view town halls (which the spokesmen themselves claimed were for lunch), claim the article was bogus (which isn't true--slanted it is, but the FACTS are corect), that it's only during this recess he's holding pay-per-view events and telephone and office hours (which everyone understood already), and again claim "if folks who want to confront him during this recess aren't willing to go to his office or pay 15 bucks for some rubber chicken and an argument, then they don't seem be that concerned."

After that you continued to repeat those same arguments over and over and over, despite several of us refuting your points over and over. Then you went off the deep end with "At 3:00 a.m.? When they're meeting with other people about other interests? When they're attending the funeral of a serviceman from their district?" and "Should you be able to monopolize their time with your issues, to the exclusion of everyone else?" and "If your representative is doing nothing but holding OPEN PUBLIC MEETINGS to allow you to "be able to see Members of Congress without restriction...", then when do they get any work done on specific issues for specific constituencies - say retirees, parents, veterans, etc." and "because he or she has to hold all meetings as town halls" and "When that turns out to be someone with a 50 page speech about how dogs should be required to wear pants, what about the folks who want to discuss the details of jobs or Social security?" None of that had ANYTHING to do with the issue we were debating and was over-dramatized examples which portrayed things nobody had said.

You went on with
Quote:

They were so "Un-American" as Nancy Pelosi branded them. Interesting how, in your view, if Democrats are hassled it's an un-American plot, but if Republicans are hassled it's free speech. Double standard, perhaps?
and
Quote:

I gotta admit, rebranding fundraisers as 'pay-per-view' when Republicans hold them is pretty spinny.
Quote:

Wow. Quote an article that's pretty much a plagarized version of the Politico article....
Quote:

The Politico article is a political hatchet job; something for all the liberal outlets to pick up, change a word here or there, and push out to the faithful. It takes the fact that some Republicans aren't holding in-person town hall meetings during four weeks of the August recess and trys to turn it into a massive conpiracy to silence opinion or dissent. And the faithful ovrlook it's obvious bias in writing and sources and just lap it up.
Quote:

If you spin much faster, you're gonna distort local gravity
You had begun the snarking, completely ignoring that the spokesperson had claimed they weren't fundraisers and falsely accusing me of saying it was an "unAmerican plot".

I agreed both that Dems had probably done the same, and that if they'd known what they were in for, the Dems might have done similar things during the health care recess, and if they had, I'd have decried the practice by them.

Then YOU started getting nasty with
Quote:

Anyone with PN's brain perhaps. Business groups and civic associations have been asking congresspersons (Democrat and Republican) to speak for a century or more, but, to you, if it's Republicans, its suddenly a conspiracy. .... Any you're being paranoid.

And of course you believe the drivel from the liberal feel-good sites, but completely ignore the NY Times article about Democrats doing the same, or worse.

Hope you enjoy the Kool-aid.

So your account of the thread is less than honest, and I don't recall "escalating" myself (I cannot speak for others and am not about to go through the entire long thread). What I did was get frustrated that you kept dodging the very first, original points from that moment on, discounting the facts because you disapproved of the sources, continuing to repeat the same arguments which had been refuted and adding unpleasant snarks.

That's where I stopped re-reading. I gave you quotes and cites at length, called you on your over-dramatizations and countered your points; you continued claiming the same things over and over, with additional irrelevant points (such as being able to contact one's representatives, which had nothing to do with public town halls, and on and on).

A couple of times I called you on posting much the way Raptor does, not addressing the points, not refuting the facts, twisting things and attempting to distract the debate from the issue at hand. I never, to my knowledge, got personally nasty, but I may be wrong about that. The frustration certainly escalated, so maybe I did, but I try not to. I try to counter with facts and figures as much as I can.

So that's how it actually went, and I followed up by putting up a thread with an example of a Republican who DID have town halls and acquitted himself beautifully when faced with opposition. You're portraying the original thread as something different than it was. I've pointed out the specifics and shown how the original "discussion" REALLY went. I'm not dealing with it further.

In response to your current "If you can really read the original Politico article and tell me that you don't think it's got a Liberal spin, then I have to stand by my statement that you've drunk the Liberal kool-aid and there's no point in even trying to have a discussion with you", spin or not, that doesn't change the FACTS, and that's what I was debating.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Wednesday, August 31, 2011 5:42 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Mike, I'm forced to agree with you. For a long time I respected Geezer, but his behavior recently has more and more resembled Raptor's irrelevancy, obfuscation and dissembling, with nasty snarks to boot. I guess I give up; I actually wish he WOULD run away from discussions such as the one in question, it would have been far less frustrating and time consuming than attempting to have an honest debate with him. I'll try to remember that in future.

I never said you'd claimed any high ground, I know you don't. What bothers me is your constant snarking, rather than addressing the issue at hand, something Raptor is famous for and I hate to see you mimicking. It bothers me that you frequently come into a thread with an immediate put down, which distracts the conversation onto personal back and forth and wastes the thread sometimes. That's all. As you can see, I HAVE called Geezer on his claims of what happened; I'd decry it in anyone.

The pertinent point being you're more right than wrong. He has been behaving more like "Raptor lite". As long as he does, he's not worth much more time than refuting his points and moving on.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Thursday, September 1, 2011 4:13 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Geezer, in my opinion you are mischaracterizing what happened.



I feel the same way. I read what I said, and consider the genesis of most of it to be my opinion that the Politico story was a hatchet job. Perhaps you know what I'm thinking better than I do, but I doubt it. Maybe we should just write this off as a waste to go further.

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